Study estimates that >1.5m Americans have lost health insurance due to Covid-19

Squeegee Beckenheim

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Squeegee Beckenheim
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https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2764415/intersecting-u-s-epidemics-covid-19-lack-health-insurance

We estimated the likely effects of current job losses on the number of uninsured persons by using data from the U.S. Census Bureau's March 2019 Current Population Survey on health insurance coverage rates among persons who lost or left a job. The uninsurance rate among unemployed persons who had lost or left a job was 26.3% versus 10.7% among those with jobs. Applying the 15.6–percentage point difference to the 9.955 million who filed new unemployment claims last week, we estimate that 1.553 million newly unemployed persons will lose health coverage. This figure excludes family members who will become uninsured because a breadwinner lost coverage and self-employed persons who may lose coverage because their businesses were shuttered, but are ineligible for unemployment benefits. If, as the Federal Reserve economist projects, an additional 47.05 million people become unemployed, 7.3 million workers (along with several million family members) are likely to join the ranks of the U.S. uninsured population.
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Well if they're not willing to get a job or stop being poor, I'd say that's on them.
 
Really going to enjoy liberals explaining why going broke from Covid-19 is some affront to human dignity, but going broke from ordinary cancer is essential to the American way of life.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Really going to enjoy liberals explaining why going broke from Covid-19 is some affront to human dignity, but going broke from ordinary cancer is essential to the American way of life.
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:confused: (unless the sarcasm went over my head in which case :o)

I thought that liberals were very much in favour of single-payer universal healthcare to prevent medical bankruptcies, regardless of cause.
 
The Don said:
:confused: (unless the sarcasm went over my head in which case :o)

I thought that liberals were very much in favour of single-payer universal healthcare to prevent medical bankruptcies, regardless of caused.
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Not in the states. Liberals support privatized health insurance via the ACA. Medicare for all is considered the domain of left-wing moon-bats.

People losing their health care because they got fired is an intrinsic feature of the ACA.
 
The Don said:
:confused: (unless the sarcasm went over my head in which case :o)

I thought that liberals were very much in favour of single-payer universal healthcare to prevent medical bankruptcies, regardless of cause.
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You are correct. Unfortunately, the way our government is set up one side can't just wave a magic wand and make universal coverage appear out of thin air. The grown-ups in the room are working on making it happen within the constraints of reality, while having to fight conservatives on the right who are totally against anything and "left-wing moon-bats" on the left who will accept nothing less than immediate magical perfection.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Not in the states. Liberals support privatized health insurance via the ACA. Medicare for all is considered the domain of left-wing moon-bats.

People losing their health care because they got fired is an intrinsic feature of the ACA.
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If you lose your job, you are allowed to apply for subsidized healthcare on the exchange. Also, you may qualify for Medicaid.

ETA: outside of states that didn't expand Medicaid,the article isn't entirely clear why people who lose their jobs do not have insurance. My guess is they have not applied for the affordable benefits they are eligible for.
 
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wareyin said:
You are correct. Unfortunately, the way our government is set up one side can't just wave a magic wand and make universal coverage appear out of thin air. The grown-ups in the room are working on making it happen within the constraints of reality, while having to fight conservatives on the right who are totally against anything and "left-wing moon-bats" on the left who will accept nothing less than immediate magical perfection.
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Cool story, how does that square with Biden saying he would veto M4A if, by some miracle, it managed to come across his desk?

I don't dismiss the pragmatic approach, political realities being the way they are. Don't fool yourself though. There are plenty of liberals who are opposed to universal coverage if it means killing the cash cow of for profit health insurance. This includes Joe.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Cool story, how does that square with Biden saying he would veto M4A if, by some miracle, it managed to come across his desk?

I don't dismiss the pragmatic approach, political realities being the way they are. Don't fool yourself though. There are plenty of liberals who are opposed to universal coverage if it means killing the cash cow of for profit health insurance. This includes Joe.
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There are some good reasons not to kill private insurance....like a massive amount of people don't want you to.
 
BobTheCoward said:
There are some good reasons not to kill private insurance....like a massive amount of people don't want you to.
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Mainly because they don't understand, and won't even TRY to understand, the alternatives.

By comparison, here in Australia, the private health insurance industry is gradually fading away from lack of interest.
 
Forget it. Decided I’m not interested in this discussion at the moment.
 
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BobTheCoward said:
Does it matter?

Out the gate you are asking people with a desire to represent a group of people to have a pretty low regard for the opinions of those people.
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Rubbish. It's deliberate ignorance, pure and simple.

