[Continuation] Brexit: Now What? The Perfect 10. - Page 3

Captain_Swoop · 18th June 2020, 03:57 PM

The Tories are stealing public money via phoney contracts for hundreds of millions of pounds to phoney companies set up by their friends, families and donors. This is what kleptocracy looks like and it's 4 years until the next election.

lomiller · 19th June 2020, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by McHrozni

That's possible. But keep in mind his base is not 45% of the electorate, it's more like 20-25% of the electorate, with another 20% or so who go along with the charade in order to get certain things they want done.

I don’t really see it that way. There is a core base who think crazy right wing polices are working and another core base who can see these ridiculous polies are not working and think that if you change the leader but keep all the crazy policies they will suddenly start to work. Neither group is ever going to vote for anyone else no matter how incompetent and repugnant “their side” is, because “the other side is worse”. The “other side is worse” because they oppose the crazy, unworkably and offensive polices.

The UK has the same problem. Eg May legitimately tried her best to take the pile of ***** that was Brexit and negotiate a real agreement around it. This failed because there is no version of Brexit that is as good for the UK as remaining in the EU but instead of recognizing the basic policy was flawed Conservatives doubled down and put in a new leader who promised even stricter adherence to eh stupid policy idea. When BJ fails, they will blame him for “not doing it right” and find someone as bad or worse to pursue the same doomed polices.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 19th June 2020, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Eg May legitimately tried her best to take the pile of ***** that was Brexit and negotiate a real agreement around it.

That's quite a kind way of putting it. She insisted on pushing for a hardline Brexit, when that isn't what people voted for at all.

The Don · 19th June 2020, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

That's quite a kind way of putting it. She insisted on pushing for a hardline Brexit, when that isn't what people voted for at all.

Exactly, EEA membership would have been so much less damaging.

Indeed only a no-deal would have been more damaging - but we're getting that anyway

Darat · 19th June 2020, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Exactly, EEA membership would have been so much less damaging.

Indeed only a no-deal would have been more damaging - but we're getting that anyway

Hey give them a chance. I'm sure they will be able to end up with something that is worse than a no deal.....

The Don · 19th June 2020, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Hey give them a chance. I'm sure they will be able to end up with something that is worse than a no deal.....

Well that would be the US trade deal as envisaged by President Trump

Squeegee Beckenheim · 19th June 2020, 10:55 AM

There's definitely a part of me curious to see what a trade deal negotiated by Trump and Johnson would actually look like. So please, universe if you're listening, if we absolutely must have such a deal, let Johnson and Trump co-author the actual text personally, and then let us all read it.

I expect determining by the language which of the two wrote which bit would be as difficult as determining by Sue Storm's haircut whether a particular scene in Josh Trank's Fan4stic was a re-shoot or not.

catsmate · 19th June 2020, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

The Tories are stealing public money via phoney contracts for hundreds of millions of pounds to phoney companies set up by their friends, families and donors. This is what kleptocracy looks like and it's 4 years until the next election.

But don't worry, you're going to get Brexit ~~inflicted on you in the most painful and stupid way imaginable~~.

catsmate · 19th June 2020, 11:02 AM

Where are all the Brexiteers? Shouldn't they be here telling us how wonderful Brexit will be?

Trebuchet · 19th June 2020, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

The Tories are stealing public money via phoney contracts for hundreds of millions of pounds to phoney companies set up by their friends, families and donors. This is what kleptocracy looks like and it's 4 years until the next election.

Welcome to the USA under Trump. At least we've only got five months.

KDLarsen · 20th June 2020, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

I don’t really see it that way. There is a core base who think crazy right wing polices are working and another core base who can see these ridiculous polies are not working and think that if you change the leader but keep all the crazy policies they will suddenly start to work. Neither group is ever going to vote for anyone else no matter how incompetent and repugnant “their side” is, because “the other side is worse”. The “other side is worse” because they oppose the crazy, unworkably and offensive polices.

The UK has the same problem. Eg May legitimately tried her best to take the pile of ***** that was Brexit and negotiate a real agreement around it. This failed because there is no version of Brexit that is as good for the UK as remaining in the EU but instead of recognizing the basic policy was flawed Conservatives doubled down and put in a new leader who promised even stricter adherence to eh stupid policy idea. When BJ fails, they will blame him for “not doing it right” and find someone as bad or worse to pursue the same doomed polices.

