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Tags 2020 elections , Bernie Sanders , presidential candidates , socialism

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Old 14th February 2020, 01:50 AM   #81
3point14
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas.

But happens if he wins? What happens if all of his ideas suddenly are backed by major power?

Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.

Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????


This is a Poe, right?

Nobody has this poor a grasp on reality.
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Old 14th February 2020, 01:56 AM   #82
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From the perspective of a Dane, Sanders is by no means a socialist. If he was in the Danish parliament he would be just left of the centre.

We have actual socialists in our parliament. Like in "take over means of production" socialists. Sanders is a capitalist in their eyes.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:35 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Did you see the video of the Bernie campaign organizer in Iowa who called for gulags and reeducation camps?
Whoah, Synchronicity! I actually DID see that video! Do you know how I found myself down that particular rat hole? From the Above Top Secret forum. Let THAT sink in. Btw, can't remember seeing anything about gulags and re-education camps just something generic about violence or some such.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:44 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
If Sanders wins the nomination and you don't vote for him in November, you are helping Trump get re-elected. Then it'll be your fault.
Exactly. If you want Trump gone then it doesn't matter if the Dems put up a Goat for Nomination, you go and vote, and vote straight Dem across the board.
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Old 14th February 2020, 03:13 AM   #85
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Even though facts are clearly unimportant in this thread: https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sand...erence-1485478

Quote:
Many right-wing critics have argued that the ideas espoused by Sanders and other democratic socialists in Congress would lead to the collapse of the U.S. economy, and transform the country into a struggling state similar to South America's Venezuela. However, Botting and Cohen said this assessment was inaccurate, pointing out that Sanders' proposals align more closely with those already implemented by wealthy northern European countries.

"Sanders, like Elizabeth Warren, is far closer to Scandinavia than to Venezuela on his democratic socialist proposals, such as 'Medicare for all,'" Botting said.

Cohen said that Sanders' policies are "closer to those in Sweden than in Venezuela or anywhere in the communist world." She pointed out that this would easily be understood by "anyone in Europe."

"But the U.S. never had social democracy, so Americans don't understand this," the professor said.
Speaking as someone who lived in Europe until a week or two ago (curse you, Cameron!), I agree. Sanders' positions are easy to understand, are implemented throughout Europe and the UK, and have not led to gulags or purges.

I must confess, though, that I never tire of seeing Americans freak out about this stuff.
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Old 14th February 2020, 04:51 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I'm concerned.
I used to be concerned, but I've learned to stop worrying (and love the Bern).

I think you probably know that bringing up extreme bogeymen like the Khmer Rouge isn't really within the realm of possibility. We already have a man in the Oval Office who would be terrifying if his power were unchecked. Fortunately it is somewhat checked in the short term but not forever. The longer he stays in office, the more his power will grow.

Bernie isn't really a Stalinist if you are worried about that, but even if he were, we'll have congress and the courts and the free press to push back against any wackier ideas he might have. And if he really is the bogey man you fear, then we can vote him out again in 4 years. I think a second Trump term is the bigger threat.
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:16 AM   #87
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Oh, conservatives, you have so many silly fears. Socialism, coloured people, poor people, homosexuals, drugs, premartial sex, etc. No wonder you can't fit climate change and demagoguery onto your list.
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:21 AM   #88
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I’m on Quora a lot, and I’m still amazed at how many folks on the right still manage to conflate Socialism with either Soviet-style Communism or even the “National Socialism” of the Nazis.
Very few people currently are aware that the Socialist party was very strong in America in the 20s and 30s, and that a number of major cities had socialist mayors.

Of course, such conflation is actively promoted by the Republicans.
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:35 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
From the perspective of a Dane, Sanders is by no means a socialist. If he was in the Danish parliament he would be just left of the centre.

We have actual socialists in our parliament. Like in "take over means of production" socialists. Sanders is a capitalist in their eyes.

As a Danish take-over-the-means-of-producton socialist, I agree!

