How can the NRSC say that if you try to sue us, then we’ll just choose arbitrator?

Ladewig · 1st December 2019, 01:03 PM

So, I’m getting unsolicited texts from the National Republican Senatorial Committee (packed with lies, but that’s another matter). I go to their website and I am reading all the fine print and I come across the claim that if there is any legal dispute, you agree to not file a class action suit and you agree to arbitration in Seattle, Washington.

If I haven’t entered into an agreement with them, how can they say that I have to use arbitration in Washington?

SezMe · 1st December 2019, 06:57 PM

Warning: IANAL

They can't. There has to be an agreement to force arbitration.

Bob001 · 2nd December 2019, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

So, I’m getting unsolicited texts from the National Republican Senatorial Committee (packed with lies, but that’s another matter). I go to their website and I am reading all the fine print and I come across the claim that if there is any legal dispute, you agree to not file a class action suit and you agree to arbitration in Seattle, Washington.

If I haven’t entered into an agreement with them, how can they say that I have to use arbitration in Washington?

Did you actually join, even inadvertently by pressing the wrong button? That's likely part of the agreement you accept when you join, just as it's often part of the terms when you open a bank account or get a credit card. Nobody can just proclaim "You can't sue me!" out of the blue.

Where is the language on their site?
https://www.nrsc.org/

theprestige · 2nd December 2019, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

So, I’m getting unsolicited texts from the National Republican Senatorial Committee (packed with lies, but that’s another matter). I go to their website and I am reading all the fine print and I come across the claim that if there is any legal dispute, you agree to not file a class action suit and you agree to arbitration in Seattle, Washington.

If I haven’t entered into an agreement with them, how can they say that I have to use arbitration in Washington?

All the fine print for what?

Suddenly · 2nd December 2019, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Did you actually join, even inadvertently by pressing the wrong button? That's likely part of the agreement you accept when you join, just as it's often part of the terms when you open a bank account or get a credit card. Nobody can just proclaim "You can't sue me!" out of the blue.

Sure you can. All sorts of businesses put up signs disclaiming liability. They aren't all that enforceable, but if someone sees it and doesn't sue it pays for itself.

The federal arbitration act can be a bummer though. We are about two supreme court decisions away from "that you didn't agree to arbitration is a matter for the arbitration process" as a holding.

Bob001 · 3rd December 2019, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Suddenly

Sure you can. All sorts of businesses put up signs disclaiming liability. They aren't all that enforceable, but if someone sees it and doesn't sue it pays for itself.

The federal arbitration act can be a bummer though. We are about two supreme court decisions away from "that you didn't agree to arbitration is a matter for the arbitration process" as a holding.

But usually that's as a condition of providing service: "If you leave your coat with us, we're not responsible for losing it;" "If you use our car wash, we're not responsible for scratching your paint." You can choose not to accept the service. And even that doesn't protect them from their gross negligence or willful misconduct. That's why I asked what the site said. It's probably something like "By using our site, you are agreeing that any dispute will be resolved through arbitration." It's still a conditional trade; you can leave the site. But I can't just send random strangers a binding notice saying "You can't sue me."

Suddenly · 3rd December 2019, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

But usually that's as a condition of providing service: "If you leave your coat with us, we're not responsible for losing it;" "If you use our car wash, we're not responsible for scratching your paint." You can choose not to accept the service. And even that doesn't protect them from their gross negligence or willful misconduct. That's why I asked what the site said. It's probably something like "By using our site, you are agreeing that any dispute will be resolved through arbitration." It's still a conditional trade; you can leave the site. But I can't just send random strangers a binding notice saying "You can't sue me."

Like I said, meaningless disclaimers of liability, or at least meaningless if you don't take them at face value.

Just that nobody has figured out a way to make a sign claiming binding arbitration applies read as snappy and natural as "swim at your own risk."

