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Old 25th December 2019, 07:01 PM   #81
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That's a pet-peeve of mine that everything these days is shoehorned onto a left-right or liberal-conservative scale. You have CTers who are edgy leftists, and CTers who are far-righters who believe both that the lunar landing was fake and that Muslims have a grand, collective plan to turn Europe into a caliphate.

I get that thaiboxern are talking about Brainster and Tanabear and their views specifically, but just wanted to throw that out there.
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Old 25th December 2019, 07:16 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
That's a pet-peeve of mine that everything these days is shoehorned onto a left-right or liberal-conservative scale. You have CTers who are edgy leftists, and CTers who are far-righters who believe both that the lunar landing was fake and that Muslims have a grand, collective plan to turn Europe into a caliphate.

I get that thaiboxern are talking about Brainster and Tanabear and their views specifically, but just wanted to throw that out there.
Conspiracy theorists exist on both ends of the political spectrum, but only the Right has brought theirs into the mainstream.
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Old 25th December 2019, 07:49 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Conspiracy theorists exist on both ends of the political spectrum, but only the Right has brought theirs into the mainstream.
Yes, and that the Right has major political leaders that are perpetuating the conspiracy theories.
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Old 25th December 2019, 08:39 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I'd like to thank Brainster and Tanabear for providing real life examples of alt-right "debate" strategy.
You could paint a barn in one stroke with that brush.
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Old 25th December 2019, 09:32 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Conspiracy theorists exist on both ends of the political spectrum, but only the Right has brought theirs into the mainstream.
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Yes, and that the Right has major political leaders that are perpetuating the conspiracy theories.
Yes and yes.
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Old 25th December 2019, 11:43 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yes and yes.
That started when the Republicans knowingly started Lying and Promoting Fake easy to debunk Birtherism Conspiracy theories. If you were a Birther You obviously were part of the dumbest Conspiracy theory ever. Birtherism was founded in 2008, by a man so Racist he thought it was Impossible for Osana Bin Laden to have pulled off, 9/11/2001, because he was an Arab.
PS. Sean Hannity and 🦊 Propoganda were notified that Jerome Corsi was not only a 9/11No Planer but a Racist 9/11No Planer as well! They choose lies over truth for Money and political gain.
They Promoted and Made #Donald J. Trump President, and then wonder why he gets Impeached.
https://www.thenation.com/article/ob...story-exposed/
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Old 26th December 2019, 09:22 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Conspiracy theorists exist on both ends of the political spectrum, but only the Right has brought theirs into the mainstream.
Non-GMO foods and homeopathic "medicines" are available in mainstream grocery stores where I live. Anti-vax nonsense is pretty left-wing and lives on mainstream social media. A left-wing conspiracy theorist was on stage for two Democratic Presidential debates.
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Old 26th December 2019, 09:40 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Non-GMO foods and homeopathic "medicines" are available in mainstream grocery stores where I live. Anti-vax nonsense is pretty left-wing and lives on mainstream social media. A left-wing conspiracy theorist was on stage for two Democratic Presidential debates.
Cool.

The Republican President of the United States is a Birther, thinks climate change is a hoax, and is a big fan of a guy who claims that the Sandy Hook massacre was faked. He currently enjoys the approval of about 90% of Republicans.

But in fairness, you did get me on a technicality based on the wording of my post, which is obviously more important than the point I was making.
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Old 26th December 2019, 10:12 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Non-GMO foods and homeopathic "medicines" are available in mainstream grocery stores where I live. Anti-vax nonsense is pretty left-wing and lives on mainstream social media. A left-wing conspiracy theorist was on stage for two Democratic Presidential debates.
And that candidate got little traction, has no chance of getting the nomination.

Our (I'm American) stupid, stupid President cut his political chops as a Birther CT-ist. He gains significant support from other CT-mongers. Despite this, he retains strong support from within his party.

There are Conspiracy Theorists within the Democratic Party. The Republican Party, by contrast, is led by a Conspiracy Theorist and has promoted other Conspiracy Theorists to senior levels and cabinet positions.

