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#81 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,455
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While we’re on the subject of food and it’s ultimate “outcome”.
Australia to test sewage for coronavirus as testing net widens As the Federal Government ramps up its response to the coronavirus pandemic, what we flush down the toilet could soon play a role in tracking and stemming the spread of COVID-19. |
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"A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald |
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#82 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,849
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Here we are again, here's what they said:
Quote:
Of course not. Let's just assume it's OK because that's more convenient than saying, "we don't know." Look what else they said:
Quote:
![]() As for refrigerate or freeze within 2 hours? This virus survives longer frozen. No mention of that or of careful handling of frozen packages when you take them out of the freezer. I suppose they are worrying about standard other pathogens. This could easily turn out to be the same as asymptomatic spread. Public health and other related sources said over and over, no asymptomatic spread. Now all of a sudden they act like they just discovered it. ![]() |
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#83 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,849
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#84 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,849
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#85 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,849
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#86 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,849
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[side note] Sorry, SG is fuming again. I'll take a break now.
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#87 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,455
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Probably not. Running water can do the job fairly well.
ll this seems to stem from online advice that washing removes pesticides - and just seems to have been extrapolated to include COVID-19. |
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"A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald |
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#88 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,580
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This article has a unique exit strategy for the quarantine:
Split the population into two groups that alternate between lockdown and routine activity in weekly succession https://www.israel21c.org/researcher...xiting-corona/
Quote:
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#89 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,863
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Thank you, I think this really gets down to the root of my confusion...sooooooooooo much about not touching your mouth. dont touch your mouth! But go ahead and put stuff other people touched in your mouth no problem.
Food is no problem, but the packaging that you wont eat....is Dont worry about the food, but let the containers sit in the sun for a few hours for safety |
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Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
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#90 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 49 North
Posts: 4,540
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I think this may be an issue, when supplies of masks are limited, there is a desire to prioritise those at highest risk, healthcare staff, care staff. If suddenly the whole population is using masks then it means fewer for those who need them most. When there are limited supplies of e.g. eye protection, should staff in supermarkets be using visors (especially when behind plastic screens). Teaching staff are wanting PPE when schools reopen which are likely to be one of the early things to re-open.
My guess is once supplies are reliable then there will be a more formal move to encourage public use of masks in enclosed areas. I am not sure the evidence supports and benefit in the open air. |
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#91 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,849
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Around here that has been solved by people making and using their own non-medically approved masks. Considering the goal is to stop infected but asymptomatic people from spreading the virus, it is very useful to use cloth masks. Many of the masks are even washable. People may believe they are protecting themselves, and to a small degree they are. But if everyone wears masks in public, combined with hand washing, we can really stop a lot of spread.
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#92 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 49 North
Posts: 4,540
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Yes, people making their own is good. Once it became public policy then people might expect that there would be provision of 'approved' masks, there would be a demand for free provision for the poor or disabled who were unable to manufacture their own masks. In the US where their is less expectation of public assistance and more on personal reliance then expecting people to make or buy their own masks would probably be acceptable, in the UK there would be an expectation for a significant state provision. E.g. making and posting out 7 masks a week to everyone (ie 420,000,000 masks a week) is an enormous logistic issue. If we are going for re-usable masks then we need a policy on daily cleaning. Cloth masks that could be boil cleaned nightly, hung out to dry, and used the next day might be the best solution.
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#93 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Norway
Posts: 562
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#94 |
The Grammar Tyrant
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,909
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My god, that is spectacularly stupid - there are so many studies showing freezing is pointless with cornaaviruses. What are these people on?
Between notes 34 & 35:
Quote:
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The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
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#95 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,863
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Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
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#96 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,863
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Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
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#97 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,257
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#98 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,281
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That is just soooooo early April!
Coronavirus couture: the rise of the $60 designer face mask (Guardian, April 7, 2020) Face-Mask Fashion In The Coronavirus Age (RadioFreeEurope, April 2, 2020) |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#99 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Norway
Posts: 562
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#100 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,295
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That is ridiculous. Sure, there is no evidence. Would we expect that somehow someone has traced a case of covid specifically back to touching some piece of packaged food?
It says wash your hands when you come home. Then put away the packed food. Then wash your hands again. Why? The only reason to wash your hands after handling the packed food would be because there could be virus on the packed food. And you could get the virus from handling that packed food. If you couldn't, then there would be no reason for them to say you should then wash your hands. I know this coronavirus is respiratory and not gastrointestinal. I'm not going to eat the food packaging. If I were eating the cans and plastic containers that package food, I would have more to worry about than this virus. This is some ridiculous propaganda. |
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I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley |
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#101 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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#102 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30,993
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Well, we know that it can live on some surfaces for up to three days. We also know that it can go from a surface to your hands to your face if you're not careful. It seems like a credible vector of infection.