To be fair, May didn't exactly help herself by unilaterally adding all those red lines, that made it near impossible to reach any kind of agreement with the EU, other than a hard brexit.

Johnson ran for leadership on a promise of using his charm and force of personality to negotiate an even better agreement for the UK, while maintaining the same red lines. I'm not convinced the EU, having stated for so long that they were not going to reopen negotiations, then allowed for some small tweaks, which Johnson then sold as proof that the EU would buckle under pressure.

The Don · 20th June 2020, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Welcome to the USA under Trump. At least we've only got five months.

Or 4 years 5 months.

Or 12 years 5 months if Ivanka successfully picks up where Dad left off

Mr Fied · 20th June 2020, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Conservative Home "The Voice of Conservatism" has published a piece by darren grimes on energy production 'post brexit'

He says

Shall I slap him or does someone else want that pleasure?

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...orth-east.html

And in the comments section, this gem:

Quote:

A sensible article, alas it will fall on deaf ears, primarily because we have a left-wing, scientifically-illiterate government that rather than scrapping the climate change act 2008, they instead made it even worse by adding net zero by 2050 - the most radical law ever passed by a UK government, which has guaranteed mass blackouts and economic destitution within the next 3 decades, and is a law no genuine conservative could ever support, just a pity the incompetent fool sitting in Downing Street isn't an actual conservative.

Yeah, those namby pamby lefties, get some proper right wing Tories in to sort the country out.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 20th June 2020, 03:18 AM

Peter Hitchens published an article a few days ago saying basically the same - that the left control every stratum of power. It's the "Deep State" given a new hat.

Captain_Swoop · 21st June 2020, 02:50 AM

Minette Batters of the National Farmers Union says For Boris Johnson "to sign up to a trade deal which results in opening our ports, shelves & fridges to food which would be illegal to produce here would not only be morally bankrupt, it would be the work of the insane."

The Don · 21st June 2020, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Minette Batters of the National Farmers Union says For Boris Johnson "to sign up to a trade deal which results in opening our ports, shelves & fridges to food which would be illegal to produce here would not only be morally bankrupt, it would be the work of the insane."

And yet the farmers voted en-masse for Brexit. I'm finding it difficult to drum up too much sympathy.

OTOH I am very concerned about food standards but I suppose hundreds of thousands of extra cases of food poisoning and a thousand extra deaths a year is a price worth paying for the blue passports it turns out we could have had all along if we were that bothered about it

I suppose the large farming companies will be bought off with generous subsidies and the small farms will just go out of business making second homes so much cheaper for the urban wealth creators

Captain_Swoop · 21st June 2020, 03:03 AM

Farmer's are overwhelmingly Tory.
they were lied to by the party they support and fell for it.

Lothian · 21st June 2020, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Farmer's are overwhelmingly Tory.
they were lied to by the party they support and fell for it.

I am not sure they bought the lies rather they bought the jingoism of the leave campaign and imagined that rules would be changed to benefit them without putting any thought into how the world and trade deals work or the weak position the UK would be in.
Perhaps more a case of not thinking rather than believing what was put out. I have a farmer friend who sends his sheep to the EU who voted leave and is now facing 30%+ tariffs on a no deal WTO brexit. Doh!

Garrison · 21st June 2020, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Conservative Home "The Voice of Conservatism" has published a piece by darren grimes on energy production 'post brexit'

He says

Shall I slap him or does someone else want that pleasure?

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...orth-east.html

And he's clearly not aware that recently we haven't needed to use coal for electricity generation.

Mr Fied · 21st June 2020, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Garrison

And he's clearly not aware that recently we haven't needed to use coal for electricity generation.

But if we all went back to using coal there would be no need to re-open schools, the kids could all be employed up chimneys.

Think of the extra income tax it would generate.

P.J. Denyer · 21st June 2020, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Fied

But if we all went back to using coal there would be no need to re-open schools, the kids could all be employed up chimneys.

Think of the extra income tax it would generate.

I'm sure a certain Leader if the House would find the idea 'uplifting'.

Trebuchet · 21st June 2020, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Or 4 years 5 months.

Or 12 years 5 months if Ivanka successfully picks up where Dad left off

And I forgot to include the lame-duck period anyhow!

Captain_Swoop · 21st June 2020, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Fied

But if we all went back to using coal there would be no need to re-open schools, the kids could all be employed up chimneys.

Think of the extra income tax it would generate.

