Sovereign Citizen Nonsense

carlitos · 9th January 2020, 12:19 PM

Other than Rob Menard, we don't have a catch-all thread for what these cats are up to. Here's one.

The Crazy Case of Ex-NFL Player’s Pageant-Crashing Lackeys

Quote:

DISORDER IN THE COURT
The retired Green Bay Packer now runs a fringe ministry. Two of his followers spouted “sovereign citizen” buzzwords in a bizarre court appearance.

...
Gbaja-Biamila is the leader of Straitway Praiseland, a Wisconsin offshoot of Tennessee’s fringe Straitway Truth Ministry. The church calls itself “Hebrew Israelite” and claims to preach a literal reading of the Bible. Centered in a Tennessee compound where some members live, farm, and train with firearms, Straitway Truth Ministry has endorsed conspiracy theories like Flat Earth in its official pamphlets, as well as male members’ right to have multiple wives.
...
Salmi and Desmith’s handwritten court filings show further traces of sovereign ideology, according to Joanna Mendelson, a senior investigative researcher at the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism.

Many sovereign citizens believe that their legal name is actually a “straw man,” a separate entity from their “flesh-and-blood” selves, she explained. Sovereign citizens often reference their “straw man” in all-caps, while using phony or just plain weird jargon to refer to what they see as their true selves.

Salmi and Desmith both tried a version of the tactic in handwritten documents they filed this week.

“There are a few elements throughout the document where they identify themselves in capital letters and then in the next line they talk about themselves in lower case letters and mention ‘beneficiary,’” Mendelson told The Daily Beast.

She also suggested that they deliberately referred to themselves as human or “i:man,” perhaps to differentiate from the Sovereign concept of “straw man.”

I don't know what makes them believe in the power of these magic words.

Quote:

When the judge called the trio “respondents” (a legal term for people in the case), Gbaja-Biamila objected. “We are not respondents,” he said, according to the Associated Press. “We are only men.” He threatened to “bill you $10 per second” if the judge used the term.

Redwood · 9th January 2020, 06:40 PM

Quote:

When the judge called the trio “respondents” (a legal term for people in the case), Gbaja-Biamila objected. “We are not respondents,” he said, according to the Associated Press. “We are only men.” He threatened to “bill you $10 per second” if the judge used the term.

DevilsAdvocate · 9th January 2020, 07:02 PM

Quote:

When the judge called the trio “respondents” (a legal term for people in the case), Gbaja-Biamila objected. “We are not respondents,” he said, according to the Associated Press. “We are only men.” He threatened to “bill you $10 per second” if the judge used the term.

But then the judge would just return the bill to him stamped "Accepted for Value".

Mojo · 10th January 2020, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

But then the judge would just return the bill to him stamped "Accepted for Value".

I thought it had to be written in red ink at a 45-degree angle.

Mongrel · 10th January 2020, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

I thought it had to be written in red ink at a 45-degree angle.

On duck egg blue paper...
Or was that from a different part of their handbook?

ahhell · 10th January 2020, 07:02 AM

I love these guys, as long as there non-violent. There is something poetic about the whole, "Your laws don't apply to me for these very legalistic* reasons!"

*obviously not really legal reason, just legalistic jargon and rationales.

Hans · 11th January 2020, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by ahhell

I love these guys, as long as there non-violent. There is something poetic about the whole, "Your laws don't apply to me for these very legalistic* reasons!"

*obviously not really legal reason, just legalistic jargon and rationales.

I always liked the idea that the evil world wide conspiracy would write in 'opt out rules' into the evil legal system to make every one else slaves.

dudalb · 13th January 2020, 02:45 PM

Nice change since the usual proponents of this idiocy are Nordic Aryan types....

Mojo · 13th January 2020, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mongrel

On duck egg blue paper...
Or was that from a different part of their handbook?

Not that old canard! It has to be robin egg blue, surely?

BStrong · 13th January 2020, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Nice change since the usual proponents of this idiocy are Nordic Aryan types....

I wouldn't have predicted an intersection of white supremacy and black nationalism/religious affiliation, but I wouldn't have predicted The Nation of Islam and Scientology would make common cause either.

dudalb · 13th January 2020, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by BStrong

I wouldn't have predicted an intersection of white supremacy and black nationalism/religious affiliation, but I wouldn't have predicted The Nation of Islam and Scientology would make common cause either.

The White Supremist and the Black Nationalist have one thing in common: THey both don't like Jews very much.

Venom · 13th January 2020, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by BStrong

I wouldn't have predicted an intersection of white supremacy and black nationalism/religious affiliation, but I wouldn't have predicted The Nation of Islam and Scientology would make common cause either.

https://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/03/u...farrakhan.html

Seems for the most part an anti-miscegenation common cause.

**** the moderates and harmonizers, we're going to shut this crap down together!

Armitage72 · 14th January 2020, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by ahhell

I love these guys, as long as there non-violent. There is something poetic about the whole, "Your laws don't apply to me for these very legalistic* reasons!"

*obviously not really legal reason, just legalistic jargon and rationales.

I remember seeing a video of a woman and her boyfriend being stopped for a traffic violation, and he ended up being charged with driving without a license. She started yelling about a nonsense regulation that proved he didn't need a license and the police had no authority over them. She called herself a "free inhabitant", or something like that. She insisted that if the officer called his commander and reported her claims, then he would be told to let them go.

gypsyjackson · 16th January 2020, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

I remember seeing a video of a woman and her boyfriend being stopped for a traffic violation, and he ended up being charged with driving without a license. She started yelling about a nonsense regulation that proved he didn't need a license and the police had no authority over them. She called herself a "free inhabitant", or something like that. She insisted that if the officer called his commander and reported her claims, then he would be told to let them go.

Article 4 free inhabitant, I expect.

timhau · 16th January 2020, 07:32 AM

Suddenly, I understand Luke Kuechly's early retirement a lot better.

pgwenthold · 17th January 2020, 11:10 AM

I was watching "How the States got their Shapes" the other day and it was talking about Ohio and how, apparently, Ohio didn't technically fulfill all the requirements when it applied for statehood, and there was a missing form of some sort. It was realized in 1950 when the state was going to celebrate its 150th anniversary of being a state, so Eisenhower had to sign something that retroactively made Ohio a state for all that time.

They mentioned in the show that it apparently still comes up on occasion for those who don't want to pay taxes (aka Sovereign Citizen), but just laughed them off as the dingbats that they are. By the way, their claims don't get any where.

Yes, Ohio is a state, you morons.

sackett · 19th January 2020, 09:35 AM

Yeah, well, Ohioo may be a state, but how bout the Land Between Wyoming and Montana?

There really is such a place. The border was surveyed twice, in the 1870s & again in the 1890s. They differed by a quarter of a mile. Doesn't sound like much, but it's 300 miles long. Who levies taxes on all that, WY or MT?

Any Sov Git can tell you: nobody! The Land Between, the Horizontal Chile of the West, pays no taxes to anybody! It heeds no laws!

It charges fees on intruders, too. $10/second, probably.

My head hurts. Where's my tinfoil hat?

9th January 2020, 12:19 PM	#1
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 21,051	Sovereign Citizen Nonsense Other than Rob Menard, we don't have a catch-all thread for what these cats are up to. Here's one. The Crazy Case of Ex-NFL Player’s Pageant-Crashing Lackeys Quote: DISORDER IN THE COURT The retired Green Bay Packer now runs a fringe ministry. Two of his followers spouted “sovereign citizen” buzzwords in a bizarre court appearance. ... Gbaja-Biamila is the leader of Straitway Praiseland, a Wisconsin offshoot of Tennessee’s fringe Straitway Truth Ministry. The church calls itself “Hebrew Israelite” and claims to preach a literal reading of the Bible. Centered in a Tennessee compound where some members live, farm, and train with firearms, Straitway Truth Ministry has endorsed conspiracy theories like Flat Earth in its official pamphlets, as well as male members’ right to have multiple wives. ... Salmi and Desmith’s handwritten court filings show further traces of sovereign ideology, according to Joanna Mendelson, a senior investigative researcher at the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism. Many sovereign citizens believe that their legal name is actually a “straw man,” a separate entity from their “flesh-and-blood” selves, she explained. Sovereign citizens often reference their “straw man” in all-caps, while using phony or just plain weird jargon to refer to what they see as their true selves. Salmi and Desmith both tried a version of the tactic in handwritten documents they filed this week. “There are a few elements throughout the document where they identify themselves in capital letters and then in the next line they talk about themselves in lower case letters and mention ‘beneficiary,’” Mendelson told The Daily Beast. She also suggested that they deliberately referred to themselves as human or “i:man,” perhaps to differentiate from the Sovereign concept of “straw man.” I don't know what makes them believe in the power of these magic words. Quote: When the judge called the trio “respondents” (a legal term for people in the case), Gbaja-Biamila objected. “We are not respondents,” he said, according to the Associated Press. “We are only men.” He threatened to “bill you $10 per second” if the judge used the term.

9th January 2020, 06:40 PM	#2
Redwood Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,524	Quote: When the judge called the trio “respondents” (a legal term for people in the case), Gbaja-Biamila objected. “We are not respondents,” he said, according to the Associated Press. “We are only men.” He threatened to “bill you $10 per second” if the judge used the term.
Redwood Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,524

9th January 2020, 07:02 PM	#3
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,323	Quote: When the judge called the trio “respondents” (a legal term for people in the case), Gbaja-Biamila objected. “We are not respondents,” he said, according to the Associated Press. “We are only men.” He threatened to “bill you $10 per second” if the judge used the term. But then the judge would just return the bill to him stamped "Accepted for Value".
	__________________ "You really don't command the enterprise." - Leonard Cohen

10th January 2020, 01:39 AM	#4
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 31,688	Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate But then the judge would just return the bill to him stamped "Accepted for Value". I thought it had to be written in red ink at a 45-degree angle.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

