Canadian hockey Commentator Don Cherry in trouble for racist comments

Segnosaur

Penultimate Amazing
Segnosaur
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Canada, eh?
Wasn't sure where exactly this should go. Its about a noted hockey commentator (so it could go under sports), from Canada (so it could go under the 'politics' forum) who made a racist comment (which makes it a social issue.)

Anyone familiar with Canadian hockey probably knows about Don Cherry... Former minor league player who eventually became coach of the Boston Bruins. For the past few decades he has been a commentator, appearing on a segment called "coaches corner" during the first intermission of hockey games, where he comments on various issues: highlighting the actions of certain players and criticizing others. Occasionally his commentary strays into the discussion of other social issues.

Recently, Cherry was complaining about people not wearing poppies (a symbol used to honor veterans) on remembrance day. The trouble is, he mentioned immigrants, and used the term "you people".

"You people that come here, you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey, at least you can pay a couple of bucks for poppies or something like that"

This resulted in his firing.

https://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2019/11/people-canceling-sportsnet-don-cherry/

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-don-cherry-fired-over-controversial-poppy-comment

Unfortunately, Don Cherry has allowed himself to be interviewed on Fox News by Tucker Carlson. Carlson is a noted racist, so getting interviewed by a racist over potentially racist comments seems rather counter productive. Cherry should have been more selective in what media outlets he was going to deal with.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2019/11/13/don-cherry-finds-sympathetic-ear-in-fox-news-tucker-carlson/
 
I don't think his comments were "racist". He railed against those who didn't wear or respect the poppy. I disagree with him on that but I understand his position. He took it too far when he cast that on those who came to Canada, but once again, letting him go for that looks to be an overreaction.

That said, the man's 85 and he's in no financial trouble, I think.
 
He deserved it.

Meanwhile, 'poppy fascism' has been quite a thing in the UK for some years. Heaven help any public figure that doesn't sport one coming up to 11/11 (Remembrance Day), and even ordinary folk can catch the sharp edge of someone's tongue if they're poppyless.
 
Belz... said:
I don't think his comments were "racist". He railed against those who didn't wear or respect the poppy. I disagree with him on that but I understand his position. He took it too far when he cast that on those who came to Canada, but once again, letting him go for that looks to be an overreaction.

That said, the man's 85 and he's in no financial trouble, I think.
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Reading on the history of this guy it wasn't some isolated incident, it was the straw that broke the camels back. He's made a career out of being an outspoken jackass. I read the comments on Twitter when this first happened and the bulk of them were something to the effect of "I like Don, he's a straight shooter, and tells it like it is." All fine and well, but when "telling it like it is" results in degrading people then you should expect to get in trouble.

He got what was coming to him, **** 'em.
 
Belz... said:
He took it too far when he cast that on those who came to Canada,
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Speaking as an immigrant... I think it's entirely reasonable to expect immigrants to be patriotic and supportive of their new country and respect their new country's heritage.
 
In case anyone is curious, here's the quote:

Don said:
You people love -- they come here, whatever it is -- you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey," Cherry said at the time. "The least you could pay is a couple of bucks for a poppy or something like that. These guys pay for your way of life that you enjoy in Canada. These guys pay the biggest price.
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Here's a little history of some of the things he's said over the years. He's insulted everyone from "Swedes" to people who are gay. This wasn't an individual off-the-cuff statement that caused Cherry to have to kick rocks. It's an established history of being a miserable ****.
 
Giz said:
Speaking as an immigrant... I think it's entirely reasonable to expect immigrants to be patriotic and supportive of their new country and respect their new country's heritage.
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Not that any of this is usually required of someone living in a free society, but do you have evidence that the immigrants in question are unpatriotic or disrespectful towards their new country?
 
plague311 said:
Reading on the history of this guy it wasn't some isolated incident, it was the straw that broke the camels back. He's made a career out of being an outspoken jackass.
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Being a jackass is one of the reasons people liked him. I never got the impression that he was a racist or that he hated immigrants.

Giz said:
Speaking as an immigrant... I think it's entirely reasonable to expect immigrants to be patriotic and supportive of their new country and respect their new country's heritage.
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Sure, but look: I'm a Canadian and I never wear one. It doesn't mean I don't respect those who fought for my freedoms or against tyranny. It's just that I don't think wearing a fake flower is an important demonstration of that respect.
 
johnny karate said:
Not that any of this is usually required of someone living in a free society, but do you have evidence that the immigrants in question are unpatriotic or disrespectful towards their new country?
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Sure!