No, send them back down the mines.

wobs · 21st June 2020, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Conservative Home "The Voice of Conservatism" has published a piece by darren grimes on energy production 'post brexit'

He says

Shall I slap him or does someone else want that pleasure?

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...orth-east.html

To be fair, he's not really arguing for going back to coal for electricity generation, but for:

Quote:

There’s a massive domestic demand for coal in such industries as steel, cement, the UK’s heritage railways and even for the heating of rural homes. Going forward, once all coal-fired generation ceases, it’s estimated that the UK will still need around five million tonnes for these industries every year.

I thought you were in favour of getting coal for heritage railways?
Although we should be moving away from coal for steel, and we should cut back on cement/concrete use anyway.

And we should really cut back on home use as well.

I should also add that a new coal mine was approved end of last year in Cumbria for coking coal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-50274212

I'm not defending him, as we should be looking at alternatives, but there will be demand for coal in the UK, even at though its less than what it was.

Captain_Swoop · 21st June 2020, 05:36 PM

We still have coal, it's not mined though, it comes from open cast.

Heritage Railways need hard, low clinker, low sulfur coal.
Soft coal breaks up and small fragments and dust gets lifted by the draught depositing in the fire tubes and smokebox, this reduces gas flow and heat transfer and reduces steaming.
Clinker clogs the firebars reducing air flow and sulfur causes erosion of fire tubes and boiler tube plates.
Welsh coal was the best, current UK coal isn't suitable. It comes from Poland now.

lomiller · 22nd June 2020, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

To be fair, May didn't exactly help herself by unilaterally adding all those red lines, that made it near impossible to reach any kind of agreement with the EU, other than a hard brexit.

Those red lines reflected what Brexit supporters wanted and expected. Remember, I’m not saying that she could have done something better than what the UK is getting now. I’m saying that trying to implement the policies Brexit supporters and the political right want was never going to work, any honest attempt to make them work was always doomed to fail.

lomiller · 22nd June 2020, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Minette Batters of the National Farmers Union says For Boris Johnson "to sign up to a trade deal which results in opening our ports, shelves & fridges to food which would be illegal to produce here would not only be morally bankrupt, it would be the work of the insane."

UK farmers generally bought into the notion the UK would be able to sell the EU products that couldn’t be produced legally in the EU. I don’t know why it would surprise them find out that the people who thought this could happen are fine with importing US made products that couldn’t be made legally in the UK.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 22nd June 2020, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Those red lines reflected what Brexit supporters wanted and expected.

That's not true. The red lines were to appease hard-line Brexiteers, but that's not what the majority of people actually voted for.

ponderingturtle · 22nd June 2020, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

That's not true. The red lines were to appease hard-line Brexiteers, but that's not what the majority of people actually voted for.

Yes it was, they just didn't know it.

Captain_Swoop · 22nd June 2020, 09:11 AM

Boris Johnson's father is in the process of applying for a French passport to maintain his ties with Europe after Brexit.

Stanley Johnson, a former MEP who voted Remain in the referendum, has requested to become a French citizen as his mother Irene was born in Versailles.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9416636.html

Jack by the hedge · 22nd June 2020, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Yes it was, they just didn't know it.

Exactly. The nation voted by a massive 52 to 48 to get off the EU plane as it didn't like the imagined destination. And that's as good as saying we wanted to jump without a parachute. But don't worry because we'll knit a wonderful parachute before we jump. Oh. I mean after we jump, while we plummet. And a vote for Boris is a vote for absolutely not moving the ground further away to give us more time. Look at the people down there on the ground: they're fine, so what's the problem? And if we finish our knitting, which will be easy, remember not to touch the ripcord, because the EU will cave in any second now. Any second now. Any second.

ponderingturtle · 22nd June 2020, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

Exactly. The nation voted by a massive 52 to 48 to get off the EU plane as it didn't like the imagined destination. And that's as good as saying we wanted to jump without a parachute. But don't worry because we'll knit a wonderful parachute before we jump. Oh. I mean after we jump, while we plummet. And a vote for Boris is a vote for absolutely not moving the ground further away to give us more time. Look at the people down there on the ground: they're fine, so what's the problem? And if we finish our knitting, which will be easy, remember not to touch the ripcord, because the EU will cave in any second now. Any second now. Any second.

