Simple words, difficult pronouncement? - Page 3

TragicMonkey · 6th November 2019, 07:42 AM

I wonder if my pronunciation of words is the future of English. Like I said above, I moved around a lot during my youth and watched a lot of television, so I have a generic American nonregional accent. I have many if not most of the common word mergers like Mary, merry, marry. My vowels are mostly similar. I soften most hard consonants, like changing the T in "water" to a soft D. I rush through and smooth over syllables that add complexity to words: it's "Wensday" and "Febuary". Every shortcut is taken, every complexity is simplified, and every rough bit is smoothed. The result is I speak very quickly with the least possible effort exerted. That strikes me as very American! I bet this is the trend English will follow up until it splits into entirely different languages.

GlennB · 6th November 2019, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Klee-a? I say "nuclear" exactly like the words "new clear".

Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood

Yep, me too. Glenn's from the south of England, they talk funny there.

Cor blimey guvn'r, strike a light and no mistake! We talks proper, we does.

Mr Cholmondley Warner and a short film about that Mr Hitler (who, as it happens, was born a cockney) :

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

arthwollipot · 6th November 2019, 07:34 PM

I'm Australian. I say "New Klee Ya"

Trebuchet · 6th November 2019, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I'm Australian. I say "New Klee Ya"

And how do you say "Australian"?

arthwollipot · 6th November 2019, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

And how do you say "Australian"?

"Uh Stray Yn"

quadraginta · 6th November 2019, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by jadebox

The one that I notice often is in military shows when a character speaks about "ordinance disposal" or that the "ordinance" will explode. It happens in NCIS about once or twice a season.

But, that may be a case of using the wrong word instead of mispronouncing.

To be fair, it could also be a matter of mishearing. The distinction between the two can be difficult to articulate, and the threshold between not pronouncing it properly and not hearing it properly is pretty slim.

quadraginta · 6th November 2019, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

The thread title is literally killing me. It's pronunciation. Pronouncement is something else entirely.

Yes. Thank you.

quadraginta · 6th November 2019, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I was rewatching Star Trek TNG and noticed that Worf pronounces the O in "sensors" where every other actor pronounces the word like "sensers". As it's a sci-fi word for things that don't yet exist I doubt either is the authoritatively correct way, but it is weird and now I can't un-notice it when it comes up. He says it so clearly it sounds like he's trying to correct the other characters!

Perhaps the particular type of sensors being referred to in the TV show don't exist yet, but the usage of "sensors" as devices has been around for quite some time. No reason Worf should be the only one who pronounces it properly. The others are just slurring it.

quadraginta · 6th November 2019, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

I did a production of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof where every actor spoke with a southern accent, but no two spoke with the same southern accent.

In Atlanta, were you?

Kidding aside, southern accents by actors always tickle me. To start off with there are quite a few more variants than most people realize, which is lucky for the actors, since most of them don't know any southern accent properly, and get by on some sort of generic version that only barely sounds much like any of the real ones.

Tougher still for the actors with actual southern roots, who get cast in a part where they must needs play a character from some other part of the south than where they were raised. This usually isn't noticed by anyone who isn't from the south themselves and can only hear 'southern', but not any variations of inflection or dialect, but it can really stand out for someone who is.

Cheetah · 6th November 2019, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

"Uh Stray Yn"

Ha, ha, haaa.....

dann · 7th November 2019, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I'm Australian. I say "New Klee Ya"

What happened to Nucular?

arthwollipot · 7th November 2019, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by dann

What happened to Nucular?

Last posted in 2015 by the look of it.

Roboramma · 7th November 2019, 05:47 AM

It's sort of off topic, but this thread reminded me of a period in my life when I started becoming more social and trying to talk more with people I wasn't that familiar with. Having been very shy for most of my life, it was a little difficult for me, and I started to stutter. It's odd because I didn't mind and actually felt good about it because while I was stuttering, at least I was speaking. It wasn't a horrible stutter, but it was certainly noticeable.

That lasted for about 2 years, I think. It was more than ten years ago, so hard to remember exactly.

