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Stuck on Arrow-Down

Trebuchet

Penultimate Amazing
Trebuchet
Joined
Nov 20, 2003
Messages
43,446
Location
Port Townsend, Washington
Please consider me as your elderly uncle and do some family IT support.

Over the past few months I've had an occasional problem on the older computer assigned by my wife to my use. I like it better anyhow.

It's a Dell laptop with Windows 7. Don't remember the model and the little sticker has fallen off. Oh, Control Panel says model N5010, whatever that means.

I'm using it with an external monitor, keyboard, and mouse. The mouse and keyboard are wireless and from Microsoft, because that's what they had at the store when I needed to replace them.

Problem: It's like I'm holding my finger on the down-arrow key. Everything goes wildly scrolling. It's been very occasional until tonight when it happened twice in a half hour. First time was solved by rebooting. I at least managed to do that, in the past it's been difficult due to the scrolling problem.
Second time I pulled out the receiver for the wireless mouse and keyboard and it stopped. That's great except I'm pretty sure I've done it before and it didn't help.
Oh, and in between both times, I pounded on the down arrow key on the wireless keyboard a couple times, because why not?
Note that the first time this evening it happened while I was near the end of a fairly long video and had not touched the either keyboard for a good half-hour.
Best guess at a cause: I eat in front of the computer. Crumbs have got into the wireless keyboard. But no other keys seem to be stuck, and I wasn't using the keyboard the first time this evening.
Second guess: Microsoft hates me, or something.

Your guess? Solutions?
Please don't say Mac or Unix, ain't gonna happen. I might consider a Chromebook. I'm too old for this crap.
 
Do you need to use the key at all? If not, I'd say just pry it off because there is probably something jammed underneath there. Of course with the Dell keyboards you will never get the key back on.

I had the same problem with my Delete key on a Dell. Not deleting but just not working. I took the key off and was able to get it to work when needed by making the connection with my finger.

If you're adventurous you could take the frame off and shake/blow all the crumbs out. I eat a lot in front of my computers as well. With this latest one I got a plastic overlay which has prevented the crumby problems.
 
Crap, just did it again! I pulled the wireless mouse/keyboard receiver and it stopped; so it's definitely there rather than on the Dell side. Pounded the keys a bit and plugged the receiver and it was fine.
I think in the past I've pulled the batteries from the mouse and keboard and it kept on for a while. Maybe the wireless receiver remembering the last state or something.
I wonder if it could be the ENTER key rather than the down arrow?
 
If you deliberately or accidently press the scroll wheel, the mouse will (in certain programs) enter scroll mode and scroll in the direction of the mouse pointer (down if the mouse pointer is in the lower half of the screen and up if it is in the upper half) The closer the pointer gets to the top or bottom edge, the faster it will scroll. You disengage it by clicking the scroll wheel again. So next time try that.
 
Hungry81 said:
If you deliberately or accidently press the scroll wheel, the mouse will (in certain programs) enter scroll mode and scroll in the direction of the mouse pointer (down if the mouse pointer is in the lower half of the screen and up if it is in the upper half) The closer the pointer gets to the top or bottom edge, the faster it will scroll. You disengage it by clicking the scroll wheel again. So next time try that.
Click to expand...
Will do.
But the first time this evening I don't think I had touched anything for quite a while.
 
I had some problems with runaway pointer using a mouse on a laptop with a trackpad. One thing you might try, if you're not using the trackpad (or other on-board pointing device like an eraserhead) is to disable that so only the mouse is working.

Also make sure the mouse batteries are good.

e.t.a. also consider a different mouse. They do go bad. My latest is a cheap "iHome" one from Big Lots, well behaved for under ten bucks.
 
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alfaniner said:
Do you need to use the key at all? If not, I'd say just pry it off because there is probably something jammed underneath there. Of course with the Dell keyboards you will never get the key back on.

I had the same problem with my Delete key on a Dell. Not deleting but just not working. I took the key off and was able to get it to work when needed by making the connection with my finger.

If you're adventurous you could take the frame off and shake/blow all the crumbs out. I eat a lot in front of my computers as well. With this latest one I got a plastic overlay which has prevented the crumby problems.
Click to expand...

This is probably the best answer in my opinion.

It's definitely the keyboard. By removing the receiver you're killing the connection to the laptop. No matter what key it is your only resolutions are to a) spray air around it to see if there's something stuck in it b) take the key off and live without it or c) take the key off, clean it, and try to put it back on. Physical devices don't leave much to the imagination.
 
The arrow key, the page down key, the end key, and the space bar can all cause this kind of behavior.. So can the mouse.

Next time, instead of pulling the shared keyboard mouse receiver, switch off the keyboard.
 
bruto said:
Also make sure the mouse batteries are good.
Click to expand...
Also check the keyboard battery. Some keyboards do get wonky when they are low on power. Keyboards send different signals to the computer when a key is pressed and when it is released; it may erroneously send a down arrow scancode as if it is pressed but fail to send a scancode for releasing the key making the computer think the down arrow is continously held down.
 
plague311 said:
It's definitely the keyboard. By removing the receiver you're killing the connection to the laptop.
Click to expand...

It's not definitely the keyboard. From the troubleshooting description, the receiver is receiving both keyboard and mouse signals.

All he's done by removing the receiver is rule out the computer itself, and narrow it down to either the mouse or the keyboard.

It's probably the keyboard, but the next step is to confirm it by interrupting only the keyboard signal and seeing the result. For completeness, the same test should also be run, interrupting only the mouse signal.
 
Something similar happened to me. Every time I'd boot up a game the cursor would make a beeline for the bottom right corner of the screen.

the amount of time it took to realise that the Xbox controller was upside down on the table with the stick being pushed was embarrassing
 
I think it's probably the keyboard as well, however on a previous occasion the problem persisted after I took the batteries out of it. I think. (It doesn't have a switch.) I wonder if the receiver has some sort of keystroke buffer in it.

This is the keyboard/mouse I'm using.

3point14 said:
Something similar happened to me. Every time I'd boot up a game the cursor would make a beeline for the bottom right corner of the screen.

the amount of time it took to realise that the Xbox controller was upside down on the table with the stick being pushed was embarrassing
Click to expand...

I've had something similar happen to me with the TV/DVR. The remote is completely symmetrical and I get ahold of it upside down.
 
Trebuchet said:
I think it's probably the keyboard as well, however on a previous occasion the problem persisted after I took the batteries out of it. I think. (It doesn't have a switch.) I wonder if the receiver has some sort of keystroke buffer in it.

This is the keyboard/mouse I'm using.



I've had something similar happen to me with the TV/DVR. The remote is completely symmetrical and I get ahold of it upside down.
Click to expand...

Good point. It might also be the receiver.
 
Trebuchet said:
...Your guess? Solutions?
Please don't say Mac or Unix, ain't gonna happen. I might consider a Chromebook. I'm too old for this crap.
Click to expand...

Good news, Trebuchet. It looks like you can install Mavericks!
Fully working!

I kid, I kid.

It doesn't sound like the keyboard unless you managed to spill some type of liquid in the vicinity of the arrow keys.* Were you touching the mouse or the keyboard when these incidents occurred?



*But even then, it would probably be doing it all the time until it dries out.
 
theprestige said:
It's not definitely the keyboard. From the troubleshooting description, the receiver is receiving both keyboard and mouse signals.
Click to expand...

I didn't see any issues with the mouse. Just the arrow-down or enter could be stuck.

theprestige said:
All he's done by removing the receiver is rule out the computer itself, and narrow it down to either the mouse or the keyboard.

It's probably the keyboard, but the next step is to confirm it by interrupting only the keyboard signal and seeing the result. For completeness, the same test should also be run, interrupting only the mouse signal.
Click to expand...

That wouldn't be my personal next troubleshooting step, but it might be best for him. I would just snag another keyboard and use it to see if I can replicate the issue.
 
I just want to point out that when people tell you "definitely the keyboard" they may not be realizing there are two keyboards in this setup.

I would try it without the external mouse and keyboard for a bit. If the problem goes away to your satisfaction, add one or the other back in and try it for a while. One note on that, if the external mouse and keyboard are part of a set, take the batteries out of one or the other for this test.

Edit: I just noticed that theprestige may have been saying what I just recommended using more technical jargon (that twenty years ago I wouldn't have understood).
 
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plague311 said:
I didn't see any issues with the mouse. Just the arrow-down or enter could be stuck.



That wouldn't be my personal next troubleshooting step, but it might be best for him. I would just snag another keyboard and use it to see if I can replicate the issue.
Click to expand...

Having recently solved a similar problem (except in this case it was a jerky mouse) I agree. Swap out the keyboard for another. The problem may just go away as my mouse problem did
 
Bump!
Just happened again, so I resolved to try one thing at a time.
Batteries out of wireless keyboard: Still stuck.
Wireless mouse/keyboard receiver out: Still stuck.
Pound on the laptop down-arrow a few times: Problem resolved.
This was first thing in the morning. I close the laptop screen at night to put it to sleep. I think it's crud in the laptop keyboard, maybe something sitting on the key when I close the screen.
And yeah, this sounds all different from the original post.
 
I'm going to assume you tried rebooting?

Also, consider a new keyboard and/or new mouse. They are very cheap.

If I had computer skills I'd reinstall the drivers but in my case a new keyboard and mouse is easier.

I thought it was a PC. I see it's a notebook. Guess I shouldn't assume Dell means desktop. You can sill use a different mouse and keyboard, (I believe), and at least see if that's where the problem is.
 
