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#1 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,779
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Sovereign Citizen Nonsense
Other than Rob Menard, we don't have a catch-all thread for what these cats are up to. Here's one.
The Crazy Case of Ex-NFL Player’s Pageant-Crashing Lackeys
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#2 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,550
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#3 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,252
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I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley |
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#4 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 33,559
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#5 |
Begging for Scraps
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK, suburbia. 20 minutes in the future
Posts: 2,020
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“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin ...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer |
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#6 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,351
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I love these guys, as long as there non-violent. There is something poetic about the whole, "Your laws don't apply to me for these very legalistic* reasons!"
*obviously not really legal reason, just legalistic jargon and rationales. |
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#7 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,419
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#8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 49,869
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Nice change since the usual proponents of this idiocy are Nordic Aryan types....
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#9 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 33,559
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,073
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Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
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#11 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 49,869
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#12 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,840
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https://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/03/u...farrakhan.html
Seems for the most part an anti-miscegenation common cause. **** the moderates and harmonizers, we're going to shut this crap down together! |
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#13 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 5,164
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I remember seeing a video of a woman and her boyfriend being stopped for a traffic violation, and he ended up being charged with driving without a license. She started yelling about a nonsense regulation that proved he didn't need a license and the police had no authority over them. She called herself a "free inhabitant", or something like that. She insisted that if the officer called his commander and reported her claims, then he would be told to let them go. |
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#14 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 1,027
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#15 |
NWO Litter Technician
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 14,341
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Suddenly, I understand Luke Kuechly's early retirement a lot better.
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When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips
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#16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 20,037
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I was watching "How the States got their Shapes" the other day and it was talking about Ohio and how, apparently, Ohio didn't technically fulfill all the requirements when it applied for statehood, and there was a missing form of some sort. It was realized in 1950 when the state was going to celebrate its 150th anniversary of being a state, so Eisenhower had to sign something that retroactively made Ohio a state for all that time.
They mentioned in the show that it apparently still comes up on occasion for those who don't want to pay taxes (aka Sovereign Citizen), but just laughed them off as the dingbats that they are. By the way, their claims don't get any where. Yes, Ohio is a state, you morons. |
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"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets |
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#17 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 6,284
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Yeah, well, Ohioo may be a state, but how bout the Land Between Wyoming and Montana?
There really is such a place. The border was surveyed twice, in the 1870s & again in the 1890s. They differed by a quarter of a mile. Doesn't sound like much, but it's 300 miles long. Who levies taxes on all that, WY or MT? Any Sov Git can tell you: nobody! The Land Between, the Horizontal Chile of the West, pays no taxes to anybody! It heeds no laws! It charges fees on intruders, too. $10/second, probably. My head hurts. Where's my tinfoil hat? |
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Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil |
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#18 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,728
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Bizarre case involves a US air marshal, his Sea-Doo and accusations of his fringe, anti-government views
Originally Posted by CNN
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#19 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,351
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Really, the ideologies are just mirrors of one another, they have quite a bit in common. Once you've decided that there is either a superior race or that races are all just better off living apart, the solutions are gonna look alike, just with a different hue.
Reminds of the Jewish conspiracy nut I heard interviewed years ago. Basically the same conspiracy and and actors as the anti-semitic conspiracy nuts would tell you its just the Rothschilds were really NAZI rather than Jews. |
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#20 |
Winking at the Moon
Deputy Admin
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 13,951
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It's spreading to the UK despite our laws being very different:
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/n...ge-mid-3589357 |
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Why can't you be more like Agatha? - Loss Leader |
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#21 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 5,164
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I just remembered an episode of "Dirty Jobs" in which the host was interviewing a leather tanner. He mentioned that he had gotten various letters from the EPA and the NY State Dept. of Environmental Conservation about his operation, but asserted that they had no authority over him. I was working for NYSDEC at the time, so I found it amusing.
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#22 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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#23 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14,291
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They are spoiled brats who think they deserve something for nothing.
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Ceterum autem censeo fox et amicis esse delendam. |
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#24 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,848
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There may well be a "strawman" for financial purposes but the "flesh-and-blood" human would be surety for the strawman if he signed any contracts.
