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Old 9th September 2019, 04:27 PM   #1
Bob001
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The impact of unpaid medical bills.

Some posts in another thread about what happens if you don't or can't pay your medical bills were moved to AAH. But it seems like something worth discussing in its own thread. Here's one account of a top university hospital suing 36,000 patients for $106 million.
Quote:
Over six years ending in June 2018, the health system and its doctors sued former patients more than 36,000 times for over $106 million, seizing wages and bank accounts, putting liens on property and homes and forcing families into bankruptcy, a Kaiser Health News analysis has found.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...18c_story.html
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Old 9th September 2019, 04:52 PM   #2
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My problem with the system is that it starts with grossly inflated prices. Insurance companies get 60-90% discounts. It's only that 36,000 patients that they try to ream with the full price.

I wonder if the uninsured patient can find an independent Medical Auditor to try for the discounts?

But if I do the math from the OP, 106m divided between 36K patients is about $3,00 each?
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Old 9th September 2019, 08:10 PM   #3
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A few decades ago as I was paying off a C section birth we were a bit poor, but she and the baby got good care in the follow up. A friend told me he went in emergency every time and never paid a dime. Never will.
His reasons were the crappy minimal care they got. It seemed a self fulfilling prophesy.

He had nothing to take, no car or home. Just a seasonal job in tree farming.

Law says he must get basic care in emergency but it doesn't say he gets top notch care. USA law is like that. In Mexico I am not guaranteed anything but for a 10 dollar consulting fee I can get good care in many small clinics attached to pharmacy stores. Good young doctors at that. In my times of need I was never turned away nor shorted. I never skipped paying them .
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Old 9th September 2019, 10:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
My problem with the system is that it starts with grossly inflated prices. Insurance companies get 60-90% discounts. It's only that 36,000 patients that they try to ream with the full price.

I wonder if the uninsured patient can find an independent Medical Auditor to try for the discounts?

But if I do the math from the OP, 106m divided between 36K patients is about $3,00 each?
From the article

...... UVA sued patients for as little as $13.91 and as much as $1 million during most of that period, until July 2017, when it restricted lawsuits to those owing more than $1,000, the analysis shows......
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Old 9th September 2019, 10:54 PM   #5
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This was the point I brought up:

Before paying a debt collector, know your rights

I believe the claim I responded to was one that the debt collector drained a person's bank account. I may not be correct since it was off topic and I didn't want to discuss it in that thread.

It is my understanding any wage garnishment or asset seizure has to be ordered by a court. There are some exceptions like the IRS has some collection privileges.

I do believe creditors can put liens on your house. In order to enforce that lien they have to go to court.

Medical debt is apparently the cause of homelessness so I believe that involves more than just this generalization. It's not as simple or straight forward as that. The debtor does have rights.

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act

All of it is very muddled. Makes one wonder if the people writing the legislation had other loyalties than the little guy in mind.
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Old 9th September 2019, 10:57 PM   #6
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Here, this is the one I was looking for: Money That Cannot be Taken from You ("Garnished") to pay off a Debt
Quote:
These types of income or money cannot be taken from you to pay off a debt:

Social Security disability and retirement benefits (unless you owe child support, federal student loans, or a federal tax debt)

SSI benefits

TANF benefits (state welfare)

ABD benefits (state disability)

Unemployment Compensation (unless you owe child support)

VA (Veteran’s Administration) benefits (with some exceptions for money you owe the government or for support)

Federal student loans

Child support you receive

Most pensions

Money in your bank account:

$2,500 is exempt if your only judgment is for private student loan debt

$2,000 is exempt if the judgment you are being garnished for is consumer debt

$500 in your bank account is exempt for all other debts (and $1,000 additional cash, for a total exemption of up to $1500)

