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Tags Minneapolis incidents , police incidents , police misconduct charges

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Old 9th June 2020, 06:06 AM   #201
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"We are the Police, therefore everyone else is a violent criminal."
I think my training resulted in more of, “We are the Police. And it’s hazardous for us to assume that any given encounter is not with a violent criminal.”

It may come across as paranoia, but a touch of healthy paranoia can keep an officer alive, and, perhaps paradoxically, keep the public safer.

For instance, when approaching a seated driver on a traffic stop, automatically keeping your gun hand free and gun situated away from the driver, and your flashlight or ticket book in your off hand ready to come down hard if a weapon comes up. Maybe only in one in a hundred or even one in a thousand traffic stops will the driver be an armed, violent criminal, but officers make hundreds or thousands of traffic stops so the odds are eventually they’ll be very glad they took proper precautions and survived the encounter.

How does this paranoia keep the public safer? Two quick examples...

1) Michael Brown would likely be alive today had not the officer been so nonchalant in the encounter. There was little reason not to call for backup. And we were taught to NEVER allow someone to approach your car with you seated in it. The officer did, giving Brown the opportunity to reach into the car, pummel the officer and allegedly reach for his gun. We don’t need to rehash what happened after that, but the chain of events that led to his death could have easily been nipped in the bud with better police work.

2) The 12-year-old with what turned out to be a toy gun would almost certainly still be alive had the officers assumed he was a violent criminal, stopped their car at least 30’ away, used their car doors as cover and issued verbal commands to the kid. Pulling right up to him, requiring a split-second response to a perceived threat was again, horrible police work.

Anyway, I had over 800 arrests in 8 1/2 years and never fired my weapon or killed or seriously injured anyone. And only have a couple minor scars. So there’s that.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:13 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
It may come across as paranoia, but a touch of healthy paranoia can keep an officer alive, and, perhaps paradoxically, keep the public safer.

That's OK, I have a healthy paranoia when it comes to dealing with cops.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:17 AM   #203
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General info question: How common are vehicle stops by the police in the USA? Surely they are very rare?
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:20 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
General info question: How common are vehicle stops by the police in the USA? Surely they are very rare?
Depends on the color of the drivers skin.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:20 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I think my training resulted in more of, “We are the Police. And it’s hazardous for us to assume that any given encounter is not with a violent criminal.”

It may come across as paranoia, but a touch of healthy paranoia can keep an officer alive, and, perhaps paradoxically, keep the public safer.
Okay. I did prisoner ops in Afghanistan. Actual, literal, declared enemies. People who would kill me the first chance they got.

I somehow managed to not kneel on any of their necks until they died or shoot them in their bed or on their sofa because I got the wrong room.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:22 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
General info question: How common are vehicle stops by the police in the USA? Surely they are very rare?
ppppppfffffftttt. Hahahahaha hahaha hahahaha! You sure are funny.

Seriously - unless you are using a different definition of "vehicle stop" than I am, they are very common.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:22 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
General info question: How common are vehicle stops by the police in the USA? Surely they are very rare?
*Start laughing, doesn't stop for several hours*

I have had 4 this year just for DUI checkpoints.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:26 AM   #208
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How come they are so common?
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:26 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
That's OK, I have a healthy paranoia when it comes to dealing with cops.
As do I!
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:26 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
How come they are so common?
Because they are the police's single biggest revenue generator after red light cameras.

Traffic tickets are literally half the small town in Florida's single thriving business.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:27 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
How does this paranoia keep the public safer? Two quick examples...

1) Michael Brown would likely be alive today had not the officer been so nonchalant in the encounter. There was little reason not to call for backup. And we were taught to NEVER allow someone to approach your car with you seated in it. The officer did, giving Brown the opportunity to reach into the car, pummel the officer and allegedly reach for his gun. We don’t need to rehash what happened after that, but the chain of events that led to his death could have easily been nipped in the bud with better police work.

2) The 12-year-old with what turned out to be a toy gun would almost certainly still be alive had the officers assumed he was a violent criminal, stopped their car at least 30’ away, used their car doors as cover and issued verbal commands to the kid. Pulling right up to him, requiring a split-second response to a perceived threat was again, horrible police work.
Does John Crawford III getting killed for trying to buy a pellet gun in a wallmart count as a worthwhile human sacrifice to this policy or what? Sacrifices must be made after all.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:29 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
How come they are so common?
Well the officers have their quota's to reach.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:35 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
General info question: How common are vehicle stops by the police in the USA? Surely they are very rare?
Traffic enforcement is part of an officer’s responsibility.

