ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags presidential approval , presidential rankings

Reply
Old 10th May 2020, 09:28 PM   #41
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 27,324
Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
What things that can be attributed to Trump might rise to "greatness" a hundred years hence?

- Putting kids in cages?
- Giving billionaires a hefty tax break, at the cost of a rise in the national debt, when such 'stimulus' was absolutely unnecessary?
- Unilaterally pulling out of a successful nuclear deal with Iran, against all allies' advice?
- Standing practically alone in the world against climate change initiatives?
- "Falling in love" with just about the worst despot?
- Debasing his country by cuddling up to Putin, against his own national security advisers?
- A record of outright lies that boggles the mind?
- Accepting (illegally) help from a foreign Power to get elected?
- Stating his desire for more such (illegal) help to get re-elected?
- Constant violations of the Constitution's Emoluments Clause?
- Corrupting and perverting the DoJ by getting his desired 'Roy Cohn' in the form of Bill Barr?
- Being credibly accused of sexual assault by nearly 2 dozen women?
- The most inept response to a viral pandemic, at least in the developed world?
- And let's not forget: Getting impeached.

How many of these aspects will our great great grandkids look favorably upon?
Defending the Russians and Saudis when US intelligence agencies showed what those countries had been doing.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2020, 10:07 PM   #42
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,942
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I find a high correlation for presidential ranking with unexpected events that turned out well or poorly. For example, Hoover was a pretty hard-working policy wonk (unlike his two idiot predecessors). However, he gets hit with the Great Depression and he gets the blame and loses. Wilson, on the other hand, had to be dragged kicking and screaming into WWI. But, since that turned out pretty good for us, he gets the credit. Wilson is 11 from the top, Hoover is 9 from the bottom.

The question remains as to how much each man, as president, has to do with the outcome of huge world events. Were they swept by the tides of history, or did they steer the nation over said tides? I don't know.

When it comes to Trump, I think historians will judge him on how well the Covid19 pandemic turned out for the nation. If we create new policies for social interaction and tracing, innovate new technologies for testing and monitoring other possible threats, and establish a new normal of more work from home, smaller office spaces, more green spaces (after we tear down the unused offices), and crazy, new medical procedures with robotic leaches and whatever - if we do all that, Trump, for all his obvious faults, may climb out of the basement given enough time.
While I agree that the events outside their control often dictate how we measure this. And that can be unfair, but I disagree entirely with your assessment of Hoover although I do believe Wilson was overrated. Hoover may have been a wonk but his decisions were all wrong. They included tariffs signing the Smoot Hawley Act as well as tightening the belt when the opposite was needed.

I also in my wildest imagination cannot believe that historians will ever view Trump favoably. Trump couldn't have handled the COVID pandemic worse than he has. He has just as he has done with everything else made it about him.

He has lied non-stop. He called the virus a hoax. He contradicted his own experts over and over again. Instead of working to unite the country he has done his best to divide the country. He attacked the last Republican President after Bush called on our leaders to put partisanship aside.

The administration isn't even talking to Congress. Trump has proven himself to be corrupt beyond belief. He was impeached and I see him desperately trying to destroy our democracy.

Trump can hardly read and spends his days watching TV and then goes on tweet storms.

Trump was the wrong man at the wrong time.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.

Last edited by acbytesla; 10th May 2020 at 10:10 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2020, 10:12 PM   #43
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Southern hemisphere
Posts: 7,195
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I think Reagan gets a lot of credit for things he really had nothing to do with. The end of the Cold War was coming because, unknown to us, the USSR didn't have the money to compete with America anymore. It was coming because western TV had penetrated into eastern bloc countries and their citizens saw the lifestyle westerners were living.

The economy was on the upswing and that had very little to do with Reagan. Deregulation certainly helped but it was just a time of prosperity, one that started before he took office and continued at least part of the way through GHWB's term.

The only way Reagan was great, in my opinion, is that he unified the Republican party for a long time. He bound the social conservatives with the fiscal conservatives with some wealthy Jews who wanted stronger protections for Israel under his "big tent." That unity lasts to this day - even as all those groups have been given plenty of reasons to despise the others. That was his greatest accomplishment.

I would personally rate him a little above average.
From an outsider's viewpoint, Ronnie Raygun was barely more than a nodding dog with a voice-box. It seemed questionable as to whether he understood what was going on around him most of the time. I seem to recall the most vexatious issue he had was hair-dye: yes or no.