They couldn't be bothered to spend 2 bucks on a poppy.
 
Giz said:
Speaking as an immigrant... I think it's entirely reasonable to expect immigrants to be patriotic and supportive of their new country and respect their new country's heritage.
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Awesome! Were there immigrants that weren't doing that? Was it becoming an issue? Does it have **** all to do with hockey? Did it need to be said on television? Were the military complaining?

Respecting heritage is nice and all but again this wasn't an isolated incident from Cherry.

Giz said:
Sure!

They couldn't be bothered to spend 2 bucks on a poppy.
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I need a link or a source to show evidence that "they" weren't buying poppy's. Thanks.
 
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Belz... said:
Being a jackass is one of the reasons people liked him. I never got the impression that he was a racist or that he hated immigrants.
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That might be true...for you. It doesn't appear that way to, apparently, several others. The show was losing money, and according to the article I posted the network got positive feedback from the canning of Cherry.

So while you might not have got that impression it would appear a large number of your countrypeople aren't in agreement.
 
plague311 said:
That might be true...for you. It doesn't appear that way to, apparently, several others. The show was losing money, and according to the article I posted the network got positive feedback from the canning of Cherry.

So while you might not have got that impression it would appear a large number of your countrypeople aren't in agreement.
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Come on, Plague. You can do better than that. "I can find a handful of people who disagree" is an argument for precisely nothing.

Respecting heritage is nice and all but again this wasn't an isolated incident from Cherry.
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Incident of what? Zealous patriotism? The horror!
 
Belz... said:
Sure, but look: I'm a Canadian and I never wear one. It doesn't mean I don't respect those who fought for my freedoms or against tyranny. It's just that I don't think wearing a fake flower is an important demonstration of that respect.
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And if the response to Cherry had been "Well Don, there are a number of ways you can be a patriotic citizen without wearing a poppy" that would have been an entirely different matter. But that doesn't seem to have been the way it was handled.
 
Giz said:
Speaking as an immigrant... I think it's entirely reasonable to expect immigrants to be patriotic and supportive of their new country and respect their new country's heritage.
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Be patriotic, supportive, and respectful is fine.

Wear this specific item or be denigrated is not.

I'm going to cloak my regressive beliefs in vague sentimentality is, sadly, par for the course any more.
 
Giz said:
Sure!

They couldn't be bothered to spend 2 bucks on a poppy.
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Sorry, but I asked for evidence that they were unpatriotic or disrespectful, not evidence of an unwillingness to engage in a hollow gesture of virtue signalling.
 
plague311 said:
I need a link or a source to show evidence that "they" weren't buying poppy's. Thanks.
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That's actually an interesting point!

Was Cherry fired for being factually inaccurate, or for saying something accurate that folks took offense at being pointed out?
 
Giz said:
And if the response to Cherry had been "Well Don, there are a number of ways you can be a patriotic citizen without wearing a poppy" that would have been an entirely different matter. But that doesn't seem to have been the way it was handled.
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You should apply for a job in the HR department at the company that fired him, and maybe next time, you'll be in a position to do just that.
 
Belz... said:
Come on, Plague. You can do better than that. "I can find a handful of people who disagree" is an argument for precisely nothing.
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In reply to an argument of "I liked him and didn't think he was racist", I'd say it's just as good as anything you've provided. All I said is it was obvious everyone didn't share your viewpoint.

You provided nothing in your statement other than you liked him, which means **** all. I provided nothing in my statement other than "other people don't agree". Did you say something I had to provide evidence to refute?

Belz... said:
Incident of what? Zealous patriotism? The horror!
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Being an outspoken douche to minorities of people including immigrants, gays, etc. Did this really need to be laid out? I posted a ******* link for Christ's sake.
 
Giz said:
That's actually an interesting point!

Was Cherry fired for being factually inaccurate, or for saying something accurate that folks took offense at being pointed out?
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My guess? Both. He had nothing to support his statement that "you people" aren't buying poppy's that people took offense to on the grounds it's both unverifiable and, since it can't be verified, is just an old man bitching at the clouds about immigrants.
 
As an American hockey fan, I thought this was an old thread.
I assumed he was sacked a few years ago.