But hey. Everyone go on about people losing health insurance if they lose their jobs due to a pandemic, and we will laugh and wonder why the greatest country on Earth does that to its people in this day and age.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Rubbish. It's deliberate ignorance, pure and simple.
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We are not talking Republicans here. Again, does it matter? Should someone be running for elected office if they feel a plurality of theil people who would support them are deliberately ignorant?

"You! The deliberately ignorant! Vote for me and I promise to not do what you want!"
 
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That estimate strikes me as extremely low. Maybe it's a week or two out of date?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Cool story, how does that square with Biden saying he would veto M4A if, by some miracle, it managed to come across his desk?
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Other than that not being what he said or what he meant? I guess it doesn't. I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you before, but fringe resets happen.

SuburbanTurkey said:
I don't dismiss the pragmatic approach, political realities being the way they are. Don't fool yourself though. There are plenty of liberals who are opposed to universal coverage if it means killing the cash cow of for profit health insurance. This includes Joe.
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Dude, you might not believe it, but there are also plenty of liberals who are so opposed to universal coverage that they plan to vote for Trump and/or work against any chance of universal coverage passing the SCOTUS for decades! Well, they claim to be liberals on internet forums at least.
 
Your falling into a trap here, getting sucked into an argument over the best way to improve health coverage in the USA while Trump does his best to destroy what little progress was made with the ACA.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Cool story, how does that square with Biden saying he would veto M4A if, by some miracle, it managed to come across his desk?

I don't dismiss the pragmatic approach, political realities being the way they are. Don't fool yourself though. There are plenty of liberals who are opposed to universal coverage if it means killing the cash cow of for profit health insurance. This includes Joe.
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Then stop with the damn false equivalencies and "no true liberal" arguments already. I live in Mississippi, surrounded by people whose response to my wondering why the Best And Richest Government Ever! can't afford some kind of system where everyone has health care coverage is usually along the lines of "get the **** out of town, ya damn Commie!" You want UHC; I want UHC; but if I add "but it may take a longer road to get there than either of us would like," I'm told by the Holier Than Thou brigade that I'm really just pretty much the same as as the "**** you, commie" trolls. "Holier Than Thou" isn't a good look on anyone; it's worse when it's directed at folks who share the goals, and differ only on tactics.
 
turingtest said:
Then stop with the damn false equivalencies and "no true liberal" arguments already. I live in Mississippi, surrounded by people whose response to my wondering why the Best And Richest Government Ever! can't afford some kind of system where everyone has health care coverage is usually along the lines of "get the **** out of town, ya damn Commie!" You want UHC; I want UHC; but if I add "but it may take a longer road to get there than either of us would like," I'm told by the Holier Than Thou brigade that I'm really just pretty much the same as as the "**** you, commie" trolls. "Holier Than Thou" isn't a good look on anyone; it's worse when it's directed at folks who share the goals, and differ only on tactics.
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Have you considered that they are right and you are actually just as bad as the people you know?
 
BobTheCoward said:
Why does it strike you as low? What variable makes it different this time?
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Rereading the numbers, it seems they are talking about people who lost, and did not replace, their health insurance. In other words, if they lost their employer's health insurance and do not pick up private insurance, they're in the stats. I was thinking it was just the number of people whose insurance was terminated.

In that case, it sounds a bit optimistic, assuming that 74% of people who lose their jobs will pick up private health insurance, but it is at least possible, especially under the circumstances. I'm sure people who lose their jobs today are more likely to take COBRA or other coverage than they would have been a year ago.

So, maybe it is as low as 1.5 million, today. At least, the methodology is straightforward. What I'm sure of is it's a heck of a mess. Health insurance is expensive, and in America, you only have to pay for it out of pocket when you're broke.

Meanwhile, the subsidies are based on your annual income, not on your current income, which for most people who lose jobs abruptly drops to zero.
 
BobTheCoward said:
If you lose your job, you are allowed to apply for subsidized healthcare on the exchange. Also, you may qualify for Medicaid.

ETA: outside of states that didn't expand Medicaid,the article isn't entirely clear why people who lose their jobs do not have insurance. My guess is they have not applied for the affordable benefits they are eligible for.
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Yeah, why not just apply for benefits? It's not like there's miles of paperwork, or that you have to be unemployed for a period of time, or that there's a ton of backlog right now, or that those departments generally take a long time to work even in normal cases.

Losing your job is considered a "change of life", but that doesn't mean once you say it they just ship you a card in the mail. With most state locations closed it can be next to impossible to get required forms. I know none of this means anything to you because you'll say something completely out left field like, "I didn't say it would be quick" or "I just said that was their option" or "I have no opinion on that". Just figured I'd explain why this isn't as easy as you're implying. You've obviously never had to deal with the process.
 