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Even though facts are clearly unimportant in this thread: https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sand...erence-1485478

Quote:
Many right-wing critics have argued that the ideas espoused by Sanders and other democratic socialists in Congress would lead to the collapse of the U.S. economy, and transform the country into a struggling state similar to South America's Venezuela. However, Botting and Cohen said this assessment was inaccurate, pointing out that Sanders' proposals align more closely with those already implemented by wealthy northern European countries.

"Sanders, like Elizabeth Warren, is far closer to Scandinavia than to Venezuela on his democratic socialist proposals, such as 'Medicare for all,'" Botting said.

Cohen said that Sanders' policies are "closer to those in Sweden than in Venezuela or anywhere in the communist world." She pointed out that this would easily be understood by "anyone in Europe."

"But the U.S. never had social democracy, so Americans don't understand this," the professor said.
Speaking as someone who lived in Europe until a week or two ago (curse you, Cameron!), I agree. Sanders' positions are easy to understand, are implemented throughout Europe and the UK, and have not led to gulags or purges.

I must confess, though, that I never tire of seeing Americans freak out about this stuff.

I made a thread about that: Denmark = Venezuela?!.
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:47 AM   #90
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I fear that Bernie is not radical enough. I hear a rumor that he only plans to crucify his political enemies after they are dead, not before.

The Bernie red-baiting is absurd on its face. Bernie's most radical proposals put him somewhere in soc-dem territory at best.
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Old 14th February 2020, 08:51 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That's right. There's no room between our current right-wing austerity hellworld and authoritarian communism.

Unionized minorities are currently building guillotines in state owned factories just for Bernie.
No but they are divisive confrontation ******** who don't want to here any opposing ideas. So, yeah...
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Old 14th February 2020, 08:53 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Europe is alive and well and highly Socialistic.
The European Union is hardly thriving, they have their own problems outside your fantasy world.
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Old 14th February 2020, 09:19 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
The European Union is hardly thriving, they have their own problems outside your fantasy world.
The EU is the second largest economy in the world. The US is third. If the EU isn't thriving, then I pity the poor US. I'm sure the EU will send you some aid if you need it.
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Old 14th February 2020, 09:25 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
The European Union is hardly thriving, they have their own problems outside your fantasy world.

I see what you mean.

Risking making the lives of a very, very large number of Americans who are currently struggling, in the richest country in the world, isn't really worth the risk if one of the potential outcomes is..


checks notes


"Not exactly thriving".

Not worth the risk, I guess.
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Old 14th February 2020, 09:52 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Let's not go overboard. America has a terrible civil rights record, but nothing is worse than slavery.
That's the point Bob. Slavery did not end with the 14th Amendment and the proclamation emancipation. They found ways to enslave blacks calling it something else, They either worked for subsistence wages or they risked being arrested for vagrancy and being forced to work to pay their fine and fare in the jail/prison.

This is why reparations is not some kind of gift. We would be paying not only for slavery but the institutional discrimination that held people of color back for the following 100 plus years. .
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Old 14th February 2020, 10:10 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The EU is the second largest economy in the world. The US is third. If the EU isn't thriving, then I pity the poor US. I'm sure the EU will send you some aid if you need it.
Link?
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Old 14th February 2020, 10:14 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Link?
Depends on how you're measuring it. If you're measuring it by purchasing power parity it goes China, EU, United States. If you're measuring it by GDP it's US, EU, China.
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Old 14th February 2020, 11:24 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
I’m on Quora a lot, and I’m still amazed at how many folks on the right still manage to conflate Socialism with either Soviet-style Communism or even the “National Socialism” of the Nazis.
Very few people currently are aware that the Socialist party was very strong in America in the 20s and 30s, and that a number of major cities had socialist mayors.

Of course, such conflation is actively promoted by the Republicans.
The socialist movement got so popular in North Dakota that their state's democratic party, the D-NPL, is actually a merger between the state's socialist party (the Non-Partisan League) and the Democratic party. North Dakota also still has the state-operated bank and grain mill that were established by the NPL when it was at its height.

When most Americans think of socialism, they're not likely to think of North Dakota, but girlfriend loves to talk about how it's the most socialist state in the country between the above and how the state's economy is driven mostly by farm and energy subsidies.