The Republican Party has fully embraced Conspiracy Theories. They are the Conspiracy Theory Party, as evidenced by their support of the Birther-In-Chief.
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Old 27th December 2019, 07:25 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Non-GMO foods and homeopathic "medicines" are available in mainstream grocery stores where I live. Anti-vax nonsense is pretty left-wing and lives on mainstream social media. A left-wing conspiracy theorist was on stage for two Democratic Presidential debates.
Anti-vax is is fairly marginal and not conspicuously left wing. Many anti-vaxxers have a "god will save us" (and no doubt conservative) belief system.

The left wing is generally driven by science while many mainstream conservatives proudly support consparicies ala. The birther movement and scoff at the idea of global warming while the planet is goes down in flames. Fantastic...
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Old 27th December 2019, 07:32 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Non-GMO foods and homeopathic "medicines" are available in mainstream grocery stores where I live. Anti-vax nonsense is pretty left-wing and lives on mainstream social media.
While those have some very prominent "left wing" types enthusiastically endorsing them, they are not exclusive to the left. I mean, our Very Weak President has publicly endorsed anti-vaxx nonsense.

Quote:
A left-wing conspiracy theorist was on stage for two Democratic Presidential debates.
And she has poll numbers that would make Ron Paul drop out.
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Old 27th December 2019, 07:41 AM   #92
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Glad to see the USA Politics in the spirit of giving this holiday season. Straw men and tu quoques for everyone. Merry Christmas all!

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Old 27th December 2019, 10:05 AM   #93
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It is not a tu quoque to point out how your tu quoque doesn't apply. If anything, yours is a particularly weak attempt at a tu quoque.

Again, the Democrats do have goofy conspiracy types but the Republicans actually run on conspiracy theories. It is not an even comparison.
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Old 27th December 2019, 10:11 AM   #94
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Claim: "only the right has brought theirs [conspiracy theories] into the mainstream."
carlitos: "here are some lefty conspiracy theories that are pretty mainstream."

That is not a tu quoque. It is quite literally how you disprove a hypothesis.

ETA - The right wing in the USA is being increasingly driven by dangerous conspiracy theories, that are being driven into the mainstream by a sort of CT pipeline from the fringe. I do not dispute that point.

Last edited by carlitos; 27th December 2019 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 27th December 2019, 10:30 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Claim: "only the right has brought theirs [conspiracy theories] into the mainstream."
carlitos: "here are some lefty conspiracy theories that are pretty mainstream."
Except they aren't mainstream.

Quote:
That is not a tu quoque. It is quite literally how you disprove a hypothesis.
Just because it is a lie doesn't mean it isn't a tu quoque

Quote:
ETA - The right wing in the USA is being increasingly driven by dangerous conspiracy theories, that are being driven into the mainstream by a sort of CT pipeline from the fringe. I do not dispute that point.
So then what is with the derailing? Why are you trying a false equivalency "both sides" argument?
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Old 27th December 2019, 10:44 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Except they aren't mainstream.



Just because it is a lie doesn't mean it isn't a tu quoque



So then what is with the derailing? Why are you trying a false equivalency "both sides" argument?
There is nothing false in the "both sides" analogy, just the unwillingness to accept it on the part of one entrenched in the dogma of one of those sides. In such a state, one seems to always lunges towards "but the other side......" before considering both sides have faults, and in the case of Right and Left; Both do have faults
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Old 27th December 2019, 11:13 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
There is nothing false in the "both sides" analogy, just the unwillingness to accept it on the part of one entrenched in the dogma of one of those sides. In such a state, one seems to always lunges towards "but the other side......" before considering both sides have faults, and in the case of Right and Left; Both do have faults
They do both have faults. If a couple members of group A knock over an ATM and steal the cash, while most of the members of group B regularly hold up banks and murder people in the process, both groups certainly did something wrong.

But they are not remotely on the same level.

Further the other members of group A tend to condemn the actions of those couple members knocking the ATM while the non bank robbing members of group B approve of or ignore the bank robbing and murder.
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Old 27th December 2019, 11:28 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
That started when the Republicans knowingly started Lying and Promoting Fake easy to debunk Birtherism Conspiracy theories.
It started before that. The Republican Party adopted “repetition equals reality” as a strategy in the early 90’s and they have been going farther and farther off the rails ever since.

