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Old 12th November 2020, 07:14 PM   #881
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I was trying to steer toward, "Those kids aren't suckers, you'll have to pay a fair price," and away from a "Those kids are lazy welfare bums and I want them to work at a loss so I can pay less at the till," kind of conversation.
Except that's bollocks - they would not be working at a loss, and the exact opposite is true. They would be earning (net after all costs) two or three times what they're earning for doing nothing.

Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
To reiterate, up here in BC, the labour shortage is due to barriers to international temporary workers (who don't know their rights and end up getting underpaid) being able to migrate into the area at critical harvest periods, not because kids are suddenly lazy with the Cov.
Yes, that was the point of both of the links I posted - the need has arisen because migrant workers can't get here, hence the call for locals to do the jobs.

Unfortunately, I know for certain it's a case of Kiwis being too lazy, because I even had free accommodation arranged through a friend if I could get a group to go down there, but there were no takers. I was going to lead a bunch of youngsters along with my own, but every person I talked to - all aged 17-21 - thought it didn't look like much fun and they were happy to have less money and no work.

And this isn't some derelict part of NZ, it's a very nice area, with excellent weather and great beaches - the ideal Kiwi getaway, and you don't work all the time. Most of the workers start early and finish about 3, getting 6 hours of daylight to play in.
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Old 12th November 2020, 08:12 PM   #882
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Unfortunately, I know for certain it's a case of Kiwis being too lazy, because I even had free accommodation arranged through a friend if I could get a group to go down there, but there were no takers. I was going to lead a bunch of youngsters along with my own, but every person I talked to - all aged 17-21 - thought it didn't look like much fun and they were happy to have less money and no work.
Prioritizing happiness over financial gain isn't "lazy", it's just placing different values on things than you do.

I could change jobs to one that pays more but is more stressful. To me, that isn't worth it because I prefer my current level of contentedness to a higher salary.
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Old 12th November 2020, 09:48 PM   #883
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Yes.
Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Having said that... I *have* been contributing biweekly, so maybe all of that 51% is new contributions for all anybody here knows.

"On the Internet nobody knows if you're a dog beginning investor."
Contributing so your portfolio grows by that much in a year still might be good.


Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I can't speak to that example, but we had something similar here in the Fraser Valley. "Come pick our cranberries for less than minimum wage, and also we charge more in room and board than we're offering in salary. We'll accept a cheque."
The Grapes of Wrath comes to mind.
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Old 16th November 2020, 12:44 PM   #884
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Speaks for itself: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/15/u...rus/index.html
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Old 16th November 2020, 02:10 PM   #885
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Quote:
North Texas Food Bank (NTFB) distributed more than 600,000 pounds of food for about 25,000 people on Saturday, according to spokeswoman Anna Kurian...

Photos provided by NTFB show thousands of cars lined up for NTFB's Drive-Thru Mobile Pantry at Fair Park. Kurian said the need for food "has certainly increased" with the pandemic, with Texas last week becoming the first US state to report 1 million cases of coronavirus.

"Forty percent of the folks coming through our partners doors are doing so for the first time," she said.


But hey, this was totally predictable - and certainly not unexpected. No black swans here!
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Old 17th November 2020, 02:27 PM   #886
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Prioritizing happiness over financial gain isn't "lazy", it's just placing different values on things than you do.

I could change jobs to one that pays more but is more stressful. To me, that isn't worth it because I prefer my current level of contentedness to a higher salary.
This is pretty much a description of my career trajectory. I'm probably at half my potential income in exchange for being able to spend my limited hours on this planet with an appropriate quality of life.

The loss of migrant workers may not be exposing laziness of the current potential workforce - it could be revealing their relative informed-ness, well-rounded-ness, and perhaps wisdom.
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Old 17th November 2020, 02:34 PM   #887
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
The Grapes of Wrath comes to mind.
I have a relative who owns a tourist attraction and uses seasonal workers from May-Aug. The location is remote, so they set up a bunkhouse situation.

