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Old 22nd May 2020, 10:32 AM   #2401
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Out of curiosity though. Are Tories running around the UK saying it's a hoax and there is no need to wear a mask?
Our lunacy has more tended towards the "burning down 5G masts" variety.

But there's certainly no sense that we've got the 2nd highest death toll in the world. It's more seen as a bit of a bother than anything, and since restrictions have been eased you almost wouldn't know in some ways that there's a lockdown in place at all.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 10:43 AM   #2402
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I was looking at news articles having to do with, "Why do people not want to wear face masks?" Several health officials made the point that it is to protect you from something you can't see. Thus some people don't 'get it' in a visceral sense. One public health official said that making it more problematic was the "mixed signals" the American public is getting from the White House where many of the officials don't wear face masks and don't practice social distancing, either. They singled out president trump by name.

It occurred to me that the greatest contribution trump could make to the public health right now is -- and I don't say this because I don't like him (and I don't) -- but trump could probably do nothing better for the health of Americans than to get sick himself with coronavirus. That would probably be a real 'game changer,' to use a word trump likes. But it's undoubtedly true.
Anti-Mask confrontation at Costco (Daily Show)


Laura Ingraham(Fox News) quotes Rush Limbaugh "masks promote fear" (Seth Myers)
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Old 22nd May 2020, 10:52 AM   #2403
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Our lunacy has more tended towards the "burning down 5G masts" variety.

But there's certainly no sense that we've got the 2nd highest death toll in the world. It's more seen as a bit of a bother than anything, and since restrictions have been eased you almost wouldn't know in some ways that there's a lockdown in place at all.
Burning down 5G masts? What is all that about?
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Old 22nd May 2020, 10:57 AM   #2404
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Burning down 5G masts? What is all that about?
77 phone masts (the majority of which weren't even 5G capable ironically enough) have been burned, damaged, or vandalized since early April in the UK, and at least one Field Engineer working on one of the towers was stabbed.

https://www.businessinsider.com/77-p...-theory-2020-5
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:01 AM   #2405
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Burning down 5G masts? What is all that about?
There's a conspiracy theory that 5G is the cause of the virus. As far as I can figure out, it's because a Chinese company is helping with it in the UK, and the virus originated in China. So, you know, they must be related.

And then you can blame an evil, nebulous "them" for everything.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:01 AM   #2406
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Sky and Virgin field engineers visiting homes to fix problems with internet and TV have also been harassed and assaulted.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:04 AM   #2407
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
There's a conspiracy theory that 5G is the cause of the virus. As far as I can figure out, it's because a Chinese company is helping with it in the UK, and the virus originated in China. So, you know, they must be related.

And then you can blame an evil, nebulous "them" for everything.
Our resident 5G conspiracy theorist, PartSkeptic, maintains that 'electrosmog' is damaging everybody's immune system, and hence making the coronavirus pandemic (which was, of course, sent by God to reduce the population, just like God told him he would) worse than it would otherwise be.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:13 AM   #2408
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
There's a conspiracy theory that 5G is the cause of the virus. As far as I can figure out, it's because a Chinese company is helping with it in the UK, and the virus originated in China. So, you know, they must be related.

And then you can blame an evil, nebulous "them" for everything.
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Our resident 5G conspiracy theorist, PartSkeptic, maintains that 'electrosmog' is damaging everybody's immune system, and hence making the coronavirus pandemic (which was, of course, sent by God to reduce the population, just like God told him he would) worse than it would otherwise be.

Things don’t get much more nebulous and evil than PartSkeptic’s god.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:15 AM   #2409
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I really feel, with everything that's going on, most people can't take much more of this idiot. I know I can't. Yes the god/emperor did wear a mask. Big effing deal.
I can almost understand him, he looked absolutely ridiculous wearing it .
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:20 AM   #2410
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Trump is demanding that governors allow churches to open on Sunday and threatening to override them if they don't. What an idiot.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:22 AM   #2411
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Well. Looks like Trump has declared religious gatherings as essential. Says t hat governors will be forced to allow places of worship to open.

Do you want more deaths? This is how you get more deaths.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:27 AM   #2412
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Texas is a lot more open than Michigan now, and as of today, they have surpassed us in the number of reported coronavirus cases.