More to the point, that says that there is no evidence that it can be transmitted from food packaging. That doesn't mean that it can't be transmitted from food packaging, it means that if it is then there is as yet no evidence to support it. Given how little is still known about this virus and how it is transmitted, I wouldn't take this as a blanket statement that it's 100% fine to lick your Amazon delivery. This is especially true since the one sure thing that can be said about cases is that a lot of them are as yet undetected/unreported. IOW - I think it's probably wiser at this stage to take some basic precautions when handling new objects that have come in to your home, particularly as it's neither difficult nor onerous to do so. |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#103 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30,993
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It can hurt in a couple of ways. The most stupid is people who wear them thinking it makes them and others invincible and ignoring all social distancing rules.
But the thing that I don't see being hammered home enough in the media is that the masks can be a transmission vector themselves. You need to wash the mask after you've used it, and wash your hands before putting it on and taking it off. And don't touch it once it is on. It can encourage face-touching just by being uncomfortable. As an addendum to the above - they're a temporary thing. Once any droplets that the mask catches have evaporated, the virus is left on the mask, and viruses are small enough to be drawn through the cloth by your breath. So if you have it on for too long, then it can be a way to funnel the virus directly in to your mouth and nose. Masks can be effective, but without people understanding masks and using them correctly, they have the potential to be dangerous. |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#104 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 28,991
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
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#105 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 28,991
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Absolutely! And this is why with mask-wearing, education is important. How to wear, and look after, a mask is as important as how to wash your hands. Plenty of people think they know how to wash their hands, but have been learning recently that their way of washing their hands was completely inadequate.
What is still wrong, though, imho, is promoting the idea that masks are completely ineffective. It seems that the evidence goes against that! |
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
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#106 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30,993
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#107 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30,993
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I've seen conflicting reports on this. One expert said that it could survive up to two years in a freezer, and another said that it's possible that the freezing/thawing process would kill it.
As per my post above, I think that caution is warranted in the case of an unknown such as this. As for putting stuff in the fridge, I've definitely heard an expert say that the cold, damp conditions of a fridge are exactly the kind of environment that coronaviruses like. So I'd say it's probably wise to clean things before you stick them in the fridge. |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#108 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,257
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I have been thinking.
These cases like the choir, where 45 of 60 were receptors, yet it is unlikely more than one came with the virus, did the lungs absorb and transmit on an industrial scale? Similarly at dinner parties, weddings and crowded bars. One infector, but major recycling in one 2 hour session in enclosed space. |
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#109 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North American prairie
Posts: 2,163
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Yeah but the mask prevents the stupid people from touching their mouth and nose. So it's some use there.
I wear disposable gloves grocery shopping now that it got warmer and my outdoor gloves stay in the car. I never touch my face with them, as I used to wear them at work weighing chemicals so I would never touch my face. I used to figure out a way to use my wrist for some things, if I really needed my hand near my head. |
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#110 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 28,991
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
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#111 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30,993
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I have seen advice against gloves. The argument is that your skin's natural secretions can help the virus' lipids to break down, whereas rubber gloves just transmit it from place to place.
How true that is I don't know. |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#112 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,729
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#113 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,729
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#114 |
Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 158
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#115 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,729
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#116 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,729
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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#117 |
Student
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 26
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I believe it was a quote from Chris Smith (doctor)
Consultant virologist, broadcaster Chris Smith - "the Naked Scientist" - is a British consultant virologist and a lecturer based at Cambridge University where he is a fellow of Queens' College. He is also a science radio broadcaster and writer, and presents the Naked Scientists, a programme which he founded in 2001, for BBC Radio and other networks internationally, as well as 5 live Science on BBC Radio 5 Live. |
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#118 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,625
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There seems to be a significant possibility that wearing face masks might turn out to be the most significant thing that we can do to slow the spread, which is "interesting" since, at least in the US, governments for 2 months claimed that wearing face masks was at best useless and at worse would increase the chance of getting infected. Most of the recent writings have been that only a small percentage of transmission has occurred from people touching contaminated surfaces, but in a month "they" could go back to saying that it is a significant means of transmission.
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"Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan |
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#119 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 18,546
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SOooo many of these discussions will become moot as soon as we get the results of serology tests done on random sampling of exposed subjects. Due out tomorrow.
I suggest you all take today off, save your resources for discussing the first real facts regarding transmissibtlity and IFR for the mass herd of sheeple. Then maybe we can discuss the risk factors. Like the comorbidity list of nine diseases that seems to leave off "lives in confined quarters with others with the same co-moralities". Or age. Because so many of the listed risk factors occur together they are probably measuring the same thing. Or maybe it's forced air ventilation, like Legionnaire's disease? |
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Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept. |
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#120 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,001
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