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Old 16th April 2020, 10:28 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Idiots. When I saw the picture of these idiots I was completely unsurprised: Right wing extremists.
I wonder where all these Tea Party patriots have been the last three years while Trump was exploding the deficit.

I have this distant, hazy memory of them claiming to care about that...

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ETA: ninja'd by johnny karate
Technically, you were karate’d.
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Old 16th April 2020, 10:31 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And, when all else fails, make stuff up about people.



In my opinion, allowing one person to impose these kinds of incredibly strict restrictions on every aspect of our lives is too much power to put in one person's hands. If Gretchen Whitmer can do it, then Donald Trump can do it. I don't like that idea.
If we allow inter-domicile travel among families, lovers and friends, we might as well forego all restrictions. Because such loci are not isolated to purely 2-point paths independent of all others. They are enmeshed in a larger web of multifarious cross-connections.
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Old 16th April 2020, 10:31 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I wonder where all these Tea Party patriots have been the last three years while Trump was exploding the deficit.

I have this distant, hazy memory of them claiming to care about that...
When I think of MAGA hat wearers, the people at that protest are exactly what I think of.

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Old 16th April 2020, 10:34 AM   #204
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There's a picture going around the newswire of protesters pressed up against the door glass at the Ohio statehouse and it's literally indistinguishable from a scene from a zombie movie. It's straight up the cover art to the Shaun of the Dead DVD.
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Old 16th April 2020, 10:36 AM   #205
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https://twitter.com/Bry_Mac/status/1250155077668605954

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Did previous civilizations deal with whiners like this?

"Man, we've gotta open the gates."
"We've been through this, Phil. The Mongols are still outside."
"But I've gotta harvest my turnips"
"MONGOLS"
"Ugh. But we've been in here or WEEKS."
"That's how sieges work, Phil."

"But the Mongols have barely killed anyone in days."
"That's because of the walls, Phil."
"Are you sure? Maybe the Mongols aren't that dangerous."
"..."
"I'm just saying, how bad could it be. They can't kill ALL of us"
"That is literally the thing they do."
"But my turnips..."
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Old 16th April 2020, 10:40 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
When I think of MAGA hat wearers, the people at that protest are exactly what I think of.
Camouflage is the new black.
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Old 16th April 2020, 10:41 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
There's a picture going around the newswire of protesters pressed up against the door glass at the Ohio statehouse and it's literally indistinguishable from a scene from a zombie movie. It's straight up the cover art to the Shaun of the Dead DVD.
I think 'brain dead' is a pretty accurate description of those idiots.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post


I bet these idiots stop taking their full regimen of antibiotics as soon as they start to feel better despite the instructions on the bottle, too. That bottle can't tell me what to do!
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Old 16th April 2020, 10:56 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Insist that people entering Michigan from other states have to self-isolate for 14 days, for a start.
The way I read the order, I'm not sure it's legal to enter Michigan from another state right now, with the exception of current Michigan residents who are returning home from another state.

Of course, that doesn't apply to people on essential business, as defined by the order.

I suppose it couldn't hurt. Based on our rate of infection, I would be more worried about people coming from Michigan than people going to Michigan. Something that would be more effective, and I'm sure much more popular with the people at the protest, would be banning inter-county travel within Michigan. We have a lot of cases, but almost all of them are in the three counties that make up the Detroit metro area.

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Allowing people to visit with those outside of their homes encourages the spread of the virus, which will kill people.

I don't know enough about Michigan's legislature, how friendly or hostile it is to Whitmer, or how long it takes to get legislation passed, but I'm pretty sure that she did it the way she did because she thought it was the best way to save the greatest number of lives, rather than because she was on a power-trip or was trying to annoy you personally.
Obviously any contact at all between humans creates a risk of virus transmission, so banning all the contact that you could possibly ban is the most effective way to minimize that risk. However, that's impossible. People have to eat. So, they have to get food. Preparing food for others is still legal, so people have to prepare and distribute that food. It is impossible to prevent all human contact. So, given that, it's reasonable to ask which human contact ought to be allowed, and who has the authority to make that decision?

If I go to the grocery store and buy food, I am allowed to take it to my mother. However, if I just go to mom's house, without the food, that's illegal. Does that make any sense? Even if it does "make sense', I.e. there is some logic to it, is that a good idea?

And, who gets to answer that question? This is a case where reasonable people could disagree on the answer. Some people might demand a strict, no questions asked, stay at home order, whereas others might be willing to make certain exceptions for small group gatherings, especially of related individuals. Discussing separation of powers is pretty dry stuff, but I contend that handing that power to the executive branch, embodied by a single person, makes less sense than empowering the legislative branch through the normal legislative process.*

Your argument above seems to be that if the legislature would not go along with it, then the executive can act anyway. What's the point of having a legislature, then?

