The Trump Presidency: Part 17

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phiwum

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phiwum
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bruto said:
The only link I see on that page leads to the memo, and the notation that the memo is not the transcript.
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There is no transcript for such phone calls because they are not recorded. This has been policy since 1974. (I've read a lot of articles recently and can't point immediately to my source on this, but I believe it was a Post article I read this morning.)

This memo, presuming it has not been edited and that the ellipses aren't hiding anything important, is as good as there is.

This is a continuation from Part 16, which has been closed for length. Posts from previous parts may be freely quoted here.
Posted By: KMortis
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
there is no real transcript.

there is a memo of people present's recall of the conversation from notes they made. There is no way to know how accurate it is and how many gaps there are.


This alone probably violates Record Keeping obligations.
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If so, every president since 1974 is in similar violation (at least those who served under the current record keeping obligations).

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...nearly-verbatim-not-exact-heres-how-it-works/ (This article says mid-1970s, not 1974 exactly. It's not the article I previously read, but I couldn't find that one.)
 
It was discussed in the previous thread why Trump chose to release the complaint.

Let's not forget that it was never legally up to Trump whether or not to release it. Trump and his cronies broke the law by witholding it.
 
phiwum said:
If so, every president since 1974 is in similar violation (at least those who served under the current record keeping obligations).

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...nearly-verbatim-not-exact-heres-how-it-works/ (This article says mid-1970s, not 1974 exactly. It's not the article I previously read, but I couldn't find that one.)
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I believe the president should have executive privilege to have private conversations, but of course that's just one of the reasons why the office requires someone of the highest integrity. Trump only released the transcript because he knew that it was much less damaging than the whistleblower complaint, which Congress had every legal right to receive. Trying to make the best of a bad situation, Trump and his bootlickers will try to make that one call, in isolation, the issue and keep insisting that since Trump didn't explicitly say he would release the aid money if Zelensky started the investigations, then he's in the clear.

You don't have to be stupid to be a trumper, but it helps.
 
If the released transcript isn't the one stored by the White House, it means that it is the one leaked to the Whistle blower.
 
uke2se said:
It was discussed in the previous thread why Trump chose to release the complaint.

Let's not forget that it was never legally up to Trump whether or not to release it. Trump and his cronies broke the law by witholding it.
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I don't believe that is all that clear.

The Justice Department has wide latitude to interpret the requirements of such laws and told the DNI that the whistleblower law didn't apply here. The DNI is bound to follow their advice.

Whether Justice came to the right conclusion may be debatable, but there's an argument that the whistleblower law was for finding issues in the intelligence community and the president isn't part of that community. There's an argument to be had there.
 
phiwum said:
I don't believe that is all that clear.

The Justice Department has wide latitude to interpret the requirements of such laws and told the DNI that the whistleblower law didn't apply here. The DNI is bound to follow their advice.

Whether Justice came to the right conclusion may be debatable, but there's an argument that the whistleblower law was for finding issues in the intelligence community and the president isn't part of that community. There's an argument to be had there.
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No there is not argument to be had. That the person having the whistle blown on them isn't the one who gets to decide if the whistle blowing is valid or not isn't some minor, debatable side detail. It's the point.

Whistle Blower complaints against the DNI have to go to Congress isn't a suggestion or a best practice or unspoken Gentleman's agreement.
 
phiwum said:
Is that tweet what you meant to cite? It doesn't say that there was a transcript aside from the "rough transcript" we've received.
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The whistle blower 9 page memo says there is a word for word transcript which has been put onto a database for code word level documents. Further, that there are other such transcripts of other problematic calls not related to Ukraine.
 
“Congress, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 transcripts that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by the voters.”
 
phiwum said:
I don't believe that is all that clear.

The Justice Department has wide latitude to interpret the requirements of such laws and told the DNI that the whistleblower law didn't apply here. The DNI is bound to follow their advice.

Whether Justice came to the right conclusion may be debatable, but there's an argument that the whistleblower law was for finding issues in the intelligence community and the president isn't part of that community. There's an argument to be had there.
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The complaint alleges that the POSOTUS abused power by using Intelligence Department servers to hide politically messy information.
That is not only criminal, but outright despotic.
 
Overshadowed by all the Ukraine/Biden stuff, there have been a few other things happening.

The U.S. almost had a HUGE meltdown with its postal system:

From: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/25/un-universal-postal-union-mail-deal-trump
The UN agency linking postal systems worldwide has agreed to reform its fee structure under a proposal by the United States that averted the Trump administration’s threat to leave the global network but may mean many consumers pay more.

The agency basically coordinates mail between countries, so that if you mail something from one country to another, the postage is accepted and the package is moved around. The problem is that the fees for shipping stuff were based on the economic situation from decades ago (when China was much less successful.) Thus, there were accusations that the U.S. was "subsidizing" stuff mailed from china.

The problem is, the Trump administration was engaging in some dangerous brinkmanship... pullout out of the organization would mean the U.S. was largely isolated... mail in or out of the country might not be accepted (unless the U.S. arranged bilateral deals with each country it wanted to exchange mail with.)
 
Another Trump scandal that might have been mentioned already but has gotten waaaaaay too little coverage:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...airo-sulzberger-walsh-fake-news-a9117721.html

Egypt wanted to arrest a NYT journalist. The NYT asked the State Department to intervene, but Trump made sure that the US would not help the journalist against the Egyptian police state.
In the end, it took the efforts of Ireland to extract the Journalist.