*Most garnishments will be for judgments for consumer debt. Consumer debts include debts from credit cards, doctor bills, hospital bills, utility bills, phone bills, personal loans from a bank or credit union, debts owed to a landlord or former landlord, or any other debt for personal, family, or household purposes.
*DO NOT PUT ANY MONEY OTHER THAN SOCIAL SECURITY OR VA BENEFITS IN A BANK ACCOUNT if you can help it.
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:15 PM   #7
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Debt Buyers, min. 20:51 (Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, June 5, 2016)
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Debt Angels: Ex-Bill Collectors Erase Strangers' Medical Debts With John Oliver & Occupy Wall Street, min 4:45 (Freethink, June 8, 2019)
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:20 PM   #8
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I think medicine is the only profession where you can get service and not have to pay for it. People come to our office all the time, “I’m sorry, I didn’t bring my wallet today. Can I just pay my copay next time?” Or we do them the courtesy of billing their insurance first and then they make excuses as to why they can’t pay their deductible or coinsurance. This would never fly in any other industry. You can’t go to the grocery store, having not eaten in a couple days, and tell them you left your wallet at home. You can’t go to a landlord when you are broke and homeless and expect them to provide you a place to sleep and just “put it on your tab.” Didn’t pay your water bill? The city has no problem shutting off the water, thirsty kids be damned.

The question we should explore is, “Why is medicine different from any other industry?”
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:22 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It varies state by state. There are no protections in most states from seizing bank accounts.

https://www.npr.org/2014/09/16/34870...uld-be-at-risk
Quote:
Then, Fiotti, 44, took a pricey fall.

"When I came back, I fell and I broke my wrist without insurance," she says.
Quote:
In May of last year, Fiotti suddenly realized, "My bank account's at zero and I'm like, whoa, what's going on?"

Debt collectors had seized her bank account because she didn't have enough to cover the debt. Fiotti says she was stunned. "You're taking everything that I have," she says. "You're not just taking a portion of it, you're taking my livelihood."
Quote:
On the heels of the worst recession in generations, 1 in 10 working Americans between the ages of 35 and 44 is getting his or her wages garnished. That means their pay is being docked — often over an old credit card debt, medical bill or student loan.

But just how much money can collectors legally seize from people's wages and bank accounts? The answer is more than you might think.

In about half the states in the country, collectors can seize 25 percent of your paycheck. In all but a handful of states, they can take everything in your bank account.
Quote:
Federal law regulating debt collection is silent on perhaps the most punishing tactic of collectors: It doesn't limit or prohibit them from cleaning out debtors' bank accounts.

State laws, while often more comprehensive, vary significantly. Only a handful, for instance, automatically protect a minimum amount of funds in a debtor's account.

When garnishment protections do exist, the burden is usually on debtors to figure out if and how the laws protect their assets.
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I think medicine is the only profession where you can get service and not have to pay for it. People come to our office all the time, “I’m sorry, I didn’t bring my wallet today. Can I just pay my copay next time?” Or we do them the courtesy of billing their insurance first and then they make excuses as to why they can’t pay their deductible or coinsurance. This would never fly in any other industry. You can’t go to the grocery store, having not eaten in a couple days, and tell them you left your wallet at home. You can’t go to a landlord when you are broke and homeless and expect them to provide you a place to sleep and just “put it on your tab.” Didn’t pay your water bill? The city has no problem shutting off the water, thirsty kids be damned.

The question we should explore is, “Why is medicine different from any other industry?”
Most doctors just turn you away if you don't have the co-pay/deductible/coinsurance.

You're not legally obligated to let them in the exam room.
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:31 PM   #11
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And this is the part you left out of your first link:
Quote:
Court records show that the collectors sued Fiotti, but that she didn't show up in court for the hearing about her case.
I'll have to look at the rest of your posts later. It's late here.
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The question we should explore is, “Why is medicine different from any other industry?”
To answer this question as it pertains to ER care, most other "industries" are not ones where you're going to possibly be dead in an hour if you don't get the "service".

The really real question is, "Why is medicine treated like any other industry in the US, where doctors (except for in the ER) can turn patients away for inability to pay? Why is the US alone among developed nations in regularly dooming the poor to die from treatable medical issues?"

Why are we okay with this?
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...alth-coverage/
Quote:
Nearly 45,000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance,...
That's almost half a million people a decade.

Quote:
The study found a 40 percent increased risk of death among the uninsured.
Quote:
Steffie Woolhandler, study co-author, professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, and a primary care physician at Cambridge Health Alliance, noted: “Historically, every other developed nation has achieved universal health care through some form of nonprofit national health insurance. Our failure to do so means that all Americans pay higher health care costs, and 45,000 pay with their lives.”
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
.....
The question we should explore is, “Why is medicine different from any other industry?”