Robin · 7th November 2019, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

"Uh Stray Yn"

As an immigrant I have always found it strange the those who leave the "Uh!" off are regarded as common by those who pronounce the "Uh!"

Also, listening to radio traffic reports I wondered could there really be a road in the Northern Beaches of Sydney called "Wanker's Parkway".

alfaniner · 7th November 2019, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

And how do you say "Australian"?

"Bee-uh."

Robin · 7th November 2019, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

As an immigrant I have always found it strange the those who leave the "Uh!" off are regarded as common by those who pronounce the "Uh!"

Also, listening to radio traffic reports I wondered could there really be a road in the Northern Beaches of Sydney called "Wanker's Parkway".

When my son was in primary school he had to fill out a sheet about Australian tourist destinations. He asked for advice on what to put down for "Name a prominent Australian natural feature which is a popular tourist destination" and wrote down the response "Esroc".

Professor Afferbeck Lauder lives again.

Dr. Keith · 7th November 2019, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

The thread title is literally killing me. It's pronunciation. Pronouncement is something else entirely.

It is my favorite thing about this thread. I can't even read it. I love it.

jadebox · 7th November 2019, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

To be fair, it could also be a matter of mishearing. The distinction between the two can be difficult to articulate, and the threshold between not pronouncing it properly and not hearing it properly is pretty slim.

I've attached a screen capture from an episode of NCIS. :-)

alfaniner · 7th November 2019, 08:32 AM

I've been mulling over the thread title. I did prefer "pronouncement" over "pronunciation", but I think a better word may be "enunciation"?

Greebo · 7th November 2019, 08:52 AM

No one's mentioned "molybdenum" yet - I just end up mumbling when trying to say it. It does come into everyday speech so often for me

Trebuchet · 7th November 2019, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Greebo

No one's mentioned "molybdenum" yet - I just end up mumbling when trying to say it. It does come into everyday speech so often for me

"Moly". As in "MolyDiSulfide".

I applaud ThePrestige's use of "literally" in his post about the thread title.

quadraginta · 7th November 2019, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by jadebox

I've attached a screen capture from an episode of NCIS. :-)

Pretty sure that isn't a pronunciation issue.

arthwollipot · 7th November 2019, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

"Bee-uh."

I say "beer" more like Beeeh. One syllable, not two.

Steve · 7th November 2019, 09:53 PM

We recently spent a very pleasant day in Bah Hah Bah, Maine.

ahhell · 8th November 2019, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I say "beer" more like Beeeh. One syllable, not two.

Wait, I thought you pronounced beer, "fosters"?

alfaniner · 8th November 2019, 08:11 AM

Changing the name of one of the most popular lakes in the area from Lake Calhoun to its original Dakota name Bde Maka Ska met with some resistance.

Nobody still knows where the accented syllables are supposed to be.

gabeygoat · 9th November 2019, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

"Rural". The "rur" trips me up most of the time. It was a running joke in my college history classes that I'd substitute "non-urban" for "rural" whenever I needed to use the word, which comes up a lot in medieval history discussions.

I also have trouble with the penultimate syllable of "particularly", the R and L being so close together. I don't think I have a true speech impediment, I just tend to talk too fast and stumble when I hit certain combinations of sounds.

Rural is definitely the hardest for me. And I used to do lots of appraisals in rural San Diego county

TragicMonkey · 9th November 2019, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Changing the name of one of the most popular lakes in the area from Lake Calhoun to its original Dakota name Bde Maka Ska met with some resistance.

Nobody still knows where the accented syllables are supposed to be.

I always wonder when people want to change place names to earlier versions why they don't translate them. "We're undoing colonial imperialism by restoring the name of Lake Whiteman to Yamotahominagashaw! Which means 'Deer Lake'." "So, why not name it 'Deer Lake'?" The people who named it were trying to convey it's a lake with deer, they weren't committing to a particular set of syllables regardless of whether anybody knew their meaning.

quadraginta · 9th November 2019, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I always wonder when people want to change place names to earlier versions why they don't translate them. "We're undoing colonial imperialism by restoring the name of Lake Whiteman to Yamotahominagashaw! Which means 'Deer Lake'." "So, why not name it 'Deer Lake'?" The people who named it were trying to convey it's a lake with deer, they weren't committing to a particular set of syllables regardless of whether anybody knew their meaning.

