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Tags Jay Inslee , protest incidents , Seattle incidents , Seattle issues

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Old 14th June 2020, 08:33 AM   #121
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Given what is really happening with CHAZ as opposed to what Fox News wants people to think is happening, which strategy for the authorities make more sense? A military type operation with tear gas, rubber bullets and batons, or just wait until everybody gets tired of camping out? After all, it's Seattle. Camping out in the street may be fun in June, but sometime this fall, it's going to start raining. A lot. Do we really think all these people are going to stay in the street when that happens?

Last edited by CORed; 14th June 2020 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 14th June 2020, 08:37 AM   #122
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Given what is really happening with CHAZ as opposed to what Fox News wants people to think is happening, which strategy for the authorities make more sense? A military type operation with tear gas, rubber bullets and batons, or just wait until everybody gets tired of camping out? After all, it's Seattle. Camping out in the street may be fun in June, but sometime this fall, it's going to start raining. A lot. Do we really think all these people are going to stay in the street when that happens?
I think the answer is for the cops to conduct business as usual. Either people will let them, or they will be guilty of a crime.
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Old 14th June 2020, 10:18 AM   #123
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Yes, I know it's rather upsetting when a black activist asks supposed white allies to to a little more than things like posting a black square on Instagram. It's somewhat disconcerting to white American Liberals to hear those requests coming from a Marxist enclave that they support, in theory because it looks good on the Facebook.

It's easy to push a few buttons and signal to the world "I'm a good person" and retweet an article you dug up but when it comes to actual action, when it comes to putting their money where their mouths are, white American Liberals get all defensive and spew all sorts of nonsensical garbage in an effort to try and spit the hook.

"clickbait", "fox news" "some internet random" "racist" you exclaim as you try to live down the shame of allowing Donald Trump to get himself elected as your president.

Truth be known, some black leaders are on to you.

Oh yea, one more thing white American Liberals. The far left hates you. They think that you're not only poseurs abnd they suspect that a lot of you secretly voted republican.
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Old 14th June 2020, 10:24 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Given what is really happening with CHAZ as opposed to what Fox News wants people to think is happening, which strategy for the authorities make more sense? A military type operation with tear gas, rubber bullets and batons, or just wait until everybody gets tired of camping out? After all, it's Seattle. Camping out in the street may be fun in June, but sometime this fall, it's going to start raining. A lot. Do we really think all these people are going to stay in the street when that happens?
It'll be like Occupy. once the tourists get bored and wander away. There'll be little groups of 911 truthers, Plandemic supporters etc. and homeless people who came for the free food and stayed for the safe place to camp out.

By this time next year, this action will be a distant memory.
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Old 14th June 2020, 11:32 AM   #125
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Are you saying, then, that non-violent protesting cannot possibly effect change? That the very act of protesting without damaging anything, is something easily ignored and brushed aside by those in power?
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Old 14th June 2020, 11:43 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Yes, I know it's rather upsetting when a black activist asks supposed white allies to to a little more than things like posting a black square on Instagram. It's somewhat disconcerting to white American Liberals to hear those requests coming from a Marxist enclave that they support, in theory because it looks good on the Facebook.

It's easy to push a few buttons and signal to the world "I'm a good person" and retweet an article you dug up but when it comes to actual action, when it comes to putting their money where their mouths are, white American Liberals get all defensive and spew all sorts of nonsensical garbage in an effort to try and spit the hook.

(snip)
Oddly some demographic is contributing large sums of money to racial justice groups such as BLM. So much that they can’t always take it all in:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/u...gtype=Homepage

But maybe it’s not the wealthy liberals you are denouncing who are contributing all this cash? Maybe it’s Trump supporters. Or unemployed 19 year old anarchists. I wonder.

Of course one could argue that sending money is not the same as being willing to protest in person, to put one’s body on the line. Interesting then that there are so many white faces in the photos I’ve seen of the protests and at CHAZ.

This whole topic is really a diversion from the OP, and I intend to not be drawn into it further. Especially because Stout continues to beat on this drum without regard to what facts or other aspects of the discussion are presented to him. But the essential point I wish to point out is that the BLM movement has united a huge swarth of society, young and old, poorer and wealthier, of all races. And people of all kinds have provided all kinds of support, from money to being out there being tear gassed. Some others apparently are frightened by this, or simply cannot comprehend it without trying to parcel the world in divisive little ways that date from our racially segregated past and are not relevant in this movement.

