Covid-19 and toilet paper hysteria

[Trebuchet]

Is anyone pooping, or for the fairer sex, peeing any more than usual? Once stocked up, people aren't going to use it any faster than before. It'll be back before long.

Hand sanitizer, on the other hand, IS being used excessively.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Is anyone pooping, or for the fairer sex, peeing any more than usual? Once stocked up, people aren't going to use it any faster than before. It'll be back before long.

Hand sanitizer, on the other hand, IS being used excessively.

My wife made some tonight out of isopropyl alcohol and aloe vera gel.


The alcohol is in short supply, but not impossible to find. I don't know if there will be a supply problem for aloe vera once people start turning to homemade sources.

[Darat]

Where do people need this hand sanitiser? Are people buying it for use at home? If so it means the message of the most effective method of stopping transmission is not getting through to people. I. E. Wash you hands with SOAP and water. I'm only using sanitiser when I'm out and about, I have a travel size bottle in my coat pocket.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Darat

Where do people need this hand sanitiser? Are people buying it for use at home? If so it means the message of the most effective method of stopping transmission is not getting through to people. I. E. Wash you hands with SOAP and water. I'm only using sanitiser when I'm out and about, I have a travel size bottle in my coat pocket.

I'm taking the bottle she made to work, so that after I wash my hands in the bathroom, then go through two sets of doors, I can quickly give my hands a sanitizer spritz.


It will probably be about as effective as a prayer to Saint Tobias, but it will mae me feel like I'm doing something.

[Bikewer]

There was a lot of discussion on the local news about sanitizing your cell phone/tablet, etc.

Ok... I don’t give my phone to strangers, and it stays in my little holster most of the time... Why do I need to sanitize it?

Locally, the Walmart was selling paper goods at a huge rate, and the employees were trying to keep re-stocking. However, at the grocery store I normally use... No problems.

Oh, and our university is shutting down. Spring break extended till the 20th, and no students allowed back on campus after this Sunday. Fun times.....

[The Great Zaganza]

Originally Posted by Bikewer

There was a lot of discussion on the local news about sanitizing your cell phone/tablet, etc.

Ok... I don’t give my phone to strangers, and it stays in my little holster most of the time... Why do I need to sanitize it?

What's the point of washing your hands if you keep the virus in reserve on your phone?

[crescent]

On my Nextdoor.com feed, some people are already running out of TP due to hoarders taking all the supplies from the stores. People sharing stories of which stores still have some, only to see a few posts later that those stores have now also run out. (This is in the Denver, Colorado area).

Crazy times.

[Darat]

The little Tesco Express a little bit up from where I am working still has toilet roll.

I'm half tempted to put it on the local town's community website and watch the hoards descend.

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by Bikewer

There was a lot of discussion on the local news about sanitizing your cell phone/tablet, etc.

Ok... I don’t give my phone to strangers, and it stays in my little holster most of the time... Why do I need to sanitize it?

Ask the Golgafrinchans.

[Nessie]

This week's delivery from Asda. No rice. No loo roll. No tissues. Funny brown pasta (probably fine, but quite expensive).

Told a neighbour whose husband works at a wholesale warehouse and she phoned him for what is missing and even he cannot get it. We could find some items at the local shop and chemist, but again it is very expensive.

We are not in danger of going hungry, but if this continues, we will run into big problems.

[dann]

Am I the only human being left who has no idea if the local stores still have toilet paper? I've been to them but haven't looked, nor have I seen anybody buying large quantities of the stuff.
I haven't looked for hand sanitizer or paper masks. And I haven't stocked up on pasta, rice, beans or beef jerky.
OK, feel free to laugh when the zombies are eating my brains ...

[TragicMonkey]

I just got back from the grocery store. For me, it was regular shopping. For others...not sure. There were easily five times as many people as I normally see that time of day on a Friday. TP shelves were mostly bare but two employees were restocking it from a bunch of boxes so it doesn't seem they're running out, it's just moving off the shelves fast. The pasta aisle was a bit bare, but only two of the three usual major brands were scarce--the exact same products from "Creamette" were still on the shelves, as opposed to Barilla and the store brand. Is it just the name "Creamette" that puts people off, or is it bad pasta?

[Delphic Oracle]

Got some tilapia, butterfly chops, and boneless skinless chicken breasts, all in the freezer. Some rice, have lots of pasta as it is. Have some bags of charcoal. Girlfriend is upset about the water situation, her dog has digestive troubles and our hard water gives her the runs, even filtered is still 'soft serve' poops. I bought a big refill bag of hand soap from my own store and have Simple Green d Pro3 that kills similar stuff to coronavirus at 8oz/Gal. in 10 minutes (not FDA approved to make the claim outright, though).

All these supplies are with the understanding that they sit around waiting for if there's an interruption in supplies.