In Dade County, FL, I think most officers average 5-10 traffic stops per shift. I’d say 1 in 3 stops showed a driver with either a suspended or revoked license, or not uncommonly a warrant for their arrest. About 100 of my stops resulted in DUI arrests.

We had no quota, per sé, and were often too busy doing “real” police work to mess with traffic stops. But on a slow night your worksheet was expected to show some traffic enforcement activity. We also had citizen complaints about school zone violations or speeding in residential areas, and might be specifically tasked to provide enforcement in specific zones. And I tried to only write “righteous” tickets, such as running a red light by several car lengths, 20 mph over the limit or reckless driving.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:39 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Does John Crawford III getting killed for trying to buy a pellet gun in a wallmart count as a worthwhile human sacrifice to this policy or what? Sacrifices must be made after all.
Not familiar with that specific case, but if egregiously bad police work was involved, I’d be the first to point it out.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:48 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Not familiar with that specific case, but if egregiously bad police work was involved, I’d be the first to point it out.
2014, a 22 year old African American man was at a Walmart just outside Dayton, Ohio. While in the store he picked up a air-pistol for purchase. He was literally carrying a product for sale in the store that he intended to buy.

Another customer called police saying that someone brandishing a weapon. Police showed up. Guess how it turned out. Go on guess.

Police shot him, without giving him verbal commands, while he was just walking around the store talking on his cell phone and holding the air pistol (which again was a product that was for sale in that store that he had picked up from just sitting on a shelf in the store) in his other hand, below waist level, not pointed at anyone.

The police lied saying he refused orders to drop the gun but then... well not even recanted just stopped lying and didn't bring it up again after security camera footage and the person that called the police saying he saw someone "brandishing" the weapon also later recanted. The also threatened his girlfriend, before remembering to mention that they had killed her boyfriend.

The police where not charged, of course.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:48 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Not familiar with that specific case, but if egregiously bad police work was involved, I’d be the first to point it out.
Customer freaked out seeing black guy buying a pellet gun and called 911 saying a crazy black man was pointing a gun at people(he was not by the video) as soon as the cops saw him in the store they shot him.

That really seems to be good policework by the standards you are advocating here. Also the shootings for misidentifying a cell phone as a gun and so on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...n_Crawford_III

Now why the police pulled their guns in this other case I don't know as the report of "black guy with gun" is hardly a crime in Colorado, other than blacks thinking the second amendment applies to them.

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/06/0...point-safeway/

Of course he didn't actually have gun as well.
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Old 9th June 2020, 06:53 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
General info question: How common are vehicle stops by the police in the USA? Surely they are very rare?
I'm 57 years old. I do not habitually speed or break traffic laws. I have been stopped about a dozen times in my life.
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:04 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I'm 57 years old. I do not habitually speed or break traffic laws. I have been stopped about a dozen times in my life.
I'm in the UK and am 53 years old. Over my driving career I estimate I've done somewhere between 600,000 and 700,000 miles. I do speed habitually on motorways but not elsewhere. I have been stopped once (nearly 30 years ago for speeding when I was in a white van going around the North Circular at 1700 on a Friday).

A dozen times seems a lot.
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:06 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
“Police boycott” has significant implications clearly understood from the long history of police dealing with businesses. The threat by the police is not that the police will stop “buying” their free food at the shop. Why should the shop care about that? It’s that the police will now be much less “enthusiastic“ about defending this shop if they need help.
It's as if the police are announcing to the public that they operate like organized crime. "Nice shop you have there, it'd be a shame if anything happened to it..."
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:09 AM   #220
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Trump, the political genius, is now claiming that an unarmed, nonviolent 75 year old man that got his skull cracked by Buffalo police is an antifa agitator.