Attempting to make it an “us” versus “them” (those supporting the demonstrations) will leave the self-appointed “us” very lonely. Look around. Seeking more racial equality has created a powerful and large We.
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Old 14th June 2020, 11:52 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Given what is really happening with CHAZ as opposed to what Fox News wants people to think is happening, which strategy for the authorities make more sense? A military type operation with tear gas, rubber bullets and batons, or just wait until everybody gets tired of camping out? After all, it's Seattle. Camping out in the street may be fun in June, but sometime this fall, it's going to start raining. A lot. Do we really think all these people are going to stay in the street when that happens?
I doubt the vast majority of the people there ever had any intention to make this permanent. They certainly don’t have the means to do so. Like all demonstrations the point was to capture public attention. And in this case to provide a bit of theater and demonstrate some alternatives to rigid thinking about self-governance and the relative violence of the police versus the demonstrators.

I’ve read a few articles that at least several key organizers of the protests are negotiating with the city as to how to turn back control to the city government. This includes not arresting the occupiers when they seek to leave.
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Old 14th June 2020, 11:56 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Are you saying, then, that non-violent protesting cannot possibly effect change? That the very act of protesting without damaging anything, is something easily ignored and brushed aside by those in power?
Sadly it does seem true, doesn’t it? Even the non-violent movements that achieved change, such as those of MLK JR and Gandhi, captured attention and support because of the violence unleashed against them.
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Old 14th June 2020, 12:46 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Are you saying, then, that non-violent protesting cannot possibly effect change? That the very act of protesting without damaging anything, is something easily ignored and brushed aside by those in power?
No. I presented the words of a black activist, paraphrased to apply an internet discussion. wondering whether they would be rejected. Words that were asking for more than money, more than protest, more than intenet activism but a general reorganization of society along Marxist principals.

Granted, I did it in a rather provocative manner but it was a heck of a lot more interesting than simply posting a link and asking " Is this guy for real?"

This is about one representative of one intentional community.
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Old 14th June 2020, 01:14 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
It'll be like Occupy. once the tourists get bored and wander away. There'll be little groups of 911 truthers, Plandemic supporters etc. and homeless people who came for the free food and stayed for the safe place to camp out.

By this time next year, this action will be a distant memory.
You might actually be right. It is funny to me. Stout's take on the issue is probably the same take that the right-wing media will also now take.

All that talk of Seattle being under control of a communist warlord, of food shortages, checkpoints and walls to keep undesirables out or to prevent exit, all that will be forgotten. Fox news will just move on to the next thing as if it never really tried to encourage a military assault on a peaceful protest. As if it never engaged in wholesale fabrication of facts to encourage what amounts to warfare against our own people.

And the right will just go right along with that. Memories are short.
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Old 14th June 2020, 01:46 PM   #131
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So, wait... Seattle has not actually turned into a Mad Max-type hellscape of Antifa and BLM goons assaulting real Americans? It’s just a generally peaceful social experiment involving a few blocks squared?

Damn it. What do we even have A-10s for?
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Old 14th June 2020, 02:35 PM   #132
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Time will tell. Maybe a year from now, a few good left wing media outlets will do a one year anniversary story on the establishment of CHAZ or maybe, one year form now, when you Goohgle the word CHAZ all you'll get is Chaz Bono references for the first few pages.
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:36 PM   #133
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Yes, some degenerates would like that right-wing lies became forgotten.
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:09 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
Why stop there? Give up all your wealth and belongings too! Your white privilege is so evident it's sickening! How racist can you be anyway!


Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Yes, they are asking white people to give black people money.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/protes...give-out-cash/
It's metaphorical for Pete's sake. What a way to distort what a speaker was talking about.
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:15 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
What a poor response, I'll ask again:...
Quote:
Reparations are required, hurry up and report back!
First reparations and the BLM are different issues. Why are you conflating them?

Second, a lot of people don't understand reparations. It's not about passing out checks to blacks. It's off topic but I'll give a quick example then it needs another thread.

Million-dollar masterpiece paintings have been recovered from Germany and returned to the heirs of the people the paintings were stolen from.

Do you think that's OK?
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:17 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
If you guys are so keen on wealth redistribution, I could use some scratch. I call my autonomous zone 'Cops Unwelcome Near Thermal's Street'. Cash is fine.
Now reparations has become "wealth redistribution".