Here is Michigan, we are opening up, too, but slowly. I can't say whether that's good or bad. There are tradeoffs. What I know is that the lockdown measures have been effective, and getting rid of those measures will accelerate spread of the disease. I wish that the anti-lockdown folks would just acknowledge that.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:29 AM   #2413
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Well. Looks like Trump has declared religious gatherings as essential. Says t hat governors will be forced to allow places of worship to open.

Do you want more deaths? This is how you get more deaths.
You know who doesn't actually have any authority to override the governors? Trump! Remember folks, the Republicans are the party of state's rights and small government!
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:31 AM   #2414
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Well, a single person in charge of everything certainly is a small government...
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:34 AM   #2415
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
You know who doesn't actually have any authority to override the governors? Trump! Remember folks, the Republicans are the party of state's rights and small government!
He'll just cut funding to the states that hold to it. In the mean time, places of worship that are more conservative will open up anyways (Trump said we could!) and more people will get sick. Like you, I'm in Washington,l and I think Inslee is doing a decent job at slowly reopening. This order of Trumps will only make things worse. I need to get back to work damnit, AND NOT GET SICK.

My job has me traveling all over the puget sound, going to all sorts businesses. I was furloughed fairly quickly, but this will take longer now!
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:43 AM   #2416
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
He'll just cut funding to the states that hold to it. In the mean time, places of worship that are more conservative will open up anyways (Trump said we could!) and more people will get sick. Like you, I'm in Washington,l and I think Inslee is doing a decent job at slowly reopening. This order of Trumps will only make things worse. I need to get back to work damnit, AND NOT GET SICK.

My job has me traveling all over the puget sound, going to all sorts businesses. I was furloughed fairly quickly, but this will take longer now!
He actually can't do that without Congress' consent. Of course, nobody holds him accountable for ANYTHING, so we'll see.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:45 AM   #2417
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
There's a conspiracy theory that 5G is the cause of the virus. As far as I can figure out, it's because a Chinese company is helping with it in the UK, and the virus originated in China. So, you know, they must be related.

And then you can blame an evil, nebulous "them" for everything.
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Our resident 5G conspiracy theorist, PartSkeptic, maintains that 'electrosmog' is damaging everybody's immune system, and hence making the coronavirus pandemic (which was, of course, sent by God to reduce the population, just like God told him he would) worse than it would otherwise be.
People really are idiots. Every second you are bombarded with a variety of radio waves over a very broad spectrum. What makes them think that this particular spectrum is dangerous? I bet these people aren't worried about AM, FM, TV, short wave, WIFI not to mention the radio spectrum from the stars.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:48 AM   #2418
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
He actually can't do that without Congress' consent. Of course, nobody holds him accountable for ANYTHING, so we'll see.
Oh, of course. The Governors will fight, and say he doesn't have that right. Hard line conservatives will cry 'mah freedums!'. Its going to be a ********. People will die.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:48 AM   #2419
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Well. Looks like Trump has declared religious gatherings as essential. Says t hat governors will be forced to allow places of worship to open.

Do you want more deaths? This is how you get more deaths.
The last thing in the world I would do is pack into a church. Really has to be a selfish pastor to endanger the health of his congregation.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 11:53 AM   #2420
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
People really are idiots. Every second you are bombarded with a variety of radio waves over a very broad spectrum. What makes them think that this particular spectrum is dangerous? I bet these people aren't worried about AM, FM, TV, short wave, WIFI not to mention the radio spectrum from the stars.

Blaming an active outside force for something bad is more comforting than accepting that bad things happen for no reason and there's nothing you can do about it. A couple decades ago I saw a study that claimed to show that using electric razors caused leukemia. Unfortunately, the way they had their data set up actually showed that leukemia caused the use of electric razors. (Rate of electric razor use among leukemia patients instead of leukemia rates among electric razor users)
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Old 22nd May 2020, 12:04 PM   #2421
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Texas is a lot more open than Michigan now, and as of today, they have surpassed us in the number of reported coronavirus cases.

