Gee, Lindsey Graham's a Lying Hypocrite? Who'd a thunkit?

Foolmewunz

Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
Foolmewunz
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https://edition.cnn.com/videos/poli...ey-graham-russia-prank-phone-call-mh-orig.cnn

This has interesting implications so gets its own short-lived thread ('cuz it ain't gonna have legs unless Ol' Linds gets a rifle and goes postal)...

His spokeswimp has nothing better to offer then "Hey, hey! They got him!" You'd think he'd be more interested in explaining why The Carolina Chameleon was last seen on national TV a couple of days ago posturing about Trump throwing our allies into the maw of the onrushing Turkish military, yet here he is a couple of months earlier sucking up to (what he thought was) those very same Turks and expressing that the Kurds were a legitimate threat.

A) He was lying to the Turks?
B) He was lying when he was standing up to Trump?
C) He's a scumbag politician and has such a screwed up moral compass that he needs an aide to point him at the urinal lest he pee all over the sinks!

Of course, A) is a given. C is likely the most accurate, but on the odd chance that B is correct, that would bode well... for the anti-trump forces. Lindsey's got better polls than the general public sees. If he sees enough resistance to Trump's misadventures that he's willing to take a stand, even if temporarily, then the cracks in Trump's support are more apparent than they're letting on.
 
These are apparently the same Russians who prank called Boris Johnson and Elton John.

A duo of Russian pranksters with suspected links to the country’s security services managed to get through to the British foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, and held an 18-minute phone conversation with him by pretending to be the Armenian prime minister
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Happy to serve:

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/10/lindsey-graham-trump-hoax-call-043991

Wow.

They even called him a second time to follow up.
Between the calls, Graham discussed what they had talked about with Trump.
The pranksters managed to get Graham on the phone again a few days after the first call. In the second call, Graham says he met with Trump to discuss what the “defense minister” had told him. “We want a better relationship with Turkey. That’s exactly what he wants,” Graham said, referring to Trump and again urging Turkey to rethink the S-400 purchase.
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Puppycow said:
Happy to serve:

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/10/lindsey-graham-trump-hoax-call-043991

Wow.

They even called him a second time to follow up.
Between the calls, Graham discussed what they had talked about with Trump.
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Oh, this gets better and better! Donnie's probably put out a contract on Lindsey. He calls him up and thinks he's serving as a go-between and then turns on him when Trump actually follows through? Donnie'll probably forget about blaming Perry and throw the Carolina Chameleon to the right wing dogs.
 
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I think he just found a safe space to occupy. Being anti Trump on abandoning the Kurds creates the illusion that he's his own man while still opposing impeachment.
 
Graham and the rest of the GOP:
"Trump has betrayed our allies, bowed to a foreign dictator and endangered US security.
But impeaching him would be an overreaction!
 
Lindsay is modern day version of Richard Rich in "A Man For All Seasons:

And looks as if Lindsay will not even get Wales for selling his soul.
 
Lindsey is backtracking on his criticism of Trump's withdrawal of troops from Syria:

I've gotten to know him, and I find him to be a handful. I find him to be an equal-opportunity-abuser of people," Graham said. "But, at the end of the day, he can be very charming and be very gracious.
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I see Lindsey has returned to home base after a temporary detour: Trump's ass.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Lindsey's got better polls than the general public sees. If he sees enough resistance to Trump's misadventures that he's willing to take a stand, even if temporarily, then the cracks in Trump's support are more apparent than they're letting on.
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Something I read recently indicated he's not that popular in SC - but that his detractors basically think he's too liberal. Associated with McCain's activism on immigration.
 
10:15 a.m.: Lindsey Graham says impeachment is ‘a lynching in every sense’

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) defended Trump’s use of the term ‘lynching’ to describe the impeachment process.

“So yeah, this is a lynching in every sense,” Graham said at the Capitol. “This is un-American. I’ve never seen a situation in my lifetime as a lawyer where somebody’s accused of major misconduct who cannot confront the accuser, call witnesses on their behalf and have the discussion in the light of day so the public can judge.”

Graham was an impeachment manager during the Senate trial of President Bill Clinton in 1998.
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Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

South Carolinians must be so proud.
 
What Graham says about "lynching" describes the standard grand jury proceeding. Maybe as a military lawyer he didn't deal with grand juries? Because what he's saying about House deliberations is not at all unusual and he's got to know that. Did Clinton get to call witnesses during House proceedings?
 
"Gee, Lindsey Graham's a Lying Hypocrite? Who'd a thunkit?"

As someone who's long believed that all politicians are lying hypocrites to some degree, I can confidently say that not only would I have thought it, I did in fact think it.
 
theprestige said:
"Gee, Lindsey Graham's a Lying Hypocrite? Who'd a thunkit?"