Quote:
Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment.
@OANN
I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...33484528214018

This is the face of the antifa menace? A 75 year old man with a soft skull? Suburban soccer moms must be pissing their pants in fear right now.
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:11 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
How come they are so common?
Because the USA is a police state.
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:12 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Trump, the political genius, is now claiming that an unarmed, nonviolent 75 year old man that got his skull cracked by Buffalo police is an antifa agitator.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...33484528214018

This is the face of the antifa menace? A 75 year old man with a soft skull? Suburban soccer moms must be pissing their pants in fear right now.
He has to re-establish the "Shadow forces are out to get me" thing with his followers after the how badly the last couple weeks have gone for him.
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:13 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Trump, the political genius, is now claiming that an unarmed, nonviolent 75 year old man that got his skull cracked by Buffalo police is an antifa agitator.



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...33484528214018

This is the face of the antifa menace? A 75 year old man with a soft skull? Suburban soccer moms must be pissing their pants in fear right now.
He fell harder than pushed?

Does this idiot not know about gravity?
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:14 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
A dozen times seems a lot.
I haven't like kept an exact count but I'm 42 and that sounds about right. Couple of speeding tickets from your bog standard speed trap towns and a bunch of random DUI checkpoints and other random stops puts it in at least that ballpark of a dozen, give or take.

I'd say I'd be comfortable putting it safely in the 8-14 times range I've been stopped by police.
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:15 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
How come they are so common?
Police often want to check out someone that fits their stereotype of a criminal, and invent a pretext for interrogation.

I get pulled over maybe once a week or so, especially late at night and on weekends. Cops see my work truck out after hours, and assume I've been at the bar for hours and am reeling pickled. Some come right out and say they were just checking me out, some lie and say I didn't come to a complete stop somewhere (always a lie: I can see them spinning around to run me down, and I am paying close attention to details). Rarely ticketed after seeing I'm sober, but occasional polite requests to take a look in the back (denied).Since COVID, much nicer. No pull overs since March.

The UKs relationship with police is truly baffling from this side of the pond. You seem to think of them as reasonable people who don't desire to victimize you ( for all the talk of Americans with guns, I have only had police hold a gun on me, and multiple times, and never for any threat from me. More as a precaution).
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:19 AM   #226
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Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment. @OANN I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:21 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It's as if the police are announcing to the public that they operate like organized crime. "Nice shop you have there, it'd be a shame if anything happened to it..."
Just think of it as acting presidential.
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:22 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
General info question: How common are vehicle stops by the police in the USA? Surely they are very rare?
I was listening to a podcast the other day (IIRC it was Opening Arguments, but I'm not going to swear my life on that) and the lawyer on that podcast said that he's good friends with a black federal judge who lives in Washington. Being a judge, he's quite well off, and so he drives a Mercedes. Apparently he gets pulled over 1-2 times a week.
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:25 AM   #229
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please be in your homes by noon or the dumbest guys from your high school will run you over with cars you paid for
https://twitter.com/Shampoodler/stat...94019996712968

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Old 9th June 2020, 07:32 AM   #230
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NYPD cop captured on camera shoving protester to the ground, causing a head and neck injury that triggered a seizure, has been charged with assault. This is the first NYPD officer to be criminally charged for the widespread police violence in the city during the BLM protests.

https://www.nytimes.com./2020/06/09/...ia-arrest.html
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:44 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The UKs relationship with police is truly baffling from this side of the pond. You seem to think of them as reasonable people who don't desire to victimize you ( for all the talk of Americans with guns, I have only had police hold a gun on me, and multiple times, and never for any threat from me. More as a precaution).
That seems accurate from the POV of it being a comparison to the US, but there's still a sense of the police as entitled pillocks who love power. And it's not like our force doesn't have institutional racism, too.

But, yes, we don't have the same abject terror of and/or hero worship that you appear to have in the States, the police kill people at a much lower rate than in the States,* and there is a much lower threshold for what is generally considered police brutality.

*2 people killed by the police so far in 2020 - one, Hassan Yahya, was shot after he "challenged police with knives"; the other, Sudesh Amman, was shot after injuring 3 people with a machete and while wearing something that had been made to look like a suicide vest. 3 people last year. 1 the year before that.

Several of these killings are the subject of ongoing inquests, and several are controversial although not widely reported on.

Oh, I should add that according to The National Police Chiefs' Council, the whole of the police force in the UK fires about 6 shots a year.
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:46 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That seems accurate from the POV of it being a comparison to the US, but there's still a sense of the police as entitled pillocks who love power. And it's not like our force doesn't have institutional racism, too.

But, yes, we don't have the same abject terror of and/or hero worship that you appear to have in the States, the police kill people at a much lower rate than in the States,* and there is a much lower threshold for what is generally considered police brutality.

