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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 2nd June 2020, 06:04 PM   #361
thaiboxerken
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They've always been childish morons. "If we can't have our candidate, let the world burn!"
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 07:05 PM   #362
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This may sound crazy but in light of George Wills recent column and the dumpster fire nature of the current conservative party what about a pick from right field? Mitt Romney or John Kasich might be willing to try to defeat Trump by running with Biden. Either would probably account for a good 10% of votes from real conservatives who dislike Trump and Kasich would deliver Ohio as a bonus. Both hate Trump and could give Biden a shot at running on a platform of healing the country, embracing American ideals and working together like the "old days"?

A 2018 Forbes article https://www.forbes.com/sites/billwha.../#77f9ee105fc8

A 2018 Politco article - Biden Should Run on a Unity Ticket With Romney - https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-romney-222861
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Old 2nd June 2020, 07:30 PM   #363
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It's not the craziest idea... but not Romney or anyone else prominent enough to have had to publicly set aside their principles and kiss Trump's ring. Sure as hell not one of the "moderates" who pretend to maybe possibly be open to voting against Trump's interests just once but then do so anyway every time.

Maybe Larry Hogan? He's an ass, but at least he's still his own ass.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 07:36 PM   #364
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I'd rather have the name recognition but I understand your point. Romney showed some backbone during the impeachment and Kasich has no problem calling Trump out and has done it numerous times. At this point I'd settle for "not Trump" but I'd prefer a reset to minimal civility and actual bipartisanship of some sort to contrast to what's happening lately.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 07:48 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
I'd prefer a reset to minimal civility and actual bipartisanship of some sort
Yeah, that would never, ever, ever happen with a Republican VP. It would be the "kicking the can down the road" solution that might get Trump out of office but would not make anything else better. For one, you'd need to expect continuous impeachment hearings every single day because the GOP would love their VP getting promoted. It would also reward them for stonewalling in the Senate whenever possible because the VP's only job is to break ties - and which way do you think he'd break them?
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Old 2nd June 2020, 08:08 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
This may sound crazy but in light of George Wills recent column and the dumpster fire nature of the current conservative party what about a pick from right field? Mitt Romney or John Kasich might be willing to try to defeat Trump by running with Biden. Either would probably account for a good 10% of votes from real conservatives who dislike Trump and Kasich would deliver Ohio as a bonus. Both hate Trump and could give Biden a shot at running on a platform of healing the country, embracing American ideals and working together like the "old days"?

A 2018 Forbes article https://www.forbes.com/sites/billwha.../#77f9ee105fc8

A 2018 Politco article - Biden Should Run on a Unity Ticket With Romney - https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-romney-222861
I'm not voting for Biden this happens. Re-registering Mountain Party and moving on. Godspeed peeling off enough Republicans to make this work. They will then laugh in your face when you try to get them to work with you on any positive change or even fixing the carnage Trump has caused. That is how the it worked in the "old days."

Those 10% you want aren't free. Attracting voters that will destroy you in down ballot races while repulsing the ones that support you sounds... stupid. Good luck with the GOP in control of congress. They've been so helpful in the past.

Trump would be worse? Whatever. At some point that appeal becomes more like blackmail than pragmatism. This would be well past that.

Last edited by Suddenly; 2nd June 2020 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 08:11 PM   #367
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I was thinking of this in conjunction with George F Will's recent column - Trump must be removed. So must his congressional enablers.

I don't disagree that what you're saying could happen, I'm saying that two men could agree to work together and also campaign against the obstructionist members of congress who have completely abandoned any principles to lick Trump's ass AND defeat Trump for the good of the country. They're old enough and rich enough to agree to do the right thing if they want to for the actual good of the country but honestly, getting Trump out is the most important thing. I'd settle for baby steps if necessary.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 08:24 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
I was thinking of this in conjunction with George F Will's recent column - Trump must be removed. So must his congressional enablers.

I don't disagree that what you're saying could happen, I'm saying that two men could agree to work together and also campaign against the obstructionist members of congress who have completely abandoned any principles to lick Trump's ass AND defeat Trump for the good of the country. They're old enough and rich enough to agree to do the right thing if they want to for the actual good of the country but honestly, getting Trump out is the most important thing. I'd settle for baby steps if necessary.
I don't think you're familiar with modern American politics. Convincing the other party to throw the Presidency just to get Trump out would be giving them and their strategy of total obstructionism the biggest victory they have ever had. They aren't going to budge an inch, because why would they? You're already letting them run things despite them "losing."
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Old 2nd June 2020, 08:33 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
I was thinking of this in conjunction with George F Will's recent column - Trump must be removed. So must his congressional enablers.