He’s smart about hockey, sartorially magnificent, and a racist and homophobic *******.
 
Giz said:
That's actually an interesting point!

Was Cherry fired for being factually inaccurate, or for saying something accurate that folks took offense at being pointed out?
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From what I have read, there are no statistics on just what proportion of people wear poppies based on their immigration status, so there is no way to know if there is any factual basis to his claim.

Even if it was found that fewer immigrants wear poppies, that doesn't necessarily mean his comments are correct; the fact that they don't wear them may not be a case of them being less grateful to veterans, but to simple knowledge of its symbolism.
 
plague311 said:
That might be true...for you. It doesn't appear that way to, apparently, several others. The show was losing money, and according to the article I posted the network got positive feedback from the canning of Cherry.
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I guess the question is, will that "positive feedback" from firing of Cherry lead to increased revenue (through advertising dollars or more channel subscriptions).

Its possible that some of the people that are most happy with the firing of Cherry were not hockey fans to begin with, and simply knew of Cherry through his exposure in other areas of the media. "I don't like hockey, but I heard this Cherry fellow was a jerk and I'm glad he's fired. Now what channel can I watch figure skating on?"

Meanwhile one of the articles I referred to mentioned some fans planning on boycotting Sportsnet due to Cherry's firing. (Not that I expect that boycott to be particularly wide-spread or long lasting.)
 
plague311 said:
In reply to an argument of "I liked him and didn't think he was racist"
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Which is, by the way, not what I said.

I'd say it's just as good as anything you've provided.
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No, it isn't.

All I said is it was obvious everyone didn't share your viewpoint.
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But it's always true of everything. Do you go around telling everyone that other people disagree, every time they say something? What was the point of it?

You provided nothing in your statement other than you liked him
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I never said that.

Being an outspoken douche to minorities of people including immigrants, gays, etc. Did this really need to be laid out? I posted a ******* link for Christ's sake.
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I've already addressed this.
 
Belz... said:
Which is, by the way, not what I said.



No, it isn't.



But it's always true of everything. Do you go around telling everyone that other people disagree, every time they say something? What was the point of it?



I never said that.



I've already addressed this.
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LoL Christ. Whatever. I don't give a ****. Cool story bro
 
plague311 said:
LoL Christ. Whatever. I don't give a ****. Cool story bro
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...what?

Did you even bother to go back and read what I posted? I never said that I liked him. Personally I thought him insightful about Hockey, generally insufferable but entertaining. I'm not sure I'd call it liking him, but my point, which if you had bothered to read you'd know, is that his insufferable behaviour is why _MANY_ liked him, and why he was on the air for so long.

Cool story my ass. You can't even accept that you misread.
 
johnny karate said:
Not that any of this is usually required of someone living in a free society, but do you have evidence that the immigrants in question are unpatriotic or disrespectful towards their new country?
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Well they don't wear poppies! Isn't that bad enough?

</s>
 
Belz... said:
...what?

Did you even bother to go back and read what I posted? I never said that I liked him. Personally I thought him insightful about Hockey, generally insufferable but entertaining. I'm not sure I'd call it liking him, but my point, which if you had bothered to read you'd know, is that his insufferable behaviour is why _MANY_ liked him, and why he was on the air for so long.

Cool story my ass. You can't even accept that you misread.
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First off, I accept my mistakes all of the ******* time. In fact, I'd say I probably accept making mistakes more than I've seen most others here admit to their **** ups. So that's just ********, but whatever.

To the rest. Neat, enjoy your internet points.
 
From what "race" are immigrants to Canada? You can say that his comments seem anti-immigrant.

As for the poppy thing, I used to buy them on Veterans' Day, but the last time I saw a guy selling one was five years ago.
 
plague311 said:
First off, I accept my mistakes all of the ******* time. In fact, I'd say I probably accept making mistakes more than I've seen most others here admit to their **** ups. So that's just ********, but whatever.

To the rest. Neat, enjoy your internet points.
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Wow, that is really amazing. You're the one showering yourself in praise, but I'm the one trying to score internet points?

How about you read my post and see that you misread it? Then you can accept your mistake. Why does it touch a nerve so much that I tell you you've made a mistake, if you're so willing to accept them?
 
Belz... said:
Wow, that is really amazing. You're the one showering yourself in praise, but I'm the one trying to score internet points?
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Denying your accusation isn't "showering myself in praise".