Yep, all them black welfare queens. Let's bring that dog whistle in too.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:28 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
So, wait... Seattle has not actually turned into a Mad Max-type hellscape of Antifa and BLM goons assaulting real Americans? It’s just a generally peaceful social experiment involving a few blocks squared?

Damn it. What do we even have A-10s for?
The Capitol Hill Block Party that takes over some of the same streets and Cal Anderson Park for three days every summer is more like what we're seeing here minus a lot of the food, beer and music. Streets are blocked for ~5 days because there is also set up and take-down.

Maybe not as long, but it also takes over more blocks and the loud music goes on later into the night.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 14th June 2020 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:39 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post

It's metaphorical for Pete's sake. What a way to distort what a speaker was talking about.
Sure...and my post at #95 was also a metaphor.
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:48 PM   #139
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I watched a video of a preacher being confronted by occupiers in CHAZ. There was a scuffle and lots of shouting. Various websites including crackpot ones are posting the video. Can't find it on more mainstream news sites though. The Blaze website is the first site that shows up on DuckDuckGo. The videos I've seen were edited.
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Old 14th June 2020, 07:36 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Okay! But so far they haven’t asked me for anything. Except to not be murdered by the police.
I think this particular type of hyperbole probably explains why you think the left leaning media is not warping reality. The idea that people have to ask not to be murdered by police is silly and has absolutely no basis in reality. It's extraordinarily easy to not be murdered by police and, yes, this includes people of color.
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Old 14th June 2020, 08:08 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I think this particular type of hyperbole probably explains why you think the left leaning media is not warping reality. The idea that people have to ask not to be murdered by police is silly and has absolutely no basis in reality. It's extraordinarily easy to not be murdered by police and, yes, this includes people of color.
No it is not.

Cops shoot and kill man holding toy gun in Wal-Mart

Tamir Rice: police release video of 12-year-old's fatal shooting – video

Girlfriend livestreams after police kill her boyfriend in Minnesota

Video shows a South Carolina trooper shooting an unarmed man after stopping him for an alleged seat belt violation. Notice you keep hearing shots after the guy has his hands up and is getting on the ground.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE



Those are just off the top of my head.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 14th June 2020 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 14th June 2020, 09:12 PM   #142
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Those are just off the top of my head.
Current US population: 331 Million
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Old 14th June 2020, 09:22 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I think this particular type of hyperbole probably explains why you think the left leaning media is not warping reality. The idea that people have to ask not to be murdered by police is silly and has absolutely no basis in reality. It's extraordinarily easy to not be murdered by police and, yes, this includes people of color.
Sure, you can just stay at home and only peer through the window. Oh, no good. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50032290

Okay maybe you should just stay at home, stay away from the windows, and just eat ice cream on the sofa. Oh wait, that won’t work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Botham_Jean

Maybe you should just stay in bed to be absolutely safe. Oh wait, that won’t work either. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-home-n1205651

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Old 14th June 2020, 09:23 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Current US population: 331 Million
And your quote: “ It's extraordinarily easy to not be murdered by police and, yes, this includes people of color.”

Except for the occasional mistakes that keep happening and happening and happening.

Last edited by Giordano; 14th June 2020 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 14th June 2020, 09:28 PM   #145
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What ever you do, do not lie down on the lawn with your hands in the air begging the police not to shoot your mentally disturbed patient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...Charles_Kinsey
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Old 14th June 2020, 10:28 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Except for the occasional mistakes that keep happening and happening and happening.
I don't know...the word "infinitesimal" comes to mind.

Really. Some of the cases you posted I am familiar with. I even know a few you've not yet mentioned. Let's say we come up with fifty of them. The population of the US is still 300+ million.
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:06 AM   #147
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Right wingers treating this protest in Seattle like they're never heard of Occupy before.

I don't see any evidence anywhere that this is meant to be a long-term anarchy project. It's a protest using the tactics of occupying the street.

Given that the subject of the protest is the brutality wielded by the police, both generally and specifically in response to peaceful street demonstrations, the peaceful and generally pleasant vibe of the "CHAZ" is stunning rebuke of the SPD. The cops left and people are having a nice street festival, watching movies, dancing, and talking about a better future.

I am curious how long the SPD will let this peaceful insult stand before they strap on the riot gear and scatter the streets with overwhelming force, because that seems to be the only thing they know how to do well.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:52 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Right wingers treating this protest in Seattle like they're never heard of Occupy before.