Or you could ask "Why is health care in the U.S. more expensive than in any other country?"

From the story:
Quote:
The medical center, the flagship of UVA Health System, earned $554 million in profit over the six years ending June 2018, and holds stocks, bonds and other investments worth $1 billion, according to financial statements. CEO Sutton-Wallace makes $750,000, with bonus incentives that could push her annual pay close to $1 million, according to a copy of her employment contract, obtained under public information law.

Yet UVA offers more limited financial assistance than any other major health system in Virginia, according to an analysis of policies at organizations including Inova, Sentara Healthcare, Riverside Health and Carilion Clinic.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...18c_story.html

Last edited by Bob001; 10th September 2019 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:42 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And this is the part you left out of your first link:

I'll have to look at the rest of your posts later. It's late here.
There is no part of the law that says they can only seize your bank account if the person fails to appear in court.

Like NPR said, "In all but a handful of states, they can take everything in your bank account." NOT "they can take everything in your bank account if you don't show up for court."
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Note that your post is about Washington state law. Federal law sets some limits, but debt collection is largely a state matter, and laws and practices vary widely among the states.

Last edited by Bob001; 10th September 2019 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I think medicine is the only profession where you can get service and not have to pay for it.

... unless you're too big to fail.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
There is no part of the law that says they can only seize your bank account if the person fails to appear in court.

Like NPR said, "In all but a handful of states, they can take everything in your bank account." NOT "they can take everything in your bank account if you don't show up for court."
WTF?

What part of due process do you not understand? I don't think you understand the NPR comment. What would stop me from claiming you owe me a medical bill and serving your bank with a garnishment notice?

You have to go tell the judge said confiscation would put you in the street.

Courts typically rule in the plaintiff's favor if the defendant fails to appear. Look it up.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Note that your post is about Washington state law. Federal law sets some limits, but debt collection is largely a state matter, and laws and practices vary widely among the states.
I know that. What state is going to allow debt collection willy nilly?

Gee, move to that state and you can be a legally authorized crook.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:12 PM   #19
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I don't see anything in that NPR article that says one has no due process.

Quote:
In recent years, debt collectors have been filing millions of lawsuits against working Americans that are resulting in wage garnishments. That's according to an analysis by the payroll services company ADP.
Quote:
Lawyers and judges involved in these cases say it's common for people who are sued by debt collectors to not show up in court to defend themselves.
You copied all those worst case scenarios and left out key issues with due process.
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Old 10th September 2019, 04:52 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I think medicine is the only profession where you can get service and not have to pay for it. People come to our office all the time, “I’m sorry, I didn’t bring my wallet today. Can I just pay my copay next time?” Or we do them the courtesy of billing their insurance first and then they make excuses as to why they can’t pay their deductible or coinsurance. This would never fly in any other industry. You can’t go to the grocery store, having not eaten in a couple days, and tell them you left your wallet at home. You can’t go to a landlord when you are broke and homeless and expect them to provide you a place to sleep and just “put it on your tab.” Didn’t pay your water bill? The city has no problem shutting off the water, thirsty kids be damned.

The question we should explore is, “Why is medicine different from any other industry?”
First, having worked in receivables in another industry... lol no, tons of businesses and individuals don't pay their bills in professions other than medical.

To me, the medical industry is different in that they can seemingly just charge whatever the **** they. I went to the dentist a few weeks ago had some filling and an extraction. They literally gave me a number and had me sign. I paid with my CC on the way out. They billed my insurance who paid what they were supposed to. THEN THEY SENT ME A BILL FOR MORE MONEY BECAUSE THEY CAN?!?!
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Old 10th September 2019, 05:21 PM   #21
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What a "medical bill" ... some kind of prosthetic beak, for a disabled duck?
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Old 10th September 2019, 06:19 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I think medicine is the only profession where you can get service and not have to pay for it. People come to our office all the time, “I’m sorry, I didn’t bring my wallet today. Can I just pay my copay next time?” Or we do them the courtesy of billing their insurance first and then they make excuses as to why they can’t pay their deductible or coinsurance. This would never fly in any other industry. You can’t go to the grocery store, having not eaten in a couple days, and tell them you left your wallet at home. You can’t go to a landlord when you are broke and homeless and expect them to provide you a place to sleep and just “put it on your tab.” Didn’t pay your water bill? The city has no problem shutting off the water, thirsty kids be damned.