And at least they finished a nice warm woolly jumper or as they call it now, and Australian parachute.

lomiller · 22nd June 2020, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

That's not true. The red lines were to appease hard-line Brexiteers, but that's not what the majority of people actually voted for.

“Leave” voters voted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted the red lines (and other things) but didn’t want the consequences. Exactly what they were voting for still isn’t clear because it included things that were mutually exclusive from the start. I think there is no real world deal that would have won that referendum.

Wudang · 22nd June 2020, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

“Leave” voters voted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted the red lines (and other things) but didn’t want the consequences. Exactly what they were voting for still isn’t clear because it included things that were mutually exclusive from the start. I think there is no real world deal that would have won that referendum.

Exactly.

ponderingturtle · 22nd June 2020, 10:35 AM

How is the hiring and training of new border inspectors going with COVID? And is there going to be a hard Irish border on the 1st?

Wudang · 22nd June 2020, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

And is there going to be a hard Irish border on the 1st?

<mode=Raab>No there will be no hard border. The hard border will be fully manned and ready on the 1st. I think we've made that clear.</Raab>

P.J. Denyer · 22nd June 2020, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Wudang

<mode=Raab>No there will be no hard border. The hard border will be fully manned and ready on the 1st. I think we've made that clear.</Raab>

If you want your impression to be convincing you have to step in a waste paper basket then fall out of a window leaving your trousers snagged on the frame. Otherwise it smacks too much of competence.

Captain_Swoop · 22nd June 2020, 01:22 PM

Brexit is on course to cost the UK more than its combined total of payments to the European Union budget over the past 47 years.

Quote:

Brexit is set to have cost the UK more than £200 billion in lost economic growth by the end of this year — a figure that almost eclipses the total amount the UK has paid toward the European Union budget over the past 47 years.

According to research by Bloomberg Economics, the cost of the UK's vote to leave has already reached £130 billion, with a further £70 billion likely to be added by the end of 2020.

The analysis, by the economist Dan Hanson, found that business uncertainty had caused the UK's economic growth to lag behind that of other G7 countries since the 2016 vote.

That means the British economy is 3% smaller than it might have been if the UK had not voted to leave the EU.

https://www.businessinsider.com/brex...s-to-eu-2020-1

abaddon · 22nd June 2020, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Brexit is on course to cost the UK more than its combined total of payments to the European Union budget over the past 47 years.

https://www.businessinsider.com/brex...s-to-eu-2020-1

The Bank of England says you are heading for the biggest recession since 1706.

That is not a typo.

Think about that.

McHrozni · 22nd June 2020, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Brexit is on course to cost the UK more per year than its combined total of payments to the European Union budget over the past 47 years.

FTFY

McHrozni

19th June 2020, 07:01 AM	#82
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10,963	Originally Posted by McHrozni That's possible. But keep in mind his base is not 45% of the electorate, it's more like 20-25% of the electorate, with another 20% or so who go along with the charade in order to get certain things they want done. I don’t really see it that way. There is a core base who think crazy right wing polices are working and another core base who can see these ridiculous polies are not working and think that if you change the leader but keep all the crazy policies they will suddenly start to work. Neither group is ever going to vote for anyone else no matter how incompetent and repugnant “their side” is, because “the other side is worse”. The “other side is worse” because they oppose the crazy, unworkably and offensive polices. The UK has the same problem. Eg May legitimately tried her best to take the pile of ***** that was Brexit and negotiate a real agreement around it. This failed because there is no version of Brexit that is as good for the UK as remaining in the EU but instead of recognizing the basic policy was flawed Conservatives doubled down and put in a new leader who promised even stricter adherence to eh stupid policy idea. When BJ fails, they will blame him for “not doing it right” and find someone as bad or worse to pursue the same doomed polices.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

19th June 2020, 07:15 AM	#83
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 30,204	Originally Posted by lomiller Eg May legitimately tried her best to take the pile of ***** that was Brexit and negotiate a real agreement around it. That's quite a kind way of putting it. She insisted on pushing for a hardline Brexit, when that isn't what people voted for at all.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

19th June 2020, 08:29 AM	#85
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 94,203	Originally Posted by The Don Exactly, EEA membership would have been so much less damaging. Indeed only a no-deal would have been more damaging - but we're getting that anyway Hey give them a chance. I'm sure they will be able to end up with something that is worse than a no deal.....
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