Essentially they took the approach that it doesn’t matter if what they were saying was true or not, as long as they keep repeating it enough people will believe it to win elections. In the first iteration it was probably just supposed to be an election ploy but the todays Republicans politicians mostly grew up listening to these things and truly believe them.
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Old 27th December 2019, 11:42 AM   #99
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I recall recently some relatively prominent Republican stating something along the lines that higher education institutions should be shuttered because they breed Leftism.

To an increasing degree, those on the Right eschew higher education. Note their braying about "coastal elites", which I read as the invective of anti-intellectuals.

I know this phenomenon, having grown up among folk who were seemingly threatened by my *high school* education, complaining about "big words" and the like (even while I was in Junior High, no less!). I've gone no further than grade 11, incidentally, that being the final year in 1979 NewFoundLand. (I was "out" at 16 )
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Old 27th December 2019, 11:43 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Non-GMO foods and homeopathic "medicines" are available in mainstream grocery stores where I live.
Are you suggesting governments should step in and make it illegal for supermarkets to take advantage of these people? That seems like a “big government” thing to do, are you sure you have correctly identified the “leftists” in this scenario?
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Anti-vax nonsense is pretty left-wing and lives on mainstream social media.
Yeah because anit-vax comments don’t elicit applause in Republican Presidential debates...

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...l-retardation/
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Old 27th December 2019, 12:00 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Further the other members of group A tend to condemn the actions of those couple members knocking the ATM while the non bank robbing members of group B approve of or ignore the bank robbing and murder.
And when that is the case it definitely is false equivalence. But when you are on the wrong side, it's all you have!

It's hard being a conservative these days. Unlike liberals (who have no problem disagreeing with each other) you have to take on board whatever crazy conspiracy theories your leaders spout, excuse their deplorable behavior and agree with their every word, or risk being called a traitor to the cause. Strange that the 'party of personal freedoms' requires such unquestioning loyalty, unlike those communists on the other side!
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Old 27th December 2019, 12:17 PM   #102
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In this thread I believe we should eschew sarcasm and appeals to irony and simply discuss the obvious: we don't need to pretend that there are two equal sides in US politics. There is one side that adheres to facts, attempts to learn from history and tries for the most part to work towards a better life for all people (that would be the Democrats and those aligned with them), and then there's the other side who doesn't do any of that.

We don't have to list all the ways the Republicans have lost their ways, or how they have aligned themselves with right wing extremists and Nazis, or how they have abandoned policy for simple lies. All of this is undeniable fact.

This thread is, specifically, about how to counter the rhetorical tactics used by those who adhere to the fascist right. We have several examples of those tactics used in this thread by people who are attempting to white-wash the alt-right or shift blame onto 'leftists'. We do not gain anything by engaging with these people. They should be ignored and their malignant ideology talked about only in the context of how it can be defeated.
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Old 27th December 2019, 12:21 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
I recall recently some relatively prominent Republican stating something along the lines that higher education institutions should be shuttered because they breed Leftism.
That was social conservatives among Dems and Reps in the South trying to fight desegregation. Since Dems were the more dominate party in the south at that time, you'll probably find way more Democratic politicians saying things like that.

Quote:
To an increasing degree, those on the Right eschew higher education. Note their braying about "coastal elites", which I read as the invective of anti-intellectuals.
Which is weird considering how many of them come from these institutions and how these institutions fall over trying to accommodate them.

Quote:
I know this phenomenon, having grown up among folk who were seemingly threatened by my *high school* education, complaining about "big words" and the like (even while I was in Junior High, no less!). I've gone no further than grade 11, incidentally, that being the final year in 1979 NewFoundLand. (I was "out" at 16 )
Ya, I've had people tell me off for using big words and trying to sound smarter than them and then I hear them telling their kids how they have to study and get good grades.
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Old 27th December 2019, 12:50 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
I recall recently some relatively prominent Republican stating something along the lines that higher education institutions should be shuttered because they breed Leftism.

To an increasing degree, those on the Right eschew higher education. Note their braying about "coastal elites", which I read as the invective of anti-intellectuals.