The question we should explore is, “Why is medicine different from any other industry?”
Lots of reasons.

But I sincerely wish that you could get your dream of making medicine more like other industries. I would love it if, when I showed up to your office, you would say, "If you want that service, it will cost you $83.50", and I would be happy to pay at the time of delivery, and then submit my bill to an insurance company if I had it.

If it's a lot, I would have to set up a payment plan, of course. You can't expect me to come up with $4,000 for that test right on the spot. You'll have to float me a loan until the insurance company pays, or until I can pay it off.

In every other industry, you know how much the services are going to cost before you agree to receive them. At the very least, you get an estimate, and the law says that the final bill can't be a whole lot more than the estimate.

The two phenomena are closely related.
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Old 10th September 2019, 07:20 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
WTF?

What part of due process do you not understand? I don't think you understand the NPR comment. What would stop me from claiming you owe me a medical bill and serving your bank with a garnishment notice?

You have to go tell the judge said confiscation would put you in the street.

Courts typically rule in the plaintiff's favor if the defendant fails to appear. Look it up.
If you have medical bills you have not paid for whatever reason, the judge is going to rule against you, unless the bills are fraudulent.

Telling the judge you can't afford to pay it doesn't mean you can win and they won't/can't seize your bank account. Judges don't rule in people's favor just because they're poor.

https://www.ovlg.com/education/what-...cal-bills.html
Quote:
When a debt collection agency files a lawsuit against you and wins the case, the court will order judgment against you. The collection agency can garnish your wage or levy your bank account.
"But I'm poor" isn't an argument I've ever heard of working in court to get out of a judgement over medical bills.

There is NO LAW in most states protect people's bank accounts from being seized over medical debt.
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Old 10th September 2019, 07:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't see anything in that NPR article that says one has no due process.

You copied all those worst case scenarios and left out key issues with due process.
The purpose of the due process is to ensure the bill wasn't fraudulent.

I seriously dare you to try to find legal advice about "How to prove to the judge you're actually too poor to pay it". LOL

That sort of advice doesn't exist, because how poor you are (in most states) is not relevant to the question of if you have to pay the bill, or if they can take your bank account and wage garnish you to get some of the money they're owed.

This is all a big part of why people file for bankruptcy over medical bills. That's what you're "supposed" to do if you can't pay the bills.

If bill isn't fraudulent, you go to court just to avoid jail for missing court.
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Old 10th September 2019, 07:43 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
....
You have to go tell the judge said confiscation would put you in the street
.....
Where did you get the idea that inability to pay protects you against a judgment, and all the collection mechanisms that follow? What do you think happens when a bank forecloses on the house of somebody who can't pay the mortgage? Hint: The answer includes the word "street."
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Old 10th September 2019, 07:48 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
....
In every other industry, you know how much the services are going to cost before you agree to receive them. At the very least, you get an estimate, and the law says that the final bill can't be a whole lot more than the estimate.

The two phenomena are closely related.
Beyond that, you in every other industry you can comparison shop. But obtaining reliable price information from doctors and hospitals is nearly impossible, even for journalists who are experts at obtaining information and who aren't in medical need.
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Old 10th September 2019, 07:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Beyond that, you in every other industry you can comparison shop.
I wasn't even conscious when I accumulated my medical debt (over epilepsy.)

It's hard to "shop around for the best price" when you're unconscious. LOL
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:03 PM   #28
Bob001
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I know that. What state is going to allow debt collection willy nilly?

Gee, move to that state and you can be a legally authorized crook.
What? I just made the point that laws and practices vary among states, and what's prohibited or restricted in Washington isn't necessarily treated that way elsewhere. Someone tells you their bank account was seized, and you say "No, that couldn't happen." Maybe not where you live, but it's a big country.
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:05 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I wasn't even conscious when I accumulated my medical debt (over epilepsy.)