1st December 2019, 01:03 PM	#1
Ladewig I lost an avatar bet. Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 27,836	How can the NRSC say that if you try to sue us, then we’ll just choose arbitrator? So, I’m getting unsolicited texts from the National Republican Senatorial Committee (packed with lies, but that’s another matter). I go to their website and I am reading all the fine print and I come across the claim that if there is any legal dispute, you agree to not file a class action suit and you agree to arbitration in Seattle, Washington. If I haven’t entered into an agreement with them, how can they say that I have to use arbitration in Washington?
	__________________ I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.

3rd December 2019, 01:07 PM	#6
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,086	Originally Posted by Suddenly Sure you can. All sorts of businesses put up signs disclaiming liability. They aren't all that enforceable, but if someone sees it and doesn't sue it pays for itself. The federal arbitration act can be a bummer though. We are about two supreme court decisions away from "that you didn't agree to arbitration is a matter for the arbitration process" as a holding. But usually that's as a condition of providing service: "If you leave your coat with us, we're not responsible for losing it;" "If you use our car wash, we're not responsible for scratching your paint." You can choose not to accept the service. And even that doesn't protect them from their gross negligence or willful misconduct. That's why I asked what the site said. It's probably something like "By using our site, you are agreeing that any dispute will be resolved through arbitration." It's still a conditional trade; you can leave the site. But I can't just send random strangers a binding notice saying "You can't sue me."
	Last edited by Bob001; 3rd December 2019 at 01:43 PM.

1st December 2019, 06:57 PM	#2
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 24,658	Warning: IANAL They can't. There has to be an agreement to force arbitration.

2nd December 2019, 03:30 PM	#3
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,086	Originally Posted by Ladewig So, I’m getting unsolicited texts from the National Republican Senatorial Committee (packed with lies, but that’s another matter). I go to their website and I am reading all the fine print and I come across the claim that if there is any legal dispute, you agree to not file a class action suit and you agree to arbitration in Seattle, Washington. If I haven’t entered into an agreement with them, how can they say that I have to use arbitration in Washington? Did you actually join, even inadvertently by pressing the wrong button? That's likely part of the agreement you accept when you join, just as it's often part of the terms when you open a bank account or get a credit card. Nobody can just proclaim "You can't sue me!" out of the blue. Where is the language on their site? https://www.nrsc.org/

2nd December 2019, 03:42 PM	#4
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 47,715	Originally Posted by Ladewig So, I’m getting unsolicited texts from the National Republican Senatorial Committee (packed with lies, but that’s another matter). I go to their website and I am reading all the fine print and I come across the claim that if there is any legal dispute, you agree to not file a class action suit and you agree to arbitration in Seattle, Washington. If I haven’t entered into an agreement with them, how can they say that I have to use arbitration in Washington? All the fine print for what?

2nd December 2019, 04:27 PM	#5
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 4,003	Originally Posted by Bob001 Did you actually join, even inadvertently by pressing the wrong button? That's likely part of the agreement you accept when you join, just as it's often part of the terms when you open a bank account or get a credit card. Nobody can just proclaim "You can't sue me!" out of the blue. Sure you can. All sorts of businesses put up signs disclaiming liability. They aren't all that enforceable, but if someone sees it and doesn't sue it pays for itself. The federal arbitration act can be a bummer though. We are about two supreme court decisions away from "that you didn't agree to arbitration is a matter for the arbitration process" as a holding.

3rd December 2019, 03:36 PM	#7
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 4,003	Originally Posted by Bob001 But usually that's as a condition of providing service: "If you leave your coat with us, we're not responsible for losing it;" "If you use our car wash, we're not responsible for scratching your paint." You can choose not to accept the service. And even that doesn't protect them from their gross negligence or willful misconduct. That's why I asked what the site said. It's probably something like "By using our site, you are agreeing that any dispute will be resolved through arbitration." It's still a conditional trade; you can leave the site. But I can't just send random strangers a binding notice saying "You can't sue me." Like I said, meaningless disclaimers of liability, or at least meaningless if you don't take them at face value. Just that nobody has figured out a way to make a sign claiming binding arbitration applies read as snappy and natural as "swim at your own risk."