19th June 2020, 10:55 AM	#87
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 30,204	There's definitely a part of me curious to see what a trade deal negotiated by Trump and Johnson would actually look like. So please, universe if you're listening, if we absolutely must have such a deal, let Johnson and Trump co-author the actual text personally, and then let us all read it. I expect determining by the language which of the two wrote which bit would be as difficult as determining by Sue Storm's haircut whether a particular scene in Josh Trank's Fan4stic was a re-shoot or not.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

19th June 2020, 11:00 AM	#88
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,102	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop The Tories are stealing public money via phoney contracts for hundreds of millions of pounds to phoney companies set up by their friends, families and donors. This is what kleptocracy looks like and it's 4 years until the next election. But don't worry, you're going to get Brexit ~~inflicted on you in the most painful and stupid way imaginable~~.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

18th June 2020, 03:57 PM	#81
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 29,355	The Tories are stealing public money via phoney contracts for hundreds of millions of pounds to phoney companies set up by their friends, families and donors. This is what kleptocracy looks like and it's 4 years until the next election.

19th June 2020, 07:20 AM	#84
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 30,304	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim That's quite a kind way of putting it. She insisted on pushing for a hardline Brexit, when that isn't what people voted for at all. Exactly, EEA membership would have been so much less damaging. Indeed only a no-deal would have been more damaging - but we're getting that anyway

19th June 2020, 08:33 AM	#86
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 30,304	Originally Posted by Darat Hey give them a chance. I'm sure they will be able to end up with something that is worse than a no deal..... Well that would be the US trade deal as envisaged by President Trump

19th June 2020, 11:02 AM	#89
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,102	Where are all the Brexiteers? Shouldn't they be here telling us how wonderful Brexit will be?
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

19th June 2020, 11:03 AM	#90
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 29,442	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop The Tories are stealing public money via phoney contracts for hundreds of millions of pounds to phoney companies set up by their friends, families and donors. This is what kleptocracy looks like and it's 4 years until the next election. Welcome to the USA under Trump. At least we've only got five months.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

20th June 2020, 02:00 AM	#91
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,281	Originally Posted by lomiller I don’t really see it that way. There is a core base who think crazy right wing polices are working and another core base who can see these ridiculous polies are not working and think that if you change the leader but keep all the crazy policies they will suddenly start to work. Neither group is ever going to vote for anyone else no matter how incompetent and repugnant “their side” is, because “the other side is worse”. The “other side is worse” because they oppose the crazy, unworkably and offensive polices. The UK has the same problem. Eg May legitimately tried her best to take the pile of ***** that was Brexit and negotiate a real agreement around it. This failed because there is no version of Brexit that is as good for the UK as remaining in the EU but instead of recognizing the basic policy was flawed Conservatives doubled down and put in a new leader who promised even stricter adherence to eh stupid policy idea. When BJ fails, they will blame him for “not doing it right” and find someone as bad or worse to pursue the same doomed polices. To be fair, May didn't exactly help herself by unilaterally adding all those red lines, that made it near impossible to reach any kind of agreement with the EU, other than a hard brexit. Johnson ran for leadership on a promise of using his charm and force of personality to negotiate an even better agreement for the UK, while maintaining the same red lines. I'm not convinced the EU, having stated for so long that they were not going to reopen negotiations, then allowed for some small tweaks, which Johnson then sold as proof that the EU would buckle under pressure.
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,281

20th June 2020, 02:03 AM	#92
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 30,304	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Welcome to the USA under Trump. At least we've only got five months. Or 4 years 5 months. Or 12 years 5 months if Ivanka successfully picks up where Dad left off

20th June 2020, 02:47 AM	#93
Mr Fied Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 493	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Conservative Home "The Voice of Conservatism" has published a piece by darren grimes on energy production 'post brexit' He says Shall I slap him or does someone else want that pleasure? https://www.conservativehome.com/the...orth-east.html And in the comments section, this gem: Quote: A sensible article, alas it will fall on deaf ears, primarily because we have a left-wing, scientifically-illiterate government that rather than scrapping the climate change act 2008, they instead made it even worse by adding net zero by 2050 - the most radical law ever passed by a UK government, which has guaranteed mass blackouts and economic destitution within the next 3 decades, and is a law no genuine conservative could ever support, just a pity the incompetent fool sitting in Downing Street isn't an actual conservative. Yeah, those namby pamby lefties, get some proper right wing Tories in to sort the country out.
Mr Fied Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 493

20th June 2020, 03:18 AM	#94
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 30,204	Peter Hitchens published an article a few days ago saying basically the same - that the left control every stratum of power. It's the "Deep State" given a new hat.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

21st June 2020, 02:50 AM	#95
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 29,355	Minette Batters of the National Farmers Union says For Boris Johnson "to sign up to a trade deal which results in opening our ports, shelves & fridges to food which would be illegal to produce here would not only be morally bankrupt, it would be the work of the insane."

