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Old 12th May 2019, 08:31 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I asume he was either drunk or drugged - he should have just said he was pissed when he posted, was seeking help with his drinking, and because he was pissed failed to realise the racist connotations and would be immediately attending more diversity training. I would then send Alexei Sayle to have a fat bastard to fat bastard conversation with him.
Being drunk is an excuse for being a racist clod? Why?
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Old 12th May 2019, 08:34 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
What exactly is the non-racist interpretation of this?
Good question.
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Old 12th May 2019, 08:41 PM   #123
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It's funny how many people around the world are just obsessed with the British royals. Other countries have vestigial monarchies too, but not many people seem to care much about them. The British royals, though. It's hard to escape news about them, even in other countries. There seems to be a lot of vicious gossip, too. Supposedly there's a "feud" between Kate and Meghan. Who knows why. I suspect it's just the fiction of gossip rags doing what they do to sell their tabloids and drive traffic to their websites. Nothing more. But it isn't just limited to those traditionally gossipy tabloids anymore. It has creeped into more traditional news media, probably because they have discovered that readers have a big appetite for this sort of "news". So it's a bit hard to totally avoid it.
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Old 12th May 2019, 09:43 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
What exactly is the non-racist interpretation of this?
The one Baker gave. There was no racism, intended or otherwise.
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Old 12th May 2019, 11:49 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Gawd some people need a life.
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:24 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Wait a minute - Princess Markle is black????
... and not even a princess???

I wonder if they were thinking of Musical Youth when determining her title, First of Her Name?
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:58 AM   #127
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In case people were wondering about the use of chimps/monkeys when referring to kids in the UK, there's currently and advert for More Than insurance. It's a kids party in the garden with bouncy castles and music etc. Then the power goes off, and they replace all the kids with those wind up monkey toys with the cymbals, and food chucked everywhere.

That's sort of humour Baker was getting at. A kid's a kid. Posh ones are just dressed nicer.

Of course, that doesn't let him off being rather dim on this front...but it's Baker, and he doesn't always think before he opens his gob. He'll get another gig without too much fuss.
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Old 13th May 2019, 01:04 AM   #128
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I don't think Baker is a racist, I think he posted what he thought was a funny picture without thinking and the speed with which he removed it seems to agree with that. I think it's a bit much to sack him for this although he has a track record so he might have been on thin ice already. I think what Sugar did is worse, I think what Farage does is worse, I think there are plenty other worse people that the BBC give a platform to regularly.

I mean at the end of the day it's not like he did something really awful like dress up in a Nazi uniform to attend a fancy dress party.
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Old 13th May 2019, 04:36 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
I don't think Baker is a racist, I think he posted what he thought was a funny picture without thinking and the speed with which he removed it seems to agree with that. I think it's a bit much to sack him for this although he has a track record so he might have been on thin ice already. I think what Sugar did is worse, I think what Farage does is worse, I think there are plenty other worse people that the BBC give a platform to regularly.

I mean at the end of the day it's not like he did something really awful like dress up in a Nazi uniform to attend a fancy dress party.
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Old 13th May 2019, 05:03 AM   #130
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I realise it's posisble to fix more than one issue at a time, but

"Only one black British student was admitted to Corpus Christi College, Oxford in 2015, 2016 and 2017 collectively."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...quiry-20-years

If I were to choose one of the Baker thing or the above to ocupy the newpapers for this length of time, let's have the proper issue of racism within UK society, not a witch hunt based on a celebrity failing to think like a racist before publishing. (I don't want to have to ape a racist in my thinking before saying or writing stuff. I don't want to have to edit for 'what the worst way this could be perceived if I really twist my brain to be a total Farage' before writing. How much language do we want to concede to only be used by racists and twitter twits?)

This is what comes of journalism though twitter searches.
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Old 13th May 2019, 05:08 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
I don't think Baker is a racist, I think he posted what he thought was a funny picture without thinking and the speed with which he removed it seems to agree with that. I think it's a bit much to sack him for this although he has a track record so he might have been on thin ice already. I think what Sugar did is worse, I think what Farage does is worse, I think there are plenty other worse people that the BBC give a platform to regularly.

I mean at the end of the day it's not like he did something really awful like dress up in a Nazi uniform to attend a fancy dress party.
Tend to agree with this

But as I said earlier, kind of deserves to be ditched for being so incredibly dumb.

The Harry Nazi uniform is a good point, but then he got crap for that as well
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Old 13th May 2019, 06:22 AM   #132
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When you're making silly jokes about royalty, it might not even cross your mind that people could interpret what you're doing as punching down instead of up.
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Old 13th May 2019, 06:33 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Tend to agree with this



But as I said earlier, kind of deserves to be ditched for being so incredibly dumb.



The Harry Nazi uniform is a good point, but then he got crap for that as well
Did he get sacked?
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Old 13th May 2019, 06:44 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Three sources I never read. I was vaguely aware that there had been some grumblings about online abuse, but assumed it was just the usual stuff royals and/or their girl/boyfriends seem to attract. I paid as much attention to it as would it if had been some footballer complaining about people trolling their WAG, i.e. very little.