I know this phenomenon, having grown up among folk who were seemingly threatened by my *high school* education, complaining about "big words" and the like (even while I was in Junior High, no less!). I've gone no further than grade 11, incidentally, that being the final year in 1979 NewFoundLand. (I was "out" at 16 )
Speaking as an outsider, I guess it's also the good old "us vs them" mentality, where people are sceptical of whoever acts or speaks differently from them, especially if they belong to the same group or clique and are therefore expected to follow their norms?

Just asking because I'm reminded of the paragraph in Michelle Obama's autobiography where, because she is raised by parents who teach her to not, for example, use contractions too much, and say for example "I'm not" instead of "I ain't", which leads one of her peers to confront her on the playground:

“At one point one of the girls, a second, third, or fourth cousin of mine, gave me a sideways look and said, just a touch hotly, ‘How come you talk like a white girl?'”.

“The question was pointed, meant as an insult or challenge, but it also came from an earnest place. It held a kernel that was confusing for both of us. We seemed to be related but of two different worlds.”



I can definitely see an anti-intellectual side to it, too, though. Is it the same mentality that causes people to put "experts" in scare quotes?
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Old 27th December 2019, 12:54 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Are you suggesting governments should step in and make it illegal for supermarkets to take advantage of these people? That seems like a “big government” thing to do, are you sure you have correctly identified the “leftists” in this scenario?
You know, that's a fair point. There are a ton of conservative and religious junk-medicine and supplement MLMs, for instance.

But yes, I think that I am suggesting that governments make these things illegal. I would have guessed that it was either Nixon or Ford that allowed these ridiculous things to be sold as long as they had an FDA disclaimer that they weren't making claims. But it was Clinton.
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Old 27th December 2019, 01:02 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Claim: "only the right has brought theirs [conspiracy theories] into the mainstream."
carlitos: "here are some lefty conspiracy theories that are pretty mainstream."

That is not a tu quoque. It is quite literally how you disprove a hypothesis.

ETA - The right wing in the USA is being increasingly driven by dangerous conspiracy theories, that are being driven into the mainstream by a sort of CT pipeline from the fringe. I do not dispute that point.
I agree there are plenty of left wing CTers. I have a couple of very Democratic friends who bought the whole bit in the Loose Change videos. I also have some very atheist friends who don't have a clue about science based beliefs.

But this part is a bit muddy. You speak of mainstream whereas I would refer to the difference as entrenched within the political party leaders. IOW, you don't see CTs being pushed by the Democratic members in Congress or by the Party leaders. Yet there are dozens of CTers in Congress on the GOP side and Trump is one open CTer.
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Old 27th December 2019, 01:06 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
In this thread I believe we should eschew sarcasm and appeals to irony and simply discuss the obvious: we don't need to pretend that there are two equal sides in US politics. There is one side that adheres to facts, attempts to learn from history and tries for the most part to work towards a better life for all people (that would be the Democrats and those aligned with them), and then there's the other side who doesn't do any of that.

We don't have to list all the ways the Republicans have lost their ways, or how they have aligned themselves with right wing extremists and Nazis, or how they have abandoned policy for simple lies. All of this is undeniable fact.

This thread is, specifically, about how to counter the rhetorical tactics used by those who adhere to the fascist right. We have several examples of those tactics used in this thread by people who are attempting to white-wash the alt-right or shift blame onto 'leftists'. We do not gain anything by engaging with these people. They should be ignored and their malignant ideology talked about only in the context of how it can be defeated.
This ^
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:32 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
I recall recently some relatively prominent Republican stating something along the lines that higher education institutions should be shuttered because they breed Leftism.
The politician you're referring to is Sen. Kerry Roberts (R, TN)

Quote:
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — A Republican Tennessee lawmaker says he supports getting rid of higher education because he argues it would cut off the "liberal breeding ground."

Sen. Kerry Roberts of Springfield called for eliminating higher education while speaking about attending a recent abortion legislative hearing on his conservative radio talk show on Sept. 2.