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

TP shelves were mostly bare but two employees were restocking it from a bunch of boxes so it doesn't seem they're running out, it's just moving off the shelves fast.

My boss' brother drives delivery trucks for Wegmans, a regional supermarket chain. This morning, people were lining up to grab toilet paper before it could be unloaded from the shipping pallets.

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Simple Green d Pro3 that kills similar stuff to coronavirus at 8oz/Gal. in 10 minutes (not FDA EPA approved to make the claim outright, though).

That product is a subregistration of Maquat 64-NHQ from Mason Chemical Company. Mason has told us that they've submitted applications to the EPA for Emerging Viral Pathogen language for 11 of their products, including that one. On Monday, they told us they were expecting a 4-6 month wait for approval, but that same day, the EPA announced that they're expediting the review of applications that don't require the review of new efficacy data.
The label doesn't have any higher use rates or contact times for particular human pathogens, so the eventual language should just be for the normal dilution rate and use directions.
The normal language is
"(Product name) has demonstrated effectiveness against viruses similar to (name of emerging virus) on hard, non-porous surfaces. Therefore, (product name) can be used against (name of emerging virus) when used in accordance with the directions for use against (name of supporting virus(es)) on hard, non-porous surfaces."
A product has to be approved by the EPA to inactivate at least one large or one small non-enveloped virus to be eligible for use against an enveloped emerging viral pathogen, and that's what would be cited in the statement. For the two approved products that we make and sell, one needs to use the higher concentration for Adenovirus 7 and the other has to use the longer contact time for Hepatitis A. The product you have is 2 ounces per gallon and 10 minutes for everything, except for canine parvovirus and rabies, but they're not likely to use those since the directions may not be on all subregistrant labels.

[carlitos]

I got just about the last big-ass pack of toilet paper from my local Costco today. People were stopping me in the aisles asking where I found it, because all of the paper stuff was pretty wiped out. When they saw no toilet paper, people started buying those vanity fair napkin packs. Oh, and a one-hour wait in line to pay for it. It's a little nutty.

We have enough stuff to handle maybe a month of home quarantine.

[casebro]

Originally Posted by Armitage72

That product is a subregistration of Maquat 64-NHQ from Mason Chemical Company. Mason has told us that they've submitted applications to the EPA for Emerging Viral Pathogen language for 11 of their products, including that one. On Monday, they told us they were expecting a 4-6 month wait for approval, but that same day, the EPA announced that they're expediting the review of applications that don't require the review of new efficacy data.
The label doesn't have any higher use rates or contact times for particular human pathogens, so the eventual language should just be for the normal dilution rate and use directions.
The normal language is
"(Product name) has demonstrated effectiveness against viruses similar to (name of emerging virus) on hard, non-porous surfaces. Therefore, (product name) can be used against (name of emerging virus) when used in accordance with the directions for use against (name of supporting virus(es)) on hard, non-porous surfaces."
A product has to be approved by the EPA to inactivate at least one large or one small non-enveloped virus to be eligible for use against an enveloped emerging viral pathogen, and that's what would be cited in the statement. For the two approved products that we make and sell, one needs to use the higher concentration for Adenovirus 7 and the other has to use the longer contact time for Hepatitis A. The product you have is 2 ounces per gallon and 10 minutes for everything, except for canine parvovirus and rabies, but they're not likely to use those since the directions may not be on all subregistrant labels.

Note the "ten minutes". Mason "Maquat" sounds like a Quaternary ammonia. Used in restaurants, food makers, and homebrewing.

How about vinegar as a hand sanitizer? I'm nearly done with a jar of dills.

And other than the smell, how about good old household ammonia?

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by carlitos

I got just about the last big-ass pack of toilet paper from my local Costco today. People were stopping me in the aisles asking where I found it, because all of the paper stuff was pretty wiped out. When they saw no toilet paper, people started buying those vanity fair napkin packs. Oh, and a one-hour wait in line to pay for it. It's a little nutty.

We have enough stuff to handle maybe a month of home quarantine.

I had the misfortune of needing something from Costco on December 31,1999. I hope when this is all over we will think of this crisis in the same way we thought of that one.

Not likely, but one can hope.

[Meadmaker]

I have a week or so of food, not specifically stocked up. I just have a freezer.

I never stock up for crises. I figure if it's bad enough that I can't buy stuff at stores and have to dip into my doomsday stockpile, somebody who stocked up on guns will just take it anyway.

[carlitos]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I had the misfortune of needing something from Costco on December 31,1999. I hope when this is all over we will think of this crisis in the same way we thought of that one.

I hope to look at it like a test of that Marie Kondo thing on my over-stocked pantry: does this pack of ramen bring me joy? How about these sesame rice crackers?