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Sounds like it's the laptop's own keyboard, though, which is not (easily) replaceable, and using an external keyboard won't fix it. Could try vacuuming or otherwise cleaning it, but it is also possible it's physically broken.
 
Laptop keys are usually quite easy to prise off and replace. I have a little notebook that's spent too much of it's life beside a degu cage and needed keys removed so little bits of alfalfa could be removed on many occassions, however crap under the keyboard tends to stop keys working on make them stick on when used rather than start spontaneously. Possibly a problem inside the switch itself making contact when it gets warm (you mentioned watching video which can be quite processor intensive). Maybe disable the laptop keyboard?

Not something I've every tried but this is a way-:

https://forums.tomsguide.com/threads/is-there-a-way-to-disable-the-laptop-keyboard-and-use-another-external-keyboard-via-usb.381431/
 
Depending on how handy you feel, you can actually remove a laptop keyboard and clean it thoroughly. It does sound like there might be a contaminant problem.

Check the manufacturer's site; quite a few will provide a maintenance manual for their computer models with instructions on how to take apart different things. The biggest issues with removing a laptop keyboard are:
1. Some laptops actually have the casing glued, although I've only seen this on a couple models
2. The laptop connects to the motherboard by a ribbon cable, which is very easy to break.

If you go this route, the tools you'll need are:
1. A clean working area
2. An anti-static wristband. A static charge too weak for you to feel can damage IC components. Always wear protection when inside a computer. An anti-static mat would also be helpful, but isn't absolutely necessary
3. Phillips screwdriver (generally, a few manufacturers use specialized screw heads, but the manual will tell you).
4. A plastic or wood pry tool (useful for separating plastic components without scratching or flipping open ribbon cable clamps)

Once you get the keyboard out, you can actually flush it under warm water (not hot) to clean it out. Just let it dry and drain thoroughly afterwards before putting it back together (at least 24 hours).

I've done this on several laptops (including one that had a spoiled "beef and mushrooms" MRE spilled on it), and I shower my desktop keyboards regularly.
 
Hellbound said:
Depending on how handy you feel, you can actually remove a laptop keyboard and clean it thoroughly. It does sound like there might be a contaminant problem.

Check the manufacturer's site; quite a few will provide a maintenance manual for their computer models with instructions on how to take apart different things. The biggest issues with removing a laptop keyboard are:
1. Some laptops actually have the casing glued, although I've only seen this on a couple models
2. The laptop connects to the motherboard by a ribbon cable, which is very easy to break.

If you go this route, the tools you'll need are:
1. A clean working area
2. An anti-static wristband. A static charge too weak for you to feel can damage IC components. Always wear protection when inside a computer. An anti-static mat would also be helpful, but isn't absolutely necessary
3. Phillips screwdriver (generally, a few manufacturers use specialized screw heads, but the manual will tell you).
4. A plastic or wood pry tool (useful for separating plastic components without scratching or flipping open ribbon cable clamps)

Once you get the keyboard out, you can actually flush it under warm water (not hot) to clean it out. Just let it dry and drain thoroughly afterwards before putting it back together (at least 24 hours).

I've done this on several laptops (including one that had a spoiled "beef and mushrooms" MRE spilled on it), and I shower my desktop keyboards regularly.
Click to expand...

To add to Hellbounds list;

Also check You Tube for instructional videos as well (although after you've checked manufacturers site)
If you don't have a decent pry tool (or the atrociously named 'spudger')a plastic knife is a fairly good substitute.
If you're willing to take the keyboard off to clean it check out e-bay for the price of replacements. Last time I was fixing up a relatives Dell a replacement keyboard was less than £8 (in postage)
Remember, worst case, you can always buy a normal USB keyboard and use that. The keyboards are normally designed to be replaced so it's hard to muck other stuff up while you're in there
 
Keyboard, Shmeeboard! Now the whole thing's dead.

Yesterday afternoon I was surfing away when suddenly everything went black and an orange light appeared on the front of the laptop. Hmm. I held down the power button to power it down, waited a couple of minutes, turned it on and it booted normally. Hmm.

That was good motivation for me to plug in the 2TB drive I got for Xmas and start backing stuff up. User directories, old data, etc. There's nothing particularly important on it anyhow. Got tired, closed the lid, and went to watch TV.

This morning I went in, raised the lid, pushed the button and...nothing. Just a blinking cursor on a black screen, after a brief Dell logo. So I'm on the newer W10 machine.

One other thing about the initial problem yesterday. This particular computer has a long history of "plugged in not charging". It did manage to charge a couple of weeks ago, but earlier in the day I had looked and the battery was at 60%. After I got it back up I looked and battery was at zero, plugged in not charging. I was suspecting that while messing with the keyboard I loosened the power cable and it ran out of battery, causing the crash.

