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Old 8th June 2019, 06:21 PM   #161
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A dive bomber with a rear gunner position. Not seen that belly air scoop on another plane however.
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Old 8th June 2019, 08:37 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Anyone know what this one is?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qdfa43hro...0.28.jpg?raw=1


I caught a glimpse of this on a History Channel programme about the Battle of Britain. I don't recall seeing anything looking like this in that battle.
Fairey Fulmar???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey..._underside.jpg
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Old 8th June 2019, 09:39 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Yep, that looks like it.

Turns out its a Royal Navy aircraft so I would have thought it unlikely that it would have been involved in the Battle of Britain, but I just did a little research and found that 808 Sqn got Fairey Fulmars when it was formed in July 1940. It was one of only two Fleet Air Arm squadrons to take part in the Battle of Britain (the other being 804 Sqn) although neither ran into any German aircraft.
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Old 8th June 2019, 10:46 PM   #164
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it looks a bit like a Fairey Barracuda with the very long glazed top, and what looks like too long for two people only.
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Old 8th June 2019, 10:54 PM   #165
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Fairey Battle. Tons of stuff online about this one.
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Old 8th June 2019, 10:59 PM   #166
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Barracuda has a totally different tail configuration, Battle lacks the prominent scoop.
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:11 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Barracuda has a totally different tail configuration, Battle lacks the prominent scoop.
Agreed. The Fulmar had a spinner, the Battle did not. The Fulmar also had a shorter engine than the Battle (it was a later, smaller variant of the Battle design).
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:53 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Barracuda has a totally different tail configuration, Battle lacks the prominent scoop.
Also, the Barracuda has a mid-wing configuration; my screenshot shows an aircraft that is clearly low-wing.
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:50 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
A prototype 36 motor, 5 seat air taxi:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48297440
Mmm ... I don't get the idea of that number of motors, except if it's to use some cheap standard motor. All else alike, the more motors you need to get a given power, the less efficient it will be.

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Old 9th June 2019, 02:59 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Agreed. The Fulmar had a spinner, the Battle did not. The Fulmar also had a shorter engine than the Battle (it was a later, smaller variant of the Battle design).
Looks a lot like a fulmar, but be aware that History Channel is not the most reliable source there is. It could easily be a clip from somewhere else, and even a post-war replica or reconstruction.

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Old 9th June 2019, 03:09 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Looks a lot like a fulmar, but be aware that History Channel is not the most reliable source there is. It could easily be a clip from somewhere else, and even a post-war replica or reconstruction.

Hans
My initial thought was possibly a modified Me108 Taifun. But the tail is wrong and the radiator as well. And it is bigger and narrower than the Me108, which is a side-by-side 4-seater.
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Old 9th June 2019, 04:23 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
I don't get the idea of that number of motors, except if it's to use some cheap standard motor. All else alike, the more motors you need to get a given power, the less efficient it will be.
Is that phenomenon more related to how the fans interact with air, or to something about the power sources? The picture seems to show electric fans which could all be powered by one or two power sources.

Anyway, the purpose appears to be so you can distribute the engines along lines or curves, where the fan diameter establishes a minimum width in one dimension but not two, instead of being stuck with one or two big things with hard minimum widths in two dimensions. I came up with a similar idea once when trying to imagine how a very slim flat airplane (a smaller new stealth bomber) might be built. The next new bomber was thought by outsiders to be likely to use the same engine as F-35 minus afterburner, just two of them instead of one, but that's a low-bypass engine and it would be nifty for a bomber that's subsonic anyway to have higher bypass, so I thought of each engine having two or three drive fans side by side instead of one of any size, which could pull the same amount of air through as a single high-bypass engine but not need to be so tall...
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Old 9th June 2019, 04:36 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
How about the De Haviland Hornet, an 'improved' single seat fighter version of the Mosquito, used by the Fleet Air Arm but just too late for WW2 and made quickly obsolete by jet aircraft.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Hornet
Winkle Brown's very favourite aeroplane.

I'm trying to recall the name of the 1920s Russian aeroplane that had its skin made of transparent acetate to make it "stealthy".

ETA: Eureka! The Kozlov PS: a Yak AIR-4 skinned with a transparent celluloid with opaque parts painted with silvery white paint. At least one actually flew and worked a charm... until the transparent fabric yellowed in the sun and lost its transparency when it got dirty.