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plague311 said:
Yeah, why not just apply for benefits? It's not like there's miles of paperwork, or that you have to be unemployed for a period of time, or that there's a ton of backlog right now, or that those departments generally take a long time to work even in normal cases.

Losing your job is considered a "change of life", but that doesn't mean once you say it they just ship you a card in the mail. With most state locations closed it can be next to impossible to get required forms. I know none of this means anything to you because you'll say something completely out left field like, "I didn't say it would be quick" or "I just said that was their option" or "I have no opinion on that". Just figured I'd explain why this isn't as easy as you're implying. You've obviously never had to deal with the process.
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I was responding to someone who wrote this


People losing their health care because they got fired is an intrinsic feature of the ACA.
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I read that as a person not realizing that newly unemployed can apply to the exchange or maybe qualify for Medicaid expansion. The law accounted for the scenario.

I have to respond to the argument I think the person is making. I can't respond to the argument you wish they made.
 
plague311 said:
Yeah, why not just apply for benefits? It's not like there's miles of paperwork, or that you have to be unemployed for a period of time, or that there's a ton of backlog right now, or that those departments generally take a long time to work even in normal cases.
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Actually, I just did all this when I lost a job last year. It's pretty darned simple. I think I had to provide a letter from my HR department saying I had lost my insurance as a result of being terminated. I think HR provided that letter in my termination packet.

Maybe for people who don't have a good HR department it's more complicated.
 
Meadmaker said:
Actually, I just did all this when I lost a job last year. It's pretty darned simple. I think I had to provide a letter from my HR department saying I had lost my insurance as a result of being terminated. I think HR provided that letter in my termination packet.

Maybe for people who don't have a good HR department it's more complicated.
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*facepalm*

Yes, you did it in absolutely normal circumstances. You didn't do it when literally millions are trying to do the same thing. Do you think HR departments are max staffed? I certainly didn't have the experience you did that's for sure. I had to provide proof of address to show I lived in my county, a form like yours that took 2 weeks, and then it took the government over a month to process it. Anecdotal? Yes. However, my child support is much the same. I lost my job and we get to have our child support reviewed once every 3 years for free, by the state. I put in a certified request and they got back to me in 4 weeks. I had to pay my standard amount, without a job, or risk losing my license. I filled out the paperwork, mailed it back and 6 weeks later they gave me the updated amount. So for 2 and a half months I was paying an amount I couldn't afford.

So I'm super happy that yours was just a hop, skip and a jump so that everything worked out. That's awesome. My point being it's obviously not that way for everyone, and we aren't even close to being in normal circumstances.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Really going to enjoy liberals explaining why going broke from Covid-19 is some affront to human dignity, but going broke from ordinary cancer is essential to the American way of life.
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What? Liberals and progressives support universal health care, in one form or another. It's the right-wing that thinks medical bankruptcy is some kind of lifestyle choice.
 
plague311 said:
*facepalm*

Yes, you did it in absolutely normal circumstances. You didn't do it when literally millions are trying to do the same thing. Do you think HR departments are max staffed? I certainly didn't have the experience you did that's for sure. I had to provide proof of address to show I lived in my county, a form like yours that took 2 weeks, and then it took the government over a month to process it. Anecdotal? Yes. However, my child support is much the same. I lost my job and we get to have our child support reviewed once every 3 years for free, by the state. I put in a certified request and they got back to me in 4 weeks. I had to pay my standard amount, without a job, or risk losing my license. I filled out the paperwork, mailed it back and 6 weeks later they gave me the updated amount. So for 2 and a half months I was paying an amount I couldn't afford.

So I'm super happy that yours was just a hop, skip and a jump so that everything worked out. That's awesome. My point being it's obviously not that way for everyone, and we aren't even close to being in normal circumstances.
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The government benefits in general can be a pain in the neck.


Bob was just talking about getting insurance. You go to healthcare.gov and you provide the company some evidence that you are eligible, which is basically some evidence that you were covered by your employer, but now you aren't. It's pretty easy, and I suspect that hasn't changed just because of the large numbers.

Hopefully I won't find out. My job isn't exactly secure in the COVID economy.


The bigger problem is that most people who lose their insurance suddenly find out just how much it costs, and they can't pay the bills. I'm old enough, had a high enough income, and was always a "saver", so I had a rainy day fund. Most people don't.

The whole system is stupid, which is why I started a thread last year, updated for coronavirus issues, called "The American Health Care System is Stupid." I can't stand the fact that there is a connection between my employment and my health care. The two should be completely and totally separate.
 
Meadmaker said:
Actually, I just did all this when I lost a job last year. It's pretty darned simple. I think I had to provide a letter from my HR department saying I had lost my insurance as a result of being terminated. I think HR provided that letter in my termination packet.