So as to his policies, for good or ill, these were more than likely the product of politicians, lobbyists, spin-doctors and diplomats who worked facelessly behind the curtains, not Ronnie himself. He was about as responsible for them as I was. In short, he was a harmless and personable sock-puppet most of the time he was president.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2020, 10:30 PM   #44
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,942
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
From an outsider's viewpoint, Ronnie Raygun was barely more than a nodding dog with a voice-box. It seemed questionable as to whether he understood what was going on around him most of the time. I seem to recall the most vexatious issue he had was hair-dye: yes or no.

So as to his policies, for good or ill, these were more than likely the product of politicians, lobbyists, spin-doctors and diplomats who worked facelessly behind the curtains, not Ronnie himself. He was about as responsible for them as I was. In short, he was a harmless and personable sock-puppet most of the time he was president.
I'm not a fan of Ronald Reagan at all. That said I believe you are being unfair. Reagan did exactly what he said he would do. His administration was well run. Perhaps what you are saying is true when you view his second term but definitely not his first.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2020, 12:11 AM   #45
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Southern hemisphere
Posts: 7,195
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm not a fan of Ronald Reagan at all. That said I believe you are being unfair. Reagan did exactly what he said he would do. His administration was well run. Perhaps what you are saying is true when you view his second term but definitely not his first.
I would tend to be slightly more accurate: Other people did exactly what they told him to say he was going to do. He was an actor; he learned his lines and said them well.

I will say his administration was certainly far better run GWB, and miles out in front of the current Republican in the office.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2020, 08:03 AM   #46
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I would tend to be slightly more accurate: Other people did exactly what they told him to say he was going to do. He was an actor; he learned his lines and said them well.
This is ahistorical. Ronald Reagan had a decades-long political career. He wasn't just an actor.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2020, 08:05 AM   #47
Lurch
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,278
For Trumpy we'll have to create a new category, or metric: Presidential G.O.A.T.ness.
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2020, 02:16 PM   #48
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,942
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is ahistorical. Ronald Reagan had a decades-long political career. He wasn't just an actor.
1.6 decades, but who is counting?

Me.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2020, 02:53 PM   #49
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
1.6 decades, but who is counting?

Me.: D
He was politically active for years before he ran for governor. Even while acting was still his main gig, he was politically active in that industry. Norman Alexander has a very weird and incomplete idea of American history and politics.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2020, 03:23 PM   #50
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,942
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He was politically active for years before he ran for governor. Even while acting was still his main gig, he was politically active in that industry. Norman Alexander has a very weird and incomplete idea of American history and politics.
I know. He was President of SAG twice.

I absolutely despise RR. His presidency was a terrible turning point for the GOP. From a policy perspective, Reagan was far worse than Nixon.

This is when the GOP embraced the big lie. Instead of arguing facts, Ronnie sold to America the lie that we could reduce taxes, increase military spending and balance the budget. Something anyone with a brain knew was false. That was the turning point when the GOP sold out beyond reason.

He did lower taxes,...well on the wealthy. But the fact is Reagan actually increased taxes on ordinary Americans by a staggering amount. He increased, almost doubled payroll taxes. His administration added fees to almost anything that affected the poor and middle class.

He did increase the military budget. He just blew up the budget to do it. He sold off public lands to the wealthy. And he embraced the Religious right.

But his administration was effective at doing these things.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2020, 04:53 PM   #51
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,517
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
While I agree that the events outside their control often dictate how we measure this. And that can be unfair, but I disagree entirely with your assessment of Hoover although I do believe Wilson was overrated. Hoover may have been a wonk but his decisions were all wrong. They included tariffs signing the Smoot Hawley Act as well as tightening the belt when the opposite was needed.

Okay, I agree with you but: While Harding and Coolidge were disasters who cared nothing about law or the presidency, Hoover was working very hard behind the scenes to understand and shape policy. Harding didn't want much more than to see Alaska. Coolidge was more interested in a pair of chaps that had been gifted to him than in governing.

Hoover's big failing was that he failed to see Depression-era America as needing anything other than the fiscal and monetary policies that had become mainstream thinking in the pre-Depression years. We needed massive government spending, we got the same hands-off attitude of the decade before. At least he never sent the Army to seize someone else's oil field to give it to his friend.


Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I know. He was President of SAG twice.

Ronald Reagan was the only union member to become president.
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2020, 06:14 PM   #52
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,942
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Okay, I agree with you but: While Harding and Coolidge were disasters who cared nothing about law or the presidency, Hoover was working very hard behind the scenes to understand and shape policy. Harding didn't want much more than to see Alaska. Coolidge was more interested in a pair of chaps that had been gifted to him than in governing.

Hoover's big failing was that he failed to see Depression-era America as needing anything other than the fiscal and monetary policies that had become mainstream thinking in the pre-Depression years. We needed massive government spending, we got the same hands-off attitude of the decade before. At least he never sent the Army to seize someone else's oil field to give it to his friend.
I'm not going to defend Coolidge or Harding.


Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Ronald Reagan was the only union member to become president.
And yet as Governor and President he was anti-union.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2020, 11:06 PM   #53
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,517
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm not going to defend Coolidge or Harding.

I don't think anybody could.

In fact, I don't think anybody could put together a worse three presidents in a row than Harding, Coolidge and Hoover.
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2020, 01:35 AM   #54
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 27,324
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I don't think anybody could.

In fact, I don't think anybody could put together a worse three presidents in a row than Harding, Coolidge and Hoover.
Youíre right if we limit ourselves to people who have already held office, but if we were to speculate about the future, Iím pretty sure Donald, Don Jr, and Jared could seize that title.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 06:05 AM   #55
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Rent free.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 07:32 AM   #56
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 7,617
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Rent free.
Apple?
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 08:10 AM   #57
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Apple?
All this concern about President Kushner. Why the worry? Our next three presidents could be Bartlett, Trumbull, and Dave.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 09:21 AM   #58
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,517
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
All this concern about President Kushner. Why the worry? Our next three presidents could be Bartlett, Trumbull, and Dave.

But in all seriousness, I would vote for Kevin Klein for President five times and then drive to another precinct and vote for him twelve times more.
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 09:24 AM   #59
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
But in all seriousness, I would vote for Kevin Klein for President five times and then drive to another precinct and vote for him twelve times more.
In all seriousness, you don't have to physically change your location, to spoof your ID when filling out Internet surveys.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 12:10 PM   #60
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 7,617
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
All this concern about President Kushner. Why the worry? Our next three presidents could be Bartlett, Trumbull, and Dave.
Dave would be head and shoulders above what we have now!

Aw crap, ninja'd by Loss Leader. I blame him for spelling it Klein instead of the correct Kline!

Last edited by wareyin; 14th May 2020 at 12:12 PM.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 12:10 PM   #61
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 12,605
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
But in all seriousness, I would vote for Kevin Klein for President five times and then drive to another precinct and vote for him twelve times more.
First Lady Phoebe Cates? Yes, please.
Babbylonian is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 12:25 PM   #62
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
I'd settle for vastly prefer First Lady Phoebe Buffay.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 12:29 PM   #63
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Dave would be head and shoulders above what we have now!
In all seriousness, Donald Trump is 6'3", and Kevin Kline is "only" 6'2". He'd be topped by the president's ridiculous hairpiece.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 01:20 PM   #64
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 7,617
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In all seriousness, Donald Trump is 6'3", and Kevin Kline is "only" 6'2". He'd be topped by the president's ridiculous hairpiece.
Not when he had the robot arms on!

Plus, Trump says he's 6'3" and 239. Pics disagree.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 01:56 PM   #65
Safe-Keeper
Philosopher
 
Safe-Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 9,059
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
On the other hand, the Cuban missile crisis only happened because JFK had come across as weak to Khrushchev when theyíd had the Vienna summit, leading Khrushchev to think he could push jfk around. The Cuban missile crisis was the result.