"Monongahela" meant "river of muddy banks". I think that "Monongahela River" sounds nicer, even if the other is more descriptive.

jadebox · 9th November 2019, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

Pretty sure that isn't a pronunciation issue.

Yes. It is also evidence, however, that NCIS's issue is using the wrong word rather than mispronouncing it.

Trebuchet · 9th November 2019, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Changing the name of one of the most popular lakes in the area from Lake Calhoun to its original Dakota name Bde Maka Ska met with some resistance.

Nobody still knows where the accented syllables are supposed to be.

Changing Mt. Rainier back to it's native name of Tacoma always gets a lot of resistance from Seattle for some reason.
Oh, and Seattle and Chief Sealth High School in that burg are both named after the same guy.

Trebuchet · 9th November 2019, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I always wonder when people want to change place names to earlier versions why they don't translate them. "We're undoing colonial imperialism by restoring the name of Lake Whiteman to Yamotahominagashaw! Which means 'Deer Lake'." "So, why not name it 'Deer Lake'?" The people who named it were trying to convey it's a lake with deer, they weren't committing to a particular set of syllables regardless of whether anybody knew their meaning.

The native name of Mt. Baker in my state is Koma Kulshan, which means something like Big Breast. Just like the Grand Tetons.

Steve · 9th November 2019, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

The native name of Mt. Baker in my state is Koma Kulshan, which means something like Big Breast. Just like the Grand Tetons.

Big Breast would be a great name for Baker. I recommend the change.

quadraginta · 10th November 2019, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by jadebox

Yes. It is also evidence, however, that NCIS's issue is using the wrong word rather than mispronouncing it.

Spell Check can be a bitch.

elgarak · 10th November 2019, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I was rewatching Star Trek TNG and noticed that Worf pronounces the O in "sensors" where every other actor pronounces the word like "sensers". As it's a sci-fi word for things that don't yet exist I doubt either is the authoritatively correct way, but it is weird and now I can't un-notice it when it comes up. He says it so clearly it sounds like he's trying to correct the other characters!

Real reason: Michael Dorn had to wear false teeth, and some pronunciations are just so to prevent his false teeth falling out.

True reason: He's a Klingon who spoke only Klingon as a small child, then he was raised by Russian Jews! Of course he has an odd pronunciation!

Minoosh · 10th November 2019, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

"Rural". The "rur" trips me up most of the time. It was a running joke in my college history classes that I'd substitute "non-urban" for "rural" whenever I needed to use the word, which comes up a lot in medieval history discussions.

Can you say "rural juror"?

TragicMonkey · 10th November 2019, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Can you say "rural juror"?

Not the "rural" part. I don't have problems with "juror"...although I naturally pronounce it "jur'r". It doesn't feel like I'm stumbling over that one, just skipping the second vowel naturally.

arthwollipot · 10th November 2019, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by ahhell

Wait, I thought you pronounced beer, "fosters"?

Yeah, that's funny every single time I hear it.

You know there's a reason why we send all that **** overseas, right?

quadraginta · 11th November 2019, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

Originally Posted by jadebox

Yes. It is also evidence, however, that NCIS's issue is using the wrong word rather than mispronouncing it.

Spell Check can be a bitch.

By coincidence, or perhaps synchronicity, over the past couple of days I have read Leviathan Wakes by James S. A. Corey, the beginning of the Expanse series and an excellent effort of hard SF.

In it I noted two examples of the word "ordinance" when the usage clearly indicated that "ordnance" was the appropriate term.

You would think that with all of the review that a major novel from a top publishing house is subject to that such an error would have been detected and removed, especially with the noticeably martial bent of the story.

