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Tags Allan Kardec , life after death , spiritism , spiritualism

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Old 18th August 2019, 09:34 AM   #241
jond
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
it would be like a certain thought of mine ... causes an intelligent force to approach and causes my left shoulder to twitch ..always my left shoulder ... never the right ...
Sure sounds like neurological issues to me. Nothing about this requires any sort of external influence.
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Old 18th August 2019, 09:57 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by jond View Post
Sure sounds like neurological issues to me. Nothing about this requires any sort of external influence.
It also sounds like you would do well to discuss your symptoms with your doctor rather than random people on the Internet.
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Old 18th August 2019, 10:48 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by jond View Post
It also sounds like you would do well to discuss your symptoms with your doctor rather than random people on the Internet.
Psychiatrist and doctors do not usually interest themselves in the possibility of the existence of spirits. If you consult a medical professional about such matters they usually assume you are delusional and could benefit from medication.

How frustrating and futile do you think that is for a person who may actually be experiencing psychic feelings?
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Old 18th August 2019, 11:08 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Psychiatrist and doctors do not usually interest themselves in the possibility of the existence of spirits. If you consult a medical professional about such matters they usually assume you are delusional and could benefit from medication.

How frustrating and futile do you think that is for a person who may actually be experiencing psychic feelings?
Yes, they deal in things that actually exist and can be documented. It might be frustrating but if it were me, I wouldn’t want anyone adding make believe entities without evidence when a neurological condition explains the symptoms.
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Old 18th August 2019, 11:14 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by jond View Post
Yes, they deal in things that actually exist and can be documented. It might be frustrating but if it were me, I wouldn’t want anyone adding make believe entities without evidence when a neurological condition explains the symptoms.
I hate to drag this up again, as I have mentioned it many times before, but a voice told me I was going to have a win on the lottery one hour before the draw. I have done the lottery since it began, and the only time a voice ever told me I would win I got five numbers.

This may be an anecdote which convinces nobody else, but it convinced me I sometimes hear genuine spirit voices.
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Old 18th August 2019, 11:26 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I hate to drag this up again, as I have mentioned it many times before, but a voice told me I was going to have a win on the lottery one hour before the draw. I have done the lottery since it began, and the only time a voice ever told me I would win I got five numbers.

This may be an anecdote which convinces nobody else, but it convinced me I sometimes hear genuine spirit voices.
You’re right, it’s not any more convincing now than it was when you first brought it up. But your thread is a prime example of skeptics offering mundane explanations and the proponent refusing to consider any of them.

I can’t imagine what it would be like to suffer from Capgras syndrome, but the fact that a region of the brain is damaged severing the connection between visual recognition and emotional recognition is just that: a fact. It might feel for all the world that my loved ones have been replaced by imposters, but the fact is that they haven’t been.
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Old 18th August 2019, 11:39 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by jond View Post
You’re right, it’s not any more convincing now than it was when you first brought it up. But your thread is a prime example of skeptics offering mundane explanations and the proponent refusing to consider any of them.

I can’t imagine what it would be like to suffer from Capgras syndrome, but the fact that a region of the brain is damaged severing the connection between visual recognition and emotional recognition is just that: a fact. It might feel for all the world that my loved ones have been replaced by imposters, but the fact is that they haven’t been.
In spite of what Daniel Dennett says, I do not believe consciousness has been explained. I believe we are the ghost in the machine, and not a product of brain activity. So for me some experiences are spiritual and psychic, not just biochemical. Things may go wrong with the brain that effect our ability to function, but in the end our minds are greater than just biological constructs. We experience thought as free. If we were just animals surely our thoughts would be largely instinctual, and there would be no religions or art or music. We would just be cultureless hairless monkeys.
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Old 18th August 2019, 12:05 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
In spite of what Daniel Dennett says, I do not believe consciousness has been explained. I believe we are the ghost in the machine, and not a product of brain activity. So for me some experiences are spiritual and psychic, not just biochemical. Things may go wrong with the brain that effect our ability to function, but in the end our minds are greater than just biological constructs. We experience thought as free. If we were just animals surely our thoughts would be largely instinctual, and there would be no religions or art or music. We would just be cultureless hairless monkeys.
The problem is that your explanation requires external entities that have no evidence in their favor, and they require a mechanism by which those entities can interact with brains to produce brain functions that we absolutely do know happen when our brains engage in activities we call consciousness. No such mechanism is known, and there is good reason to believe that at this point they do not exist.