From wiki:
ď In retrospect the summit may be seen as a failure. The two leaders became increasingly frustrated at the lack of progress of the negotiations. Kennedy later said of Khrushchev, "He beat the hell out of me" and told New York Times reporter James 'Scotty' Reston it was the "worst thing in my life. He savaged me."[18] On the other hand, Khrushchev viewed the Summit in a much more positive light. In his memoir, Khrushchev showed ambivalence. He proclaimed, "I was generally pleased with our meeting in Vienna. Even though we came to no concrete agreement, I could tell that [Kennedy] was interested in finding a peaceful solution to world problems and avoiding conflict with the Soviet Union."[19] However, historian William Taubman suggests that Khrushchev merely felt he could "[push Kennedy around]."[20]Ē
Watcing Ken Burn's excellent documentary on the Viet Nam war, I'm also not too impressed with JFK's attitude towards US involvement there and the US' objectives in 'Nam. He was only the first of the POTUSes to preside over that cluster **** of a war, but as the first, he had the responsibility to get the US off on the right foot. He could have advocated winning hearts and minds and trying to understand the country and its culture, and pushed the strongly anti-Buddhist regime to respect religious and human rights. Instead, the Strategic Hamlet programme and the US Army's approach to fighting the countryside in general was, to put it mildly, counter-productive, not to mention horrific in itself, and the coup against Diem they allowed to happen seemed to just set off a cascade of further coups and coup attempts that would greatly help the north towards victory.
__________________
"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs
"I cannot say is is suffering from a pathological narcissistic personality disorder, but I think it is clear he is doing a perfect impersonation of someone who is." --Ladewig
Safe-Keeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 02:50 PM   #66
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Not when he had the robot arms on!

Plus, Trump says he's 6'3" and 239. Pics disagree.
In all seriousness, if I've learned one thing from the Apollo Hoax, it's that nobody on the Internet has any standing at all to make arguments from photogrammetry.

Also arms don't contribute to height.

Last edited by theprestige; 14th May 2020 at 02:52 PM.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 04:44 PM   #67
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 27,324
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Rent free.
OK. Rent Free.

Or.
And Iím just spitballing here.
Jared Kushner recently went on TV to describe the administrationís response to COVID as ďa great success story.Ē And it was comments like this that made me think that he would be a bad president.

Nope.
Letís go with rent free.

Of course his living in my head is nowhere near as pathetic as President Trumpís letting President Obama live in his head.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 04:50 PM   #68
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 7,617
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In all seriousness, if I've learned one thing from the Apollo Hoax, it's that nobody on the Internet has any standing at all to make arguments from photogrammetry.

Also arms don't contribute to height.
Neither do legs, amirite?
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 04:51 PM   #69
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Somewhere Else
Posts: 4,863
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Not when he had the robot arms on!

Plus, Trump says he's 6'3" and 239. Pics disagree.
I'm 6'6", and 250. Trump is.. shorter, and heavier than I am. I suspect 6'0 - 6'1" and 280.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 06:02 PM   #70
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
OK. Rent Free.

Or.
And Iím just spitballing here.
Jared Kushner recently went on TV to describe the administrationís response to COVID as ďa great success story.Ē And it was comments like this that made me think that he would be a bad president.

Nope.
Letís go with rent free.

Of course his living in my head is nowhere near as pathetic as President Trumpís letting President Obama live in his head.
I'm not the one telling you to use Donald Trump as your benchmark.

And it's not like the thread is about speculative future presidents. You're the one who saw Kushner on TV and were inspired to introduce him as a non sequitur. What is Kushner doing for you, that you can't even keep him out of your head long enough to talk about historical presidents?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 06:04 PM   #71
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
I'm 6'6", and 250. Trump is.. shorter, and heavier than I am. I suspect 6'0 - 6'1" and 280.
That can't be right. I'm 6'1" and 220. Trump is definitely taller than I am. 6'3" is actually a conservative estimate, IMO.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 06:12 PM   #72
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 7,617
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That can't be right. I'm 6'1" and 220. Trump is definitely taller than I am. 6'3" is actually a conservative estimate, IMO.
Because Trump, a conservative said it? Just curious, how do you know he is definitely taller than you? Remember, you've already claimed estimates from photos are no good.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 06:15 PM   #73
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,517
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Aw crap, ninja'd by Loss Leader. I blame him for spelling it Klein instead of the correct Kline!

You got me. I actually saw Kline on Broadway in The Pirates of Penzance. He was amazing. And he has an Oscar. That has


Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I'm also not too impressed with JFK's attitude towards US involvement there and the US' objectives in 'Nam. He was only the first of the POTUSes to preside over that cluster **** of a war, but as the first, he had the responsibility to get the US off on the right foot. He could have advocated winning hearts and minds and trying to understand the country and its culture, and pushed the strongly anti-Buddhist regime to respect religious and human rights. Instead, the Strategic Hamlet programme and the US Army's approach to fighting the countryside in general was, to put it mildly, counter-productive, not to mention horrific in itself, and the coup against Diem they allowed to happen seemed to just set off a cascade of further coups and coup attempts that would greatly help the north towards victory.