I don't disagree that what you're saying could happen, I'm saying that two men could agree to work together and also campaign against the obstructionist members of congress who have completely abandoned any principles to lick Trump's ass AND defeat Trump for the good of the country. They're old enough and rich enough to agree to do the right thing if they want to for the actual good of the country but honestly, getting Trump out is the most important thing. I'd settle for baby steps if necessary.
Everyone who was a Republican in 2016 lost their party to Donald Trump. Those that are still Republicans are complicit in his actions, and the ones that had enough shame to change sides should have the humility to just shut up and sit this one out. They've done quite enough.

Of course the likes of George Will likes this idea. They have their Judges and have trashed the regulatory state. Biden on their leash would change nothing and legitimize the status quo.

This is cowardice. This is the worst sort of appeasement. You are so scared of the possibility of four years of Trump that you will debase yourselves to the point of handing everything over to the Republicans. Just get it over with and use "Peace in Our Time" as an election slogan. It will prove as successful as the last time someone used it.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 08:39 PM   #370
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? Obviously I'm familiar with it, I'm advocating for a change. I don't think Biden is the best person for the job but he's better than Trump. If my goal is to get Biden elected and return the country to some sort of normalcy I need to get Biden elected first - what dem VP brings more votes than Romney or Kasich?

eta - Winners punt when it helps them win, sometimes you play for field position in a tough game or you get defeated.

Last edited by bam; 2nd June 2020 at 08:44 PM. Reason: Context
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:01 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
eta - Winners punt when it helps them win, sometimes you play for field position in a tough game or you get defeated.
See, that's a big part of the problem. Treating politics like a game only works when everyone's playing by the same rules.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:02 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
? Obviously I'm familiar with it, I'm advocating for a change. I don't think Biden is the best person for the job but he's better than Trump. If my goal is to get Biden elected and return the country to some sort of normalcy I need to get Biden elected first - what dem VP brings more votes than Romney or Kasich?

eta - Winners punt when it helps them win, sometimes you play for field position in a tough game or you get defeated.
Nice analogy. One thing modern analytics made clear is that coaches punt way too much. They play to not lose instead of to win, and the result is that they end up losing more by doing so.

My avatar isn't a coincidence...
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:12 PM   #373
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Ohio State punts and they've won a lot more games and championships than West Virginia, what dem VP brings more votes than Romney or Kasich? I get your point but I'm currently watching rioting on the streets of my country. Tomorrow night there's a protest scheduled in my area. I need two good people to step forward and inherit a whole basket of problems but it looks like I get Biden and someone else. Who brings the votes? How do we get our country back on track? Who's YOUR VP candidate?
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:15 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The events of the past week show that the Bernie Bros who still think Biden is no better then Trump are morons.
No ****, I just don't get that. People said the same thing when Clinton was running, she'd be the same 'establishment' POTUS as Trump.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:18 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
They've always been childish morons. "If we can't have our candidate, let the world burn!"

Is there a limit of who you would vote for over Trump? Or literally anybody at all more redeeming in some small way?

Ted Cruz?
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:18 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
This may sound crazy but in light of George Wills recent column and the dumpster fire nature of the current conservative party what about a pick from right field? Mitt Romney or John Kasich might be willing to try to defeat Trump by running with Biden. Either would probably account for a good 10% of votes from real conservatives who dislike Trump and Kasich would deliver Ohio as a bonus. Both hate Trump and could give Biden a shot at running on a platform of healing the country, embracing American ideals and working together like the "old days"?

A 2018 Forbes article https://www.forbes.com/sites/billwha.../#77f9ee105fc8

A 2018 Politco article - Biden Should Run on a Unity Ticket With Romney - https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-romney-222861
No. Biden has to pick a female VP. He's already committed and changing now would open him up to massive criticism.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:22 PM   #377
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If he picks a male will you vote for Trump?
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:23 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
I was thinking of this in conjunction with George F Will's recent column - Trump must be removed. So must his congressional enablers.
And this alone is evidence there are some real Republicans that want Trump and his Toadies out. Don't need a GOP VP to get them on Biden's side.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:25 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
If he picks a male will you vote for Trump?
You are missing the point of a marketing campaign to keep voters home.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:27 PM   #380
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I'm not missing anything, can you answer the question?
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:36 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
This may sound crazy but in light of George Wills recent column and the dumpster fire nature of the current conservative party what about a pick from right field? Mitt Romney or John Kasich might be willing to try to defeat Trump by running with Biden. Either would probably account for a good 10% of votes from real conservatives who dislike Trump and Kasich would deliver Ohio as a bonus. Both hate Trump and could give Biden a shot at running on a platform of healing the country, embracing American ideals and working together like the "old days"?