Well, we also have a judicial branch and, to no one's surprise, the governor is being sued, so the courts will sort it out, if they can do so before the restrictions are lifted and the suit is rendered moot.

*ETA: In other words, I trust congress more than Trump.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 16th April 2020 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 16th April 2020, 11:19 AM   #209
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Hoo boy. My best friend's daughter is planning a wedding about 9 weeks from now, in an area close to Detroit. They haven't canceled or postponed it yet, despite everything that's going on. This will have people coming (if it happens) from all over the country. People have to make plans. She's told him they are planning as if there'll be no issues, but knows full well there will likely be issues. The venues are all paid, but are will to work with everyone given the circumstances, but postponement means accepting whatever date is available in the future, since others have already scheduled events well into the future. And now there's all new restrictions. Granted, two months from now things could be on the way back to normal, orrrrr... I feel for her, him, his wife, and their future son-in-law.
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Old 16th April 2020, 11:19 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
There's a picture going around the newswire of protesters pressed up against the door glass at the Ohio statehouse and it's literally indistinguishable from a scene from a zombie movie. It's straight up the cover art to the Shaun of the Dead DVD.
That’s going to be the go-to photo to symbolize this whole **** show when it’s all over.
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Old 16th April 2020, 11:53 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Hoo boy. My best friend's daughter is planning a wedding about 9 weeks from now, in an area close to Detroit. They haven't canceled or postponed it yet, despite everything that's going on. This will have people coming (if it happens) from all over the country. People have to make plans. She's told him they are planning as if there'll be no issues, but knows full well there will likely be issues. The venues are all paid, but are will to work with everyone given the circumstances, but postponement means accepting whatever date is available in the future, since others have already scheduled events well into the future. And now there's all new restrictions. Granted, two months from now things could be on the way back to normal, orrrrr... I feel for her, him, his wife, and their future son-in-law.
Upcoming family wedding here too in...

wait for it...

New York City.

The date's been pushed back a tad.
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Old 16th April 2020, 01:19 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Agreed. The psychology of religion is what's always fascinated me. People are not comfortable with "I don't know". They want answers for everything and are willing to accept almost any explanation, no matter how unfounded on logic, history, science, common sense or how contradictory, rather than accept there is no answer. Religion truly is the opium of the masses.
I think it starts with kids. Kids, being kids, like to ask questions. So you make **** up for awhile, until you give up and just say "because God" and hope they leave you alone.
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Old 16th April 2020, 02:05 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
I think it starts with kids. Kids, being kids, like to ask questions. So you make **** up for awhile, until you give up and just say "because God" and hope they leave you alone.
I'm pretty sure that's what adults tell each other and themselves. [/# off topic]
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Old 16th April 2020, 02:09 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Hoo boy. My best friend's daughter is planning a wedding about 9 weeks from now, in an area close to Detroit. They haven't canceled or postponed it yet, despite everything that's going on. This will have people coming (if it happens) from all over the country. People have to make plans. She's told him they are planning as if there'll be no issues, but knows full well there will likely be issues. The venues are all paid, but are will to work with everyone given the circumstances, but postponement means accepting whatever date is available in the future, since others have already scheduled events well into the future. And now there's all new restrictions. Granted, two months from now things could be on the way back to normal, orrrrr... I feel for her, him, his wife, and their future son-in-law.
Co-worker here in the UK was scheduled to get married in June. They pushed it back...to next year.
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Old 16th April 2020, 02:14 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
I think it starts with kids. Kids, being kids, like to ask questions. So you make **** up for awhile, until you give up and just say "because God" and hope they leave you alone.
My mom's final answer was a good one, imo. "I'm the mom, I know everything. And what I don't know I make up."
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Old 16th April 2020, 02:26 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
My mom's final answer was a good one, imo. "I'm the mom, I know everything. And what I don't know I make up."
You have to admire the honesty of that statement.
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:05 PM   #217
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I see Pinocchio the Wooden Man-boy is giving his usual, "Ain't I done good?" presser speech in his own inimitable "I don't understand what I'm reading" style. Whenever he's just reading, he becomes stilted and monotone but when be goes off script you see a notable difference in how he sounds and looks.

Incredible, like never seen before, tremendous, early and aggressive action, no person who needed a ventilator has been denied one, greatest economy in the history of the world, great again, war, war, war, media falsely reported, blah blah blah. This concludes my rally. Trump 2020!

