Demand evidence

Emre_1974tr

Graduate Poster
Emre_1974tr
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1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
 
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Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).



2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
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People desire things that exist, therefore desire is evidence that a thing exists?
 
Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).
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No, we don't. It's the other way round. Life evolves to take advantage of the environment. If the Earth had liquid methane oceans, life would probably evolve to drink liquid methane.

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
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Wow, you sure jumped a LOT of logical steps there. Such a statement is completely unrelated to the first one. No connection whatsoever.
 
Norman Alexander said:
No, we don't. It's the other way round. Life evolves to take advantage of the environment. If the Earth had liquid methane oceans, life would probably evolve to drink liquid methane.

Wow, you sure jumped a LOT of logical steps there. Such a statement is completely unrelated to the first one. No connection whatsoever.
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Correct but typical of all posts the poster has pooted in these semi-hallowed pages!!!!!!!
 
Norman Alexander said:
No, we don't. It's the other way round. Life evolves to take advantage of the environment. If the Earth had liquid methane oceans, life would probably evolve to drink liquid methane.

Wow, you sure jumped a LOT of logical steps there. Such a statement is completely unrelated to the first one. No connection whatsoever.
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Cool. I thought it was just me.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
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Gnomes_plan.png


You skipped a step there.

Fred
 
Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
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Emre, this looks to me like a Frankenstein hybrid of a Said Nursi argument for the existence of paradise and the fine-tuned universe argument for the existence of a creator. This fails utterly as argument for either.
 
"It's amazing!" declared the wine. "This glass is shaped exactly the same way I am! What are the odds?"
 
Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).



2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
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Oh! Fun game! What else can we conclude exists just because we want it to?

I want Star Trek’s green chicks with red hair who lust after humans to be real. Preferably a couple bisexual ones who will convince my wife to be a switch hitter with them.

By your own logic, that means it’s wiser to think that they exist. Clearly we need to give NASA more money to build the star ships to send my wife and I to the planet of bisexual green skinned chicks with red hair and a carnal interest in humans.
 
Sideroxylon said:
Emre, this looks to me like a Frankenstein hybrid of a Said Nursi argument for the existence of paradise and the fine-tuned universe argument for the existence of a creator. This fails utterly as argument for either.
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But it’s GREAT as a basis for Star Trek themed smut. It’s not like Star Trek smut writers need much of an excuse but they always like it when someone throws them a bone.
 
halleyscomet said:
Oh! Fun game! What else can we conclude exists just because we want it to?

I want Star Trek’s green chicks with red hair who lust after humans to be real. Preferably a couple bisexual ones who will convince my wife to be a switch hitter with them.

By your own logic, that means it’s wiser to think that they exist. Clearly we need to give NASA more money to build the star ships to send my wife and I to the planet of bisexual green skinned chicks with red hair and a carnal interest in humans.
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Wouldn’t the parallel go:
P1- I want Star Trek’s green chicks with red hair who lust after humans to be real.
P2 They are real

(A whole lot of unstated assumptions.)

C: Paradise exists (with a whole lot of Star Trek green chicks with red hair who lust after humans).

ETA. No, I get your point now. Trump, get Space Force funding for this.
 
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Nowhere Man said:
[qimg]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Gnomes_plan.png[/qimg]

You skipped a step there.

Fred
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1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
 
Sideroxylon said:
Wouldn’t the parallel go:
P1- I want Star Trek’s green chicks with red hair who lust after humans to be real.
P2 They are real

(A whole lot of unstated assumptions.)

C: Paradise exists (with a whole lot of Star Trek green chicks with red hair who lust after humans).

ETA. No, I get your point now. Trump, get Space Force funding for this.
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SEE! Make love not war!

Lots and lots of love.

Until we’re chafed.

Wait, if we’re in danger of chafing we can just WISH for the perfect moisturizing lube, which means it’s only logical that it exists!
 
Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).



2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.



3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
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Exactly. That’s why it’s wiser to think space orgies with green-skinned redheads exist.

You want, to paraphrase a philosopher, your ID preserved in an ideal state indefinitely. I want to engage in carnal activities with, well, I’ll stop there. While what I was about to describe is legal in most places the forum does have very clear rules about obscenity.