*2 people killed by the police so far in 2020 - one, Hassan Yahya, was shot after he "challenged police with knives"; the other, Sudesh Amman, was shot after injuring 3 people with a machete and while wearing something that had been made to look like a suicide vest. 3 people last year. 1 the year before that.

Several of these killings are the subject of ongoing inquests.
Though to be fair more probably die in police custody from misconduct in both countries that the number shot in the streets.
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Old 9th June 2020, 07:49 AM   #233
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And, to further frustrate it, we have little data because the police put a lot of effort into making sure we don't have any to work with.

The the police really, really don't want us to know how many people die in custody or while being arrested.
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:03 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Though to be fair more probably die in police custody from misconduct in both countries that the number shot in the streets.
According to this article "there have been 1,741 deaths in police custody, or following contact with officers, in England and Wales since 1990".
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:05 AM   #235
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The transcript of the 911 call leading to George Floyd’s arrest has been released. We have yet to hear what the dispatcher told the officers that responded to the scene.

This started out as a dispute between a storekeeper and a customer. Two cars and four armed officers were dispatched to the scene. An officer pointed a gun directly at George Floyd almost immediately after arriving.

Has anyone explained why this was done? Or was it simply standard MPD practice to threaten deadly force at the least provocation?
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:06 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
The transcript of the 911 call leading to George Floyd’s arrest has been released. We have yet to hear what the dispatcher told the officers that responded to the scene.

This started out as a dispute between a storekeeper and a customer. Two cars and four armed officers were dispatched to the scene. An officer pointed a gun directly at George Floyd almost immediately after arriving.

Has anyone explained why this was done? Or was it simply standard MPD practice to threaten deadly force at the least provocation?
Two cars for a dispute?
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:17 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Two cars for a dispute?
*Shrugs* You can't drive around in my city for an hour with outseeing 3-4 police SUVs at a simple traffic stop. It's commonplace.

Police roll deep. It's part of their "US vs Them" mentality.

I've literally ran a Security Detachment who's job it was to protect a warship in port with less people and firepower then police we roll up on traffic stop.

Again I keep coming back to this but it's almost comical how we see police rolling up in 20 man teams in full tac gear with air support and an armored vehicle to arrest a wheelchair bound deaf blind thalidomide baby that tore the tag off a mattress but we'd be sitting in foreign ports and had... like 6 guys, a pistol, 2 rifles, and a shotgun to guard an entire warship.
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:24 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Shrugs* You can't drive around in my city for an hour with outseeing 3-4 police SUVs at a simple traffic stop. It's commonplace.

Police roll deep. It's part of their "US vs Them" mentality.

I've literally ran a Security Detachment who's job it was to protect a warship in port with less people and firepower then police we roll up on traffic stop.

Again I keep coming back to this but it's almost comical how we see police rolling up in 20 man teams in full tac gear with air support and an armored vehicle to arrest a wheelchair bound deaf blind thalidomide baby that tore the tag off a mattress but we'd be sitting in foreign ports and had... like 6 guys, a pistol, 2 rifles, and a shotgun to guard an entire warship.
Gods, living in Canada is good.
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:29 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm in the UK and am 53 years old. Over my driving career I estimate I've done somewhere between 600,000 and 700,000 miles. I do speed habitually on motorways but not elsewhere. I have been stopped once (nearly 30 years ago for speeding when I was in a white van going around the North Circular at 1700 on a Friday).

A dozen times seems a lot.
Let me think. Four speeding stops (two tickets, two warnings)
One other traffic violation (I didn't do a head check before changing lanes, and there was a motorcycle cop in my blind spot.)
One no seat belt ticket.
At least two taillight related stops.
Two "suspicious behavior" incidents. (In one case I was reported for driving erratically and being suspected of being drunk. What the person behind me who made the report didn't see was that I was dodging someone who was driving erratically. In the other case, a cop was convinced I had shoplifted something from a store, but waited until I drove away, and pulled me over. That one was weird.)
One time I forgot to change my license tags.

That's eleven that I remember.
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:29 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Gods, living in Canada is good.
Unless you're indigenous, then the cops might drop you on the edge of town to freeze to death. Nothing quite like a little walk in the moonlight in the warm Saskatchewan winters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths
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