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Old 14th February 2020, 11:25 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The Bernie red-baiting is absurd on its face. Bernie's most radical proposals put him somewhere in soc-dem territory at best.
That's the idea. As along as people keep making unfounded accusations about Democratic candidates, similar accusations against Republican candidates will also seem unfounded, even if they aren't, because bothsidesism.

Say Trump is going to kick a puppy. If you're a Trump supporter, you don't reassure people he's not going to kick the puppy, because he damn well will and everyone knows it. Instead, you yell and scream and make bitchy little forum threads about Elizabeth Warren drowning kittens, and make her supporters deny it, which makes the relatively tame puppy kicking accusation sound ever so slightly more baseless.

Then Trump does kick the puppy, and you deliberately forget about all of this and blithely respond that of course everyone knew he was going to kick it, if people had such a problem with it why didn't they bring it up earlier?
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Old 14th February 2020, 11:37 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Link?
https://www.thebalance.com/world-s-l...conomy-3306044
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Old 14th February 2020, 11:38 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I'm concerned.
I didn't know Susan Collins was a member of this forum.

Hercules, can you please point out a policy position promoted by Sanders that you oppose? Less tone, more substance.
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Old 14th February 2020, 12:20 PM   #102
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19 reasons not to vote for Bernie "Bread Lines Are Good" Sanders:

1. $34 Trillion Socialized Health Insurance Overhaul
Sanders would ban private insurance and implement single-payer government health care. Under his Medicare for All proposal, “federal spending on health care would still increase by 10 percent of G.D.P., or more than triple what the government spends on the military,” according to The New York Times.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/02/12...e-crazy-plans/
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Old 14th February 2020, 01:14 PM   #103
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:04 PM   #104
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OP what was going through your mind as GOP voters shamelessly elected this authoritarian-lite pathological liar we have in office right now?
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Old 14th February 2020, 03:20 PM   #105
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If Bernie doesn't win the nomination, then I'm concerned and upset because it shows the DNC rigged the primary. If he does prevail, then I'm even more concerned because he'll ruin our great economy and take us down the road of socialism.
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Old 14th February 2020, 03:42 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
If Bernie doesn't win the nomination, then I'm concerned and upset because it shows the DNC rigged the primary. If he does prevail, then I'm even more concerned because he'll ruin our great economy and take us down the road of socialism.
So, either way you think his chances of ever being more than a candidate for President are slim to none.
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Old 14th February 2020, 04:42 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That's right. There's no room between our current right-wing austerity hellworld and authoritarian communism.

Unionized minorities are currently building guillotines in state owned factories just for Bernie.

You should all visit Copenhagen! We have public executions of capitalists in my local park every Saturday afternoon, but only from May 1 to Sep. 30. It's too dark and cold to venture outside the rest of the year.
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Old 14th February 2020, 04:44 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
If Bernie doesn't win the nomination, then I'm concerned and upset because it shows the DNC rigged the primary. If he does prevail, then I'm even more concerned because he'll ruin our great economy and take us down the road of socialism.
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Old 14th February 2020, 04:58 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Obama didn't threaten to increase the yearly budget by 3 trillion dollars or release hundreds of thousands of prisoners from Federal jails.
During his campaign back in 2008, the black man wasn't threaten Shariah law or the mass execution of Christians, yet a considerable amount of people were terrified of him due to... I never really understood why, to be honest. Surely couldn't be his name or skin colour .

During his campaign in 2020, the left-leaning man never threatened to set up gulags, shoot political opponents, or round up all the workers in labour camps, yet you've written an OP that predicts he may turn the US into the next Soviet Union or something.

See a pattern?
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Old 14th February 2020, 05:18 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The EU is the second largest economy in the world. The US is third. If the EU isn't thriving, then I pity the poor US. I'm sure the EU will send you some aid if you need it.
The international community will be the last bullwark against the fascist Trump regime and it's colusin the BoJo government of Britain.
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Old 14th February 2020, 05:19 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
You should all visit Copenhagen! We have public executions of capitalists in my local park every Saturday afternoon, but only from May 1 to Sep. 30. It's too dark and cold to venture outside the rest of the year.
Sell comemorative videos?
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:04 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You were the one that claimed that they were dealing with plenty of problems,
Enforcement and Removal. Only 25,000,000 problems to go.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
so it should be simple for you to specify what those problem are and why they can't be dealt with by other agencies.