Here is Michigan, we are opening up, too, but slowly. I can't say whether that's good or bad. There are tradeoffs. What I know is that the lockdown measures have been effective, and getting rid of those measures will accelerate spread of the disease. I wish that the anti-lockdown folks would just acknowledge that.
I expect a spike in cases in Northern MI in about 2 weeks. With the UP and Northern upper allowed to start opening up, the down state folks have been flocking in. Down town Traverse City has already been over run with out of town and out of state tourists.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 12:08 PM   #2422
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
The last thing in the world I would do is pack into a church. Really has to be a selfish pastor to endanger the health of his congregation.
The word is greedy. They need the tithing, and donations.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 12:24 PM   #2423
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
I suppose it depends on what figures are used for the calculation. Worldometer is I suppose as reliable as any, and it shows total world cases as 5,186,827 and deaths at 333,969. So, 6.4% of those who have actually caught it have died.



In the context of total world population of 7.5 Billion, and including people who have not caught it, the total is really next to zero.


Norm
Okay, ignore the fact that each and everyone of those 333,969 (!) was real person with hopes, dreams, and loved ones just like you, or me. Ignore the fact that many, many of the 5 million who had covid-19 but didn’t die still suffered a horrible disease.

Instead, just as a math exercise, calculate how many would have died had no restrictions been put into place and say 50% or more of the world's population became infected.

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Old 22nd May 2020, 01:15 PM   #2424
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Trump is demanding that governors allow churches to open on Sunday and threatening to override them if they don't. What an idiot.
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Well. Looks like Trump has declared religious gatherings as essential. Says t hat governors will be forced to allow places of worship to open.

Do you want more deaths? This is how you get more deaths.
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
You know who doesn't actually have any authority to override the governors? Trump! Remember folks, the Republicans are the party of state's rights and small government!
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
The word is greedy. They need the tithing, and donations.
Today's press conference was maddeningly dishonest.

Trump said all places of worship were to open and if governors didn't do it he would override them; then he walked out without answering any questions. Later McEnany came on to deny Trump said what he had just said, claiming it was up to governors. She ended by declaring a long list of all the false charges against the Obama administration over the Russia investigation then stormed out.

In between Birx distorted CDC data pretending it's all rosy, "See all the Covid is going away because the ILI (influenza like illness) reports are down and flu surveillance using ILI shows all the states except two turning green on the map." "The country's green, it's all gone." [paraphrasing, but not by much]

She's ignorant of what the ILI report actually is. I wouldn't be shocked if that were Trump. But Birx is supposed to be familiar with the CDC. Apparently if you work in HIV it takes months to get up to speed on influenza and what the ILI report actually is.

This is what the ILI is:
Quote:
2. Outpatient Illness Surveillance

Information on outpatient visits to health care providers for influenza-like illness is collected through the U.S. Outpatient Influenza-like Illness Surveillance Network (ILINet). ILINet consists of outpatient healthcare providers in all 50 states, Puerto Rico, the District of Columbia and the U.S. Virgin Islands reporting approximately 60 million patient visits during the 2018-19 season. Each week, approximately 2,600 outpatient healthcare providers around the country report data to CDC on the total number of patients seen for any reason and the number of those patients with influenza-like illness (ILI) by age group (0-4 years, 5-24 years, 25-49 years, 50-64 years, and ≥65 years). For this system, ILI is defined as fever (temperature of 100°F [37.8°C] or greater) and a cough and/or a sore throat without a known cause other than influenza. Sites with electronic health records use an equivalent definition as determined by public health authorities.
It has included reports from EDs for the last dozen years.

But the bottom line is, a large percentage of the sentinel clinics are closed. And people with ILIs aren't going to the EDs because they are afraid to or they call their providers and manage with a phone visit. So the measure isn't valid for COVID 19 monitoring!

Does Birx know this and is essentially pandering to Trump? Is she willfully naive? Or is she just an ignorant doctor out of her realm, looking at flu data not HIV data?

Meanwhile if you look up the actual COVID 19 data instead of the distorted 'it's all green, see' map, cases are on a very slow downward trend and are nowhere close to 'all the states are green'.

This includes Florida covering up cases and more than a few cases going undetected because there's still not enough testing going on.


At least this press briefing was short.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 01:27 PM   #2425
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Well. Looks like Trump has declared religious gatherings as essential. Says t hat governors will be forced to allow places of worship to open.