A 2018 Forbes article https://www.forbes.com/sites/billwha.../#77f9ee105fc8

A 2018 Politco article - Biden Should Run on a Unity Ticket With Romney - https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-romney-222861
It looks like that Politico article was conjecturing that Sanders would take the Dem nomination and Biden would run a 3rd party unity campaign.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:37 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And this alone is evidence there are some real Republicans that want Trump and his Toadies out. Don't need a GOP VP to get them on Biden's side.
That's a good point. bam's argument is basically the same one used to get Biden nominated. By begging the question that it's always the left which must cater to the center (or in this case, the right), it casts progressives as being the unreasonable ones in the debate.

If the True Republicans really are that sick of Trump, surely they'd vote for Biden anyway just to have someone sane to negotiate with. If they aren't sick enough of Trump to vote for Biden, I doubt they'd respond to pandering. Either way it won't matter for them who Biden selects as VP, so he might as well pick someone to help him get his policies enacted and not ideologically spit in his eye.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:38 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
Ohio State punts and they've won a lot more games and championships than West Virginia,
Yes, they won all of those by punting. Seriously, just take the L and let that one go.
Quote:

what dem VP brings more votes than Romney or Kasich?
Probably all of them. Plus they won't kill us down ballot
Quote:

How do we get our country back on track? Who's YOUR VP candidate?
Mine? Richard Ojeda. He'd be even money to snap during a debate and break Pence in half with his bare hands. I'd enjoy that.

We need more unstable radical pro labor people who can bench 400 pounds in positions of power.

Honestly, I don't care. He has his list. I think Amy Klobuchar would be a spit in the face, and it would be the most Biden thing ever to chose her, but whatever.

Pick a purple state person with a minimum of progressive credibility and call it a day. He's locked himself into picking a woman, so maybe you will get lucky and it will be Shelly Moore Capito. Unity ticket.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 09:44 PM   #384
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Yes, the article is from 2018, lots of things have changed. Romney voted with dems during the impeachment hearings, Kasich has routinely been on TV blasting Trump. Is it a horrible idea if he can find the right candidate who will actively work with him and ensure Trump doesn't win. Who knows where the country will be at election time? Will COVID or martial law make getting to polls harder? Would a reasonably moral conservative anti-trumper be the worst possible choice? What dem VP choice brings more votes?
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Old 2nd June 2020, 10:02 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
Would a reasonably moral conservative anti-trumper be the worst possible choice?
Well, yes. Donald Trump Jr. might be worse. As would Strom Thurmond, but only because he's dead.

I mean, if we are triangulating why stop at moderate? Give Ted Cruz a call. By this logic, that is even more Republicans, right?
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Old 2nd June 2020, 10:11 PM   #386
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You're not capitulating hard enough. Why not McConnell? Or Santorum? Or Pence?
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Old 2nd June 2020, 10:15 PM   #387
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Richard Ojeda sounds like a good man but WV isn't really in play if polls showing Trump with a 35 point lead over Biden are to be trusted. Romney or Kasich deliver more votes than Ojeda.

Biden will already get the anti-trump vote and the left, he needs to ensure that he pulls some centrists and conservatives along to ensure a win. All the better if the VP comes from a swing state - MI, OH, PA would all be great places to look.

Would McCain be more palatable if available? I always admired him even when I didn't agree with him.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 10:45 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Do you not understand the difference between insanity on the part of progressives and prosecutorial malfeasance on the part of Harris?

QED indeed.

...(which, incidentally, was addressed even before you posted it)....

Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Did you miss the addendum I added in edit?

I await clarification of whatever point you seem to think you've made.

No comment, huh? You know, this isn't the first time you've ghosted in the middle of a debate. In fact, it seems to be a habit of yours.

Care to explain why?
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Old 2nd June 2020, 10:46 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
I'm not missing anything, can you answer the question?
Here's my answer, it's a stupid hypothetical.

In addition, I'm not the voter that would be staying home, so my answer doesn't represent the potentially lost votes.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 10:48 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
You're not capitulating hard enough. Why not McConnell? Or Santorum? Or Pence?
Hey, if that took McConnell out of the Senate, what a deal!
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 11:00 PM   #391
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Choosing a Republican running parter would be a mistake IMO but if it were tried Jeff Flake might do OK. I always hoped Trump would face a primary challenge but that's apparently just not done. Ditto Romney, at least he had a plan for health care and voted to remove Trump from office.