Quote:
Roberts specifically called out one activist who testified in favor of protecting abortion rights. He asserted without evidence that the woman's beliefs were a "product of higher education" and claimed that getting rid of higher education would "save America."
https://newschannel9.com/news/local/...reeding-ground
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Old 27th December 2019, 04:31 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The politician you're referring to is Sen. Kerry Roberts (R, TN)
Just to clarify, this idiot, like many lawmaker idiots, is in the State Senate, not US Senate.
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Old 27th December 2019, 07:00 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
In this thread I believe we should eschew sarcasm and appeals to irony and simply discuss the obvious: we don't need to pretend that there are two equal sides in US politics. There is one side that adheres to facts, attempts to learn from history and tries for the most part to work towards a better life for all people (that would be the Democrats and those aligned with them), and then there's the other side who doesn't do any of that.

We don't have to list all the ways the Republicans have lost their ways, or how they have aligned themselves with right wing extremists and Nazis, or how they have abandoned policy for simple lies. All of this is undeniable fact.

This thread is, specifically, about how to counter the rhetorical tactics used by those who adhere to the fascist right. We have several examples of those tactics used in this thread by people who are attempting to white-wash the alt-right or shift blame onto 'leftists'. We do not gain anything by engaging with these people. They should be ignored and their malignant ideology talked about only in the context of how it can be defeated.
Your lack of knowledge of US politics is extremely apparent.
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Old 27th December 2019, 07:29 PM   #111
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Your lack of knowledge of US politics is extremely apparent.
His observations are extremely accurate, actually. Facts and science are antithetical to Republican policies and positions. Your response to his post illustrates this very well.
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Old 27th December 2019, 08:10 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
His observations are extremely accurate, actually. Facts and science are antithetical to Republican policies and positions. Your response to his post illustrates this very well.
Co-sign.

After the neo-cons collapsed, and McCain got nowhere, I struggle to come up with a guiding philosophy for the party aside from raging white supremacism (ie. take as much money as possible from the non-white, use it to enrich the already wealthy white people, and the rest of the white people can easily be played for suckers). Set up concentration camps? We'll let private prison companies run them - and give the babies to pseudo-Cristians willing to overlook the fact that this fits the definition of genocide.

Need more voters? Just scream about Mexican invaders and Muslim/BLM terrorists! That'll gin up the racists.

Hey, how about we go back to throwing darkies in jail for weed? Bring in Jeff Sessions! Oh, and bring in the private prison companies again!

Oh, and don't forget to attack LGBT rights, the guys who think Jesus hated queers will love that!

Obama had it right - it's like the scam where one guy shows up at your front door hawking home alarms, while the other runs around back and breaks in to rob you. And people fall for it every time.
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Old 28th December 2019, 12:16 PM   #113
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Genocide? Surely you jest.
Genocide is defined in Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
(1948) as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical,
racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to
members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part1
; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and]
forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
Yes, children of a tiny minority of Middle and South Americans are by definition being transferred, and some of them will be transferred to people who happen to have a different ethnicity, but the same holds true if, for example, a kid from an African family goes into foster care because his dad beats him and he ends up in a white family. The same way, if police shoots a Vietnamese immigrant because he points a gun at them, that's "killing members of a group", but in no way genocide of Vietnamese people.

The key part of the definition is "intent to destroy (...) a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". I doubt ICE's intent fulfills this requirement.
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Old 28th December 2019, 02:36 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Genocide? Surely you jest.
Genocide is defined in Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
(1948) as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical,
racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to
members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part1
; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and]
forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
Yes, children of a tiny minority of Middle and South Americans are by definition being transferred, and some of them will be transferred to people who happen to have a different ethnicity, but the same holds true if, for example, a kid from an African family goes into foster care because his dad beats him and he ends up in a white family. The same way, if police shoots a Vietnamese immigrant because he points a gun at them, that's "killing members of a group", but in no way genocide of Vietnamese people.

The key part of the definition is "intent to destroy (...) a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". I doubt ICE's intent fulfills this requirement.
While I have doubts what's going on reaches the technical definition of genocide, I don't doubt that ICE is being used with the intent to destroy ethnical, racial or religious groups.
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Old 28th December 2019, 03:52 PM   #115
Baylor
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
His observations are extremely accurate, actually. Facts and science are antithetical to Republican policies and positions. Your response to his post illustrates this very well.
Agreeing with someone doesn't make him any less wrong. Hyperbolic, over the top characterizations is a sign someone isn't knowledgeable on the topic. Parroting Huffington Post headlines is not a substitute for constructive dialogue. It's also remarkably uninteresting.
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Old 28th December 2019, 03:55 PM   #116
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Genocide? Surely you jest.
Genocide is defined in Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
(1948) as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical,
racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to
members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part1
; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and]
forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
Yes, children of a tiny minority of Middle and South Americans are by definition being transferred, and some of them will be transferred to people who happen to have a different ethnicity, but the same holds true if, for example, a kid from an African family goes into foster care because his dad beats him and he ends up in a white family. The same way, if police shoots a Vietnamese immigrant because he points a gun at them, that's "killing members of a group", but in no way genocide of Vietnamese people.

The key part of the definition is "intent to destroy (...) a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". I doubt ICE's intent fulfills this requirement.
There was once a regime that used conspiracy theories and over-the-top stereotypes to describe its supposed enemies and political rivals. I hate the "dem da real nazees" meme but the writing is right there on the wall.
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Old 28th December 2019, 03:56 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
While I have doubts what's going on reaches the technical definition of genocide, I don't doubt that ICE is being used with the intent to destroy ethnical, racial or religious groups.
Schrödinger's Holocaust, huh?

Okay.

Last edited by Baylor; 28th December 2019 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 28th December 2019, 06:39 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
There was once a regime that used conspiracy theories and over-the-top stereotypes to describe its supposed enemies and political rivals. I hate the "dem da real nazees" meme but the writing is right there on the wall.

I get it, you're talking about the Trump administration, aren't you?
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Old 8th January 2020, 10:55 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
About the 9/11 Truthers. I always thought that once you step into the circle of whackadoodle conspiracy theories you have stepped off the liberal/conservative spectrum.
The Liberal/Conservative divide is largely a media creation. Imagine one group of people that only eats at McDonalds and another that only eats at Burger King. If someone who eats at neither starts talking about the food he enjoys eating it could be something that both the McDonalds and Burger King eaters have never heard of. They would probably dismiss the idea of there being other types food as a conspiracy theory.

Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
In this thread I believe we should eschew sarcasm and appeals to irony and simply discuss the obvious: we don't need to pretend that there are two equal sides in US politics. There is one side that adheres to facts, attempts to learn from history and tries for the most part to work towards a better life for all people (that would be the Democrats and those aligned with them), and then there's the other side who doesn't do any of that.
No, it is primarily the dissident Right that adheres to facts and seeks to understand and learn lessons from history. The dissident Right has largely been correct on every major domestic and foreign policy issue going back to the 1950s. Who was skeptical of the Great Society programs? Who was skeptical that educational reforms like busing and integration would produce wonders? Who was skeptical of our urban policy and immigration policy? Who questioned our foreign policy regarding our wars in the Middle-East since 9/11? The dissident Right.

The dissident Right are the Cassandras of American politics. Cassandra was the woman in Greek mythology who was blessed with the power of prophecy but was cursed in that no one would ever believe or listen to her. By being consistently right on all major issues the dissident Right is the least powerful and most despised political movement in the US.

Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
I recall recently some relatively prominent Republican stating something along the lines that higher education institutions should be shuttered because they breed Leftism.
They are indoctrination centers for the modern Left. Knowledge and understanding are good, indoctrination is not.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
It's hard being a conservative these days. Unlike liberals (who have no problem disagreeing with each other) you have to take on board whatever crazy conspiracy theories your leaders spout, excuse their deplorable behavior and agree with their every word, or risk being called a traitor to the cause. Strange that the 'party of personal freedoms' requires such unquestioning loyalty, unlike those communists on the other side!
It's hard to be a conservative, not because you have to go along with your leaders, but because you are under the constant threat of being deplatformed or demonetized by the high-tech commissars of Silicon Valley.
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Old 9th January 2020, 06:47 AM   #120
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You don't have to keep demonstrating the OP's point, you know. We all get it.
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