Yeah, spell check's a bitch.

TragicMonkey · 11th November 2019, 06:38 AM

"Materiel" is another military word that falls to false correction these days.

6th November 2019, 07:42 AM	#81
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 58,093	I wonder if my pronunciation of words is the future of English. Like I said above, I moved around a lot during my youth and watched a lot of television, so I have a generic American nonregional accent. I have many if not most of the common word mergers like Mary, merry, marry. My vowels are mostly similar. I soften most hard consonants, like changing the T in "water" to a soft D. I rush through and smooth over syllables that add complexity to words: it's "Wensday" and "Febuary". Every shortcut is taken, every complexity is simplified, and every rough bit is smoothed. The result is I speak very quickly with the least possible effort exerted. That strikes me as very American! I bet this is the trend English will follow up until it splits into entirely different languages.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

6th November 2019, 07:34 PM	#83
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 68,816	I'm Australian. I say "New Klee Ya"
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

6th November 2019, 09:32 PM	#84
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 29,827	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I'm Australian. I say "New Klee Ya" And how do you say "Australian"?
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

6th November 2019, 10:10 PM	#85
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 68,816	Originally Posted by Trebuchet And how do you say "Australian"? "Uh Stray Yn"
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

6th November 2019, 10:36 PM	#86
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 25,947	Originally Posted by jadebox The one that I notice often is in military shows when a character speaks about "ordinance disposal" or that the "ordinance" will explode. It happens in NCIS about once or twice a season. But, that may be a case of using the wrong word instead of mispronouncing. To be fair, it could also be a matter of mishearing. The distinction between the two can be difficult to articulate, and the threshold between not pronouncing it properly and not hearing it properly is pretty slim.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

6th November 2019, 10:37 PM	#87
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 25,947	Originally Posted by theprestige The thread title is literally killing me. It's pronunciation. Pronouncement is something else entirely. Yes. Thank you.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

6th November 2019, 10:40 PM	#88
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 25,947	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I was rewatching Star Trek TNG and noticed that Worf pronounces the O in "sensors" where every other actor pronounces the word like "sensers". As it's a sci-fi word for things that don't yet exist I doubt either is the authoritatively correct way, but it is weird and now I can't un-notice it when it comes up. He says it so clearly it sounds like he's trying to correct the other characters! Perhaps the particular type of sensors being referred to in the TV show don't exist yet, but the usage of "sensors" as devices has been around for quite some time. No reason Worf should be the only one who pronounces it properly. The others are just slurring it.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

6th November 2019, 10:50 PM	#89
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 25,947	Originally Posted by Loss Leader I did a production of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof where every actor spoke with a southern accent, but no two spoke with the same southern accent. In Atlanta, were you? Kidding aside, southern accents by actors always tickle me. To start off with there are quite a few more variants than most people realize, which is lucky for the actors, since most of them don't know any southern accent properly, and get by on some sort of generic version that only barely sounds much like any of the real ones. Tougher still for the actors with actual southern roots, who get cast in a part where they must needs play a character from some other part of the south than where they were raised. This usually isn't noticed by anyone who isn't from the south themselves and can only hear 'southern', but not any variations of inflection or dialect, but it can really stand out for someone who is.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

6th November 2019, 11:17 PM	#90
Cheetah Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: South Africa Posts: 2,690	Originally Posted by arthwollipot "Uh Stray Yn" Ha, ha, haaa.....
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7th November 2019, 12:12 AM	#91
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 12,910	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I'm Australian. I say "New Klee Ya" What happened to Nucular?
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

7th November 2019, 12:22 AM	#92
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 68,816	Originally Posted by dann What happened to Nucular? Last posted in 2015 by the look of it.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

7th November 2019, 05:47 AM	#93
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 14,080	It's sort of off topic, but this thread reminded me of a period in my life when I started becoming more social and trying to talk more with people I wasn't that familiar with. Having been very shy for most of my life, it was a little difficult for me, and I started to stutter. It's odd because I didn't mind and actually felt good about it because while I was stuttering, at least I was speaking. It wasn't a horrible stutter, but it was certainly noticeable. That lasted for about 2 years, I think. It was more than ten years ago, so hard to remember exactly.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