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by casebro

Note the "ten minutes". Mason "Maquat" sounds like a Quaternary ammonia. Used in restaurants, food makers, and homebrewing.

Quaternary ammonium chlorides, in this case. Delphic Oracle's product is a blend of alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride and didecyl dimethyl ammonium chloride. They denature the proteins in the viral envelope or capsid.

[Galaxie]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

The pasta aisle was a bit bare, but only two of the three usual major brands were scarce--the exact same products from "Creamette" were still on the shelves, as opposed to Barilla and the store brand. Is it just the name "Creamette" that puts people off, or is it bad pasta?

I usually buy Creamette brand; tastes fine to me.

[a_unique_person]

My wife found that the TP is restocked each night and seeks out in the morning. We were running low so she went there first thing in the morning. There was a limit of one pack per person but there was still a long line of people, including one brave soul who tried to buy two packets. Needless to say, it was just about sold out in no time.

[Trebuchet]

Based on past experience, we've got enough TP to last for a month or so. By that time it'll either be back on the shelves or we'll be dead.
I did stock up on the REALLY critical stuff today. We've got plenty of cat food and litter now.

[Elagabalus]

Only Marine grade TP available on Amazon. And no isopropyl alcohol available either. Had to buy the Denatured stuff. Currently, my State is trying to phase out Denatured so I could only buy it in quart sizes.

[gypsyjackson]

Singapore has had its share of shelf emptying for toilet paper, but here in Malaysia it's business as usual. Of course at home most people use a bidet hose (and then I assume just a little paper to stop water dripping into their underwear, or maybe that's just me), so it's not really a disaster if you weren't to be able get paper for a few days.

[Elagabalus]

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

I had to get TP today because I'm actually running low on it. I had forgotten to get some a few days ago and there was plenty so I wasn't concerned.

It's f*ing nuts. None at the grocery store, none at target, none at walmart, and even though Lowes said it had 15 packs available and I ordered it for in-store pick up, I didn't order fast enough and they were all sold by the time it was to get picked. I luckily found some at Home Depot. Some lady at Walmart nearly gave me her first-born for letting her know that Home Depot had some.

As it happens, last night was my first foray into the Home Depot in-store pickup - just some fence brackets. I thought that I would have to go into the belly of the beast. Not so! The instore pickup lockers are located just inside the first set of double doors at the entrance. And since you already paid for the item online you don't have to go into the store proper to mingle with the unwashed!

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Based on past experience, we've got enough TP to last for a month or so. By that time it'll either be back on the shelves or we'll be dead.
I did stock up on the REALLY critical stuff today. We've got plenty of cat food and litter now.

Ooh. Thanks for reminding me. Must get kitty litter. Will there be a run on that? I suppose I'll find out.


Went to Glory today, purely out of curiosity. I didn't need anything. Longest lines I've ever seen, and while they had toilet paper, they were sold out of any national brands. You could still buy "Essential Everyday", their store brand name, and some other "budget" varieties.

[Elagabalus]

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

My wife found that the TP is restocked each night and seeks out in the morning. We were running low so she went there first thing in the morning. There was a limit of one pack per person but there was still a long line of people, including one brave soul who tried to buy two packets. Needless to say, it was just about sold out in no time.

Or go late, right before closing, when everything's out on palettes!

*** quickly, Elagabalus comes up with a clever plan! ***

[Armitage72]

I just came from the grocery store. Western New York State, and sections looked like a set from a zombie apocalypse movie. The store was sold out of flour. Do people think that we're going to have to start baking our own bread?

[xjx388]

Originally Posted by Armitage72

I just came from the grocery store. Western New York State, and sections looked like a set from a zombie apocalypse movie. The store was sold out of flour. Do people think that we're going to have to start baking our own bread?

I actually thought of that today in the sense of, "What's the big deal, if we run out of bread, you can just make some. There's plenty of flour." I was at the store which was well stocked with most things (including flour) other than TP, paper towels, hand sanitizer, canned goods and bread.

[alfaniner]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Based on past experience, we've got enough TP to last for a month or so. By that time it'll either be back on the shelves or we'll be dead.
I did stock up on the REALLY critical stuff today. We've got plenty of cat food and litter now.

I made a special trip to the pet store to do the same. But it wasn't any more unusual than a regular trip for me -- I always buy a lot at a time, so I didn't feel any particular embarrassment.

Wouldn't it be horrible if cats (or dogs!) actually needed toilet paper? (Except for those times when they scoot on your carpet.)

[Meadmaker]

It occurred to me that there might be another reason, other than panic buying, that stores were so full today.

Michigan schools are closed starting Monday. An awful lot of families are having to provide lunches they didn't intend to buy.

But I suppose most of it was just panic buying.