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Old 13th May 2019, 09:26 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
That chimps and monkeys are often used as a caricature of human beings?

I have friends who call their (white) daughter "Monkey". They started it when she was a baby. Now she is six years old, but it has stuck with her. Are we being racist when we call her "Monkey".


Come to think of it, I don't know the child's name. I only ever refer to her as "Monkey".


I think the non-racist version of the comment is that he had forgotten that Meghan Markle was, by some definitions, black. Therefore, it didn't occur to him that he was referring to a black child as a chimp. He just thought he was referring to a child as a chimp, just as my friends do.
Who calls a child a monkey before they start moving and climbing though? That is just weird, and racism makes more sense than this weird calling a newborn a monkey, I mean come on they need to be able to hold their head up before they start climbing on things.
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Old 13th May 2019, 09:30 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Who calls a child a monkey before they start moving and climbing though? That is just weird, and racism makes more sense than this weird calling a newborn a monkey, I mean come on they need to be able to hold their head up before they start climbing on things.
Racism makes no sense whatsoever, given Baker's past lack of any such indicators.
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Old 13th May 2019, 09:50 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Racism makes no sense whatsoever, given Baker's past lack of any such indicators.
Is that really a good argument? I didn't know about Mel Gibson's predilections until I did, long after he'd been incredibly famous.
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Old 13th May 2019, 09:54 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Who calls a child a monkey before they start moving and climbing though?
Many people. Don't know about where you are, but, as I suggested earlier, it's a pretty common term of endearment here.
Quote:
That is just weird, and racism makes more sense than this weird calling a newborn a monkey, I mean come on they need to be able to hold their head up before they start climbing on things.
Racism doesn't make sense in the case of this particular presenter, who has had a significant media presence for decades, does live phone-in shows, does many interactive live appearances and tweets prolifically. If there was any racism, it would have surfaced long before now.
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Old 13th May 2019, 09:59 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Is that really a good argument? I didn't know about Mel Gibson's predilections until I did, long after he'd been incredibly famous.
Mel Gibsonís words were pretty unequivocal though.
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Old 13th May 2019, 10:05 AM   #140
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Totally shocked that there is a scandal about racism and the royal family which doesn't involve Prince Phillip.
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Old 13th May 2019, 11:21 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Racism makes no sense whatsoever, given Baker's past lack of any such indicators.
And how much did Roseanne's work give that indication? Her first series seemed to be pretty anti racist and such. People change and people lose their filters.
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Old 13th May 2019, 11:24 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Many people. Don't know about where you are, but, as I suggested earlier, it's a pretty common term of endearment here.
And a universal racial epithet against blacks hence the monkey chants at your sports games for the hiring of a black player.

It could be a poor joke that was poorly thought out, but her ethnicity has been an issue in those who care about such things and those who pay attention to what the racists do.

Why is this so weird when Roseanne got busted for the same thing?
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Old 13th May 2019, 11:54 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Is that really a good argument? I didn't know about Mel Gibson's predilections until I did, long after he'd been incredibly famous.
Gibson is a 17 months older than Baker. He started drunkenly ranting about Jews in public in 1992. In contrast, Baker has made it to 2019 before posting a picture of a chimp in relation to a child of the royal family he could plausibly not have known to be mixed race (<75% white).

Yeah, totally the same....

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Old 13th May 2019, 12:01 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Gibson is a 17 months older than Baker. He started drunkenly ranting about Jews in public in 1992, five years after raising suspicions with The Passion of the Christ. In contrast, Baker has made it to 2019 before posting a picture of a chimp in relation to a child of the royal family he could plausibly not have known to be mixed race (<75% white).

Yeah, totally the same....
Passion of the Christ is a 2004 movie. It's hardly five years prior to 1992.
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:04 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
I don't think Baker is a racist, I think he posted what he thought was a funny picture without thinking and the speed with which he removed it seems to agree with that. I think it's a bit much to sack him for this although he has a track record so he might have been on thin ice already. I think what Sugar did is worse, I think what Farage does is worse, I think there are plenty other worse people that the BBC give a platform to regularly.

I mean at the end of the day it's not like he did something really awful like dress up in a Nazi uniform to attend a fancy dress party.
Exactly this. I feel a bit sorry for Baker, though what he did was incredibly dumb. Nevertheless, I don't for a second think he's a died-in-the-wool racist who finally let slip the mask he's been maintaining for the last 60 years (and three - count 'em - autobiographies). He's just a bit of a cheeky monkey.
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:05 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Exactly this. I feel a bit sorry for Baker, though what he did was incredibly dumb. Nevertheless, I don't for a second think he's a died-in-the-wool racist who finally let slip the mask he's been maintaining for the last 60 years (and three - count 'em - autobiographies). He's just a bit of a cheeky monkey.
Dude, that's racist!
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:12 PM   #147
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He is a football fan and given the controversies in that game over fans labelling black players as apes, how could he do this? And In the context of hate directed at Markle too.
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:23 PM   #148
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Well, it was a respectable Chimpanzee and not a Bonobo.
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:30 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And how much did Roseanne's work give that indication? Her first series seemed to be pretty anti racist and such. People change and people lose their filters.
Again, not remotely comparable, but even then, so what? Barr is an actor who made a comment about a specific adult, apparently to make a derogatory motivated by her own Judaism/Zionist viewpoint. Baker is a radio commentator whose job is sharing his opinions with his listeners, who is known for Tweets mocking the rich and privileged, and he chose to post a picture of a chimp after the birth of a new royal baby without realising there might be any racial connotations.
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:32 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And a universal racial epithet against blacks hence the monkey chants at your sports games for the hiring of a black player.
No, only at football matches, and only by a small minority of troublemakers. For the majority of the population, a reference to monkeys isn't automatically anything to do with race.

