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#1 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,059
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Brexit: Now What? The Perfect 10.
Negotiations are stalled. The UK is happy with a no deal so aren't really trying. There are rumours in the right wing media that the UK's hard line is just about to trigger a raft of unilateral concessions from the EU. Then again, they've been saying the same thing all along.
The only definitive statement from the UK government is that the transition period will not be extended under any circumstances. |
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#2 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,857
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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#3 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,167
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#4 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,059
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#5 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,725
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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#6 |
Lackey
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 96,143
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#7 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31,403
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sleepwalking to disaster. to coin a phrase.
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#8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
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#9 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 33,596
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#10 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 96,143
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Yeah more like “as they wanted”.
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#11 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
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I find it amazing some people will simultaneously believe a new deal is easy, that all UK has to do is play hardball and EU will surely yield and then blame the EU for not yielding to UK.
That's like saying "yeah, we lost the war, but it's not our fault, the enemy wasn't supposed to fight". Sure you can say that, but it does make you look StupidTM. McHrozni |
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#12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,059
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If the EU would only "play by the rules" then they would yield to the UK. Instead they are "sneaky foreigners" who break the rules and hence don't yield.
![]() Part of it is that there are two distinct groups involved in Brexit. The architects of Brexit (Cummings, Dyson, Putin et al) are aware that the UK won't prevail simply by being obstructive and are actively using this to engineer a no-deal Brexit. The foot-soldiers of Brexit (the UKIPpers, rank and file of the Conservative Party and Labour voters of the industrial wastelands) think that the EU will yield, simply because the UK cannot be denied. ![]() |
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#13 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
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Yeah. I can understand architects of Brexit, they're either motivated by personal greed and wish the UK to become a disaster zone they can loot, or else scheming politicians that wish to see UK become disaster zone so it's less of a threat. This later group also wishes to see EU damaged, so Brexit serves two purposes. I don't support them, in fact I think Azkaban is too good for them, but I understand their goals and motivations.
But the grunts, those I'll never understand. Look, the architects told you a plethora of lies, not one of their major Brexit claims has turned out to be factual. Why do you still believe them? Cognitive dissonance and sunk costs suck ![]() McHrozni |
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#14 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 33,596
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#15 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 31,006
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Also exceptionalism and ignorance. If you have all those things it's easy to believe that the UK is in a strong position, because the UK is great. Eng-ger-land!
But the UK has far less power than the EU here. Simply because losing a single country as a trading partner may be harmful to the EU, but nowhere near as harmful as losing the entire trade infrastructure will be to the UK. I think this time next year when there are food shortages* and medicine shortages that a portion of Brexiteers will finally start to understand what it is that they've wreaked upon this country. *By which I don't mean that there will be nothing to eat, but that people won't be able to just eat whatever they want whenever they want. For example, we can currently eat pasta because when people panic-bought it Italy stepped up exports to the UK. If trading with Italy is borked and there are no imports to replace them, then people are going to have to get used to not having pasta every night and will have to seek out alternatives instead. |
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#16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,059
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Yup
![]() The grunts don't believe that the Brexit claims have turned out not to be factually accurate. Indeed, they were told that things would go badly wrong post-Brexit and instead, basically nothing has changed. Of course this is because we're still in the transition period and so, in effect, are still in the EU but they choose not to acknowledge that. Other things, like the fact that an extra £350m a week hasn't suddenly turned up in NHS coffers, can be blamed on the previous government which apparently has nothing to do with the current one, and that money will soon be made available. From their perspective Project Fear is a busted flush and none of the bad things have happened and the benefits are yet to come.... |
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#17 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31,403
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You can’t keep a bad man down - but we can try.
Sacked for being a Little Englander Racist he goes on to form year another Blackshirts Lite Party AKA The Reform Party. Now he's planning to reform the Brexit Party because he thinks Boris is losing control of Brexit. Nothing to do with LBC dropping his radio show of course. |
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#18 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 31,006
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#19 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
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Yeah, but that was just one aspect of what was promised.