Quote:
"America wants to be open and Americans want to be open."
What an odd sentence. A country can't 'want' anything; it's the people who make up that country who can 'want' something

Last edited by Stacyhs; 16th April 2020 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:12 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
You have to admire the honesty of that statement.
I always appreciated it.
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:17 PM   #219
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Trump is hinting at using the Swedish model, shelter high risk people, everyone can go out and get infected. He also still imagines this is going away in the summer.

He's such an ass. After being told he cannot tell the states what to do, he's now saying he gives them permission to do what they decide.

He's going on about the incredibly long way we've come in treatment. I don't believe he mentioned hydroxychloroquine.

He's repeating the lie/distortion we've done more testing than any other country.

Rate of coronavirus (COVID-19) tests performed in select countries worldwide as of April 15, 2020 (per thousand population)*

We are far down on the list.

Now Pence is praising Trump's bold actions.... yada yada.
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Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 16th April 2020 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:21 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump is hinting at using the Swedish model, shelter high risk people, everyone can go out and get infected.
I wonder if he considers himself to be high risk? On the one hand he's got a reputation as a germaphobe, on the other hand he's got a history of being in denial about his own health. He also enjoys flying in the face of all expert advice to the contrary (see: total eclipses of the sun, don't stare directly into).
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:24 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I wonder if he considers himself to be high risk? On the one hand he's got a reputation as a germaphobe, on the other hand he's got a history of being in denial about his own health. He also enjoys flying in the face of all expert advice to the contrary (see: total eclipses of the sun, don't stare directly into).
He surely knows full well if he or any of his family gets COVID, like Cheney's heart transplant, the Trumps will have priority for plasma antibody infusion.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:32 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I wonder if he considers himself to be high risk? On the one hand he's got a reputation as a germaphobe, on the other hand he's got a history of being in denial about his own health. He also enjoys flying in the face of all expert advice to the contrary (see: total eclipses of the sun, don't stare directly into).
Oh, come now. His doctor told us he's the healthiest man ever elected to the presidency. Would he lie?
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:33 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
He's such an ass. After being told he cannot tell the states what to do, he's now saying he gives them permission to do what they decide.
This is so hilarious. "Do whatever you want, and we'll call it my idea."
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:36 PM   #224
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I wonder if Dr Birx is aware the ILI monitoring system is normally is shut down from May through Oct?

She is suggesting we can use it to surveil COVID cases now that flu has subsided.

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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:54 PM   #225
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Watching the difference between Trump just answering questions and reading is like watching two different people.

Did anyone notice that when Trump was asked what he would say to the Michigan protesters that he never actually answered the question? He danced all around it.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 16th April 2020 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 16th April 2020, 04:06 PM   #226
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When was the last time he actually answered a question that he was asked?
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Old 16th April 2020, 04:08 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
When was the last time he actually answered a question that he was asked?
"Sir, would you like ketchup for your steak?"
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Old 16th April 2020, 04:11 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Watching the difference between Trump just answering questions and reading is like watching two different people.

Did anyone notice that when Trump was asked what he would say to the Michigan protesters that he never actually answered the question? He danced all around it.
He just did the same when asked if they had modeled what would happen if they open the country and there's a resurgence. Instead he rambled about how great he is and what the death rate would have been without him.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 16th April 2020, 04:22 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
He just did the same when asked if they had modeled what would happen if they open the country and there's a resurgence. Instead he rambled about how great he is and what the death rate would have been without him.

I was just going to mention that. You beat me to it.

The question was clear but, as you said, he didn't answer it at all.
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Old 16th April 2020, 04:45 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump is hinting at using the Swedish model,
An advisor got as far as, 'Using the Swedish model,' before Trump said he already did, and bragged about where he grabbed her.
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Old 16th April 2020, 05:03 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
An advisor got as far as, 'Using the Swedish model,' before Trump said he already did, and bragged about where he grabbed her.
I'm on tapacrappe just now, but am SO going to nom that when I get on the computer.
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Old 16th April 2020, 07:22 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
An advisor got as far as, 'Using the Swedish model,' before Trump said he already did, and bragged about where he grabbed her.
Well done!
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Old 16th April 2020, 07:51 PM   #233
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Food for thought...

I'm confident the Opening Our Country Council is weighing numbers similar to [Dr. Oz's economy/death calculus] where Oz says he figures 15 million dead Americans is just the eggs you gotta break to puff up Wall St.'s omelette.

Are all those Obamacare-haters who voted for Trump going to recognize that they elected the first president to actually establish a national scale Death Panel?
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Old 16th April 2020, 08:30 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
"Sir, would you like ketchup for your steak?"
I just don't understand how it didn't end there.
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Old 16th April 2020, 08:47 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
An advisor got as far as, 'Using the Swedish model,' before Trump said he already did, and bragged about where he grabbed her.