21st June 2020, 03:02 AM	#96
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 30,304	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Minette Batters of the National Farmers Union says For Boris Johnson "to sign up to a trade deal which results in opening our ports, shelves & fridges to food which would be illegal to produce here would not only be morally bankrupt, it would be the work of the insane." And yet the farmers voted en-masse for Brexit. I'm finding it difficult to drum up too much sympathy. OTOH I am very concerned about food standards but I suppose hundreds of thousands of extra cases of food poisoning and a thousand extra deaths a year is a price worth paying for the blue passports it turns out we could have had all along if we were that bothered about it I suppose the large farming companies will be bought off with generous subsidies and the small farms will just go out of business making second homes so much cheaper for the urban wealth creators

21st June 2020, 03:03 AM	#97
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 29,355	Farmer's are overwhelmingly Tory. they were lied to by the party they support and fell for it.

21st June 2020, 03:25 AM	#98
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 15,712	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Farmer's are overwhelmingly Tory. they were lied to by the party they support and fell for it. I am not sure they bought the lies rather they bought the jingoism of the leave campaign and imagined that rules would be changed to benefit them without putting any thought into how the world and trade deals work or the weak position the UK would be in. Perhaps more a case of not thinking rather than believing what was put out. I have a farmer friend who sends his sheep to the EU who voted leave and is now facing 30%+ tariffs on a no deal WTO brexit. Doh!

21st June 2020, 04:52 AM	#99
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 5,233	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Conservative Home "The Voice of Conservatism" has published a piece by darren grimes on energy production 'post brexit' He says Shall I slap him or does someone else want that pleasure? https://www.conservativehome.com/the...orth-east.html And he's clearly not aware that recently we haven't needed to use coal for electricity generation.
	__________________ So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX

21st June 2020, 06:30 AM	#100
Mr Fied Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 493	Originally Posted by Garrison And he's clearly not aware that recently we haven't needed to use coal for electricity generation. But if we all went back to using coal there would be no need to re-open schools, the kids could all be employed up chimneys. Think of the extra income tax it would generate.
Mr Fied Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 493

21st June 2020, 07:27 AM	#101
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,636	Originally Posted by Mr Fied But if we all went back to using coal there would be no need to re-open schools, the kids could all be employed up chimneys. Think of the extra income tax it would generate. I'm sure a certain Leader if the House would find the idea 'uplifting'.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,636	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

21st June 2020, 07:42 AM	#102
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 29,442	Originally Posted by The Don Or 4 years 5 months. Or 12 years 5 months if Ivanka successfully picks up where Dad left off And I forgot to include the lame-duck period anyhow!
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

21st June 2020, 10:25 AM	#103
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 29,355	Originally Posted by Mr Fied But if we all went back to using coal there would be no need to re-open schools, the kids could all be employed up chimneys. Think of the extra income tax it would generate. No, send them back down the mines.

21st June 2020, 12:41 PM	#104
wobs Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Hull Posts: 2,256	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Conservative Home "The Voice of Conservatism" has published a piece by darren grimes on energy production 'post brexit' He says Shall I slap him or does someone else want that pleasure? https://www.conservativehome.com/the...orth-east.html To be fair, he's not really arguing for going back to coal for electricity generation, but for: Quote: There’s a massive domestic demand for coal in such industries as steel, cement, the UK’s heritage railways and even for the heating of rural homes. Going forward, once all coal-fired generation ceases, it’s estimated that the UK will still need around five million tonnes for these industries every year. I thought you were in favour of getting coal for heritage railways? Although we should be moving away from coal for steel, and we should cut back on cement/concrete use anyway. And we should really cut back on home use as well. I should also add that a new coal mine was approved end of last year in Cumbria for coking coal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-50274212 I'm not defending him, as we should be looking at alternatives, but there will be demand for coal in the UK, even at though its less than what it was.
	__________________ "To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."