7th November 2019, 06:28 AM	#94
Robin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,790	Originally Posted by arthwollipot "Uh Stray Yn" As an immigrant I have always found it strange the those who leave the "Uh!" off are regarded as common by those who pronounce the "Uh!" Also, listening to radio traffic reports I wondered could there really be a road in the Northern Beaches of Sydney called "Wanker's Parkway".
	__________________ The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"

7th November 2019, 06:55 AM	#95
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 24,070	Originally Posted by Trebuchet And how do you say "Australian"? "Bee-uh."
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

7th November 2019, 06:56 AM	#96
Robin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,790	Originally Posted by Robin As an immigrant I have always found it strange the those who leave the "Uh!" off are regarded as common by those who pronounce the "Uh!" Also, listening to radio traffic reports I wondered could there really be a road in the Northern Beaches of Sydney called "Wanker's Parkway". When my son was in primary school he had to fill out a sheet about Australian tourist destinations. He asked for advice on what to put down for "Name a prominent Australian natural feature which is a popular tourist destination" and wrote down the response "Esroc". Professor Afferbeck Lauder lives again.
	__________________ The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"

7th November 2019, 07:29 AM	#97
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 21,591	Originally Posted by theprestige The thread title is literally killing me. It's pronunciation. Pronouncement is something else entirely. It is my favorite thing about this thread. I can't even read it. I love it.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

7th November 2019, 08:32 AM	#99
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 24,070	I've been mulling over the thread title. I did prefer "pronouncement" over "pronunciation", but I think a better word may be "enunciation"?
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

7th November 2019, 08:52 AM	#100
Greebo Thinker Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 230	No one's mentioned "molybdenum" yet - I just end up mumbling when trying to say it. It does come into everyday speech so often for me

7th November 2019, 09:05 AM	#101
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 29,827	Originally Posted by Greebo No one's mentioned "molybdenum" yet - I just end up mumbling when trying to say it. It does come into everyday speech so often for me "Moly". As in "MolyDiSulfide". I applaud ThePrestige's use of "literally" in his post about the thread title.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

7th November 2019, 01:53 PM	#102
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 25,947	Originally Posted by jadebox I've attached a screen capture from an episode of NCIS. :-) Pretty sure that isn't a pronunciation issue.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

7th November 2019, 05:35 PM	#103
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 68,816	Originally Posted by alfaniner "Bee-uh." I say "beer" more like Beeeh. One syllable, not two.
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7th November 2019, 09:53 PM	#104
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 7,955	We recently spent a very pleasant day in Bah Hah Bah, Maine.
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8th November 2019, 07:26 AM	#105
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,221	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I say "beer" more like Beeeh. One syllable, not two. Wait, I thought you pronounced beer, "fosters"?
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,221

8th November 2019, 08:11 AM	#106
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 24,070	Changing the name of one of the most popular lakes in the area from Lake Calhoun to its original Dakota name Bde Maka Ska met with some resistance. Nobody still knows where the accented syllables are supposed to be.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

9th November 2019, 06:27 AM	#107
gabeygoat Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,270	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey "Rural". The "rur" trips me up most of the time. It was a running joke in my college history classes that I'd substitute "non-urban" for "rural" whenever I needed to use the word, which comes up a lot in medieval history discussions. I also have trouble with the penultimate syllable of "particularly", the R and L being so close together. I don't think I have a true speech impediment, I just tend to talk too fast and stumble when I hit certain combinations of sounds. Rural is definitely the hardest for me. And I used to do lots of appraisals in rural San Diego county
	__________________ "May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq

9th November 2019, 06:54 AM	#108
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 58,093	Originally Posted by alfaniner Changing the name of one of the most popular lakes in the area from Lake Calhoun to its original Dakota name Bde Maka Ska met with some resistance. Nobody still knows where the accented syllables are supposed to be. I always wonder when people want to change place names to earlier versions why they don't translate them. "We're undoing colonial imperialism by restoring the name of Lake Whiteman to Yamotahominagashaw! Which means 'Deer Lake'." "So, why not name it 'Deer Lake'?" The people who named it were trying to convey it's a lake with deer, they weren't committing to a particular set of syllables regardless of whether anybody knew their meaning.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

9th November 2019, 10:25 AM	#109
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 25,947	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I always wonder when people want to change place names to earlier versions why they don't translate them. "We're undoing colonial imperialism by restoring the name of Lake Whiteman to Yamotahominagashaw! Which means 'Deer Lake'." "So, why not name it 'Deer Lake'?" The people who named it were trying to convey it's a lake with deer, they weren't committing to a particular set of syllables regardless of whether anybody knew their meaning. "Monongahela" meant "river of muddy banks". I think that "Monongahela River" sounds nicer, even if the other is more descriptive.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

9th November 2019, 12:40 PM	#110
jadebox Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,809	Originally Posted by quadraginta Pretty sure that isn't a pronunciation issue. Yes. It is also evidence, however, that NCIS's issue is using the wrong word rather than mispronouncing it.
	Last edited by jadebox; 9th November 2019 at 12:41 PM.

9th November 2019, 12:44 PM	#111
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 29,827	Originally Posted by alfaniner Changing the name of one of the most popular lakes in the area from Lake Calhoun to its original Dakota name Bde Maka Ska met with some resistance. Nobody still knows where the accented syllables are supposed to be. Changing Mt. Rainier back to it's native name of Tacoma always gets a lot of resistance from Seattle for some reason. Oh, and Seattle and Chief Sealth High School in that burg are both named after the same guy.
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9th November 2019, 12:47 PM	#112
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 29,827	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I always wonder when people want to change place names to earlier versions why they don't translate them. "We're undoing colonial imperialism by restoring the name of Lake Whiteman to Yamotahominagashaw! Which means 'Deer Lake'." "So, why not name it 'Deer Lake'?" The people who named it were trying to convey it's a lake with deer, they weren't committing to a particular set of syllables regardless of whether anybody knew their meaning. The native name of Mt. Baker in my state is Koma Kulshan, which means something like Big Breast. Just like the Grand Tetons.
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9th November 2019, 02:23 PM	#113
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 7,955	Originally Posted by Trebuchet The native name of Mt. Baker in my state is Koma Kulshan, which means something like Big Breast. Just like the Grand Tetons. Big Breast would be a great name for Baker. I recommend the change.
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10th November 2019, 06:15 AM	#114
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 25,947	Originally Posted by jadebox Yes. It is also evidence, however, that NCIS's issue is using the wrong word rather than mispronouncing it. Spell Check can be a bitch.
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10th November 2019, 07:29 AM	#115
elgarak Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,472	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I was rewatching Star Trek TNG and noticed that Worf pronounces the O in "sensors" where every other actor pronounces the word like "sensers". As it's a sci-fi word for things that don't yet exist I doubt either is the authoritatively correct way, but it is weird and now I can't un-notice it when it comes up. He says it so clearly it sounds like he's trying to correct the other characters! Real reason: Michael Dorn had to wear false teeth, and some pronunciations are just so to prevent his false teeth falling out. True reason: He's a Klingon who spoke only Klingon as a small child, then he was raised by Russian Jews! Of course he has an odd pronunciation!
elgarak Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,472

10th November 2019, 12:43 PM	#116
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 11,808	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey "Rural". The "rur" trips me up most of the time. It was a running joke in my college history classes that I'd substitute "non-urban" for "rural" whenever I needed to use the word, which comes up a lot in medieval history discussions. Can you say "rural juror"?

10th November 2019, 03:14 PM	#117
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 58,093	Originally Posted by Minoosh Can you say "rural juror"? Not the "rural" part. I don't have problems with "juror"...although I naturally pronounce it "jur'r". It doesn't feel like I'm stumbling over that one, just skipping the second vowel naturally.
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