The other was that UK would retain all the benefits of membership, including frictionless trade with EU. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ntil-july-2021 Nope. That's not really a minor issue, it was a promise by architects of Brexit that was broken for all to see. How will the Irish border work, by the way? McHrozni |
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#20 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
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Yes, yes, definitely. Those all played a major role
![]() Germany needed two world wars to get those out of their system. UK will need Brexit, followed perhaps by Scotxit and maybe Breentryasajuniortradepartner (tacky abbervision pending) to do the same. What will USA and China need, I wonder? Dread, even. McHrozni |
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#21 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
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The thing is, at the moment we are post-Brexit and we still have frictionless trade with the EU and the UK/Irish border is exactly as it was before, therefore Project Fear was completely wrong.
Of course we likely will not have those two things in place on 1 January 2021 but that's in the future and although all "experts" are suggesting that it'll be a complete ****-show, they can be safely ignored. ![]() |
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#22 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#23 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
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Well, I can modify Breentryasajuniortradepartner to Brentryasajuniortradepartner. That means it's British entry and not reentry, the rest is the same anyway.
That assumes, of course, there is a trade deal with the US in the meantime. Between the mandatory summer break in July and August and the election campaign that follows that leaves what? Six weeks to strike one? During a pandemic and the resulting economic crash? Fun fact, Joules Verne wrote a book that takes place in 2600 where UK is a colony of the USA. I love that author you know? McHrozni |
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#24 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,725
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The grunts were in it for the fight, they wanted to stick it to foreigners, the EU, politicians and 'the Establishment Elite', to use Boris' own metaphor they were throwing rocks at their neighbour's greenhouse to hear the crash because it gave them a feeling of power, they never thought beyond that as they expected to lose and go back to complaining about the other side cheating (you can always tell, when one side is angrier after winning than before, this). And between the architects and the grunts was a layer of populists who were actually the elite but pretending to be grunts while betraying both sides.
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#25 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#26 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
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They could at least be honest to themselves and admit the miserable failure of Brexit is there by design and like Brexit for the failure that it is. Instead they pretend they like the result they're given because it's different from the result they were given. Somehow.
McHrozni |
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#27 |
Philosopher
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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#28 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
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#29 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,059
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The US trade deal will not only prohibit UK membership of the EU, it will prohibit the UK having a free trade deal with the EU. If the UK signs up to the US trade deal then EU membership is out of the window for at least a generation.
![]() The UK will get a trade deal with the US, if the US wants one, because the UK will simply accept any and all terms that the US wants. There will be no need for protracted trade talks because the UK will simply say "Yes" to whatever the US wants. AIUI there is already a draft set of terms issued by the US (including the points on food standards and prohibiting place of origin labelling, sore points here in the UK) so as I see it, the only possible cause of delay is if the US wants to "double-dip" and see whether they can get even more favourable terms and/or even greater access to the NHS. |
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#30 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
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That's what I called Brentryasajuniortradepartner, once UK is very well shafted by the US maybe then the Bexit grunts will realize they were conned through and through.
Of course there's the issue of the American elections, which paralyze the already crippled administration even more. Between that, the pandemic and the riots I find it doubtful the USA can secure the deal - even if the UK says "yes" to everything there may not even be a partner in USA with the ability to sign one. We'll see. Trade talks began in mid-May, chlorinated chicked and hormone-fed beef seem to be major points where USA wants absolute capitulation by the UK. BJ has tried to resist a little thus far. McHrozni |
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#31 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 31,006
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I've heard it said that the meat standards are being opposed by Carrie Symonds. Which, if true, means that the shape of future trade of our county is being decided by two unelected people with the PM's ear.
I'd expect Cummings to win, though. Johnson relies on him for more, and is too much of a misogynist to take his missus' side on something like that. |
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#32 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#33 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#34 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Posts: 33,596
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#35 |
Philosopher
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#36 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#37 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 5,293
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I have to say this is by far the most complex annexation of a new state to the union so far. Still, where to put the 51st star on the flag might be the biggest hurdle.
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#38 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#39 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#40 |
Penultimate Amazing
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