Here let me help you.

They deal with drugs being brought in and also People Trafficking. There's two problems.

However both the BCP and DEA also deal with Drugs coming into the country, so why do you need ICE to deal with it too? The FBI and BCP also deal with people trafficking, so again, why do you need ICE to do so.

So really, what problems is it solving that other agencies aren't already doing, or can't be handed off to one of the other Immigration Agencies? This should be easy for you, but instead you are floundering, hard.
I'm not sure why you think these stupid questions have any relevancy to anything whatsoever. You can say this about anything.

"Branson, Missouri Police Department deals with homicide cases. FBI also deals with homicide cases. So why do you need the FBI?"

I am extremely aware you are in absolutely no position to determine which department oversees which US Federal Agency. If I were a pseudo intellectual I'd say "Dunning Kruger Effect!" But I'm not so I won't. My guess it has more to do with the culture of this forum, and the skeptic community at large. It's common place here to let bizarre and off-the wall comments to go ignored, as long as the person is trying to appear "rational" and "knowledgeable" and that his "ideas" will solve complex problems that he doesn't understand.

ETA: There is no such federal law enforcement agency with the initialism "BCP" I wouldn't even mention it if you hadn't done it repeatedly, and are trying to appear knowledgeable by Wikipedia skimming. I could make a snark joke about it for some internet points but I'll simply put that it makes it even more obvious that you don't have what it takes to even discuss this topic.

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Old 14th February 2020, 07:10 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
19 reasons not to vote for Bernie "Bread Lines Are Good" Sanders:

1. $34 Trillion Socialized Health Insurance Overhaul
Sanders would ban private insurance and implement single-payer government health care. Under his Medicare for All proposal, “federal spending on health care would still increase by 10 percent of G.D.P., or more than triple what the government spends on the military,” according to The New York Times.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/02/12...e-crazy-plans/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-federalist/
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:21 PM   #114
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Even though facts are clearly unimportant in this thread: https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sand...erence-1485478



Speaking as someone who lived in Europe until a week or two ago (curse you, Cameron!), I agree. Sanders' positions are easy to understand, are implemented throughout Europe and the UK, and have not led to gulags or purges.

I must confess, though, that I never tire of seeing Americans freak out about this stuff.
I do tire of explaining to daft Europeans why these programs work in Western Europe and not the US, or Congo, or Namibia, or Papa New Guinea, or Uganda, Cameroon.
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:33 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas.

But happens if he wins? What happens if all of his ideas suddenly are backed by major power?

Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.

Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Let us know when Bernie abandons democratic socialism and becomes a supporter of Social Democracy.

Cuz until he does, I trust that he's a Socialist.

His supporters DEFINITELY are.
Ok boomer. You clearly know too much and will be among the first we send to the gulags
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:36 PM   #116
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In answer to the thread title:
Not nearly as much as we should fear Trump.
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:39 PM   #117
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Really? They can have medical care for everybody in the UK, Canada, Japan, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, France, etc. etc. etc, but not in the richest country on the planet? We need to stop protecting the insurance companies, Big Pharma, big medicine and start protecting the average American.

I don't agree with Sanders on free tuition or his stance on Nuclear power, but I absolutely agree in Medicare for all.
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:47 PM   #118
Beelzebuddy
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
I do tire of explaining to daft Europeans why these programs work in Western Europe and not the US, or Congo, or Namibia, or Papa New Guinea, or Uganda, Cameroon.
Ooh! Ooh! I know this one! An extensive culture of corruption enabled by cowardly racist jackholes who would rather be led by the nose in blaming any convenient out-group for their own pathetic failures instead of manning the hell up and actively taking steps to make life better for everyone involved!

That's the reason, right?
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Old 14th February 2020, 08:01 PM   #119
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nope
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Old 14th February 2020, 08:16 PM   #120
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Someone concerned about Socialism in the US should be up in arms about Trump's gifts to farmers.
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