Last edited by TX50; 9th June 2019 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 9th June 2019, 04:48 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
I'll add a favorite of my own: The PO2

Built in vast numbers, but little known in the West.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polikarpov_Po-2

Hans
You can pretend to fly one of those in the Ilyushin-2 Sturmovik game.
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Old 9th June 2019, 05:30 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Looks a lot like a fulmar, but be aware that History Channel is not the most reliable source there is. It could easily be a clip from somewhere else, and even a post-war replica or reconstruction.

Hans

I agree, this is why I asked here.

History Channel often uses stock footage along with their narration. I have seen them use the exact same footage in two different programmes about two different aspects of WWII. One was talking about the German Army Group A breaking through the Ardennes in May 1940, and the other was a programme about the Battle of the Bulge, which also involved the Ardennes, but that was around Christmas/New Year of 1944/45.

The dead giveaway was that footage showed what were clearly Tiger tanks, which means it could not have been from 1940 since the Tiger didn't enter service until 1942. In 1940 in the Ardennes, German Army Group A would have been using Panzers.
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Old 9th June 2019, 05:50 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
The Avro Arrow

Just a shade under MACH 2 in level flight and one of the first fly by wire systems before it was cancelled in 1958. Probably one of the first modern looking planes, most of it's supersonic contemporaries were basically missiles with stubby wings.

https://vmcdn.ca/f/files/sudbury/ima...ized.jpg;w=630

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ow_rollout.jpg
Whether or not one finds the stated reasoning given at the time for the abrupt cancellation of the Arrow suspicious (which many do), the simultaneous nixing of the (equally advanced) Orenda Iroquois engine intended for it just doesn't make any sense at all - France was expressing unequivocal interest in using them for the next generation Mirage, which alone could have been an order for several hundred.
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Old 9th June 2019, 05:58 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I agree, this is why I asked here.

History Channel often uses stock footage along with their narration....[snip] .
Yes, I can't count how many times I've seen Focke-Wulf 190s (the same one every time, in fact) being shot down in the "Battle of Britain" or Churchill tanks "abandoned on the beach" at "Dunkirk".
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Old 9th June 2019, 06:08 AM   #178
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I give you the Martin Baker MB5 - the greatest piston engine fighter of the jet age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin-Baker_MB_5
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Old 9th June 2019, 06:30 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I give you the Martin Baker MB5 - the greatest piston engine fighter of the jet age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin-Baker_MB_5
Looks like a North American P-51
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Old 9th June 2019, 07:05 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by TX50 View Post
Looks like a North American P-51
Except for the forward fuselage, wings, and tail sure. I suppose they both have a canopy and an under fuselage radiator so much be exactly the same.
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Old 9th June 2019, 07:19 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
Except for the forward fuselage, wings, and tail sure. I suppose they both have a canopy and an under fuselage radiator so much be exactly the same.
It actually resembles the Australian CAC CA-15 more closely.
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Old 9th June 2019, 08:49 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
it looks a bit like a Fairey Barracuda with the very long glazed top, and what looks like too long for two people only.
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Fairey Battle. Tons of stuff online about this one.
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Barracuda has a totally different tail configuration, Battle lacks the prominent scoop.

Ah well, Fairy obviously had a fairly obvious design signature.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Also, the Barracuda has a mid-wing configuration; my screenshot shows an aircraft that is clearly low-wing.
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Old 9th June 2019, 08:54 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I give you the Martin Baker MB5 - the greatest piston engine fighter of the jet age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin-Baker_MB_5
Originally Posted by TX50 View Post
Looks like a North American P-51
Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
It actually resembles the Australian CAC CA-15 more closely.
Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
Except for the forward fuselage, wings, and tail sure. I suppose they both have a canopy and an under fuselage radiator so much be exactly the same.

And the contra-rotating front props
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Old 9th June 2019, 09:45 AM   #184
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A more recent also-ran few have heard of; The Dassault Mirage 4000. Big brother to the Mirage 2000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_4000
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Old 9th June 2019, 10:10 AM   #185
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Nevermind, responded to something from a previous page.
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Old 9th June 2019, 10:35 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
A more recent also-ran few have heard of; The Dassault Mirage 4000. Big brother to the Mirage 2000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_4000
Never heard of it.
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Old 9th June 2019, 10:55 AM   #187
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OK, here is one. While it says "Danish Experimental" on this one, the general type was built in several places. The idea was the common man's aircraft. A single seater with an engine of about 30hp, it was not aimed for the higher parts of the sky. It was meant to be easy to fly, having only three controls:

- Rudder
- The angle of the main wing
- Throttle

They could fly, but as already the Brothers Wright found out, you really cannot do without ailerons: There are simply too many situations you cannot get yourself out of, and indeed several of these things crashed. Now they sit in museums here and there.

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Old 9th June 2019, 12:30 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
Except for the forward fuselage, wings, and tail sure. I suppose they both have a canopy and an under fuselage radiator so much be exactly the same.
You people on here can be such snarky buggers sometimes. Where did I even imply that it "must be exactly the same"? Anyway, the wing form is in fact identical to the lightweight experimental XP-51 designs, as is the tail. The belly mounted radiator is crucial to the MB-5's high performance because of its substantial drag reduction effect. The principle was first reported in 1935 by a British engineer called F.W. Meredith but was misunderstood and ignored by contemporary British aeronautical engineers until North American implemented it in the "Mustang". Even the shape of the MB-5's bypass gutter is identical to the P-51's. I wonder where Martin-Baker got that idea?
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Old 9th June 2019, 01:16 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by TX50 View Post
Looks like a North American P-51
Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
Except for the forward fuselage, wings, and tail sure. I suppose they both have a canopy and an under fuselage radiator so much be exactly the same.
And I don't recall any model of P-51 with contra-rotating props!
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Old 9th June 2019, 01:46 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And I don't recall any model of P-51 with contra-rotating props!
You have only to ask. This is the Red Baron Mustang. A modified P-51D with the Rolls Royce Griffon and contra-rotating props.
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Old 9th June 2019, 01:50 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
You have only to ask. This is the Red Baron Mustang. A modified P-51D with the Rolls Royce Griffon and contra-rotating props.
Not a production model though. I mean, this is a heavily modified AC in private ownership. It never fought in WW2 or Korea.
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:02 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Not a production model though. I mean, this is a heavily modified AC in private ownership. It never fought in WW2 or Korea.
Mm, no. Is that somehow a requirement for mention here?

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Old 9th June 2019, 02:03 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Mm, no. Is that somehow a requirement for mention here?

Hans

Look at the comment I answered, and what I answered with

"And I don't recall any model of P-51 with contra-rotating props!"

The word model has a specific meaning in aircraft parlance. Its the designation for the general design of the aircraft. Pope130's example is not a model of the P51, it a heavily modified one-off.


There is no model of P51 with contra rotating props.
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:25 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
And the contra-rotating front props
Quite a few had contra rotating props, some of the spitfires, Sea Fureys, Tempests and several others that escape me at the moment.
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Old 9th June 2019, 05:46 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Never heard of it.
Well, job done then
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Old 9th June 2019, 05:49 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Mm, no. Is that somehow a requirement for mention here?

Hans

Please see my post above.
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Old 9th June 2019, 07:42 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
You have only to ask. This is the Red Baron Mustang. A modified P-51D with the Rolls Royce Griffon and contra-rotating props.
A bit off-topic, but that has reminded me:
A former, very senior to me and now deceased, co-worker once owned not one but two P-51 Mustangs. One to fly, and one mostly for parts. As you can see from that photo, it's kind of hard to see exactly where you are going from tail-draggers with large props.
One day he accidentally shredded someone's modern turbine helicopter, to the point of it being a write-off. That cost him his mustangs, his house, and pretty much everything else. Brilliant guy, regardless.
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Old 9th June 2019, 11:56 PM   #198
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Quite a few had contra rotating props, some of the spitfires, Sea Fureys, Tempests and several others that escape me at the moment.
The one I always think of is the Fairey Gannet, which always seems unfair to the elegant seabird.
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Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 10th June 2019, 02:00 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The one I always think of is the Fairey Gannet, which always seems unfair to the elegant seabird.
Don't forget the Shackleton, some of those had contra rotating props but like the Gannet they are turboprop, not piston engines.
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Old 10th June 2019, 03:26 PM   #200
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Convair Sea Dart at the old SST museum

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
This one I did not know of. It's a Hydrofoil!
For a time there was a Sea Dart at the now defunct Boeing SST museum in Kissimmee, FL. One now resides in Lakeland, FL, but I am beginning to think that the one i in Lakeland is a different aircraft but the same model. There is an air museum in Kissimmee, and it is said by some to have a Sea Dart, but the one I remembered from my visit to the SST museum and from some photos I saw on-line was light-colored. One of the remaining aircraft may have been repainted at some point, and there appears to be some confusion surrounding its correct number. See also these links and here.
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