What a powerful hold he put on that...
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Old 16th April 2020, 10:01 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
That's why I said "at best."

All the advocates are acting like this is going to be a game changer. As I noted, even with something that works (Tamiflu) the flu still kills thousands a year.

What we need is a vaccine to stop people from getting it in the first place. Even then, it may not be perfect (again see the flu) but we need that exposure.
We could definitely use a vaccine, for sure. Tamiflu is a 'game-changer' not because it prevents all deaths from flu when used, but because it shortens symptom duration by up to 50%--greatly reducing the time the virus can multiply and making it easier for your immune system to fight it. Does have some side effects, some rare nasty ones too.

The malaria/lupus drug doesn't have ANY impact on covid19. NONE. AND it has nasty side effects in the best of cases, not even rarely. We mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, but the drug isn't even good. It doesn't work. Those advocates all *need* it to be a game changer, a miracle cure, something effective, but it's nothing of the sort.
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Old 16th April 2020, 10:42 PM   #237
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Do you want to join the economic council that Trump wanted to set up to advise him on re-opening the economy? Well, you might already be a member and not know it!

From: https://www.salon.com/2020/04/16/sht...em-a-heads-up/
Trump announced that he would form several "Great American Economic Revival Industry Groups" and read off a long list of agriculture executives, bankers, labor leaders, defense contractors, energy firms, health care executives, restaurateurs and other business leaders. But many of the people on the list did not learn that they were part of the White House effort until they heard their names read on TV...
...
Some of the executives were so blindsided they were unable to participate in Wednesday's calls... One executive who participated in the call described it to the outlet as a "sh*t show." Others pushed back on Trump's calls to quickly lift coronavirus restrictions in order to reopen the economy.


Of course, who wouldn't jump at the chance to work with Trump. Nothing bad could ever come from working with an incompetent con-man who will listen to the advice of experts, then promptly ignore that advice and do what his "instincts" tell him to do (even if what he wants to do is illegal).
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Old 17th April 2020, 12:00 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
We could definitely use a vaccine, for sure. Tamiflu is a 'game-changer' not because it prevents all deaths from flu when used, but because it shortens symptom duration by up to 50%--greatly reducing the time the virus can multiply and making it easier for your immune system to fight it. Does have some side effects, some rare nasty ones too.

The malaria/lupus drug doesn't have ANY impact on covid19. NONE. AND it has nasty side effects in the best of cases, not even rarely. We mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, but the drug isn't even good. It doesn't work. Those advocates all *need* it to be a game changer, a miracle cure, something effective, but it's nothing of the sort.
It will be interesting to see how Trump tries to spin it when/if it's proved to be completely ineffective. Will he try and revise history (again) and claim he never said it?
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Old 17th April 2020, 01:26 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The way I read the order, I'm not sure it's legal to enter Michigan from another state right now, with the exception of current Michigan residents who are returning home from another state.
...who should self-isolate for 14 days.

Even more stringent restrictions are possible, and should be welcomed (I would certainly welcome them in the UK). See how Greece is handling it, for example. They have 10 deaths per million population. Or, to put it another way, 21 times fewer than Michigan (which has risen to 210 since yesterday).

Quote:
If I go to the grocery store and buy food, I am allowed to take it to my mother. However, if I just go to mom's house, without the food, that's illegal. Does that make any sense?
Yes. Because you can leave the food at the door.

Quote:
Even if it does "make sense', I.e. there is some logic to it, is that a good idea?
Yes.

Quote:
And, who gets to answer that question?
In this case, the governor.

Quote:
This is a case where reasonable people could disagree on the answer. Some people might demand a strict, no questions asked, stay at home order, whereas others might be willing to make certain exceptions for small group gatherings, especially of related individuals. Discussing separation of powers is pretty dry stuff, but I contend that handing that power to the executive branch, embodied by a single person, makes less sense than empowering the legislative branch through the normal legislative process.*
Saving as many lives as possible should be the number 1 priority.
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Old 17th April 2020, 01:28 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Hoo boy. My best friend's daughter is planning a wedding about 9 weeks from now, in an area close to Detroit. They haven't canceled or postponed it yet, despite everything that's going on. This will have people coming (if it happens) from all over the country. People have to make plans. She's told him they are planning as if there'll be no issues, but knows full well there will likely be issues. The venues are all paid, but are will to work with everyone given the circumstances, but postponement means accepting whatever date is available in the future, since others have already scheduled events well into the future. And now there's all new restrictions. Granted, two months from now things could be on the way back to normal, orrrrr... I feel for her, him, his wife, and their future son-in-law.
I wonder if it's legal to get married over Zoom?
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