Continuation The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Yet when Biden is elected the infections will magically disappear.

No, but at least there will be an adult in charge.

[newyorkguy]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Remember the video of the city council meeting where some whack jobs made ridiculous anti-mask pleas? That was just a short version. Here are more of said whack jobs at that meeting. I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
https://www.facebook.com/NowThisElec...80394025712420

As my ex-Boss would say: "You can't make this stuff up!"

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Did anyone see Pence's pathetic response...twice... to being asked why Trump is having rallies when they aren't following Fauci's and Birx's recommendations?


What the hell does holding rallies during a surge in the pandemic have to do with the Constitution? Moron.

A perfect example of the old line, "Just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean you should do it!"

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

No, but at least there will be an adult in charge.

That was Eric Trump's claim last month, that the virus will magically disappear after the election, since it's a hoax orchestrated by the Democrats to make his father look bad.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Did anyone see Pence's pathetic response...twice... to being asked why Trump is having rallies when they aren't following Fauci's and Birx's recommendations?


What the hell does holding rallies during a surge in the pandemic have to do with the Constitution? Moron.

I agree with your assessment, but I have to admit I wish reporters didn't ask about Trump at all. I just think it would have been so cool if they had completely ignored him. Stick to questions about the work of the coronavirus task force. If they really, really, really, felt like asking about Trump, ask, "Mr. Vice President, does the task force have any recommendations about holding large public gatherings, such as indoor sporting events, theater performances, or other events that are held indoors with auditorium style seating?"

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Armitage72

That was Eric Trump's claim last month, that the virus will magically disappear after the election, since it's a hoax orchestrated by the Democrats to make his father look bad.

If that's what it was, I'm definitely voting for the Democrats. Their plan is working incredibly well, because Trump looks incredibly bad. That kind of competence is what we need in the oval office.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I agree with your assessment, but I have to admit I wish reporters didn't ask about Trump at all. I just think it would have been so cool if they had completely ignored him. Stick to questions about the work of the coronavirus task force. If they really, really, really, felt like asking about Trump, ask, "Mr. Vice President, does the task force have any recommendations about holding large public gatherings, such as indoor sporting events, theater performances, or other events that are held indoors with auditorium style seating?"

So why interview Pence at all? He's just a Trump mouthpiece.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

So why interview Pence at all? He's just a Trump mouthpiece.

I think the point was... Force pence to give an answer that contradicts Trump's actions. A question about "does the corona virus task force recommend large gatherings" means he will have to say something potentially embarrassing. Bringing trump into it allowed pence to weasel out of the question

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[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

So why interview Pence at all? He's just a Trump mouthpiece.

Because he made himself available. Also, he's the nominal head of the task force, so, in theory, he should be aware of all task force activities.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I think the point was... Force pence to give an answer that contradicts Trump's actions. A question about "does the corona virus task force recommend large gatherings" means he will have to say something potentially embarrassing. Bringing trump into it allowed pence to weasel out of the question

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

That's a big part of it.

Aside from that, though, I would love to see questions about coronavirus, instead of Trump.

Will schools be able to open in the Fall? What will it take to make that happen? How many tests per day? How many do we have? What's the plan to close the gap between need and have?

And if Pence can't give an answer to those questions, that's a lot more damning than offering an opinion about a handful of rallies with a couple of thousand people.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I think the point was... Force pence to give an answer that contradicts Trump's actions. A question about "does the corona virus task force recommend large gatherings" means he will have to say something potentially embarrassing. Bringing trump into it allowed pence to weasel out of the question

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Wishful thinking. He would only say something like people have to decide for themselves.

[newyorkguy]

On Wednesday trump renewed claims the Covid-19 epidemic is ending.

Quote:

President Trump went on a veritable interview tour on Wednesday — Sinclair, Gray TV, the Wall Street Journal, Fox News — and was thoroughly dismissive of the coronavirus threat in at least two of the interviews. Gray TV's DC bureau chief Jacqueline Policastro said to Trump, "Coronavirus cases are rising in 22 states, including Oklahoma, where you plan to hold a big rally this week. Aren't you worried about people getting sick?"

"No," Trump said, "because if you look, the numbers are very minuscule compared to what it was. It's dying out. CNN link

That evening trump told sean hannity the virus was "fading away."

Okay, so trump wants the virus to 'fade away' -- I guess everyone does, don't we? -- but yesterday the U.S. reported the highest number of new cases ever. Has trump walked back his statements of three days ago or at least modified them? The virus is 'dying out,' that it is 'fading away?' No he has not. As many people have said, compared to trump's getting reelected, the health and safety of American citizens are a distant second. It really seems that way, that trump -- our president! -- doesn't care whether the average American lives or dies.

Last year I would have closed this message by writing, "Sad!" but this has become too much. The lack of leadership from the top, the constant misinformation, he's literally killing people. People are getting sick in record numbers and trump is pretty much done with the Covid-19 outbreak. As newscasters have reported, for the most part it no longer has his attention.

Unbelievable.

[The Don]

Even though the number of new cases is at a record high, deaths are currently on a downward curve so President Trump and Vice President Pence can get away with saying that Coronavirus is on the way out.

Deaths are a lagging indicator so they may not be able to get away with it much longer. Then again, more testing may mean a lower proportion of fatalities as at the start you had to be very ill just to get a test. I fear however that the US may not even be halfway through the first wave of infection with only mid-single digits percent infected to date

[Mader Levap]

Don't worry. Virus will be dying, fading away and it's embers stomped out all way into November.

After January it will suddenly be most murderous calamity known to human and only Biden will be to blame. Okay, Obama too.

[llwyd]

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

Don't worry. Virus will be dying, fading away and it's embers stomped out all way into November.

After January it will suddenly be most murderous calamity known to human and only Biden will be to blame. Okay, Obama too.

Yep, certainly no biggie, maybe a hoax till November. And should Biden win, it will be the apocalypse and that degenerate swamp creature will be dancing on patriot graves, IMPEACH!!!!

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by llwyd

Yep, certainly no biggie, maybe a hoax till November. And should Biden win, it will be the apocalypse and that degenerate swamp creature will be dancing on patriot graves, IMPEACH!!!!

Actually I am surprised Republicans haven't found a way to blame Biden NOW.

Remember the claims that Obama triggered the great recession (even though he wasn't even president at the time) because people were worried he might win.


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[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by The Don

Even though the number of new cases is at a record high, deaths are currently on a downward curve so President Trump and Vice President Pence can get away with saying that Coronavirus is on the way out.

Deaths are a lagging indicator so they may not be able to get away with it much longer. Then again, more testing may mean a lower proportion of fatalities as at the start you had to be very ill just to get a test. I fear however that the US may not even be halfway through the first wave of infection with only mid-single digits percent infected to date

"Anyone who wants a test gets a test."

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

As my ex-Boss would say: "You can't make this stuff up!"

It's like a public hearing from a "Parks and Rec" episode.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

So why interview Pence at all? He's just a Trump mouthpiece.

Because Trump or Pence giving a press conference is a Biden campaign ad.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Craig4

Because Trump or Pence giving a press conference is a Biden campaign ad.

[JeanTate]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

On Wednesday trump renewed claims the Covid-19 epidemic is ending.


That evening trump told sean hannity the virus was "fading away."

Okay, so trump wants the virus to 'fade away' -- I guess everyone does, don't we? -- but yesterday the U.S. reported the highest number of new cases ever. Has trump walked back his statements of three days ago or at least modified them? The virus is 'dying out,' that it is 'fading away?' No he has not. As many people have said, compared to trump's getting reelected, the health and safety of American citizens are a distant second. It really seems that way, that trump -- our president! -- doesn't care whether the average American lives or dies.

Last year I would have closed this message by writing, "Sad!" but this has become too much. The lack of leadership from the top, the constant misinformation, he's literally killing people. People are getting sick in record numbers and trump is pretty much done with the Covid-19 outbreak. As newscasters have reported, for the most part it no longer has his attention.

Unbelievable.

I read a recent article (Forbes, IIRC) making the case that it’s deliberate cruelty, consistent with his upbringing and history as a businessman. I guess a soon-to-be-released book may provide more evidence for this idea ...

[zorro99]

Vice President Pence postponed planned campaign events in Arizona and Florida next week “out of an abundance of caution” amid spikes in coronavirus cases in those states, a Trump-Pence reelection campaign official said Saturday.

Meanwhile, the grim reality of the virus continued to batter states facing rising infections, with Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Nevada hitting new highs in daily cases reported, while Arizona set a record on current hospitalizations. More than 42,000 new cases have been reported nationally as of late Saturday afternoon, the second day in a row that new cases have risen above 40,000.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ve-updates-us/

[Safe-Keeper]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

On Wednesday trump renewed claims the Covid-19 epidemic is ending.


That evening trump told sean hannity the virus was "fading away."

Okay, so trump wants the virus to 'fade away' -- I guess everyone does, don't we? -- but yesterday the U.S. reported the highest number of new cases ever. Has trump walked back his statements of three days ago or at least modified them? The virus is 'dying out,' that it is 'fading away?' No he has not. As many people have said, compared to trump's getting reelected, the health and safety of American citizens are a distant second. It really seems that way, that trump -- our president! -- doesn't care whether the average American lives or dies.

Last year I would have closed this message by writing, "Sad!" but this has become too much. The lack of leadership from the top, the constant misinformation, he's literally killing people. People are getting sick in record numbers and trump is pretty much done with the Covid-19 outbreak. As newscasters have reported, for the most part it no longer has his attention.

Unbelievable.

At least it seems to be reflected in his approval ratings.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by zorro99

Vice President Pence postponed planned campaign events in Arizona and Florida next week “out of an abundance of caution” amid spikes in coronavirus cases in those states, a Trump-Pence reelection campaign official said Saturday.

Meanwhile, the grim reality of the virus continued to batter states facing rising infections, with Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Nevada hitting new highs in daily cases reported, while Arizona set a record on current hospitalizations. More than 42,000 new cases have been reported nationally as of late Saturday afternoon, the second day in a row that new cases have risen above 40,000.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ve-updates-us/

Arizona is just zooming up in numbers of cases. I was surprised when they passed Michigan today. Trump's coronavirus narrative is kind of falling apart.

Well.....it's falling apart so much that even the faithful are able to see it.

[newyorkguy]

This past Wednesday New York, New Jersey and Connecticut announced they would be requiring visitors or local residents returning from Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas and Utah to self-quarantine for 14-days.

Quote:

[Governor Andrew] Cuomo, who hosted the news conference from New York City, was joined via video link by Gov. Philip D. Murphy of New Jersey and Gov. Ned Lamont of Connecticut, all three Democrats. “This is a smart thing to do. We have taken our people, the three of us, these three states, through hell and back,” Mr. Murphy said. “The last thing we need to do is subject our folks to another round." New York Times link

The decision was undoubtedly driven by a recent spate of infections in suburban New York, traced back to a teen who had recently been in Florida. From the New York Post:

Quote:

Gov. Andrew Cuomo called on state investigators Saturday to probe a COVID-19 cluster in Westchester, believed to be caused by a student who attended a graduation ceremony in Chappaqua after returning from coronavirus hotspot Florida. The unidentified student began showing symptoms after the June 20 “drive in” ceremony at the Chappaqua train station for graduating seniors at Horace Greeley High School, Cuomo said. Since then, four others in attendance have tested positive for COVID-19, the governor said. New York Post link

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Arizona is just zooming up in numbers of cases. I was surprised when they passed Michigan today. Trump's coronavirus narrative is kind of falling apart.

Well.....it's falling apart so much that even the faithful are able to see it.

Faithful, maybe, but not the True Believers (TM).

[acbytesla]

Haven't you all heard? Trump says the Coronavirus is a phony issue.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

At least it seems to be reflected in his approval ratings.

Not really, 40%+ still approve.

40% of the US electorate reckon that he's doing a good job, not that they'd vote for him out of party loyalty or because they're hopeful that he'll further their pet cause. It's quite frankly unbelievable

[Aridas]

Federal officials allowed distribution of COVID-19 antibody tests after they knew many were flawed

[newyorkguy]

More bad news. This is from CNN.

Quote:

A staggering rise was reported in 36 states, including Florida, which some experts have cautioned could be the next epicenter. Florida reported 9,585 new coronavirus cases Saturday, a single-day record high since the start of the pandemic. The number rivals that of New York's peak in daily cases in early April. While Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said the state's surge in cases in the past week was the result of a "test dump," officials there and across the US have also warned of an increase in cases among younger groups.

But the daunting numbers could just be the tip of the iceberg: A new survey by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggests the total number of coronavirus infections across the US could actually be six to 24 times greater than reported. CNN link

What is very concerning to me is, back in March and April many public health officials, including Dr. Anthony Fauci, thought as the summer began new cases should begin dropping to very low levels. Of course, the belief we would have a summer respite -- before the onslaught of the traditional fall flu season -- was based on states following the guidelines as laid out by health officials. That was to only begin relaxing restrictions after fourteen consecutive days of declining new cases or positive test results. But many states did not follow those guidelines and instead reopened when the trend in new cases flattened but with continual dips and spikes.

Yet here we are at the end of June and new cases in many states, and in the U.S. as a whole, are at 'highest ever' levels.

Google/Wiki tracker for Florida

[slyjoe]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

More bad news. This is from CNN.


What is very concerning to me is, back in March and April many public health officials, including Dr. Anthony Fauci, thought as the summer began new cases should begin dropping to very low levels. Of course, the belief we would have a summer respite -- before the onslaught of the traditional fall flu season -- was based on states following the guidelines as laid out by health officials. That was to only begin relaxing restrictions after fourteen consecutive days of declining new cases or positive test results. But many states did not follow those guidelines and instead reopened when the trend in new cases flattened but with continual dips and spikes.

Yet here we are at the end of June and new cases in many states, and in the U.S. as a whole, are at 'highest ever' levels.

Google/Wiki tracker for Florida

One issue I remember thinking about at the time - the CDC experts had guidelines for when to re-open, but I don't remember guidelines as to when to re-close. Our idiot AZ governor, lagging behind even Texas and Florida, has done nothing.

[Beelzebuddy]

Originally Posted by slyjoe

One issue I remember thinking about at the time - the CDC experts had guidelines for when to re-open, but I don't remember guidelines as to when to re-close. Our idiot AZ governor, lagging behind even Texas and Florida, has done nothing.

"When cases start to rise again," obv. But if they didn't follow the guidelines for reopening, why would they follow them for reclosing?

[newyorkguy]

Florida is really having a bad time. New cases are rising sharply, having nearly doubled in two days. Positive testing rates have almost tripled since early June, rising from under 5% to 13%. Incredibly, Florida governor DeSantis continues to downplay the outbreak. DeSantis even seems to be trying to shift some of the 'blame' to the news media. Below is a quote from a news story yesterday from a local newspaper, the Tampa Bay Times.

Quote:

Gov Ron DeSantis has repeatedly said the surge in cases can be largely attributed to more testing, which he said again at a news conference on Friday. “Obviously, a lot of news saying, ‘a huge number of, quote, cases,’” DeSantis said. “Really nothing has changed in the past week in terms of, we had a big test dump. Ten to 15 percent have been testing positive for really the last week.”...At points during the news conference, DeSantis seemed to blame the spike on a lack of attention paid to the virus. Floridians took their eye off the ball in part because, he said, the news media covered it less amid national anti-racism protests. Tampa Bay Times

Apparently, like the man in the White House, DeSantis is also a liar, who will lie to the public when it is politically helpful for him.

Quote:

”I would do press events in May, I would never be asked about coronavirus, it was about all these other things,” the governor said. But, in fact, reporters questioned him about it at every press briefing he held last month.

By the way, as for states reclosing, I'm not sure there are any guidelines. Among others, Dr. Anthony Fauci has said, he doesn't see that happening. Below is a quote from Fauci's Congressional testimony last week.

Quote:

“I wouldn’t necessarily say an absolute shutdown, lockdown, but if someone is going from gateway to phase one to phase two and they get into trouble in phase two, they may need to go back to phase one,” Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told members of Congress during a hearing before the House Energy and Commerce Committee. “I don’t think they necessarily need to go back to lockdown.” CNBC report

I'm not sure why Fauci is saying that, but he's been pretty consistent. Much earlier Dr. Fauci had said that realistically, once a state had gone from shutdown to reopening he doubted they would impose a new shutdown. He just didn't see that happening. A couple months ago that was exactly why he was urging states to err on the cautious side before deciding to reopen.

[newyorkguy]

You can't make this stuff up. And I'm saying it!

Think trump cares whether his supporters live or die as long as they survive long enough to vote for him? Before the trump rally at Bank of Oklahoma arena in Tulsa, trump campaign workers removed social distancing stickers that arena staff had put on every-other-seat. From a CNN report

Quote:

Then on the day of the rally, when event staff had already placed the stickers on nearly every other seat in the 19,000-seat arena, the Trump campaign told event management to stop and then began removing the stickers, according to a person familiar with the event who spoke to the Washington Post on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal matters. Tim Murtaugh, the Trump campaign's communications director, didn't address the sticker removal incident but instead touted the health precautions that were taken for the event... \After the majority of the stickers were in place, a member of Trump's campaign radioed staff in the event war room where arena management was monitoring preparations and told them to stop, according to the person familiar with the event who spoke to the Post. Event staff was told to continue applying the stickers. Later, the campaign began pulling them off, the person said.

By the time Trump took the stage in the arena, attendees were seen not adhering to social distancing guidelines, instead being clustered together with no empty seats between one another. No stickers can be seen on the seats either. CNN link

[Beelzebuddy]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Florida is really having a bad time.

Florida Man, Florida Man
Nobody tells him what he can do, man
On the wait list for a ventilator
Florida Man

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

More bad news. This is from CNN.


What is very concerning to me is, back in March and April many public health officials, including Dr. Anthony Fauci, thought as the summer began new cases should begin dropping to very low levels. Of course, the belief we would have a summer respite -- before the onslaught of the traditional fall flu season -- was based on states following the guidelines as laid out by health officials. That was to only begin relaxing restrictions after fourteen consecutive days of declining new cases or positive test results. But many states did not follow those guidelines and instead reopened when the trend in new cases flattened but with continual dips and spikes.

Yet here we are at the end of June and new cases in many states, and in the U.S. as a whole, are at 'highest ever' levels.

Google/Wiki tracker for Florida

The "six to 24 times greater" number seems to me to be actually incredibly good news. It would mean that at least 5 out of 6 infected people did not even know they were infected, ever.

As for the huge numbers in Florida et. al, that's pretty bad news, but there might be a silver lining there, too. If they aren't accompanied by huge numbers of hospitalizations and deaths, then there would be some truth to the belief that increased testing is responsible for the high numbers.

From what I have seen, hospitalizations are in fact way up, but we aren't seeing the kind of horror stories that we saw in New York when then were reporting comparable case loads. We aren't seeing stories about refrigerator trucks being used as makeshift morgues because the hospital morgues were overflowing.

It's still bad, but maybe not quite as bad as it seems.

ETA: My biggest fear is that there are so many new cases in Florida, circulating among a non-locked down population, that we are about to see a huge, huge, increase. Stay tuned.

[Beelzebuddy]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

From what I have seen, hospitalizations are in fact way up, but we aren't seeing the kind of horror stories that we saw in New York when then were reporting comparable case loads. We aren't seeing stories about refrigerator trucks being used as makeshift morgues because the hospital morgues were overflowing.

IIRC hospitalizations mostly happened in the later stages of the infection. Give it a week.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

IIRC hospitalizations mostly happened in the later stages of the infection. Give it a week.

That seems likely, but I'm trying to be optimistic. I hope it doesn't get as bad as New York did. I'm hoping that part of the huge numbers are because we know about a lot more asymptomatic cases.

My fear is that the asymptomatic cases are spreading like wildfire, and we'll see 20,000 new cases a day in Florida, and the number of symptomatic cases will follow the trend.

[Ulf Nereng]

It is also likely that deaths after hospitalizations will drop a fair amount because doctors now have a couple more tools in their toolbox than they did back in march.

[Safe-Keeper]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

You can't make this stuff up. And I'm saying it!

Think trump cares whether his supporters live or die as long as they survive long enough to vote for him? Before the trump rally at Bank of Oklahoma arena in Tulsa, trump campaign workers removed social distancing stickers that arena staff had put on every-other-seat. From a CNN report

The discourse on, well, every social issue in the States these days has become so politicized and polarized that I don't think Trump dares take Covid-19 seriously, out of fear of alienating his base. I don't know if it is that he doesn't care per se, but that he's worked so hard on his strongman image and his the-virus-isn't-dangerous shtick that he doesn't dare depart from it. After all, his a significant part of his supporters are the type who sees it as a grave violation of their rights to... something if you ask them to socially distance or put on a mask.

Or... what do I know. Trump works in mysterious days, xD chess, etc.