Do you want more deaths? This is how you get more deaths.
What's truly despicable -- except for trump, with him it's business as usual -- this is probably related to his slipping poll numbers with white evangelicals and white Catholics.
Quote:
A sudden shift in support for Donald Trump among religious conservatives is triggering alarm bells inside his reelection campaign, where top aides have long banked on expanding the president’s evangelical base as a key part of their strategy for victory this November...

To safeguard his relationship with religious conservatives, Trump on Friday demanded that America‘s governors permit houses of worship to immediately reopen, and threatened to “override“ state leaders who decline to obey his directive. The announcement — which came days after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention omitted religious institutions in new guidance about industry reopenings — featured clear appeals to white evangelicals, many of whom have long supported Trump's socially conservative agenda. “Some governors have deemed liquor stores and abortion clinics as essential, but have left out churches and other houses of worship. It's not right. So, I'm correcting this injustice and calling houses of worship essential,“ Trump said. Link to report in Politico.com
The fact is, polling shows most Americans prefer 'too slow' to 'too fast.'

What is so tough to take with trump is, even in a time of national crisis, he uses crude rhetoric and tactics to keep everything stirred up. He could pursue the same policy objectives but do it without the name-calling and demonizing anyone who disagrees with him. To keep stirring everything up at a time like this is really heartless. For an American president to do it and KEEP doing it is off-the-charts.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 01:38 PM   #2426
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
What's truly despicable -- except for trump, with him it's business as usual -- this is probably related to his slipping poll numbers with white evangelicals and white Catholics.
Looking at his tweets, the polls are all he cares about. He wants to look good. he wants to be loved, and fawned, and revered. Whenever a poll shows slipping numbers, he immediately attacks. Part of the reason he keeps hyping drugs and treatments. he wants to win. If he ends up being the savior, then everything is forgiven!

Quote:
The fact is, polling shows most Americans prefer 'too slow' to 'too fast.'

What is so tough to take with trump is, even in a time of national crisis, he uses crude rhetoric and tactics to keep everything stirred up. He could pursue the same policy objectives but do it without the name-calling and demonizing anyone who disagrees with him. To keep stirring everything up at a time like this is really heartless. For an American president to do it and KEEP doing it is off-the-charts.
All he has to do is shut up. Stop tweeting, stop name calling, and let the experts talk. He'll look more presidential, and his polls would immediately improve!
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Old 22nd May 2020, 01:58 PM   #2427
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Looking at his tweets, the polls are all he cares about. He wants to look good. he wants to be loved, and fawned, and revered. Whenever a poll shows slipping numbers, he immediately attacks. Part of the reason he keeps hyping drugs and treatments. he wants to win. If he ends up being the savior, then everything is forgiven!



All he has to do is shut up. Stop tweeting, stop name calling, and let the experts talk. He'll look more presidential, and his polls would immediately improve!
I agree with this. The man is beyond awful. He's the least Presidential leader maybe ever. Certainly in my lifetime. And as bad as Harding, Hoover and Coolidge were they didn't spend their time as President attacking everyone and anyone. It's amazing how petty and vindictive Trump is.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 01:58 PM   #2428
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
The guy who refused to wear a mask stated he wasn't 'a sheep'. He's right: sheep are smarter.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 02:03 PM   #2429
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Oh, of course. The non-sycophant Governors will fight, and say he doesn't have that right. Hard line conservatives will cry 'mah freedums!'. Its going to be a ********. People will die.
FTFY
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Old 22nd May 2020, 02:13 PM   #2430
Giordano
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The guy who refused to wear a mask stated he wasn't 'a sheep'. He's right: sheep are smarter.
I've got to hand it to these idiots. "I am not a sheep so I am going to join a bunch of other ignorant people who buy into ridiculous conspiracy/political beliefs rather than the established medical science." Not only are they sheep but they are the stupid sheep who have decided that all the warnings about wolves are a fraud and it's the sheep dogs who are their enemies.

Last edited by Giordano; 22nd May 2020 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 02:23 PM   #2431
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Today's press conference was maddeningly dishonest.
>snip>

She ended by declaring a long list of all the false charges against the Obama administration over the Russia investigation then stormed out.
A reporter from the extreme right wing OAN asked McEnany if Trump was considering pardoning Obama "for illegally wiretapping Trump Tower". Of course, no evidence of that ever having occurred exists. McEnany replied

Quote:
“I have not spoken to the president about that, but who I did speak to about the unmasking of Michael Flynn were the people in this room. I haven’t spoken to him about that specific point. Have spoken to him about the matter generally, and I laid out a series of questions that any good journalist would want answers to about why people were unmasked.”
McEnany used this to then bring up an obviously pre-planned slide presentation on the "conspiracy" against Flynn and 'Obamagate'. Which of course, was the entire purpose of the OAN plant...er….reporter asking her such a stupid question.

