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Tags Aaron Zelinsky , donald trump , Jonathan Kravis , roger stone , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 11th February 2020, 02:56 PM   #1
carlitos
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Tuesday Afternoon Massacre

For those unfamiliar with the reference, the "Saturday Night Massacre" was when two of Richard Nixon's attorneys-general resigned rather than carry out his inappropriate orders to fire special prosecutor Archibald Cox.

Today in DC, US Attorneys are apparently withdrawing and resigning over Trump's twitter-led interference in making a sentencing recommendation for convicted felon Roger Stone.

https://boingboing.net/2020/02/11/tu...ssacre-an.html

Quote:
Earlier today, top Mueller prosecutor Aaron Zelinsky resigned from his position as AUSA in the DC office, but still works in MD... for now.

Jonathan Kravis became the second -- in a statement he said he "has resigned as an Assistant United States Attorney and therefore no longer represents the government in this case."

A third AUSA, Adam Jed, another Mueller veteran, just withdrew.

And a new DOJ attorney, John Crabb Jr., has entered his appearance.
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Old 11th February 2020, 03:12 PM   #2
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Old 11th February 2020, 03:46 PM   #3
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From CNN - Four are apparently out, after they felt undercut by their bosses at Justice going around them asking for a reduced sentence recommendation, which had nothing at all to do with the President tweeting about Roger Stone at 2 in the morning.

Quote:
Prosecutors quit
Soon after the revised recommendation was made, the four prosecutors who had worked on the trial, Aaron S.J. Zelinsky, Jonathan Kravis, Adam Jed and Mike Marando, filed a motion to withdraw from the case. Zelinsky and Kravis both resigned from the DC US attorney's office.
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Old 11th February 2020, 04:05 PM   #4
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Makes me think that Trump may just go ahead and pardon Stone at some point. Because he can.
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Old 11th February 2020, 05:19 PM   #5
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IIRC, the Judge in the Stone case is Amy Berman-Jackson

IIRC, Judge Berman Jackson doesn't take any **** from the DOJ. If she thinks the sentencing recommendation is too light, she will either ignore it or send it back with a "please try again" notice.
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Old 11th February 2020, 07:36 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Makes me think that Trump may just go ahead and pardon Stone at some point. Because he can.
The pardon is scheduled for November 4.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
IIRC, the Judge in the Stone case is Amy Berman-Jackson

IIRC, Judge Berman Jackson doesn't take any **** from the DOJ. If she thinks the sentencing recommendation is too light, she will either ignore it or send it back with a "please try again" notice.
Goddam radical commie librul leftist unelected judge!
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Old 11th February 2020, 07:48 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Makes me think that Trump may just go ahead and pardon Stone at some point. Because he can.
I suspect not. I think a commuted sentence is more likely. Less controversial, and accomplishes the most important part of a pardon for someone like Stone.
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Old 11th February 2020, 08:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
....Less controversial,....
Sure. But pardoning Stone would troll the libs more. Trolling the libs is the primary thing these days.

I don't think our current President is much concerned with controversy any more. If he ever was.
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Old 11th February 2020, 08:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I suspect not. I think a commuted sentence is more likely. Less controversial, and accomplishes the most important part of a pardon for someone like Stone.
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Sure. But pardoning Stone would troll the libs more. Trolling the libs is the primary thing these days.

I don't think our current President is much concerned with controversy any more. If he ever was.
Agreed. Why on Earth would Trump care if something is controversial? It’s not like He would face any real consequence.
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Old 11th February 2020, 08:23 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I suspect not. I think a commuted sentence is more likely. Less controversial, and accomplishes the most important part of a pardon for someone like Stone.
Well, yeah. By "pardon" I was just using a shorthand for pardon or commute.

I still hear people say that Obama "pardoned" Chelsea Manning. He did not. But he did commute part of her sentence so that she could be released early.