BTW, the neuroscientist V.S. Ramachandran goes into some nice detail about art and our brains in his book The Tell Tale Brain. Fascinating bit of reading.
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Old 18th August 2019, 12:49 PM   #249
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another phenomenon happens to me ... when spirits approach me ..I start yawning ... yawning is an effect of approaching them especially when I'm not sleepy ... to me this is evidence of the existence of spirits. ..
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Old 18th August 2019, 12:50 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
it would be like a certain thought of mine ... causes an intelligent force to approach and causes my left shoulder to twitch ..always my left shoulder ... never the right ...
I had two past injuries in the spine. After the 2nd I get occasional spasms in the right arm. Not before that injury.

The only spirit involved was Bacardi151. That was my fault.

Do a test. See a Dr. and describe your symptoms. If any injury ever occured and may affect that twitch mention it.

If that Dr. can offer a solution double check his result with other cases. Does it fit your personal history?

Weigh that against the words in a book written in the 1850's and the relative ignorance of medical at the time. Decide which seems more enlightened and come tell us why.

Only you can do this as only you feel it. We are interested in knowing a result.
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Old 18th August 2019, 12:57 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
I had two past injuries in the spine. After the 2nd I get occasional spasms in the right arm. Not before that injury.

The only spirit involved was Bacardi151. That was my fault.

Do a test. See a Dr. and describe your symptoms. If any injury ever occured and may affect that twitch mention it.

If that Dr. can offer a solution double check his result with other cases. Does it fit your personal history?

Weigh that against the words in a book written in the 1850's and the relative ignorance of medical at the time. Decide which seems more enlightened and come tell us why.

Only you can do this as only you feel it. We are interested in knowing a result.
it took me a long time to believe this ... at first i was very skeptical about the existence of spirits ... they are invisible ... i am serious believe me !!
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Old 18th August 2019, 01:00 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
another phenomenon happens to me ... when spirits approach me ..I start yawning ... yawning is an effect of approaching them especially when I'm not sleepy ... to me this is evidence of the existence of spirits. ..
Yawning when you're not sleepy is evidence of the existence of spirits? Do you know that people regularly yawn when they're not sleepy, like when they're bored?

That's some weak sauce right there.
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Old 18th August 2019, 01:03 PM   #253
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another phenomenon that happened to me ... one day I suddenly felt a very strong pain in my abdomen ... my mother said a prayer ... and the pain disappeared immediately ... the spirits can act in the matter ... in case they caused the pain in me!
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Old 18th August 2019, 01:05 PM   #254
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they can act on our Matter ... it was a very strong pain!
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Old 18th August 2019, 02:29 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If we were just animals surely our thoughts would be largely instinctual, and there would be no religions or art or music.
Well, religion is an advanced form of superstition, and superstitions certainly exist in animals. There are some incredibly famous examples of experiments creating superstitious behaviours in pigeons.

As for art and music, there are plenty of animals who create artistic displays in order to attract a mate, and there have been experiments demonstrating that animals can appreciate music, if the music is created to cater to the animal. And, while the field of study is small and the research limited, there is some evidence that some animals may create music that is not just functional - the area of female sparrows that lights up when they hear male sparrow song is the same area of the brain that lights up when humans hear a song they like.

There is obviously a distance between us and other animals, but I think we're more similar than you think we are.
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Old 18th August 2019, 02:31 PM   #256
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Ricardo, do you actually want to discuss the books that you pointed people towards, or do you just want to use this thread to post random thoughts?
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Old 18th August 2019, 02:38 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Ricardo, do you actually want to discuss the books that you pointed people towards, or do you just want to use this thread to post random thoughts?
I just cited these books ... why the evidence of the existence of spirits ... are documented or recorded in these books ok ...
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Old 18th August 2019, 02:50 PM   #258
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Goose bumps, yawns, and abdomen pains. Wow!

You hard nosed skeptics out there. What will it take to convince you?
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Old 18th August 2019, 03:07 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Goose bumps, yawns, and abdomen pains. Wow!

You hard nosed skeptics out there. What will it take to convince you?
the cause of chills, yawning and abdominal pain ... is the spirits ... this is the evidence ... so the spirits exist ...
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Old 18th August 2019, 03:08 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
I just cited these books ...
What you're not doing is discussing the books. You're just posting random stuff and saying "that's in the books!"

What are your thoughts on the colonialist attitudes of the spirits cited in the books? What do you think about the scientific inaccuracies in the books?
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Old 18th August 2019, 03:14 PM   #261
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Against mysticism, the gods themselves yawn with boredom.
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Old 18th August 2019, 03:23 PM   #262
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personal due to the difficulty in the English language ... for me ... I close the debate ... thanks everyone!
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Old 18th August 2019, 04:03 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
personal due to the difficulty in the English language ... for me ... I close the debate ... thanks everyone!

Difficulty in the English language?

Given the posts presented I would say it's more a case of difficulty in critical thinking.

Closed the debate?

Must have missed it but I didn't notice you engaging in debate.
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Old 18th August 2019, 04:40 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
personal due to the difficulty in the English language ... for me ... I close the debate ... thanks everyone!
Huh. You apparently felt quite up to the task when beginning the thread and all the way through chiding members to read these books until a person who has proven to have read a book wishes to finally engage... now for some strange reason, it's too difficult?

Well... adios.
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Old 18th August 2019, 06:37 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
personal due to the difficulty in the English language ... for me ... I close the debate ... thanks everyone!
Run away!

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Old 19th August 2019, 12:19 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post

I have said until we reach such a state of grace we reincarnate and spend time in the spirit world between incarnations, and during that time we assimilate the experiences of our recent lifetime.

Is this what you believe?
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"
He said, "Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

- emo philips
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Old 19th August 2019, 12:26 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
personal due to the difficulty in the English language ... for me ... I close the debate ... thanks everyone!
You're not looking to debate at all. I would say you're looking for validation, but you're refusing to engage even with the one person in this thread who agrees with you and who, like you, is studiously ignoring the things in the books which are problematic.

Honestly, it looks like you're posting just for the sake of making posts.
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Old 19th August 2019, 12:53 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
another phenomenon that happened to me ... one day I suddenly felt a very strong pain in my abdomen ... my mother said a prayer ... and the pain disappeared immediately ... the spirits can act in the matter ... in case they caused the pain in me!
He'll be a newt soon.
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Old 19th August 2019, 02:19 AM   #269
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I've been skimming the last book in the link that Ricardo was spamming until someone actually used it and has since ignored, because it claims to have predictions. Give that it's around 150 years old, I thought that it could be a fun exercise to see if it predicted anything within that time period. The best I can find, however, is a chapter entitled "Predictions Of The Gospels", and a note in another part of the book saying that no prediction can be accurate.

I can, however, find more colonialist nonsense, the biggest gem of which being the following:

Quote:
As there are no sudden transitions in nature, it is probable that the first men appearing on Earth have differed little from monkeys in exterior form, and probably no more in intelligence. There are still in our day savages who, by the length of their arms and feet, and the formation of their heads, have so many ways like a monkey, that a hairy covering only is missing to complete the resemble.
There appears to be an entire chapter on "fluids", which I believe may turn up some gold when I get round to reading it later.
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Old 19th August 2019, 02:23 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
the cause of chills, yawning and abdominal pain ... is the spirits ... this is the evidence ... so the spirits exist ...
No, your chills, yawning and abdominal pain are only evidence of chills, yawning and abdominal pain. You have yet to establish that these symptoms were caused by spirits. How exactly do the spirits cause these effects? Furthermore, is anyone who yawns or has goosebumps experiencing some kind of spirit visitation, or just you?
Also, why are your spirits so limited? Scorpion's talk to him and give him lottery numbers. Why can't yours do that?
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Old 19th August 2019, 04:42 AM   #271
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the empirical evidence of the existence of spirits ... is documented and recorded in these books ... in official science there is no evidence ... because the spiritist doctrine is not within the purview of science ... just read these books ...

thank you to all the atheists, skeptics and agnostics of this forum ...