[Rolfe]

I think the exhortations not to "hoard" or "panic buy" are misplaced. Don't buy silly amounts of stuff, sure. But there is a possibility that anyone will have to self-isolate with no warning. Anyone who doesn't have enough of the basics in the house to last them for at least a week should really do something about that. If you suddenly develop a cough and a fever, I don't want you in the store looking for milk or bread for example.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I think the exhortations not to "hoard" or "panic buy" are misplaced. Don't buy silly amounts of stuff, sure. But there is a possibility that anyone will have to self-isolate with no warning. Anyone who doesn't have enough of the basics in the house to last them for at least a week should really do something about that. If you suddenly develop a cough and a fever, I don't want you in the store looking for milk or bread for example.

True.


I don't know if the supply chain for those items is such that that sort of purchasing would result in the shortages we are seeing, though. If, on a normal day, everyone who didn't have a week's supply of toilet paper went to the store to buy a week's supply of toilet paper, would the store shelves end up empty, three days in a row?

I suppose it's possible, but I doubt it. Even two weeks supply? I think there are plenty of people buying a month's worth or more.


ETA: Paper towels are a different story. People will use more paper towels over the next few weeks than normal, so I can see that selling out due to manufacturing and distribution not being able to keep up with demand.

[Distracted1]

I had cause to stop by a Walgreens on Tuesday. There was little amiss, some TP was on the end caps which I thought little of at the time.

I must confess that even though we currently need nothing from the market, I might stop by one tomorrow just to see with my own eyes what the fuss is about. Ill advised, I guess, but I am doing it anyway.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by carlitos

When they saw no toilet paper, people started buying those vanity fair napkin packs.

Well, at least the plumbing field will make some money out of this. All paper products are not the same: TP is specifically made to break down in water. Paper napkins or towels are specifically made to stay strong when wet. If people flush paper napkins they're going to clog their pipes. What's worse than being homebound during a plague? Being homebound during a plague while ankle deep in poo water!

[casebro]

I'll keep three days worth defrosted in the fridge. That will give me enough time to defrost that Xmas 39 cents/lb turkey. That ought to last 'til the crisis is over.

[Meadmaker]

And, when I left PetSmart with two pails of kitty litter (my normal allotment), there were about ten pails left. I asked the checkout girl about the supply, and she said their normal delivery was on schedule, for Monday.

[Rolfe]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

True.

I don't know if the supply chain for those items is such that that sort of purchasing would result in the shortages we are seeing, though. If, on a normal day, everyone who didn't have a week's supply of toilet paper went to the store to buy a week's supply of toilet paper, would the store shelves end up empty, three days in a row?

I suppose it's possible, but I doubt it. Even two weeks supply? I think there are plenty of people buying a month's worth or more.

ETA: Paper towels are a different story. People will use more paper towels over the next few weeks than normal, so I can see that selling out due to manufacturing and distribution not being able to keep up with demand.

Oh, the toilet paper thing is nuts for sure. Of all the items that one could manage without with a bit of a work-round, that's near the top of the list. But long-life milk, tins of soup, crispbreads, porridge oats, tinned meat and vegetables, that sort of thing, it makes sense.

I was lucky. Early in January 2019 I went on a ten-week cruise. The ship didn't get back to England until less than two weeks before the then Brexit date and I had no confidence we wouldn't crash out with huge disruption. Obviously 12 days was not long enough to rely on getting in a stock of things if it really did look likely they'd be needed.

Starting in November 2018, every time I went to the supermarket or the pet store I bought extra. I had a list on my computer of what I thought I should store, and worked my way through it. I have a large double garage with a ceiling, which forms a loft accessed by a loft ladder from the garage. The space is cool and dry. There's nothing there but empty boxes and a stock of incandescent light bulbs. Or there wasn't.

I carted stuff up a bit at a time, wanting to know that if news reports from Britain in early March spoke of alarm and panic buying, I'd have the security of knowing I had supplies even if the shelves were bare by the time we docked. I thought I'd be eating the stuff through 2019, one way or another.

But the Brexit situation was only repeatedly postponed, never resolved. I couldn't swear even now that we won't crash out at the end of this year, but now that might be the least of our worries. Anyway, although I used the things with the shorter expiry dates last summer, I left all the non-perishables and dry goods where they were.

Last Saturday I went to the International Women's Day protest in front of the Scottish parliament, and on the way home I swung by the supermarket and got pretty much all I needed to replace the items I'd used up. There was very little long-life milk left, but I had a large tin of dried milk and some tins of condensed milk in the stash, and I stuck an extra two pints into my freezer as well. I got everything else.

So when this virus comes into the village, I can stay away from everybody for quite an extended time, without even going to the shop. I even have spare to help neighbours if necessary.

But there's still only a single 16-pack of toilet rolls there. Let's not get ridiculous.