Quote:
The White House has elevated conservative propaganda outfits like One America News to be able to ask questions at the press briefings because that is the only way that they will be able to inject questions loaded with conspiracies and misinformation into the briefings and mislead the American people.

The pattern for these briefings is that McEnany will at some point do her little song and dance and then end the briefing.
https://www.politicususa.com/2020/05...don-obama.html
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Old 22nd May 2020, 02:24 PM   #2432
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Okay, ignore the fact that each and everyone of those 333,969 (!) was real person with hopes, dreams, and loved ones just like you, or me. Ignore the fact that many, many of the 5 million who had covid-19 but didn’t die still suffered a horrible disease.

Instead, just as a math exercise, calculate how many would have died had no restrictions been put into place and say 50% or more of the world's population became infected.
Many of those 5 million may still die of Coronavirus. Just because they're not dead yet doesn't mean that they will recover.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 02:26 PM   #2433
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I've got to hand it to these idiots. "I am not a sheep so I am going to join a bunch of other ignorant people who buy into ridiculous conspiracy/political beliefs rather than the established medical science." Not only are they sheep but they are stupid sheep who have decided that all the warnings about wolves are a fraud and it's the sheep dogs who are their enemies.
So true.

They also remind me of lemmings:

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Old 22nd May 2020, 02:29 PM   #2434
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
A reporter from the extreme right wing OAN asked McEnany if Trump was considering pardoning Obama "for illegally wiretapping Trump Tower". Of course, no evidence of that ever having occurred exists. McEnany replied

McEnany used this to then bring up an obviously pre-planned slide presentation on the "conspiracy" against Flynn and 'Obamagate'. Which of course, was the entire purpose of the OAN plant...er….reporter asking her such a stupid question.

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/05...don-obama.html
Thanks for adding those important details.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 02:47 PM   #2435
fromdownunder
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Okay, ignore the fact that each and everyone of those 333,969 (!) was real person with hopes, dreams, and loved ones just like you, or me. Ignore the fact that many, many of the 5 million who had covid-19 but didn’t die still suffered a horrible disease.

Instead, just as a math exercise, calculate how many would have died had no restrictions been put into place and say 50% or more of the world's population became infected.

My response was purely in the context of responding to the suggestion that the death rate is supposed to be around "1%", and what that even meant in different contexts.



1% of what? is all I was trying to say. If I phrased it badly, and it looks like I did, I apologise.



Norm
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Old 22nd May 2020, 03:19 PM   #2436
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
So true.

They also remind me of lemmings:

In the sense of being manipulated into staged self-destructive behavior by an uncaring person putting on a show with no regard for reality.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 03:24 PM   #2437
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I've got to hand it to these idiots. "I am not a sheep so I am going to join a bunch of other ignorant people who buy into ridiculous conspiracy/political beliefs rather than the established medical science." Not only are they sheep but they are the stupid sheep who have decided that all the warnings about wolves are a fraud and it's the sheep dogs who are their enemies.
I love the Qanon slogan WWG1WGA: Where We Go 1 We Go All; I imagine the troll behind the whole mess smiles every time his sheep use it.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 03:58 PM   #2438
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Many of those 5 million may still die of Coronavirus. Just because they're not dead yet doesn't mean that they will recover.
What we are buying is time.
Time to learn how to treat those infected.
Time to develop a vaccine.
Time to live.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 04:03 PM   #2439
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What we are buying is time.
Time to learn how to treat those infected.
Time to develop a vaccine.
Time to live.
A large portion of the social distancing and stay at home orders are to help prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed.

We need that herd immunity, which we can't have until there is a vaccine. And I think we're out of time.
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Old 22nd May 2020, 04:16 PM   #2440
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
A large portion of the social distancing and stay at home orders are to help prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed.

We need that herd immunity, which we can't have until there is a vaccine. And I think we're out of time.
Are we? Why?
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