Maybe for people who don't have a good HR department it's more complicated.
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What percentage of workers do you think have ANY kind of HR department? Certainly not most people who work for small businesses. And who are suddenly unemployed workers supposed to call when the business itself is closed? We are in truly unprecedented times.
 
Bob001 said:
What percentage of workers do you think have ANY kind of HR department? Certainly not most people who work for small businesses. And who are suddenly unemployed workers supposed to call when the business itself is closed? We are in truly unprecedented times.
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I've always worked in white collar cubicle-land, so that is, I admit, a bit of a sheltered life.

The key element of the document you had to find was a statement that you were covered, and now you aren't. HR provided that, but I'm guessing the insurance company that used to cover you could have provided it.

Yes, I'm sure it's a nuisance, but in the grand scheme of things, not a big deal. You might have to wait on hold for a while, especially as their call volumes are greater than normal.

Losing the health insurance is a big deal, but the paperwork needed to get it back, isn't. The cost is a different story.
 
Meadmaker said:
I've always worked in white collar cubicle-land, so that is, I admit, a bit of a sheltered life.

The key element of the document you had to find was a statement that you were covered, and now you aren't. HR provided that, but I'm guessing the insurance company that used to cover you could have provided it.

Yes, I'm sure it's a nuisance, but in the grand scheme of things, not a big deal. You might have to wait on hold for a while, especially as their call volumes are greater than normal.

Losing the health insurance is a big deal, but the paperwork needed to get it back, isn't. The cost is a different story.
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The barrier is usually cost.

Even with the subsidies, healthcare remains out of reach for many people. Individual market plans can be quite expensive, and COBRA even more so.

The most impoverished people often qualify for Medicaid or other form of low cost or free health coverage, but plenty of working class people find themselves priced out of the market, even for garbage bronze plans.

Some of these plans also are just expensive under-insurance that become prohibitively expensive during periods of heavy use. Deductibles can be in the 5 figures range and reset every year.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Cool story, how does that square with Biden saying he would veto M4A if, by some miracle, it managed to come across his desk?

I don't dismiss the pragmatic approach, political realities being the way they are. Don't fool yourself though. There are plenty of liberals who are opposed to universal coverage if it means killing the cash cow of for profit health insurance. This includes Joe.
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Says the person who wants to make for all a program that is at least 40% private insurance.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Some of these plans also are just expensive under-insurance that become prohibitively expensive during periods of heavy use. Deductibles can be in the 5 figures range and reset every year.
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And not only do they reset each year, they reset when you change insurance, so you paid your deductible for your work plan, then lose your job, so your deductible gets reset. Then, you get a new job, reset again.

Its completely messed up.

(That "getting a new job" probably won't be a problem for a lot of people in the next few months.)

And now, you have a case where people are losing their jobs specifically because of something that is sending a lot of people to intensive care. It's a mess. Goodness knows how we come out of this. If it ends up being as bad is it looks, it might goad the electorate into demanding a change, but that puts us in the lousy of position of thinking, "Maybe if it gets incredibly awful, someone will do something about it."
 
Meadmaker said:
Losing the health insurance is a big deal, but the paperwork needed to get it back, isn't. The cost is a different story.
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Again, this is your experience. It is not reflective of everyone's reality at all. I don't know why you can't see that. Everything isn't just a call away. I get it though, as I've said repeatedly lately, we won't be changing each others minds.

I'll retract my statement. There should be absolutely no issue at all, anywhere in the US, where after they get fired or laid off to get insurance. I was wrong, they should just get the forms, submit them and be ready to go as easily as you were. My bad.
 
Meadmaker said:
And not only do they reset each year, they reset when you change insurance, so you paid your deductible for your work plan, then lose your job, so your deductible gets reset. Then, you get a new job, reset again.

Its completely messed up.

(That "getting a new job" probably won't be a problem for a lot of people in the next few months.)

And now, you have a case where people are losing their jobs specifically because of something that is sending a lot of people to intensive care. It's a mess. Goodness knows how we come out of this. If it ends up being as bad is it looks, it might goad the electorate into demanding a change, but that puts us in the lousy of position of thinking, "Maybe if it gets incredibly awful, someone will do something about it."
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The silver lining is that Covid-19 is a brief illness. Most people only spend a limited time in the ICU before dying or getting better. Hopefully that means some of these people will be able to scrape together enough cash to have health insurance coverage for the critical month or so.

It's not like cancer or other chronic, serious condition in which the private healthcare system will wring out every last red cent over months and months of expensive treatments and drugs.

Of course, don't ask Joe why someone should be go bankrupt from treating these deadly illnesses and not Covid-19.
 
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