There are also a number of not uncommon English idioms featuring monkeys ("speak to the organ grinder, not the monkey," "if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys," "softly, softly, catchy monkey," etc.).

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Old 13th May 2019, 12:35 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Passion of the Christ is a 2004 movie. It's hardly five years prior to 1992.
My bad - I misread something on his Wikipedia page (a reference to the film breaching some 1988 advice by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops about depictions of Jews).
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Old 13th May 2019, 12:37 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
He is a football fan and given the controversies in that game over fans labelling black players as apes, how could he do this? And In the context of hate directed at Markle too.
So again we get back to the question about, a) whether he knew it was Meghan's baby, and b) whether he was aware of Meghan being mixed race.

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Old 13th May 2019, 12:45 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
So again we get back to the question about a) whether he knew it was Meghan's baby, and b) whether he was aware of Meghan being mixed race.
The chimp? Probably not.
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Old 13th May 2019, 01:07 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
No, only at football matches, and only by a small minority of troublemakers. For the majority of the population, a reference to monkeys isn't automatically anything to do with race.

There are also a number of not uncommon English idioms featuring monkeys ("speak to the organ grinder, not the monkey," "if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys," "softly, softly, catchy monkey," etc.).
Not to mention that monkey chants have not happened at British football matches for years if not decades for the simple reason that I doubt there's a team without a significant number of non white players.
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Old 13th May 2019, 01:13 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Again, not remotely comparable, but even then, so what? Barr is an actor who made a comment about a specific adult, apparently to make a derogatory motivated by her own Judaism/Zionist viewpoint. Baker is a radio commentator whose job is sharing his opinions with his listeners, who is known for Tweets mocking the rich and privileged, and he chose to post a picture of a chimp after the birth of a new royal baby without realising there might be any racial connotations.
Was it ever established that Barr knew Valerie Jarrett had any African ancestry when making here Planet of the Apes tweet?
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Old 13th May 2019, 01:36 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Was it ever established that Barr knew Valerie Jarrett had any African ancestry when making here Planet of the Apes tweet?
I assume itt was a reference to a very vague similarity (mostly the hairstyle) with the made-up Helena Bonham Carter in the 2001 film, but coupling it with a reference to the Muslim Brotherhood about someone who - like Barr - is Jewish. Maybe she was unaware of Jarrett's African heritage, but her being a senior advisor to Obama should have been enough to prompt caution by proxy.
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Old 13th May 2019, 11:40 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
So again we get back to the question about, a) whether he knew it was Meghan's baby, and b) whether he was aware of Meghan being mixed race.
You lost me here? Whether he knew what/who was Meghan's baby? It's a picture of a chimp!

ETA: Ninja'd by elaba... elaga.... some other poster.
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Old 14th May 2019, 12:00 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
So again we get back to the question about, a) whether he knew it was Meghan's baby, and b) whether he was aware of Meghan being mixed race.
How could he not know all of that? Has he denied know these things?
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Old 14th May 2019, 12:15 AM   #159
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In my view the withdrawal of the tweet showed he understood how it could be offensive. He doesn't 'seem the racist' type. I am sure he posted mocking the freek show that surrounds the royal family without thinking about how the post may be interpreted

However he is a broadcaster in the public eye working for the BBC. His job is to think how his words may be interpreted and to be careful with what he says in case he brings his employer into disrepute. As a keen football fan, he will remember the Ron Atkinson incident as well as that of Andy Grey and Richard Keys. He knows how it works.
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Old 14th May 2019, 01:27 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
In my view the withdrawal of the tweet showed he understood how it could be offensive. He doesn't 'seem the racist' type. I am sure he posted mocking the freek show that surrounds the royal family without thinking about how the post may be interpreted

However he is a broadcaster in the public eye working for the BBC. His job is to think how his words may be interpreted and to be careful with what he says in case he brings his employer into disrepute. As a keen football fan, he will remember the Ron Atkinson incident as well as that of Andy Grey and Richard Keys. He knows how it works.
Those incidents were unequivocal. Ron Atkinson used the n-word on a hot mic. There was no way it was a misunderstanding. Andy Grey and Richard Keys were mocking the idea that a woman could officiate at a football game. These incidents are not equivalent.
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