As someone who's long believed that all politicians are lying hypocrites to some degree, I can confidently say that not only would I have thought it, I did in fact think it.
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All people are lying hypocrites to some degree. That is not a useful observation and is not what was intended by the subject. Surely, the OP meant that Graham is a lying hypocrite to a troubling or shameful degree.

Are you so new to reading comprehension that you didn't realize what was being said?
 
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phiwum said:
All people are lying hypocrites to some degree. That is not a useful observation and is not what was intended by the subject. Surely, the OP meant that Graham is a lying hypocrite to a troubling or shameful degree.
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Well, yeah. He's a politician. Are you so new to reading comprehension that you didn't realize what was being said?
 
theprestige said:
Well, yeah. He's a politician. Are you so new to reading comprehension that you didn't realize what was being said?
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Based on this stated belief, the rational thing to do would to be to advocate for strong system with disincentives for such behavior. Based on experience, you don't actually advocate for that, and wish for the opposite.

You are using cynicism as a dismissive rationalization.
 
theprestige said:
Well, yeah. He's a politician. Are you so new to reading comprehension that you didn't realize what was being said?
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I don't believe that all politicians lie to a shameful degree. I think that's a silly notion.

So, given that every politician is a horrible liar, I guess there's literally no point in discussing the lies of any particular pol?
 
tyr_13 said:
Based on this stated belief, the rational thing to do would to be to advocate for strong system with disincentives for such behavior. Based on experience, you don't actually advocate for that, and wish for the opposite.



You are using cynicism as a dismissive rationalization.
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I'm sorry, what reaction would you like from me?

I can do, "I'm shocked - shocked! - to find that there is lying going on here." Would that be better?

There's also, "why are you stinging me in the middle of the river?" But since I don't vote in his state, the analogy lacks a certain poetic truthiness.
 
phiwum said:
I don't believe that all politicians lie to a shameful degree. I think that's a silly notion.
So, given that every politician is a horrible liar, I guess there's literally no point in discussing the lies of any particular pol?
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Exactly! It is a meaningless cop out to justify horrible, egregious, despicable, even dangerous lies by a given politician by stating "all politicians lie." All people lie to some extent and no doubt politicians find themselves more seduced by the usefulness of lying than others. But some, perhaps many, do it by primarily by spinning or downplaying some awkward facts rather than making up outright lies from whole cloth. Or relatively infrequently. Or perhaps by over-stating or selective choosing of one set of facts over another. Modest mis-truths that perhaps seek to tilt one's interpretation of a fact but are still rooted in reality. Whereas the OP is referring a a specific politician whose lying is, IMO and I believe by any objective test, an entirely different level! Lies that ignore reality completely. Horrible, egregious, despicable and often dangerous lies that are in fact insults to the audience's intelligence and to the very concept of what the facts truly are. Over the top astonishing lies that are so clearly cravely politically motivated as to be way beyond the pale.

This idea "all politicians lie" is comparable to, in a discussion of arsonists, saying "well don't we are start fires?" Barbecues are not the same as burning down buildings.
 
tyr_13 said:
Based on this stated belief, the rational thing to do would to be to advocate for strong system with disincentives for such behavior. Based on experience, you don't actually advocate for that, and wish for the opposite.

You are using cynicism as a dismissive rationalization.
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And there are degrees of lying and hypocrisy.
Graham is off the charts, basically. He showed before Trump got the nomination he knew exactly what Trump was, yet the instant he was elected Graham begun a spectical of butt kissing unparalleled in US Political History. Just plain disgusting.
I repeat, he is just like Richard Rich in "A Man For All Seasons" except he did not even get Wales in return for his soul.
 
Giordano said:
Exactly! It is a meaningless cop out to justify horrible, egregious, despicable, even dangerous lies by a given politician by stating "all politicians lie." All people lie to some extent and no doubt politicians find themselves more seduced by the usefulness of lying than others. But some, perhaps many, do it by primarily by spinning or downplaying some awkward facts rather than making up outright lies from whole cloth. Or relatively infrequently. Or perhaps by over-stating or selective choosing of one set of facts over another. Modest mis-truths that perhaps seek to tilt one's interpretation of a fact but are still rooted in reality. Whereas the OP is referring a a specific politician whose lying is, IMO and I believe by any objective test, an entirely different level! Lies that ignore reality completely. Horrible, egregious, despicable and often dangerous lies that are in fact insults to the audience's intelligence and to the very concept of what the facts truly are. Over the top astonishing lies that are so clearly cravely politically motivated as to be way beyond the pale.

This idea "all politicians lie" is comparable to, in a discussion of arsonists, saying "well don't we are start fires?" Barbecues are not the same as burning down buildings.
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I'll bet that you were thinking of Trump when you wrote this. The topic is Graham.
 
theprestige said:
I'm sorry, what reaction would you like from me?