It's hard to "shop around for the best price" when you're unconscious. LOL
That's actually an interesting question. When someone is unconscious, how can they consent to be treated, let alone agree to pay for the treatment? Not that I would want ERs to turn away the most desperate cases, but legally, how are you liable for a contract you never signed?
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:13 PM   #30
kellyb
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What? I just made the point that laws and practices vary among states, and what's prohibited or restricted in Washington isn't necessarily treated that way elsewhere. Someone tells you their bank account was seized, and you say "No, that couldn't happen." Maybe not where you live, but it's a big country.
Here's TN:
https://www.tennessee-bankruptcy.com/judgments/

Quote:
You could get a credit card judgment because of credit card debt you owe, or other kinds of judgments for medical bills or loans.

If you do not respond to the complaint, the creditor can get a default judgment. Otherwise, the creditor is able to get a judgment through a settlement that you agree to, by skipping trial with a summary judgment or by winning the case at trial.

What does this court ordered judgment mean in relation to your life? Once the creditor obtains the judgment against you, they are able to start the collection process with you. That means they can seize your bank account, take your property or possessions, or garnish your wages to help pay off the debt you owe.
Like NPR said:

Quote:
In about half the states in the country, collectors can seize 25 percent of your paycheck. In all but a handful of states, they can take everything in your bank account.
Quote:
Federal law regulating debt collection is silent on perhaps the most punishing tactic of collectors: It doesn't limit or prohibit them from cleaning out debtors' bank accounts.
Quote:
State laws, while often more comprehensive, vary significantly. Only a handful, for instance, automatically protect a minimum amount of funds in a debtor's account.
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:18 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That's actually an interesting question. When someone is unconscious, how can they consent to be treated, let alone agree to pay for the treatment? Not that I would want ERs to turn away the most desperate cases, but legally, how are you liable for a contract you never signed?
There's probably some sort of contract in the discharge paperwork. I really don't remember, though.
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:52 PM   #32
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Mexico has gov run hospitals. I as a non citizen cannot get even emergency room care unless someone shows them ability to pay on entry. Someone in the system gets in but gets the same basic care to only stabilize them as I would get.

If major surgery is required the family saves up and gets blood donors lined up and screened, The surgery is scheduled when money is deposited and blood is taken and waiting. Unless you are lucky to get into a top university hospital because you are rich.

Private clinics turn away no one. The lines are short and services basic . If your problem is big, they refer you to specialsits and paying is arranged with them. Hope is you never get a serious problem. If you do better have lots of money.


The US isn't the only place in the world where major illness and being poor is a death sentence. It could be worse. No care at all.
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:58 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
Mexico has gov run hospitals. I as a non citizen cannot get even emergency room care unless someone shows them ability to pay on entry.
What if you're walking down the street and get hit by a car, and are unconscious and bleeding profusely?

Will you just bleed to death over the course of the day and die on the side of the street?

Or if someone drops you off at an ER, do you die outside the door?
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:59 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
.....
Private clinics turn away no one. The lines are short and services basic . If your problem is big, they refer you to specialsits and paying is arranged with them. Hope is you never get a serious problem. If you do better have lots of money.


The US isn't the only place in the world where major illness and being poor is a death sentence. It could be worse. No care at all.
Does Mexico have health insurance in one form or another? Or does everyone really pay out of pocket?
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Old 10th September 2019, 09:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The question we should explore is, “Why is medicine different from any other industry?”
If you need to ask that question, I suggest you're in the wrong industry.

If you don't get service because you can't afford: (non-exhaustive list)

Petrol
Legal advice
Accountancy fees
Dentistry
Optician services
Cable TV
Electricity
Telephone
Hookers
Insurance
Internet
Vet bills...

it almost certainly won't kill you, whereas if you don't get medical help, it can prove fatal.

Those of us not in USA don't have that problem, so maybe you should look at getting the government to change the law so medical bills are paid for from taxes.

Seems to work fine everywhere else.
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Old 10th September 2019, 09:28 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I think medicine is the only profession where you can get service and not have to pay for it. People come to our office all the time, “I’m sorry, I didn’t bring my wallet today. Can I just pay my copay next time?” Or we do them the courtesy of billing their insurance first and then they make excuses as to why they can’t pay their deductible or coinsurance. This would never fly in any other industry. You can’t go to the grocery store, having not eaten in a couple days, and tell them you left your wallet at home. You can’t go to a landlord when you are broke and homeless and expect them to provide you a place to sleep and just “put it on your tab.” Didn’t pay your water bill? The city has no problem shutting off the water, thirsty kids be damned.