By the way, before anyone tries to report my posts as off-topic I’d like to point out that OP has already described paradise as an eternity of consequence-free lust and gluttony in another thread. We’re BOTH wishing for space sex orgies and are justifying the possibility of them existing with the exact same logic. The primary difference is I know wishing won’t make it so and I’m not eager to die to find out if wishes come true.
 
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Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
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Most sentient creatures want to do this, not just humans.

And adding another completely unrelated step doesn't stop it being an Underpants Gnome argument.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Most sentient creatures want to do this, not just humans.



And adding another completely unrelated step doesn't stop it being an Underpants Gnome argument.
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I suspect the underpants gnomes were a parody of religious beliefs to begin with.

BTW, You just demonstrated that OP has provided a theological basis for the movie “All Dogs Go to Heaven.”
 
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So where's the evidence in the OP? I thought the topic was to demand evidence and all I see is a lack of evidence.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
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I want quite a few things that I don't have (a perfect woman who loves me madly, world peace, etc.) So believing that everything I want exists is not very intelligent. It's a way to clash with reality.
By the way, Christians also believe that God is beyond time and eternal. The idea does not make them panic.
Boethius (480-525): "Eternity, then, is the whole, simultaneous and perfect possession of boundless life"
Thomas Aquinas (1224-1274): “Eternity is simultaneously whole, while time is not, eternity measuring abiding existence and time measuring change… the primary intrinsic difference of time from eternity is that eternity exists as a simultaneous whole and time does not“ .
 
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Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
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You've added a step and somehow made your argument worse.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever. 3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.
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This part is Nursi, isn’t it.
 
"Paradise is exactly like where you are right now. Only much much better." - Laurie Anderson
 
MEequalsIxR said:
So where's the evidence in the OP? I thought the topic was to demand evidence and all I see is a lack of evidence.
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The "evidence" is literally wishful thinking.



Emre_1974tr is arguing for a supernatural posthumous perpetuation of his ID based on an extreme interpretation of "The Secret"
 
No, "Secret book" defends pagan thought / brain power absurdity.

There is no thought power in my sentences. I'm showing the opposite.
 
OP, saying that good things come to people who want them does not mean good things materialize to people who envision them. This is like Pascals Wager on meth.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
No, "Secret book" defends pagan thought / brain power absurdity.

There is no thought power in my sentences. I'm showing the opposite.
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I get the reference now (prompted by Thermal)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book)

Now, I recognised that is not what you were saying because I had seen part of this made by Nursi who may well have gotten it from someone like Al-Ghazali. As I understand it, the argument addresses people who already believe in a beneficent God.

There is a god who is beneficent/merciful towards human beings.
We have a deep desire for eternal life.
It would be incompatible with these traits of God’s to deny us this desire.
Therefore a realm of eternal existence exists.
 
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Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
Click to expand...

A nonsensical nonsequitur. A rare beast, and one that clearly needs no water to subsist.
 
Also similar to Descartes proof of an external world.

Very briefly with a lot of stuff missing from what was quite a gallop anyway.:
I exist
A perfect God exists.
Deception would be incompatible with this idea of perfection.
Therefore an external world that correlates to our sense experience exists.
 
Let's grant you your conclusion Emre...

Now, how about some evidence that it's the Muslim paradise that exists?
People also desired the Elysian Fields, Valhalla, the Christian heaven, heavenly Buddhist and Hindu realms one can reincarnate into, or even complete oneness with everything/ oblivion.

So why your paradise?
And please don't say that it's written in your holy text and that the other ones are fake. Because that's what they all claim.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- So it is wiser to think that paradise exists.
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3-Nope, indeed NOPE!!
 
Porpoise of Life said:
Let's grant you your conclusion Emre...

Now, how about some evidence that it's the Muslim paradise that exists?
.
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Answer is in my sentences:

1- We see that the natural and healthy desires of the people are generally in return (for example, the existence / presence of water as a response to the desire for drinking water, etc.).

2- People want to live in health, happiness and pleasure, blessings forever.

3- So it is wiser to think that Paradise exists.

**************

And what is Paradise in Quran?

43:71 They will be served with golden trays and cups, and they will find everything the self desires and the eyes wish for, and you will abide therein forever.
 
You've ignored the rest of my post, and actually my question...
How do you know your paradise is real, and the paradises of others aren't?
And you can't refer to the existence of your religion as evidence, because every religion can do that...
 
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