Strongly agree with some minor quibbles: JFK was not the first president to be tangled up in the mess of colonialism that was Vietnam. Eisenhower had been trying to help the French as well. In fact, Wilson spurned a Vietnamese delegation asking for independence all the way back after WWI in Paris.

JFK's Vietnam "policy," much like his civil rights policy, was a muddled mess. At one point, we had the CIA supporting Diem and a coup by his brother at the same time.

He was a photogenic leader, but he was so wishy-washy when it came to making firm decisions that he delayed civil rights by five years, Vietnamese independence by thirty-five, and Cuban relations all the way to today.
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 06:41 PM   #74
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Because Trump, a conservative said it?
One, Trump's not a conservative.

Two, I didn't even notice the pun. Dang.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 07:19 PM   #75
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,942
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
You got me. I actually saw Kline on Broadway in The Pirates of Penzance. He was amazing. And he has an Oscar. That has

Strongly agree with some minor quibbles: JFK was not the first president to be tangled up in the mess of colonialism that was Vietnam. Eisenhower had been trying to help the French as well. In fact, Wilson spurned a Vietnamese delegation asking for independence all the way back after WWI in Paris.

JFK's Vietnam "policy," much like his civil rights policy, was a muddled mess. At one point, we had the CIA supporting Diem and a coup by his brother at the same time.

He was a photogenic leader, but he was so wishy-washy when it came to making firm decisions that he delayed civil rights by five years, Vietnamese independence by thirty-five, and Cuban relations all the way to today.
I too am not that impressed with JFK's presidency. I think he was a magnetic personality and his delivery of Ted Sorensen's speeches made him one of the finest Presidential orators.

JFK was a bit of a novice as a politician and definitely stumbled through the first half of his presidency. I have to give him credit for the Peace Corp and the space program. Outside of that Kennedy accomplished little. But the reason for this was not entirely his fault. Kennedy was elected by a slim margin and many a Southerner even in his party resented this Yankee.

In contrast LBJ was a political gorilla. He knew the ins and outs of Congress as well as anyone. After Kennedy's assassination he and the Democrats won a landslide victory. Him being a good old boy Southerner along with the Kennedy coalition allowed him to get a lot done. But I think Johnson's internal need to show strength combined with the War Hawks left over from JFK's administration caused him to turn Vietnam into a full scale war.

This is where to at least a certain degree, the times make the President as much or more than the other way around.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.

Last edited by acbytesla; 14th May 2020 at 07:20 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2020, 08:35 PM   #76
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Southern hemisphere
Posts: 7,195
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is ahistorical. Ronald Reagan had a decades-long political career. He wasn't just an actor.
True. But we are talking only about his time as president.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th May 2020, 10:09 AM   #77
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
True. But we are talking only about his time as president.
His time as president arose from his substantial political career, not from his earlier acting career.

I don't know where you got the idea that Reagan's presidency was an acting gig, but it's wrong. Did you think he ran for president as soon as The Killers wrapped principal photography?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th May 2020, 10:25 AM   #78
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,942
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
His time as president arose from his substantial political career, not from his earlier acting career.

I don't know where you got the idea that Reagan's presidency was an acting gig, but it's wrong. Did you think he ran for president as soon as The Killers wrapped principal photography?
I don't often agree with you, but I do on this point. From 1960 forward Reagan was a politician. But he did capitalize on his acting career to advance his political campaign. He did become a whore to the wealthy though.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th May 2020, 11:10 AM   #79
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44,517
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
He did become a whore to the wealthy though.
He became a politician. Even Bernie Sanders has a half-million dollar lakehouse with 500 feet of beachfront.

Or were you thinking of his acting career?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th May 2020, 11:36 AM   #80
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,942
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He became a politician. Even Bernie Sanders has a half-million dollar lakehouse with 500 feet of beachfront.

Or were you thinking of his acting career?
And yet Bernie fought for the middle class and the poor his entire career and Reagan just sodomized them.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:37 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.