Last edited by Ricardo; 19th August 2019 at 04:47 AM.
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Old 19th August 2019, 04:50 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
the empirical evidence of the existence of spirits ... is documented and recorded in these books ... in official science there is no evidence ... because the spiritist doctrine is not within the purview of science ... just read these books ...

thank you to all the atheists, skeptics and agnostics of this forum ...
If the spirits can interact with our molecules, as you posted yesterday, they are indeed within the purview of science. That interaction is absolutely scientifically testable.
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Old 19th August 2019, 05:27 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Ricardo
another phenomenon happens to me ... when spirits approach me ..I start yawning ... yawning is an effect of approaching them especially when I'm not sleepy ... to me this is evidence of the existence of spirits. ..
That's one of the most blatantly circular bits of reasoning I've seen in my life.

What makes you think yawning is linked to spirits?

Quote:
another phenomenon that happened to me ... one day I suddenly felt a very strong pain in my abdomen ... my mother said a prayer ... and the pain disappeared immediately ... the spirits can act in the matter ... in case they caused the pain in me!
Look up "psychosomatic".

Quote:
the empirical evidence of the existence of spirits ... is documented and recorded in these books ... in official science there is no evidence ... because the spiritist doctrine is not within the purview of science
You're contradicting yourself. If the empirical evidence exists then it IS within the purview of science.
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Old 19th August 2019, 06:35 AM   #274
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If there is "empirical evidence of the existence of spirits", then it's within the purview of science.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:03 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That's one of the most blatantly circular bits of reasoning I've seen in my life.

What makes you think yawning is linked to spirits?



Look up "psychosomatic".



You're contradicting yourself. If the empirical evidence exists then it IS within the purview of science.
Allan Kardec ... the codifier of the Spiritist doctrine ... used his own methodology ... to get the evidence of the existence of the spirits ... BELZ .. even using the methodology that is in these books that I indicated can get the evidence of spirit stocks ... this can be done in your own home ... I believe you are the carrier of unconscious intuitive mediumship ... use the methodology of Allan Kardec ... it is in the mediums book ...http://ssbaltimore.org/e-books/
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:05 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That's one of the most blatantly circular bits of reasoning I've seen in my life.

What makes you think yawning is linked to spirits?



Look up "psychosomatic".



You're contradicting yourself. If the empirical evidence exists then it IS within the purview of science.
but the pain disappeared immediately ... it was a matter of seconds ...
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:10 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
If there is "empirical evidence of the existence of spirits", then it's within the purview of science.
within the reach of the own methodology created and used by Allan Kardec ... the spirits are beyond the reach of "official science" science would have to use the methodology created and used by Allan Kardec ...
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:25 AM   #278
carlitos
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
... ... ... ... ... ...
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
... ... ... ... ...
Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
... ... ...
The five most annoying ways to use an ellipsis:


Quote:
1. Using them … like a written ‘erm’ …

Trailing off in the middle of sentences in spoken conversation is common and almost unavoidable. (Unless you’re Oscar Wilde – WB Yeats said Wilde was the first person he’d met who spoke in perfect sentences.) But it’s rarely necessary to do this in writing.

In spoken conversation, you can rely on various cues to tell you whether the other person understands what you’re saying, and clarify as needed. But in writing, you need to be clear first time. Many writers use ellipses like written equivalents of ‘erm’ and ‘er’, but this can be confusing and frustrating for the reader.


...

2. Trailing off for no reason …

An ellipsis at the end of a sentence implies that the writer has trailed off. But why has the writer trailed off? Are they suggesting something? Does it represent a nudge or a wink?

Those three little dots suggest something is going on, but give the reader no clue about what it might be. This can make otherwise straightforward sentences confusing and (occasionally) somewhat unsettling.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:30 AM   #279
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
within the reach of the own methodology created and used by Allan Kardec ... the spirits are beyond the reach of "official science" science would have to use the methodology created and used by Allan Kardec ...
Yes, I've read where he says that. It's bollocks, of course, and if there is empirical evidence of anything, then that thing is within the purview of science.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:33 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
personal due to the difficulty in the English language ... for me ... I close the debate ... thanks everyone!
Why did you post a few days ago that you no longer believe in spirits when it's clear from this thread that you're still an avid believer?
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