It's essentially a company town, in the style of Tom Vu. Bait and switch stuff.

For those who don't know the scam, Vu offered a cheap real estate investing seminar in a hotel in the Caribbean. It was a good deal on paper, the students just had to arrange for transportation, accommodation, meals on their own. And of course, his family owned *everything* down there, so the seminar was a loss leader into the family business, which was... transportation, accommodation, and food.

So, here's my relative who offers a competitive salary. But accommodations are kinda pricey. And food... there's a food canteen that his wife runs, where you can buy a $5 coke. And a fridge rental fee if you actually do your own shopping and want to store produce. About that shopping... how are you getting to town? $50 for a ride to town and back.

Oh, and accommodation doesn't include weekends, since those aren't work days. So $100/day for Sat and Sun, or of course you could get a ride to town and back for $50. And you need a walkie-talkie... don't have one? No problem, $25/day rental. It goes on and on and I'm personally embarrassed for him, but somehow he gets suckers every summer.
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Old 20th November 2020, 02:26 PM   #888
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I am forecasting the following.
1. Sharemarkets have peaked, the vaccines look good, so sell the news.
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Old 20th November 2020, 10:59 PM   #889
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I am forecasting the following.
1. Sharemarkets have peaked, the vaccines look good, so sell the news.
I won't be able to tell if your prediction is accurate because I can't parse it.

"Sharemarkets have peaked" - there are peaks and troughs all the time. Can you be more specific? A specific index, figure, and a length of time in which it won't be reached again, say?

"vaccines look good" - a statement, not a prediction.

"sell the news"- I have absolutely no idea what that means.
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:12 AM   #890
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I won't be able to tell if your prediction is accurate because I can't parse it.

"Sharemarkets have peaked" - there are peaks and troughs all the time. Can you be more specific? A specific index, figure, and a length of time in which it won't be reached again, say?

"vaccines look good" - a statement, not a prediction.

"sell the news"- I have absolutely no idea what that means.
Sell the news is a simple adage.

In this case everyone buys the shares because they are oh so smart knowing the vaccine is around the corner.
Who will be a fresh buyer now the vaccine is a cogent “thing”?
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:03 AM   #891
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Sell the news is a simple adage.

In this case everyone buys the shares because they are oh so smart knowing the vaccine is around the corner.
Who will be a fresh buyer now the vaccine is a cogent “thing”?
Nope. Still doesn't make sense.
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:56 AM   #892
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Nope. Still doesn't make sense.
I thought it was just me.
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Old 21st November 2020, 09:13 AM   #893
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I've heard "sell the news" before.

It basically means that if a stock goes up based on a favorable news report, that is a good time to sell. The theory behind it is that the market tends to overreact to news stories, so a positive news story results in an overpriced stock, which means it's a good time to sell.

All of that depends on market timing, though, which is pretty questionable all by itself.
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:09 PM   #894
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'Buy the rumour, sell the fact"

is commonly said.

ETA

SP500 peaked at 3674 on the Pfizer announcement day. This remains the high and closed for the weekend at 3556.4, looking weak. Early days, but it makes sense for people to start watching interest rates and so on.

Last edited by Samson; 21st November 2020 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 21st November 2020, 08:15 PM   #895
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I am forecasting the following.
1. Sharemarkets have peaked, the vaccines look good, so sell the news.
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Sell the news is a simple adage.

In this case everyone buys the shares because they are oh so smart knowing the vaccine is around the corner.
Who will be a fresh buyer now the vaccine is a cogent “thing”?
In that case, that's already happened.

I've seen the share prices jump and jump for the vaccine companies I've looked at when they have news.

Even every time when there's an announcement and it's not even significant news on the vaccine.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 01:31 AM   #896
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Bali - official unemployment rate 7.5%; real unemployment rate, up to 80%.

Quote:
Yoga, who has been running the Yayasan Team Action Amed charity foundation since 2017, said mothers were feeding their babies water because they couldn’t pay for formula.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/3...dreds-starving
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Old 23rd November 2020, 03:15 AM   #897
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Who cares about a few starving brown people? The stock market's doing great!