It is a little weird. I asked someone the other day, don’t you remember when those hippies lived in the park for a couple months? They had completely forgotten about that.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:56 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I think this particular type of hyperbole probably explains why you think the left leaning media is not warping reality. The idea that people have to ask not to be murdered by police is silly and has absolutely no basis in reality. It's extraordinarily easy to not be murdered by police and, yes, this includes people of color.


I am starting to see your frustration here. People are losing their minds in some kind of collective hysteria over this issue. We don’t agree on any of the facts, and we are trying to solve the problem that those facts would indicate. It’s like the satanic panic or UFOs or something.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:01 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Right wingers treating this protest in Seattle like they're never heard of Occupy before.
Oh, we remember that farce quite well.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:16 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Given what is really happening with CHAZ as opposed to what Fox News wants people to think is happening, which strategy for the authorities make more sense? A military type operation with tear gas, rubber bullets and batons, or just wait until everybody gets tired of camping out? After all, it's Seattle. Camping out in the street may be fun in June, but sometime this fall, it's going to start raining. A lot. Do we really think all these people are going to stay in the street when that happens?
Just cut off the coffee delivery. They will go feral in a week.

The problem is I don't trust any media outlet to provide accurate reporting as far as "what is really happening" and "fox news" versions.

So long as nobody is getting injured, let it ride. But as I just said, we don't know what is really going on, and it's going to collapse under it's own weight soon enough. The lack of supplies alone will cause it to end. I would give anyone a pass on any non-violent crime.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:29 AM   #152
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So...is it Mogadishu yet?
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:32 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Just cut off the coffee delivery. They will go feral in a week.

The problem is I don't trust any media outlet to provide accurate reporting as far as "what is really happening" and "fox news" versions.

So long as nobody is getting injured, let it ride. But as I just said, we don't know what is really going on, and it's going to collapse under it's own weight soon enough. The lack of supplies alone will cause it to end. I would give anyone a pass on any non-violent crime.
We do know what's going on. People come and go freely. Journalists have reported from within the CHAZ. Ordinary people are sharing their experience online all over. There's no hard border other than a flimsy barricade stopping traffic.

The right wing reporting on the matter is largely a work of fiction and propaganda.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:43 AM   #154
crescent
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Just cut off the coffee delivery. They will go feral in a week.

The problem is I don't trust any media outlet to provide accurate reporting as far as "what is really happening" and "fox news" versions.

So long as nobody is getting injured, let it ride. But as I just said, we don't know what is really going on, and it's going to collapse under it's own weight soon enough. The lack of supplies alone will cause it to end. I would give anyone a pass on any non-violent crime.
Quite a lot of photos, videos, and commentary coming out regarding the well stocked food pantry there. There's no shortage of supplies, that just one of the myths that ran twice around the world before actual information could get its boots on. We live in the era of unedited live streaming video, I've posted one link already in the thread. You can literally see for yourself, without anyone filtering what you see.

Tweet About Stolen CHAZ Food May Be Fake


A look inside Seattle’s newly-formed ‘Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone’

Quote:
Reporting early in the afternoon Tuesday, Nicole also described free food and medical aid available for demonstrators on every corner. Some food and supplies were also distributed to the homeless population in the surrounding area. The group even reportedly organized its own garbage collection Wednesday morning.
Also seen at #CHAZ: The “No Cop Co-op,” a little library, a coffee stand and hot dog vendor

One way to think of it is this: When this started, there was huge, hyperbolic misinformation campaign. Fox news and talk radio contributed quite a bit, but much of it was also just a visceral reaction by a lot of people. It ran wild on social media, really wild. And it was not even remotely accurate. No warlords. No food shortages. No declaration of independence. No checkpoints. None of that. Supplies flow easily in and out, as do people. The outside of the police station is been graffitied, but the interior is intact and the protesters don't enter it. Businesses are open.

What it is, is just Occupy 2.0. My guess is that it will fizzle out due to the leaderless nature of the movement - just as the original Occupy movement did. Without clear leadership, the list of demands may just spiral upwards, getting less realistic over time. People who make wild claims in the name of the movement will not be effectively contradicted by the movement because there will no clear leadership to do so.

So I'm not really defending the movement.

But....

The wildly hyperbolic misinformation campaign against CHAZ infuriated me. A lot of conservative people (including news and talk radio) were spreading wild lies and falsehoods with glee. It disgusted me. And it has not totally let up, still a lot of people really think it is incumbent upon the government to use force to end this - this peaceful protest. They want to kill a whole lot of Americans because they can't be bothered to learn what it actually happening, to think that reports of downtown Seattle under the control of a communist warlord just might be hyperbole.

