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#201 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,116
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__________________
![]() It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) ![]() |
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#202 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
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^This. And teachers especially do not have the right, within their responsibilities as teachers, to bully students of any “race,” or to be so unaware/uncaring of fundamental memes of racial bigotry as to employ them so blatantly.
Freedom of speech does not mean that one can be nasty, insensitive, and ignorant at your job while expecting continued employment. Beyond this, frankly IMHO I don’t see the right to insult other people as being one of the most crucial freedoms of speech... |
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#203 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,688
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Probably just me, as we didn't have it, but I actually find the whole taking photos of the kids on trips thing a bit weird.
Get from the thread it is a normal thing some places. |
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#204 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,729
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#205 |
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Location: Monkey
Posts: 58,972
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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#206 |
Suspended
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Posts: 19,688
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#207 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,729
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#208 |
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Location: Monkey
Posts: 58,972
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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#209 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,879
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#210 |
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#211 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,879
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This has been debated endlessly. If you knowingly and maliciously make a false statement then somebody who is harmed by it can sue for redress. Revealing classified information is also not covered under "free speech" (since you presumably gave that undertaking when you received that information or you obtained it illegally).
Merely stating an opinion should never be subject to such restrictions. Otherwise you would be handing the keys to the asylum to the lunatics. We would have the crazy situation where anybody who felt offended by your opinion could take you to court and sue you for millions of dollars. |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#212 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#213 |
Suspended
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#214 |
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Unless of course the teachers in the US are the thickest people around.
Good luck with the kids if this is the case |
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#215 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 24,137
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#216 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,116
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__________________
![]() It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) ![]() |
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#217 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
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#218 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
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#219 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,204
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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#220 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
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Some are. Some are brilliant. My kids were in public school K - 12 and some significant part of my role as parent was to hope they got the latter as teachers, but if they got the former to find ways of compensating. Of course I tried to influence the choices of teachers in the few subtle ways available to me, but usually that was not possible.
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#221 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
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#222 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
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__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#223 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,116
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__________________
![]() It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) ![]() |
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#224 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,116
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__________________
![]() It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) ![]() |
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#225 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,204
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No it is not.
Although the term has been used as an insult, it is not possible to conclude from an image that the maligned actually are monkeys. However, it is not possible to discern from an image that a person pictured is clearly not a pedophile. Your labeling it thus has a potential to create harm that a clearly untrue accusation does not have. Or do you assert that labeling the boys in question "pedophiles" would not be an act of greater consequence to them than putting "monkey do" above their picture (following the "monkey see" image) ? |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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#226 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 13,113
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Fair question. When seeing the thread title, I assumed some kind of business tried to rip off another business model and got slammed with a $12mil suit.
And no one is claiming they are shocked. It is more that it is not a common racial thing. Look at Wikipedia's entry for the expression. No mention of racist usage or connotations. Wiki gone white power too, I suppose? Well, speaking as one o' them thar Northerns, this tale is solidly in the 'leaping to the wrong conclusion' pile. I mean, come on...monkey see, monkey do? Google the term, and see how many kid programs and yoga studios and everything else under the sun shares this name. But just this one usage is racist (while parents and students of all colors flood the hearing in support of them)? Here again, it does not reflect on whether racism exists, despite your straw assertion. The argument is that this is a lousy example if someone wishes to show racism on the hoof. |
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We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain |
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#227 |
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#228 |
Featherless biped
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#229 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#230 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 20,059
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"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets |
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#231 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Tbf without naming names there is a fair bit of purposefully obtuseness (may have made up a word) that goes on here.
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#232 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 13,113
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Yeah, we know. We all know. But it's not what we are talking about.
Any reference to monkeys does not automatically mean racism. I've heard there are these cats called 'skeptics' who value this jazz called 'context'. The context here is a science teacher who has used this goofy monkey do thing for like a decade with kids of different races. At the hearing, the place overflowed with support for him, from people of all colors. That says to me that this example is not racist. It was innocent, if stupid, as some of these turn out to be. But what do we do with a day care called 'Monkey Do'? Should we recommend to the owners not to accept black students, lest they be pictured under the school's signage, and the owner accused of being a hateful racist? Should the owner of Monkey Do Yoga refuse to sell a t-shirt to a black member? Think about it; the reasoning is going off the rails. |
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We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain |
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#233 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
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#234 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,980
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Yes the "Oh please remind me again that this is bad, as if we've never had this discussion before" thing we have to do every time this topic comes up.
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Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
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#235 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,980
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I'd ask what exactly about calling black people monkeys is so important to people that it has to be defended, but I already know I'd just get a bunch of unrelated rants about PC snowflakes and everyone being offended all the time which aren't answers to that question.
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Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
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#236 |
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#237 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 13,113
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__________________
We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain |
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#238 |
Suspended
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#239 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,879
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__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#240 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,116
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__________________
![]() It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) ![]() |
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