I'm thinking that next, when I feel like messing with it, I'll unplug all external devices -- thumb drive, external disk, mouse and keyboard, even the monitor, before trying again. Perhaps I'll also unplug the power supply for a while. Maybe even pull the battery out.

Thoughts?
 
Trebuchet said:
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Try a different power cable? Perhaps it is out of power and can only show the bios screen? Definitely unplug everything. Did you successfully back everything up? How does the external drive get power?



You should have installed OSX Mavericks .... :boxedin:
 
Trebuchet said:
...
I'm thinking that next, when I feel like messing with it, I'll unplug all external devices -- thumb drive, external disk, mouse and keyboard, even the monitor, before trying again. Perhaps I'll also unplug the power supply for a while. Maybe even pull the battery out.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I once had a fix work when I pulled out the battery and just ran it on the power cord. Once I put the battery back in it worked again. But I don't think it lasted much longer after that. The machine ran fine on plug-in power from then on.
 
Hellbound said:
Depending on how handy you feel, you can actually remove a laptop keyboard and clean it thoroughly. It does sound like there might be a contaminant problem.

Check the manufacturer's site; quite a few will provide a maintenance manual for their computer models with instructions on how to take apart different things. The biggest issues with removing a laptop keyboard are:
1. Some laptops actually have the casing glued, although I've only seen this on a couple models
2. The laptop connects to the motherboard by a ribbon cable, which is very easy to break.

If you go this route, the tools you'll need are:
1. A clean working area
2. An anti-static wristband. A static charge too weak for you to feel can damage IC components. Always wear protection when inside a computer. An anti-static mat would also be helpful, but isn't absolutely necessary
3. Phillips screwdriver (generally, a few manufacturers use specialized screw heads, but the manual will tell you).
4. A plastic or wood pry tool (useful for separating plastic components without scratching or flipping open ribbon cable clamps)

Once you get the keyboard out, you can actually flush it under warm water (not hot) to clean it out. Just let it dry and drain thoroughly afterwards before putting it back together (at least 24 hours).

I've done this on several laptops (including one that had a spoiled "beef and mushrooms" MRE spilled on it), and I shower my desktop keyboards regularly.
Click to expand...

Eww.
 
Well I did what I was thinking, unplugged everything including the power cord, although I didn't remove the battery.
Let it sit for an hour or so. Plugged the power in (only) and pushed the on button. Got two white lights and an orange one for about a second, then they went off. Tried again, same thing. Wiggled the power cord, because why not, and tried a third time.
Windows resumed, picking up from where it left off last night. I checked to see if it was charging, it wasn't. I decided to give it a normal shutdown and see how it would be later, after doing some errands.
I've plugged the mouse/keyboard receiver, speakers, and monitor back in. And it's working just fine.
I hate computers.

ETA: I'm slightly suspicious of the external drive, but only slightly; since it had never been on this computer until after the initial crash. It's powered by USB.
 
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Trebuchet said:
Well I did what I was thinking, unplugged everything including the power cord, although I didn't remove the battery.
Let it sit for an hour or so. Plugged the power in (only) and pushed the on button. Got two white lights and an orange one for about a second, then they went off. Tried again, same thing. Wiggled the power cord, because why not, and tried a third time.
Windows resumed, picking up from where it left off last night. I checked to see if it was charging, it wasn't. I decided to give it a normal shutdown and see how it would be later, after doing some errands.
I've plugged the mouse/keyboard receiver, speakers, and monitor back in. And it's working just fine.
I hate computers.

ETA: I'm slightly suspicious of the external drive, but only slightly; since it had never been on this computer until after the initial crash. It's powered by USB.
Click to expand...

It might be trying to boot from your external drive and doesn't know what to do when it doesn't find an OS.

You've certainly got the right attitude - lackadaisical! "Well. I'll just shut you off for awhile rather than sitting here getting all uptight and cursing about all the files I've lost." Computers hate that!
 
Trebuchet said:
Well I did what I was thinking, unplugged everything including the power cord, although I didn't remove the battery.
Let it sit for an hour or so. Plugged the power in (only) and pushed the on button. Got two white lights and an orange one for about a second, then they went off. Tried again, same thing. Wiggled the power cord, because why not, and tried a third time.
Windows resumed, picking up from where it left off last night. I checked to see if it was charging, it wasn't. I decided to give it a normal shutdown and see how it would be later, after doing some errands.
I've plugged the mouse/keyboard receiver, speakers, and monitor back in. And it's working just fine.
I hate computers.

ETA: I'm slightly suspicious of the external drive, but only slightly; since it had never been on this computer until after the initial crash. It's powered by USB.
Click to expand...

Actually, it sounds ike problems in the power and/or charging. The light codes may very well be diagnostics; worth checking the manufacturer website. Two whites and an orange may mean something like "battery bad" or something.
 
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