Trump was probably thrilled to see a reporter from the NYT thrown in jail.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Another Trump scandal that might have been mentioned already but has gotten waaaaaay too little coverage:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...airo-sulzberger-walsh-fake-news-a9117721.html

Egypt wanted to arrest a NYT journalist. The NYT asked the State Department to intervene, but Trump made sure that the US would not help the journalist against the Egyptian police state.
In the end, it took the efforts of Ireland to extract the Journalist.

Trump was probably thrilled to see a reporter from the NYT thrown in jail.
Click to expand...

Trump probably sent them a bone saw for the journalist. Killing journalists who are enemies of the people is something he is for after all.
 
Belz... said:
Is there a single day that goes by now without a Trump scandal?
Click to expand...

Earlier this week I was thinking he's like Louis XVI in his final years, misstep after misstep in baffled rage that things weren't going his way, and everything he tried to fix it with was so hamhanded it made everything worse.

This intelligence database is the armoire de fer.

I wonder if he'll try a flight to Varennes?
 
Trump Tweets


So bad for our Country!

Joe Gooding
@joegooding
This “whistleblower” was found by the Intelligence Community IG to have a political bias against @POTUS @realDonaldTrump and supports one of his opponents in the 2020 race. You. Don’t. Say. #Hannity
 
Trump Tweets

“Is there a case for impeachment? Absolutely not! There is no high crime or misdemeanor, no crime, no extortion, no treason.” Robert Ray @FoxNews

A whistleblower with second hand information? Another Fake News Story! See what was said on the very nice, no pressure, call. Another Witch Hunt!

Adam Schiff has zero credibility. Another fantasy to hurt the Republican Party!

That, and many other reasons, is why Republicans will win North Carolina!
Judicial Watch
@JudicialWatch
Weeks after JW reported that the sheriff of North Carolina’s biggest county released numerous violent illegal immigrant criminals from custody, new federal stats reveal that the problem is statewide.
READ MORE HERE: http://jwatch.us/fkAwfD
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

“Is there a case for impeachment? Absolutely not! There is no high crime or misdemeanor, no crime, no extortion, no treason.” Robert Ray @FoxNews

A whistleblower with second hand information? Another Fake News Story! See what was said on the very nice, no pressure, call. Another Witch Hunt!

Adam Schiff has zero credibility. Another fantasy to hurt the Republican Party!

That, and many other reasons, is why Republicans will win North Carolina!
Judicial Watch
@JudicialWatch
Weeks after JW reported that the sheriff of North Carolina’s biggest county released numerous violent illegal immigrant criminals from custody, new federal stats reveal that the problem is statewide.
READ MORE HERE: http://jwatch.us/fkAwfD
Click to expand...

Looks like Donnie is scared ****less.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Earlier this week I was thinking he's like Louis XVI in his final years, misstep after misstep in baffled rage that things weren't going his way, and everything he tried to fix it with was so hamhanded it made everything worse.

This intelligence database is the armoire de fer.

I wonder if he'll try a flight to Varennes?
Click to expand...

Après le whistleblower, le déluge.
 
Trump's shooting of a homeless person on 5th Avenue has Democratic mayor De Blasio in hot water for not doing anything about the homeless problem. [/fakenews]
 
I predicted in another thread that Trump would compound his issues by improperly using his authority as POTUS to try and punish the whistleblower and/or his attorney. Seems we are inching closer and closer to it, he's already sewing the seeds for such an attack.

Looking forward to finding out that Trump sicced the DOJ on the whistleblower in a half-baked cover-up and retaliation campaign.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets


So bad for our Country!

Joe Gooding
@joegooding
This “whistleblower” was found by the Intelligence Community IG to have a political bias against @POTUS @realDonaldTrump and supports one of his opponents in the 2020 race. You. Don’t. Say. #Hannity
Click to expand...

Well, of course we can't expect a Trump supporter in his administration to expose Trump for what he is. That would be putting the country first and not being personally loyal to Trump. We can't have that now, can we?
 
Trump Tweets

Liddle’ Adam Schiff, who has worked unsuccessfully for 3 years to hurt the Republican Party and President, has just said that the Whistleblower, even though he or she only had second hand information, “is credible.” How can that be with zero info and a known bias. Democrat Scam!
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets


So bad for our Country!

Joe Gooding
@joegooding
This “whistleblower” was found by the Intelligence Community IG to have a political bias against @POTUS @realDonaldTrump and supports one of his opponents in the 2020 race. You. Don’t. Say. #Hannity
Click to expand...
I was curious who exactly this "Joe Gooding" was. Some sort of respected journalist? Long time political associate with some inside information?

Nope.... he's a blogger. Specifically, he has an anti-vaccine blog on wordpress. (And not even a well-designed blog either.)

That should tell you everything you need to know about Trump... he needs feels the need to reference someone who is an anti-science nitwit.
 
Belz... said:
Is there a single day that goes by now without a Trump scandal?
Click to expand...

Worse, is there a single day of the Trump Presidency that has gone by without his Administration committing criminal actions or endorsing criminal actions? The crap with ICE alone already has nearly the entire Presidency covered, after all. That's going beyond the constant and overt corruption, as well as the immerse number of actions that have been struck down in the courts.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

Liddle’ Adam Schiff, who has worked unsuccessfully for 3 years to hurt the Republican Party and President, has just said that the Whistleblower, even though he or she only had second hand information, “is credible.” How can that be with zero info and a known bias. Democrat Scam!
Click to expand...

Your own Inspector General found it credible, you moron.
 
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