I can do, "I'm shocked - shocked! - to find that there is lying going on here." Would that be better?

There's also, "why are you stinging me in the middle of the river?" But since I don't vote in his state, the analogy lacks a certain poetic truthiness.
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Would I like? Well that's an entire range of possibilities.

My objection was to the dismissive rationalization. You could have, you know, just not done that. You could do as I said was the rational course of action if your stated belief was true. You could at least threaten consequences for the bad behavior so others whose districts you do live in might believe they shouldn't behave that way.

You're clever. You could come up with more I'm sure. But you're instead turning that cleverness towards rationalizing your own behavior, and if studying other woowoo has taught me that this is a hell of a human drive. Hopefully you'll get past it eventually.
 
theprestige said:
"Gee, Lindsey Graham's a Lying Hypocrite? Who'd a thunkit?"

As someone who's long believed that all politicians are lying hypocrites to some degree, I can confidently say that not only would I have thought it, I did in fact think it.
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Do you restrict that judgment to politicians?

Are you equally unsurprised by the lies of our "businessman" president? Thinking, perhaps, that all businessmen are lying hypocrites ?
 
tyr_13 said:
Would I like? Well that's an entire range of possibilities.

My objection was to the dismissive rationalization. You could have, you know, just not done that. You could do as I said was the rational course of action if your stated belief was true. You could at least threaten consequences for the bad behavior so others whose districts you do live in might believe they shouldn't behave that way.

You're clever. You could come up with more I'm sure. But you're instead turning that cleverness towards rationalizing your own behavior, and if studying other woowoo has taught me that this is a hell of a human drive. Hopefully you'll get past it eventually.
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What behavior do you think I'm rationalizing?

I hope you don't think I'm trying to excuse or justify whatever shenanigans Graham is supposedly up to this time. I tried reading the OP, but it's so full of innuendo and allusions that I have no idea what it's actually talking about. The link is to a CNN video, which I'm not going to bother with. It's going to be a crappy ad-laden page with antagonistic layout and a video clip that's mostly filler and may or may not actually get to whatever point the OP is trying to make.

So I don't know if Graham has actually committed some super serious betrayal that actually demands my serious attention. But I doubt it.

Anyway, what exactly do you think I'm rationalizing, with my oh so hot "well, duh!" take on the title of the thread?
 
Giordano said:
I was thinking of Graham, but hard to ignore how many of his lies are in support of Trump's lies...
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Graham is pretty bad, but with Trump and some of his congressional defenders, he doesn't look all that bad. In normal times, I'd be more outraged.
 
phiwum said:
All people are lying hypocrites to some degree. That is not a useful observation and is not what was intended by the subject. Surely, the OP meant that Graham is a lying hypocrite to a troubling or shameful degree.

Are you so new to reading comprehension that you didn't realize what was being said?
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I don't know if you recall, but Republicans had absolutely no issue with Bill Clinton being a lying hypocrite, back in the 90s. It wasn't a problem for them at all...
 
Belz... said:
I don't know if you recall, but Republicans had absolutely no issue with Bill Clinton being a lying hypocrite, back in the 90s. It wasn't a problem for them at all...
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Exactly, and they'd never countenance having a multi-year investigation into a sitting President without having a watertight case beforehand. :rolleyes:
 
Graham looks like a complete idiot after Trump stabbed him in the back with his complete sell out to Putin and Erdogan in Syria today.
He keeps on fooling himself he can somehow control and steer Trump if keeps in Trump's good graces. That is probably his self justification for what he is doing.
 
theprestige said:
What behavior do you think I'm rationalizing?

I hope you don't think I'm trying to excuse or justify whatever shenanigans Graham is supposedly up to this time. I tried reading the OP, but it's so full of innuendo and allusions that I have no idea what it's actually talking about. The link is to a CNN video, which I'm not going to bother with. It's going to be a crappy ad-laden page with antagonistic layout and a video clip that's mostly filler and may or may not actually get to whatever point the OP is trying to make.

So I don't know if Graham has actually committed some super serious betrayal that actually demands my serious attention. But I doubt it.

Anyway, what exactly do you think I'm rationalizing, with my oh so hot "well, duh!" take on the title of the thread?
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Extreme lying hypocrisy.

I over-estimated the depth of your argument. Does your rationalization comfort at least you? Graham's action was telling someone he thought was the minister of defense for Turkey things about the Kurds which are not only not true, but also opposed to what he was telling the US public. His 'principled stand' up to Trump was cheap enough to him for him to drop it talking to someone who he thought could actually do something about it.

Do you know what Graham's actual position on the Kurds is? How would you now know?
 
I think the only thing Graham believes in is getting Graham reelected.
Once again, he is Richard Rich in "Man For All Seasons" who will do anything to advance his career.
"To gain the world and lose your soul is a bad bargain, Richard....but for Wales?".
 
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