The question we should explore is, “Why is medicine different from any other industry?”
I would have thought that at least some of the time it's pretty obvious.

For example, when I was hit by a car while cycling and came to the hospital in a coma, they did not wait until I woke up and called to have my wallet brought in from 35 miles away before they let me in.

It's true that you can't go to the grocery store and ask for food on credit, but if you're starving you can, generally, find food somewhere, and when you can't, and starve to death, it's generally counted as a scandal and rightly so. Medicine is different from other industries at least some of the time because medical care is different from other things, in its immediacy and urgency.

This is not to say that the way medical care is handled in this country is not a mess. I think that handling medical care as if it were just another business is a terrible idea, to the extent that it already is done, and more so in what seems to be your idea.

By the way, when I was hospitalized for that accident, I had health insurance. What did my paid up health insurance pay? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! As soon as they discovered that an insured driver had hit me they not only stopped paying, but demanded return of all they had paid. I had to sue the driver's insurance company. It took three years, during which time the hospital and the rescue squad dunned me for payment, and sent my unpaid bills to a collection agency despite that fact that it was actually illegal and unethical under the circumstances (an active lawsuit in progress) to do so. My lawyer would call them and tell them this, they would back off, and a couple of months later the whole cycle would start again. As it happens, my insurance company's refusal to pay was technically illegal as well, but their response was that I could sue them for it.

Sorry if some of this has already been said, as I paused reading the thread to respond to this.
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Old 10th September 2019, 09:43 PM   #37
8enotto
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Does Mexico have health insurance in one form or another? Or does everyone really pay out of pocket?
Basic care is covered in a health care plan citizens and gov employees can opt in to. My wife is in it. Sadly it gets you into the worst facilities we have available. She uses small private clinics mostly for better services.

Major stuff comes out of pocket. The gov plan was pretty much designed to give most basic services to a maximum quantity of people on a limited budget. Socialized medicine has its limits.
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Old 10th September 2019, 10:08 PM   #38
8enotto
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
What if you're walking down the street and get hit by a car, and are unconscious and bleeding profusely?

Will you just bleed to death over the course of the day and die on the side of the street?

Or if someone drops you off at an ER, do you die outside the door?
If an ambulance brings you into the emergency room from a car crash or other type of injury you get into emergency care. Once stabilized and the family is contacted the quality of care could vary. I have not heard of anyone being left to die roadside thankfully.

Our family brought a person in and he was denied an exam at the state hospital, got him to a private clinic and he was attended, at least well enough to get back to the US where he had the cause fixed.
Just being a tourist without an immediate life threatening injury, even if serious, got him denied. That really left a few of us wondering about the oath they supposedly took.
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Old 10th September 2019, 10:32 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
If an ambulance brings you into the emergency room from a car crash or other type of injury you get into emergency care. Once stabilized and the family is contacted the quality of care could vary. I have not heard of anyone being left to die roadside thankfully.

Our family brought a person in and he was denied an exam at the state hospital, got him to a private clinic and he was attended, at least well enough to get back to the US where he had the cause fixed.
Just being a tourist without an immediate life threatening injury, even if serious, got him denied. That really left a few of us wondering about the oath they supposedly took.
But citizens will always at least get the exam and a tiny bit of care at the ER?
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Old 10th September 2019, 10:44 PM   #40
Bob001
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
...
By the way, when I was hospitalized for that accident, I had health insurance. What did my paid up health insurance pay? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! As soon as they discovered that an insured driver had hit me they not only stopped paying, but demanded return of all they had paid. I had to sue the driver's insurance company. It took three years, during which time the hospital and the rescue squad dunned me for payment, and sent my unpaid bills to a collection agency despite that fact that it was actually illegal and unethical under the circumstances (an active lawsuit in progress) to do so. My lawyer would call them and tell them this, they would back off, and a couple of months later the whole cycle would start again. As it happens, my insurance company's refusal to pay was technically illegal as well, but their response was that I could sue them for it.
Shouldn't your insurer have paid your bills and then sued the driver's insurance company themselves? Thousands of people get hurt in traffic accidents every day. It's hard to believe that what happened to you is standard practice.
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