Belz... said:
How about you read my post and see that you misread it? Then you can accept your mistake. Why does it touch a nerve so much that I tell you you've made a mistake, if you're so willing to accept them?
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:thumbsup: I'll get right on it.
 
plague311 said:
Denying your accusation isn't "showering myself in praise".
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Fine, then. I don't want to fight with you.

I just want you to look at the post and just admit that what you said was part of my argument was not. Is that really too much to ask, especially on a forum like this?
 
johnny karate said:
Not that any of this is usually required of someone living in a free society, but do you have evidence that the immigrants in question are unpatriotic or disrespectful towards their new country?
Click to expand...


The other thing to realize is that this is coming in the context of an effort over the last few years by right-wing propagandists to push a narrative that, not only do immigrants (specifically Muslims) not wear poppies, they are actually "offended" by them. It's the Remembrance Day version of the War on Christmas. It's complete BS, but every year for the last few years, I've seen people on Facebook re-posting memes promoting this nonsense.

So not only is Cherry stupid and wrong, he's also falling for, and promoting, extreme right-wing propaganda. And that **** needs to be called out.
 
Giz said:
That's actually an interesting point!

Was Cherry fired for being factually inaccurate, or for saying something accurate that folks took offense at being pointed out?
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Just like people tried to construe Trumps talk of Mexican immigrants as mostly rapists as some kind of racist comment when it was a minor factual mistake.
 
Horatius said:
So not only is Cherry stupid and wrong, he's also falling for, and promoting, extreme right-wing propaganda. And that **** needs to be called out.
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At least he's doubling down on it. He certainly doesn't seem to be bothered that he got fired at all.

The quote I read said that he didn't mind being fired, but he still wanted to do coach's corner; however, he couldn't do coach's corner if he had to watch what he said. Apparently coach's corner can't be bothered to have consideration of other people.
 
Brainster said:
From what "race" are immigrants to Canada? You can say that his comments seem anti-immigrant.

As for the poppy thing, I used to buy them on Veterans' Day, but the last time I saw a guy selling one was five years ago.
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Eskimos?
 
GlennB said:
He deserved it.

Meanwhile, 'poppy fascism' has been quite a thing in the UK for some years. Heaven help any public figure that doesn't sport one coming up to 11/11 (Remembrance Day), and even ordinary folk can catch the sharp edge of someone's tongue if they're poppyless.
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I think it has got better, seems that fewer people are wearing them. In regards to the media I remember when I was being interviewed on a TV news programme as I sat down in the studio, the usual faffing - bit of anti-shine on my rather high forehead, wriggling around to get the mic attached and just before it went live I had a poppy attached. I don't wear poppies and by the time I realised that was what they were attaching too late to do anything. After the segment was over I was chatting with one of the producers and asked about why poppy was pinned on me. Apparently if they didn't they knew they'd get complaints from Mrs Trellis of North Wales so they just pin one on everyone. Which I find rather disrespectful but as ever with the media, perception and reception are all that counts.
 
What kind of world are we living in if you can't go on national television and dog whistle about how immigrants are ungrateful and unworthy people and generally don't belong in our lily white society?
 
Being from Detroit, and watching him on CBC-9 since I was a kid, I am a long time Don Cherry fan.

My Dad would laugh when Cherry would make fun of the Russian Hockey players, and the Swedes ruining hockey. When highlighting a Canadian player, he would say things like "Here's a good Canadian boy finishing a check."

When Don Cherry would talk about Remembrance Day every year, My Dad would tell me about the Canadians landing with us on D-Day, and stories of the Canadian Artillery that suffered massive casualties shortly after the invasion.

Cherry is an extreme Canadian patriot, he would visit the cemeteries in France, and put the clips on Coach's Corner on Remembrance Day.

He was paid to give his opinion, it was an opinion show.
His opinion was that people who come here should show more respect to the Canadian Veterans. It seems like it would be an expected opinion from Don Cherry.

I think it has more to do with removing a thorn in the side of the liberal media, than actually removing him because he made a racist comment.
 
The continuation of this, is that a commentator from the Canadian View Show, Jessica Allen, is getting heat for suggesting that all hockey players are white bullies.

Now the ire of millions of families raised on hockey, in Canada, are demanding her firing.

#FireJessicaAllen if interested.
 
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