Last edited by crescent; 15th June 2020 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 15th June 2020, 08:33 AM   #155
Giordano
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I don't know...the word "infinitesimal" comes to mind.

Really. Some of the cases you posted I am familiar with. I even know a few you've not yet mentioned. Let's say we come up with fifty of them. The population of the US is still 300+ million.
Since the beginning of 2020 six people have been legally executed in the USA after long court proceedings and appeals to establish their guilt and the appropriateness of their sentencing. Twenty-two in all of 2019. But by your own interpretation double that number of innocent people killed by cops by egregious error or malevolent intent can be casually disregarded as “infinitesimal.”

Okay, I guess we just place different values on innocent peoples’ lives. And we have clearly shown the falsehood of the quote: “ It's extraordinarily easy to not be murdered by police and, yes, this includes people of color.”

This has become another distraction from the title thread. Enough.
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Old 15th June 2020, 09:46 AM   #156
Leftus
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The wildly hyperbolic misinformation campaign against CHAZ infuriated me. A lot of conservative people (including news and talk radio) were spreading wild lies and falsehoods with glee. It disgusted me. And it has not totally let up, still a lot of people really think it is incumbent upon the government to use force to end this - this peaceful protest. They want to kill a whole lot of Americans because they can't be bothered to learn what it actually happening, to think that reports of downtown Seattle under the control of a communist warlord just might be hyperbole.
Yeah, there is clearly a misinformation campaign going on from the right. Maybe I'm just jaded, or overly cynical, but I don't trust the other side to show the unvarnished truth. They also have a motive to give us a dog and pony show.

I'm not sure the truth can ever be known, but if there is no confirmable harm, then ramping up the troops to restore law and order, in a place that already seems to have order, at least, seems to be a bit too aggressive. As we agree, it will eventually fail. So let it do that. If they have a better way of dealing with some of the uglier sides of human nature, we can learn from it and use it.

Of course, as noted, as a leaderless organization, any one can make up a set of "demands" and have just as much legitimacy and any other list. The one I saw, included (#16) "empty its “lost and found” and return property owned by denizens of the city" To whom, exactly? The problem of ownership is why it's in the Lost and Found I would think. There may be something missing but the demand doesn't really explain the problem. Reading the requirements of reclaiming property to be that onerous. Maybe it's a local homeless thing I'm not versed in, being out of state.
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Old 15th June 2020, 09:57 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I watched a video of a preacher being confronted by occupiers in CHAZ. There was a scuffle and lots of shouting. Various websites including crackpot ones are posting the video. Can't find it on more mainstream news sites though. The Blaze website is the first site that shows up on DuckDuckGo. The videos I've seen were edited.
But, but but...

He was a nazi sympathizer ( metaphorically speaking, of course ) at least according to some rando in CHAZ so he actually deserved to be sexually assaulted, choked out and have his semi unconcious body toake to the border and thrown over the wall ( metaphorically speaking, of course ). When the USA sends its people, they’re not sending their best.
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Old 15th June 2020, 10:07 AM   #158
Giordano
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
But, but but...

He was a nazi sympathizer ( metaphorically speaking, of course ) at least according to some rando in CHAZ so he actually deserved to be sexually assaulted, choked out and have his semi unconcious body toake to the border and thrown over the wall ( metaphorically speaking, of course ). When the USA sends its people, they’re not sending their best.
“Metaphorically speaking” meaning completely invented out of whole cloth? Just for the sake of my curiosity could you please indicate what parts of your highlighted post are facts rather than “metaphors?” And what is your source for this information?

Thanks.
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Old 15th June 2020, 11:10 AM   #159
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Okay, I guess we just place different values on innocent peoples’ (sic) lives.
Hahah. Let me guess...you put much more value on innocent people's lives, amirite?

My observation was that rhetoric such as stating that innocent people (of color, I can only presume) have to ask "not be murdered by the police" is hysterical nonsense and is completely untethered to the real state of affairs. You're uncritically falling for and pushing a BS narrative. my suggestion is this may be one of the reasons you don't see left leaning media as warping reality.

Quote:
And we have clearly shown the falsehood of the quote: “ It's extraordinarily easy to not be murdered by police and, yes, this includes people of color.”
We have?
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Old 15th June 2020, 11:23 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post

The right wing reporting on the matter is largely a work of fiction and propaganda.


What makes you say that?




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