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay
I've seen the share prices jump and jump for the vaccine companies I've looked at when they have news.

Even every time when there's an announcement and it's not even significant news on the vaccine.
Yep, Capitalism is a wonderful thing. You would think a worldwide pandemic would crash the markets and leave investors starving in the streets, but in fact it's doing the opposite. Drug companies are making a 'killing' out of it, and a rising market floats all boats. The other great thing is the virus is killing off old and poor people who were just a drag on the economy.

Some say that in the long run the virus will have damaged the economy, but there is no reason to believe this is true. Earlier in the year it was faltering, but Covid-19 has re-energized it. All those new money making opportunities!
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Old 23rd November 2020, 06:06 AM   #898
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Who cares about a few starving brown people? The stock market's doing great!

Yep, Capitalism is a wonderful thing. You would think a worldwide pandemic would crash the markets and leave investors starving in the streets, but in fact it's doing the opposite. Drug companies are making a 'killing' out of it, and a rising market floats all boats. The other great thing is the virus is killing off old and poor people who were just a drag on the economy.

Some say that in the long run the virus will have damaged the economy, but there is no reason to believe this is true. Earlier in the year it was faltering, but Covid-19 has re-energized it. All those new money making opportunities!
Who are you mad at here? What do you want them to do about it? Would it fix an unemployment problem if everyone dumped all their investments right now?
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Old 23rd November 2020, 09:40 AM   #899
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Who cares about a few starving brown people? The stock market's doing great!
Exactly.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Some say that in the long run the virus will have damaged the economy, but there is no reason to believe this is true. Earlier in the year it was faltering, but Covid-19 has re-energized it. All those new money making opportunities!
You're incorrectly conflating the economy and the sharemarket. The economy is still crap, and what's happening in Bali will be reflected everywhere in good time to some degree.

The problem is - and I said this way back at the start of the thread - governments have limited means of helping the economy, and as it turns out, they took the worst possible option of printing an almost infinite amount of money. Billionaires are truly grateful, because the trillions of dollars tipped into the economy has flowed directly upwards, and the brunt of the pandemic, like the disease itself, will be borne by the bottom half of asset owners.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 12:45 PM   #900
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You're incorrectly conflating the economy and the sharemarket. The economy is still crap
Yes, but we will never know it because the measures we use for economic 'health' don't count people dying of disease or starvation. Economics is supposed to be about the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services, but in practice it's all about money. If GDP and investments increase in 'value' then it's purportedly all good - never mind what's happening in reality. You could have 80% of the population starving and it wouldn't hurt the economy provided plenty of 'goods' and 'services' were being traded. And we have Bitcoin now, so we don't even need real products anymore.

Of course it will all coming crashing down eventually, but then we will just blame it on poor people like we did last time.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 01:13 PM   #901
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
governments have limited means of helping the economy, and as it turns out, they took the worst possible option of printing an almost infinite amount of money.
Not infinite, just enough to stop the economy from collapsing.

Quote:
Billionaires are truly grateful, because the trillions of dollars tipped into the economy has flowed directly upwards, and the brunt of the pandemic, like the disease itself, will be borne by the bottom half of asset owners.
But that is what always happens in a capitalist economy. The only way to prevent it is go communist socialist, which is impossible in today's political environment. And we all know that communism socialism has failed everywhere it was tried - just look at Venezuela!
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Old 23rd November 2020, 02:58 PM   #902
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Yes, but we will never know it because the measures we use for economic 'health' don't count people dying of disease or starvation.
Unemployment is definitely a factor, and those numbers are bad right now.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Not infinite, just enough to stop the economy from collapsing.
I dispute that. I think far more easing has taken place than necessary, and the increase in asset values tends to confirm that.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
But that is what always happens in a capitalist economy. The only way to prevent it is go communist socialist, which is impossible in today's political environment. And we all know that communism socialism has failed everywhere it was tried - just look at Venezuela!
Nicely put.
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