But a full pardon for Stone wouldn't surprise me much, controversial or not. Trump doesn't seem very controversy-shy to me.
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:03 PM   #11
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I don't know. He might be willing to pardon Stone, but someone would sit Trump down with slides and crayon drawings and explain that a Pardon would leave Stone open to subpoenas. Probably just get the sentence commutation like Scooter Libby.
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:05 PM   #12
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Imagine having such strong principles that you would quit your job for them. I hope they all go on to have very successful careers.
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:19 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
I don't know. He might be willing to pardon Stone, but someone would sit Trump down with slides and crayon drawings and explain that a Pardon would leave Stone open to subpoenas. Probably just get the sentence commutation like Scooter Libby.
Not doubting you or anything, but could you explain that bit?
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Not doubting you or anything, but could you explain that bit?
I think Random is probably referring to the 5th amendment, but it seems sort of unlikely to me that this would really matter. I mean, hypothetically he could be open to subpoenas either way. It also presumes that Stone has knowledge of some other crime that he could or would testify to.
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:35 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Sure. But pardoning Stone would troll the libs more. Trolling the libs is the primary thing these days.

I don't think our current President is much concerned with controversy any more. If he ever was.
The Troll is strong with this one.
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Not doubting you or anything, but could you explain that bit?
Someone who has been pardoned can no longer be prosecuted for whatever he did. That means he can no longer claim the protection of the Fifth Amendment because he can no longer incriminate himself. He can then be ordered to give full and truthful testimony about somebody/everybody else's crimes, and if he refuses to do so or lies under oath he can then be prosecuted for the new crimes of contempt and maybe perjury and obstruction of justice. If Trump pardons him, he could be required to give up everything he knows about every crime Trump has ever committed -- and he's known Trump for around 30 years. Manafort presents the same problem.

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Old 11th February 2020, 11:17 PM   #17
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Pardoning Stone would be in line with the accepted use of power of the Presidency.
Telling the DoJ to ask for a lighter sentence because it's your guy is an abuse of power.
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Old 11th February 2020, 11:38 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Makes me think that Trump may just go ahead and pardon Stone at some point. Because he can.
November 4.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:22 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Imagine having such strong principles that you would quit your job for them. I hope they all go on to have very successful careers.
The concept is alien to Trump. As far as he's concerned, people only do things out of self-interest, and, occasionally, pure hatred.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:34 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The pardon is scheduled for November 4.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I suspect not. I think a commuted sentence is more likely. Less controversial, and accomplishes the most important part of a pardon for someone like Stone.
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
November 4.
Yeah, I'm thinking full pardon, not a commutation. Possibly before the election.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...41882793480196

He'll claim they're the victims of "Prosecutorial Misconduct".
There's also this story:

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-treasury-post
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Old 12th February 2020, 03:15 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Well, that's quite interesting.
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Old 12th February 2020, 03:30 AM   #22
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I posted a few links about this in the Mueller thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ply&p=12985917

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/stat...16256227807232

Quote:
Prosecutors recommend up to NINE YEARS in prison for Roger Stone.

They call foreign election interference a "deadly adversary" even though Stone was never accused of working with Russians or WikiLeaks.
Article embedded in tweet.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...22206783811585

Quote:
This is a horrible and very unfair situation. The real crimes were on the other side, as nothing happens to them. Cannot allow this miscarriage of justice!
https://twitter.com/JakeBGibson/stat...71189346816000

Quote:
The DOJ is changing its sentencing recommendation for Roger Stone, according to a Senior DOJ official.
“The Department finds seven to nine years extreme, excessive and grossly disproportionate," the source said, adding the DOJ will clarify its position on sentencing later today
Huh.
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
There's more.

In response to the change in sentencing recommendation all four prosecutors have resigned from the case, with Jonathan Kravis resigning his job entirely

Trump has personally withdrawn his recommendation for Jessie Liu to be Treasury undesecretary, seemingly based on the Stone recommendations, as she oversaw the case (as well as Flynn, Manafort, McCabe, etc.)

Barr is reported to have personally intervened in Stone's case (as well as Flynn's)

And Trump appears to be laying the groundwork to go after the judge: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...855976449?s=20

Quote:
Is this the Judge that put Paul Manafort in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT, something that not even mobster Al Capone had to endure? How did she treat Crooked Hillary Clinton? Just asking!
Well, Susan Collins was right that impeachment taught him a lesson...
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
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Old 12th February 2020, 03:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Yeah, I'm thinking full pardon, not a commutation. Possibly before the election.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...41882793480196

He'll claim they're the victims of "Prosecutorial Misconduct".
There's also this story:

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-treasury-post
Stone Knows where Corsi actually got the podesta information, from Friend in Russian Embassy.
Trump doesn't want the truth about Cori's Clusion to come out.
Unless you actually believe Jerome Corsi.
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Old 12th February 2020, 03:37 AM   #24
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https://twitter.com/RepJerryNadler/status/1227331491539169280?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

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It appears that the President and the Attorney General have overruled career prosecutors in order to help Roger Stone, who lied under oath on the President’s behalf. 1/2

A President who intervenes in the criminal justice system to help his allies, while punishing people like Lt. Col. Vindman for telling the truth, represents a real danger and the Committee will get to the bottom of this. 2/2
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Old 12th February 2020, 03:57 AM   #25
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https://twitter.com/amyfiscus/status...09026906050560

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Inside the DOJ talks about Stone’s sentencing: Nobody told the prosecutors that senior officials were intervening till after Fox News reported it @ktbenner @adamgoldmanNYT @SharonLNYT https://nyti.ms/38jJxyN
Quote and article embedded in tweet.
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Old 12th February 2020, 05:06 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Pardoning Stone would be in line with the accepted use of power of the Presidency.
Telling the DoJ to ask for a lighter sentence because it's your guy is an abuse of power.
An abuse of power for which there are no consequences.
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Old 12th February 2020, 05:47 AM   #27
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You play you pay.
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Old 12th February 2020, 05:56 AM   #28
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I expect that Judge Berman Jackson is going to be asking some very pointed questions as to the reasoning for the abrupt change of course.
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Old 12th February 2020, 06:17 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
You play you pay.
I agree. Stone played and he should pay the piper. Shut up and start serving his sentence.
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Old 12th February 2020, 06:38 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I expect that Judge Berman Jackson is going to be asking some very pointed questions as to the reasoning for the abrupt change of course.
To which Trump will say "Go Fish" and nothing will happen.

At this point everyone in the United States government who isn't Trump is Susan Collins.
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:03 AM   #31
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I immediately thought "Massacre" was the wrong word. Besides, it's already been in play twice. I heard it referred to as the "Tuesday Afternoon Mutiny" now a couple times.
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:13 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
To which Trump will say "Go Fish" and nothing will happen.

At this point everyone in the United States government who isn't Trump is Susan Collins.
Nothing will happen to Trump, but I have a feeling this issue could well get Barr disbarred. Big conflict of interest, if it turns out that he's involved. You can't work for the plaintiff and the defendant at the same time. I think Barr cares about the opinion of his fellow lawyers.
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:18 AM   #33
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Judge Jackson has no reason to take the new recommendations seriously, and Barr will have to Trump as much.
This is just laying the groundwork for a Pardon.
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:24 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Judge Jackson has no reason to take the new recommendations seriously, and Barr will have to Trump as much.
This is just laying the groundwork for a Pardon.
If he's going to be pardoned, what's the point of quibbling over the sentencing recommendation?
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:26 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
If he's going to be pardoned, what's the point of quibbling over the sentencing recommendation?
Trolling.
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:32 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I suspect not. I think a commuted sentence is more likely. Less controversial, and accomplishes the most important part of a pardon for someone like Stone.
1) does this president strike you as being bothered by things like perception or norms?

2) He will more likely get bored when someone tries to explain to him what "commuted sentence" means say say "$%^& it, just pardon him"
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:34 AM   #37
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...61237782855680

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Congratulations to Attorney General Bill Barr for taking charge of a case that was totally out of control and perhaps should not have even been brought. Evidence now clearly shows that the Mueller Scam was improperly brought & tainted. Even Bob Mueller lied to Congress!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...64604177469441

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Two months in jail for a Swamp Creature, yet 9 years recommended for Roger Stone (who was not even working for the Trump Campaign). Gee, that sounds very fair! Rogue prosecutors maybe? The Swamp! @foxandfriends @TuckerCarlson
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:35 AM   #38
alfaniner
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
If he's going to be pardoned, what's the point of quibbling over the sentencing recommendation?
So that The PDJT can Tweet that the original sentencing was "So unfair!", and he corrected it because he knows more than lawyers do.
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:40 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
So that The PDJT can Tweet that the original sentencing was "So unfair!", and he corrected it because he knows more than lawyers do.
I think Joe is right - trolling. And a distraction. Which makes me wonder what he's trying to distract us from.
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:47 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
If he's going to be pardoned, what's the point of quibbling over the sentencing recommendation?
"Working the refs" some might call it. He's also trying to shape public opinion and prompting his media allies to start making the case to his base that it was an unjust prosecution and the prosecutors and the judge are the real villains of the story so that when he finally does it, his supporters are ready for it, even demanding that he do it.
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