21st June 2020, 05:36 PM	#105
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 29,355	We still have coal, it's not mined though, it comes from open cast. Heritage Railways need hard, low clinker, low sulfur coal. Soft coal breaks up and small fragments and dust gets lifted by the draught depositing in the fire tubes and smokebox, this reduces gas flow and heat transfer and reduces steaming. Clinker clogs the firebars reducing air flow and sulfur causes erosion of fire tubes and boiler tube plates. Welsh coal was the best, current UK coal isn't suitable. It comes from Poland now.

22nd June 2020, 07:15 AM	#106
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10,963	Originally Posted by KDLarsen To be fair, May didn't exactly help herself by unilaterally adding all those red lines, that made it near impossible to reach any kind of agreement with the EU, other than a hard brexit. Those red lines reflected what Brexit supporters wanted and expected. Remember, I’m not saying that she could have done something better than what the UK is getting now. I’m saying that trying to implement the policies Brexit supporters and the political right want was never going to work, any honest attempt to make them work was always doomed to fail.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

22nd June 2020, 07:29 AM	#107
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10,963	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Minette Batters of the National Farmers Union says For Boris Johnson "to sign up to a trade deal which results in opening our ports, shelves & fridges to food which would be illegal to produce here would not only be morally bankrupt, it would be the work of the insane." UK farmers generally bought into the notion the UK would be able to sell the EU products that couldn’t be produced legally in the EU. I don’t know why it would surprise them find out that the people who thought this could happen are fine with importing US made products that couldn’t be made legally in the UK.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

22nd June 2020, 07:40 AM	#108
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 30,204	Originally Posted by lomiller Those red lines reflected what Brexit supporters wanted and expected. That's not true. The red lines were to appease hard-line Brexiteers, but that's not what the majority of people actually voted for.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

22nd June 2020, 08:12 AM	#109
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 49,721	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim That's not true. The red lines were to appease hard-line Brexiteers, but that's not what the majority of people actually voted for. Yes it was, they just didn't know it.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

22nd June 2020, 09:11 AM	#110
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 29,355	Boris Johnson's father is in the process of applying for a French passport to maintain his ties with Europe after Brexit. Stanley Johnson, a former MEP who voted Remain in the referendum, has requested to become a French citizen as his mother Irene was born in Versailles. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9416636.html

22nd June 2020, 09:51 AM	#111
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,643	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Yes it was, they just didn't know it. Exactly. The nation voted by a massive 52 to 48 to get off the EU plane as it didn't like the imagined destination. And that's as good as saying we wanted to jump without a parachute. But don't worry because we'll knit a wonderful parachute before we jump. Oh. I mean after we jump, while we plummet. And a vote for Boris is a vote for absolutely not moving the ground further away to give us more time. Look at the people down there on the ground: they're fine, so what's the problem? And if we finish our knitting, which will be easy, remember not to touch the ripcord, because the EU will cave in any second now. Any second now. Any second.

22nd June 2020, 10:27 AM	#112
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 49,721	Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge Exactly. The nation voted by a massive 52 to 48 to get off the EU plane as it didn't like the imagined destination. And that's as good as saying we wanted to jump without a parachute. But don't worry because we'll knit a wonderful parachute before we jump. Oh. I mean after we jump, while we plummet. And a vote for Boris is a vote for absolutely not moving the ground further away to give us more time. Look at the people down there on the ground: they're fine, so what's the problem? And if we finish our knitting, which will be easy, remember not to touch the ripcord, because the EU will cave in any second now. Any second now. Any second. And at least they finished a nice warm woolly jumper or as they call it now, and Australian parachute.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

22nd June 2020, 10:28 AM	#113
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10,963	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim That's not true. The red lines were to appease hard-line Brexiteers, but that's not what the majority of people actually voted for. “Leave” voters voted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted the red lines (and other things) but didn’t want the consequences. Exactly what they were voting for still isn’t clear because it included things that were mutually exclusive from the start. I think there is no real world deal that would have won that referendum.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

22nd June 2020, 10:32 AM	#114
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 13,053	Originally Posted by lomiller “Leave” voters voted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted the red lines (and other things) but didn’t want the consequences. Exactly what they were voting for still isn’t clear because it included things that were mutually exclusive from the start. I think there is no real world deal that would have won that referendum. Exactly.
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

22nd June 2020, 10:35 AM	#115
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 49,721	How is the hiring and training of new border inspectors going with COVID? And is there going to be a hard Irish border on the 1st?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin