Do you believe that Trump committed a "high crime or misdemeanor"?

Did Trump commit an "impeachable" offense?

  • No, he did absolutely nothing wrong. He's the 2nd coming of Jesus.

    Votes: 2 2.7%

  • He may have made mistakes, but it doesn't rise to the level of impeachment.

    Votes: 3 4.1%

  • It's unfortunate, but he did.

    Votes: 9 12.3%

  • Hell yes. Way too many to count.

    Votes: 59 80.8%
  • Total voters
    73

acbytesla

Penultimate Amazing
acbytesla
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
38,209
I posted this earlier and intended to include a poll. Given what you know about President Trump's presidency, do you believe he committed what the founders labeled a "high crime and ir misdemeanor"?

Whether his use of his properties constitutes a violation of the "phony Emoluments clause".
Or the facts laid out in the Mueller case regarding Russia. Or if stonewalling Congress and the courts is a clear case of Obstruction. Or extorting Ukraine with authorized military aid to damage political opponents to aid gis own campaign.

Please answer what you believe and why.
 
Did he or didn't he? My belief means nothing, and I try not to use that word. If he did and it can be proven then I will know he did.

It would not surprise me if he did.
 
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Given that "high crimes and misdemeanors" are not clearly defined in US law, that's a difficult question. Unless a legal person is going to set that definition straight?

I suspect because he has breached the Emoluments Clause so obviously and constantly, and has admitted frankly he has done so, that alone should be enough to bring some sort of legal handbrake or ejection process forward as a matter of urgency.

To use a current metaphor, he has used corked bat every time at the plate, everyone and the umpire has seen him do it, he has profited by it and has openly admitted he has done so then lied that he hasn't. Repeatedly. So perhaps it is time he stopped complaining when the umpires threaten to throw him out of the game, even though they should have done that the first time it happened.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Given that "high crimes and misdemeanors" are not clearly defined in US law, that's a difficult question. Unless a legal person is going to set that definition straight?

I suspect because he has breached the Emoluments Clause so obviously and constantly, and has admitted frankly he has done so, that alone should be enough to bring some sort of legal handbrake or ejection process forward as a matter of urgency.

To use a current metaphor, he has used corked bat every time at the plate, everyone and the umpire has seen him do it, he has profited by it and has openly admitted he has done so then lied that he hasn't. Repeatedly. So perhaps it is time he stopped complaining when the umpires threaten to throw him out of the game, even though they should have done that the first time it happened.
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It really isn't a difficult question. Above all, it amounts to whether you believe Trump and his administration has engaged in corruption or abused the power of their office to the point where removal of office is the proper remedy/punishment. It can be reasonably determined that a President committed a crime, but that crime doesn't rise to the level of impeachment
 
It would be easier to list the legal things he's done.
 
I voted for the last option (too many to count), but would have preferred a preceding option to have been interjected; a great many impeachable offenses.

I'm pretty certain Trump will be impeached, but fear that the gelatinous lickspittles comprising most of the GOP Senatorial body will adopt the "it was bad but undeserving of removal" stance. Such a silken wrist-slap would only embolden the orange fungus to new heights of abuse. If the sack of rotting yams then managed to win next year, he would be unconscionable to a degree we have not glimpsed, and perhaps not well imagined.
 
Lurch said:
I voted for the last option (too many to count), but would have preferred a preceding option to have been interjected; a great many impeachable offenses.

I'm pretty certain Trump will be impeached, but fear that the gelatinous lickspittles comprising most of the GOP Senatorial body will adopt the "it was bad but undeserving of removal" stance. Such a silken wrist-slap would only embolden the orange fungus to new heights of abuse. If the sack of rotting yams then managed to win next year, he would be unconscionable to a degree we have not glimpsed, and perhaps not well imagined.
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That's the general consensus. It makes all the sense too. And yet I have a funny feeling that more shoes are going to drop and that continuing to support Trump may become untenable. I just read a poll that 55 percent of America supports not only impeachment but Trump's removal and only 26 percent that oppose it. 66 percent of the US is against Republican stonewalling.

Now, I absolutely believe the Democrats could screw this up. But I lived through Watergate and this seems so similar it's almost spooky. Republicans stood firmly behind Nixon until the public hearings began. Now these are different times and Trump is very different. But frankly, Trump has committed far more impeachable offenses. This is going to get much uglier.
 
acbytesla said:
That's the general consensus. It makes all the sense too. And yet I have a funny feeling that more shoes are going to drop and that continuing to support Trump may become untenable. I just read a poll that 55 percent of America supports not only impeachment but Trump's removal and only 26 percent that oppose it. 66 percent of the US is against Republican stonewalling.

Now, I absolutely believe the Democrats could screw this up. But I lived through Watergate and this seems so similar it's almost spooky. Republicans stood firmly behind Nixon until the public hearings began. Now these are different times and Trump is very different. But frankly, Trump has committed far more impeachable offenses. This is going to get much uglier.
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It seems Trump hasn't got one Scooter Libby, he has a whole team of them. And himself.
 
acbytesla said:
That's the general consensus. It makes all the sense too. And yet I have a funny feeling that more shoes are going to drop and that continuing to support Trump may become untenable. I just read a poll that 55 percent of America supports not only impeachment but Trump's removal and only 26 percent that oppose it. 66 percent of the US is against Republican stonewalling.

Now, I absolutely believe the Democrats could screw this up. But I lived through Watergate and this seems so similar it's almost spooky. Republicans stood firmly behind Nixon until the public hearings began. Now these are different times and Trump is very different. But frankly, Trump has committed far more impeachable offenses. This is going to get much uglier.
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There is just this niggling thought that keeps popping into my head.

During the time of Drunky McRapeface's SCOTUS confirmation hearing, I recall either reading, watching or hearing a news article which stated that he had given an opinion a few years ago in which he expounded his thoughts that the SCOTUS decision to rule Nixon had to hand over the WH recordings to Congress (a slam dunk 8-0 decision IIRC) was wrongly decided.

I wonder if that little gem will rear its ugly head sometime soon?
 
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What I am so disappointed about is the failure of Trump's defenders in this forum to answer the question with an argument. Did President Trump violate his oath of office and commit an impeachable offense? And if you don't believe so why?

Is it OK for the President to use 490 million taxpayer dollars allocated for military aid for his own personal use? If this isn't an impeachable offense, then what would be?
 
Fidelio said:
What is this "oath" thing? It sounds like something out of a silent moving picture rather like "honor."
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Presidential Oath of Office:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States

The argument is that Trump has not done that. In fact, he has done everything in his power to ignore and undermine the US Constitution. A week ago, Trump called a clause in the Constitution "phony".
 
As the term "high crimes and misdemeanors" was used in the 1780's, absolutely. Doing anything as president that puts your own personal interests before those of the nation is a high crime.

Now, in a whole lot of scenarios people can and have argued that Trump's actions were in what he considered the best interests of the nation. Ripping families apart, deporting veterans, closing off immigration from largely muslim nations, nominating judges who don't believe in basic human rights - all of those things may be horrible, but at least there's an argument that, in the views of some, these were necessary to strengthen the country. Pressing a foreign government to investigate a political opponent? That enriches the person holding the office of president, at the very least much more so than it serves any legitimate purpose.
 
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