It is essentially a bastardization of the way a business is treated. For financial purposes, a business is treated as an entity that is separate from its owners. However, the business owners own all the assets of the business, are liable for all of the debts of the business and are entitled to all of the profits of the business or have to pay all of the losses of the business out of their own pocket. Where the "magic" comes in is that they believe that there is a way to break the nexus between themselves and their strawman that the courts will actually listen to. If the judge did that then he would be on the hook for the bill. This is another bastardization of the way financial documents work. A "bill of exchange" is essentially a letter addressed to somebody demanding money. If the addressee writes "accepted" then he is acknowledging the debt and the bill acquires the status of a promissory note. There is supposed to be some magic way to sign a promissory note without being on the hook to pay it but it seems to apply mainly to banks who don't actually give you any money but just credit your bank account. (No explanation is given why this method works if you immediately make a cash withdrawal). |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#25 | |||
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 1,027
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Sovereign citizenship has spread to my neck of the woods, making an appearance in Singapore:
Her defence doesn’t seem to have worked, being remanded to a mental health institute, then fined: https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/south...wear-face-mask And now she has two extra charges: https://www.todayonline.com/singapor...r-thomson-food Next court date June 2... |
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#26 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,110
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Curious how this movement survives. They make very real claims about how the legal system works, and again and again there are examples of it failing. These people can harp about legal persons, gold fringed flags, and whatever, but eventually the State will prevail.
I get the feeling there's a mix of activist sovcits, who think their beliefs are what the law ought to be, and the extremely gullible ones who actually think it's going to work. The latter group I can't explain at all. How many times do the tactics have to fail in court before you realize the State won't accept your arguments? |
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Gobble gobble |
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#27 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 28,886
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Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
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#28 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,110
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What do they even think the law is, on a fundamental level, I wonder. Because "a system of rules backed up by the threat of being taken to jail by guys with guns" sure sounds a lot like the law to me.
The nitty-gritty details of how the law is interpreted and how it is constructed can vary, but at the most basic level, it's about who has the most ability to exercise force to get their way, and that's the State. |
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Gobble gobble |
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#29 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,524
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The most obnoxious thing about the SC arguments is that even if they're valid, the courts still prevail.
Telling the bandit leader that he has no legitimate authority isn't going to stop him and his henchmen from emptying your pockets and sending you on your way with a beating. A real Freeman on the Land would be tracking down a legit Admiralty Court, with the flag fringes and everything, so they could lodge a proper appeal and get justice over the kangaroo courts that seemingly run things. Trying to get the kangaroo court itself to honor your appeal of its rulings is by far the stupidest part of the FOTL nonsense. |
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#30 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 18,624
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I think many of these sov claimants are merely scofflaws and common petty criminals looking for an easy way to get over.
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He must be removed. George Will on President Donald J. Trump. June 1, 2020 |
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#31 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,524
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#32 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 18,624
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He must be removed. George Will on President Donald J. Trump. June 1, 2020 |
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#33 | |||
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 18,624
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My favorite sov/cit court failure.
Judge Tells Sovcit To Learn The Law Real Quick Or Get Represented |
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He must be removed. George Will on President Donald J. Trump. June 1, 2020 |
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#34 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 28,886
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For some of them, it's a religious thing. they think the "real law" was handed down by god, and then these fake courts screwed it all up. For others, they think that the "Real Law" exists, but is only known the The Special People, like corporations and rich people, who know all the right words to say to get free money and to get out of jail. The Sov Cits are convinced they've sussed out what those magic words are, so they can do it too. Any failures are explained away as you not getting it quite right, thus invalidating the incantation. |
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Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
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#35 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,698
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One thing I don't quite get: if sovereign citizens don't accept the law of the land, then why do they use the currency of the land?
Michael |
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"I want the kids in bed by nine, the dog fed, the yard watered and the gate locked. And get a note to the milkman NO MORE CHEESE!" “Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.” |
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#36 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: The Scunthorpe Problem
Posts: 351
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#37 |
Muse
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 560
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I always wonder about the SovCits that use the Bible for a basis in law and continually talk about Gods Laws as the only law of the land. I've read the Old Testament and I do NOT want to live in that world. Where can I get a written list of Gods Laws aside from the 10 commandments?
Lately I've read its the King James version but nowhere would anyone tell me which version that is of the bible. Still no laws quoted, just verses that are taken out of context. The new groups looks like another kick at the can or throwing crap against the wall hoping for some stickiness. Nothing new or interesting at all. |
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Energy can neither be created nor destroyed...it can only be wasted. Red Green |
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#38 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,846
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I've always thought that sovcits are really anarcho-libertarians pretending what they believe is law.
Most anarcho-libertarians know full well that their politics are the way they think things ought to be, not the way they are. The sovcit's self-delusion is the reason they are so decried. |
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#39 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14,291
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They are cosplayers who can't tell fiction from reality.
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Ceterum autem censeo fox et amicis esse delendam. |
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#40 |
Muse
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 560
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Some SovCits have guns without orange caps on the barrels. Cosplayers are harmless, fun and serious about their schtick. To compare them with turdballs like SovCits is unfair.
I actually cant think of a group to compare them to without insulting a whole lotta people. ![]() |
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Energy can neither be created nor destroyed...it can only be wasted. Red Green |
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