Biden could use a progressive woman, but I'm pretty sure Warren was eliminated moths ago. Dems looking for someone younger, possibly of color. But there could be worse than a Biden-Warren ticket.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 11:10 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No. Biden has to pick a female VP. He's already committed and changing now would open him up to massive criticism.
Originally Posted by bam View Post
If he picks a male will you vote for Trump?
It's not a binary choice. A person pissed off that Biden went back on his word probably wouldn't vote for Trump but might not vote for Biden. No, Biden must choose a woman as he said he would. To do otherwise would be idiocy. There are lots of qualified women to choose from.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 01:24 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Choosing a Republican running parter would be a mistake IMO but if it were tried Jeff Flake might do OK. I always hoped Trump would face a primary challenge but that's apparently just not done. Ditto Romney, at least he had a plan for health care and voted to remove Trump from office.
I figure selecting any Republican would harm Biden more than help... Since it will cause more Socrates to stay home than Republicans to switch sides. Plus the democrats also have to have an eye on future elections, with the idea that their current vp pic might be the Presidential candidate in the future.

If by some bout of stupidity Biden does decide to pick a republican, he would have to stay away from anyone who has helped Trump's agenda... That includes people who voted to confirm his incompetent nominations and for his tax and health care plans, or against impeachment, since doing so would be a huge middle finger to the Democratic party. (that eliminates flake, since even though he made some anti-trump noise, it was largely meaningless since at the end of the day he voted along party lines ) Romney might be an option (voting for one part of impeachment) but it is still iffy. So, no Republican congress critters. Maybe a gov or well known conservative non-politician.

Still, dumb idea

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Old 3rd June 2020, 04:31 AM   #394
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Old 3rd June 2020, 05:26 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by bam View Post
Richard Ojeda sounds like a good man but WV isn't really in play if polls showing Trump with a 35 point lead over Biden are to be trusted. Romney or Kasich deliver more votes than Ojeda.

Biden will already get the anti-trump vote and the left, he needs to ensure that he pulls some centrists and conservatives along to ensure a win. All the better if the VP comes from a swing state - MI, OH, PA would all be great places to look.

Would McCain be more palatable if available? I always admired him even when I didn't agree with him.
McCain would be hard to have on the ballot, and the debates would be a disaster. I can't imagine how having a man who had been dead for 2 years would be a good pick.

Biden can't count on the "left". One needs to look no further than this very thread to see members of the left doing what they can to sabotage his campaign. Picking a member of the other party would not only cause infighting among the centrists and moderate lefties, it would cause more far lefties to stay home or vote 3rd party than we had in 2016.

Currently, the claim that Biden would be just the same as Trump is delusional and worthy of mocking. Biden picking a VP from the crowd that supports Trump and his agenda would legitimize such a viewpoint. The Romneys, Flakes, and even McCains all loudly reprimanded Trump while voting for everything he asked them to, with only 2 exceptions I can think of. Romney voted for one article of Impeachment, safe in the knowledge that it still wouldn't carry. McCain killing the healthcare vote is the only anti-Trump vote of consequence I'm aware of.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 05:44 AM   #396
varwoche
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
<snip big pic>
Where did the pic come from? Trump campaign? Russian troll?
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Old 3rd June 2020, 05:48 AM   #397
Sideroxylon
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
McCain would be hard to have on the ballot, and the debates would be a disaster. I can't imagine how having a man who had been dead for 2 years would be a good pick.

Biden can't count on the "left". One needs to look no further than this very thread to see members of the left doing what they can to sabotage his campaign. Picking a member of the other party would not only cause infighting among the centrists and moderate lefties, it would cause more far lefties to stay home or vote 3rd party than we had in 2016.

Currently, the claim that Biden would be just the same as Trump is delusional and worthy of mocking. Biden picking a VP from the crowd that supports Trump and his agenda would legitimize such a viewpoint. The Romneys, Flakes, and even McCains all loudly reprimanded Trump while voting for everything he asked them to, with only 2 exceptions I can think of. Romney voted for one article of Impeachment, safe in the knowledge that it still wouldn't carry. McCain killing the healthcare vote is the only anti-Trump vote of consequence I'm aware of.
One only needs to listen to his **** to understand why. He should get over the line but only because Trump has jumped the shark. But how sad for America that they will not be getting a leader who will address the nations deep rooted unfairness.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 05:50 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Where did the pic come from? Trump campaign? Russian troll?
The guy in the next cubicle at our Belarus troll farm.
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Old 3rd June 2020, 05:51 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Where did the pic come from? Trump campaign? Russian troll?
And what is the context? Is it suggeing Biden wants trump shot? Protesters shot? Or is someone suggesting Biden be shot?

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Old 3rd June 2020, 06:00 AM   #400
varwoche
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
And what is the context? Is it suggeing Biden wants trump shot? Protesters shot? Or is someone suggesting Biden be shot?

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Biden put his foot in his mouth the other day, again. He said that cops should shoot in the leg rather than shoot to kill. The obvious meaning being, if and when it's neccesary to shoot, don't shoot to kill.

The Trump campaign, Russian trolls and useful idiots will flog it of course.
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