10th January 2020, 06:06 AM	#5
Mongrel Begging for Scraps Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: 20 minutes in the future Posts: 1,968	Originally Posted by Mojo I thought it had to be written in red ink at a 45-degree angle. On duck egg blue paper... Or was that from a different part of their handbook?
	__________________ “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin ...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer

10th January 2020, 07:02 AM	#6
ahhell Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,873	I love these guys, as long as there non-violent. There is something poetic about the whole, "Your laws don't apply to me for these very legalistic* reasons!" *obviously not really legal reason, just legalistic jargon and rationales.
ahhell Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,873

11th January 2020, 04:22 PM	#7
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,007	Originally Posted by ahhell I love these guys, as long as there non-violent. There is something poetic about the whole, "Your laws don't apply to me for these very legalistic* reasons!" *obviously not really legal reason, just legalistic jargon and rationales. I always liked the idea that the evil world wide conspiracy would write in 'opt out rules' into the evil legal system to make every one else slaves.
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,007

13th January 2020, 02:45 PM	#8
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,524	Nice change since the usual proponents of this idiocy are Nordic Aryan types....
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

13th January 2020, 03:56 PM	#9
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 31,688	Originally Posted by Mongrel On duck egg blue paper... Or was that from a different part of their handbook? Not that old canard! It has to be robin egg blue, surely?
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

13th January 2020, 04:12 PM	#10
BStrong Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Francisco Posts: 12,720	Originally Posted by dudalb Nice change since the usual proponents of this idiocy are Nordic Aryan types.... I wouldn't have predicted an intersection of white supremacy and black nationalism/religious affiliation, but I wouldn't have predicted The Nation of Islam and Scientology would make common cause either.
	__________________ Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus

13th January 2020, 04:39 PM	#11
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,524	Originally Posted by BStrong I wouldn't have predicted an intersection of white supremacy and black nationalism/religious affiliation, but I wouldn't have predicted The Nation of Islam and Scientology would make common cause either. The White Supremist and the Black Nationalist have one thing in common: THey both don't like Jews very much.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

13th January 2020, 04:41 PM	#12
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 3,627	Originally Posted by BStrong I wouldn't have predicted an intersection of white supremacy and black nationalism/religious affiliation, but I wouldn't have predicted The Nation of Islam and Scientology would make common cause either. https://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/03/u...farrakhan.html Seems for the most part an anti-miscegenation common cause. **** the moderates and harmonizers, we're going to shut this crap down together!

14th January 2020, 09:31 AM	#13
Armitage72 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,729	Originally Posted by ahhell I love these guys, as long as there non-violent. There is something poetic about the whole, "Your laws don't apply to me for these very legalistic* reasons!" *obviously not really legal reason, just legalistic jargon and rationales. I remember seeing a video of a woman and her boyfriend being stopped for a traffic violation, and he ended up being charged with driving without a license. She started yelling about a nonsense regulation that proved he didn't need a license and the police had no authority over them. She called herself a "free inhabitant", or something like that. She insisted that if the officer called his commander and reported her claims, then he would be told to let them go.
Armitage72 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,729

16th January 2020, 06:55 AM	#14
gypsyjackson Muse Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 507	Originally Posted by Armitage72 I remember seeing a video of a woman and her boyfriend being stopped for a traffic violation, and he ended up being charged with driving without a license. She started yelling about a nonsense regulation that proved he didn't need a license and the police had no authority over them. She called herself a "free inhabitant", or something like that. She insisted that if the officer called his commander and reported her claims, then he would be told to let them go. Article 4 free inhabitant, I expect.
gypsyjackson Muse Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 507

16th January 2020, 07:32 AM	#15
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 13,396	Suddenly, I understand Luke Kuechly's early retirement a lot better.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

17th January 2020, 11:10 AM	#16
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 18,550	I was watching "How the States got their Shapes" the other day and it was talking about Ohio and how, apparently, Ohio didn't technically fulfill all the requirements when it applied for statehood, and there was a missing form of some sort. It was realized in 1950 when the state was going to celebrate its 150th anniversary of being a state, so Eisenhower had to sign something that retroactively made Ohio a state for all that time. They mentioned in the show that it apparently still comes up on occasion for those who don't want to pay taxes (aka Sovereign Citizen), but just laughed them off as the dingbats that they are. By the way, their claims don't get any where. Yes, Ohio is a state, you morons.
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

19th January 2020, 09:35 AM	#17
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 5,829	Yeah, well, Ohioo may be a state, but how bout the Land Between Wyoming and Montana? There really is such a place. The border was surveyed twice, in the 1870s & again in the 1890s. They differed by a quarter of a mile. Doesn't sound like much, but it's 300 miles long. Who levies taxes on all that, WY or MT? Any Sov Git can tell you: nobody! The Land Between, the Horizontal Chile of the West, pays no taxes to anybody! It heeds no laws! It charges fees on intruders, too. $10/second, probably. My head hurts. Where's my tinfoil hat?
	__________________ Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil