[Continuation] The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2 - Page 5

Skeptic Ginger · 2nd July 2020, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

I think an even better sliver lining would be if he survived to admit he was wrong and raise public awareness.

Like Gary Busey and helmet laws for motorcycle riding. He was an activist against mandatory helmet laws until he got a serious brain injury from a motorcycle accident.

Cain is 74. He might not have a mild case.

Stacyhs · 2nd July 2020, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Not seen now, but one of the original photos in that Statesman article showed a protestor with a sign that said “goy kno,” which is an antisemitic in-joke among white nationalist types. Great crowd.

It's Alex Jones. A "great crowd" is a given.

Mader Levap · 3rd July 2020, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Does that ever happen? What's this about "weakening"?

It can happen, but not in way these morons think. There is strong evolutionary pressure to make virus less harmful. Not less infectious, mind you. So pretty much as you guessed.

There are few hundred different viruses causing something we call "common cold". I am quite sure significant part of them were in far, far away past worse.

Obviously, there is no guarantee it will actually happen and even if it happens, it will take long time.

Craig4 · 3rd July 2020, 05:22 AM

I think President Dumb **** just lost Texas. One of the dogs usually first in line to hump Trump's leg (Gov. Abbot) just issued a mask order.

slyjoe · 3rd July 2020, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

...or, The PDJT.

or the IDJT (Impeached Donald J. Trump)

The Don · 3rd July 2020, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

I think President Dumb **** just lost Texas. One of the dogs usually first in line to hump Trump's leg (Gov. Abbot) just issued a mask order.

I applaud your optimism but IMO when Joe (or Josie) Tex steps into the voting booth in November, they'll still vote GOP regardless of the administration's mishandling of Coronavirus and of the economic mess because of guns and God.

lomiller · 3rd July 2020, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

The Governor of Texas orders masks mandatory.
I suspect some fireworks since the Lt. Governor stated yesterday that Fauci does not know what he is talking about and has hinted that the virus is a medis plot to get Trump.

There was a sudden shift in talking points from Republicans all across the country towards mandatory mask use. Clearly this is part of an organized strategy. I don't expect it will be long before these people are all claiming Republicans were promoting mask use all along and it was the Democrats holding things up.

Darat · 3rd July 2020, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

I think President Dumb **** just lost Texas. One of the dogs usually first in line to hump Trump's leg (Gov. Abbot) just issued a mask order.

What on earth are you going on about, Trump was always telling people to wear masks, even before they'd even heard about the virus!!??

lomiller · 3rd July 2020, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I wonder how people think viruses weaken.

They don't get old and tired. They are little bits of protein that reproduce, making copies of themselves. How would a virus "weaken"? I guess it would have to mutate to a form that was just as contagious, less dangerous, but similar enough to the original that antibodies against the less dangerous form also protected against the original.

Does that ever happen? What's this about "weakening"?

IIRC less dangerous strains usually have a small evolutionary advantage and eventually outcompete the more dangerous ones. There is no evidence of this happening yet with COVID-19 so far as I know.

Meadmaker · 3rd July 2020, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

There was a sudden shift in talking points from Republicans all across the country towards mandatory mask use. Clearly this is part of an organized strategy. I don't expect it will be long before these people are all claiming Republicans were promoting mask use all along and it was the Democrats holding things up.

Agents of Goldstein were responsible for telling people not to wear masks.

Segnosaur · 3rd July 2020, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

What on earth are you going on about, Trump was always telling people to wear masks, even before they'd even heard about the virus!!??

It was the Obama administration that prevented people from wearing masks.

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

acbytesla · 3rd July 2020, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I wonder how people think viruses weaken.

They don't get old and tired. They are little bits of protein that reproduce, making copies of themselves. How would a virus "weaken"? I guess it would have to mutate to a form that was just as contagious, less dangerous, but similar enough to the original that antibodies against the less dangerous form also protected against the original.

Does that ever happen? What's this about "weakening"?

Originally Posted by lomiller

IIRC less dangerous strains usually have a small evolutionary advantage and eventually outcompete the more dangerous ones. There is no evidence of this happening yet with COVID-19 so far as I know.

This!

That pretty well describes the process.

But you do know that Republicans don't believe in evolution.

Giordano · 3rd July 2020, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

IIRC less dangerous strains usually have a small evolutionary advantage and eventually outcompete the more dangerous ones. There is no evidence of this happening yet with COVID-19 so far as I know.

It depends on the nature of the virus and it’s modes of transmission. The selection is for what maximizes viral spread. For a particular type of virus that may be selection for a less rapidly lethal form of disease so that the infected host is up and about spreading the virus around. This was observed for a myxomatosis virus and rabbits in Australia. But for a different type of virus and/or a different environment a rapidly lethal disease that produces a large burst of viruses in a short time may spread the virus better.

I imagine a less rapidly lethal virus is selected among sparsely populated hosts for e.g.

dudalb · 3rd July 2020, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

There was a sudden shift in talking points from Republicans all across the country towards mandatory mask use. Clearly this is part of an organized strategy. I don't expect it will be long before these people are all claiming Republicans were promoting mask use all along and it was the Democrats holding things up.

True, but that is what you can expect from politicans in general.

Skeptic Ginger · 3rd July 2020, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

It can happen, but not in way these morons think. There is strong evolutionary pressure to make virus less harmful. Not less infectious, mind you. So pretty much as you guessed. ....

Originally Posted by Giordano

It depends on the nature of the virus and it’s modes of transmission. The selection is for what maximizes viral spread. For a particular type of virus that may be selection for a less rapidly lethal form of disease so that the infected host is up and about spreading the virus around. This was observed for a myxomatosis virus and rabbits in Australia. But for a different type of virus and/or a different environment a rapidly lethal disease that produces a large burst of viruses in a short time may spread the virus better.

I imagine a less rapidly lethal virus is selected among sparsely populated hosts for e.g.

No sure how "sparsely populated" affects a pathogen's transmission. I would think absent a nearby host to infect would help the virus die out.

Giordano is right though, there are multiple selection factors. Take the MRSA 300 strain (bacteria but still a good example), it became the dominant strain and spread rapidly worldwide. It was the result of a mutation that allowed the Panton–Valentine leukocidin toxin to form. The bacteria became more virulent, not less yet that strain spread.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

It was the Obama administration that prevented people from wearing masks....

Trump is claiming the N95 masks were depleted under Obama for the 2009 flu and not replaced.

He's oblivious to the last 3.5 years when he could have replaced the stock.

Delphic Oracle · 3rd July 2020, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Trump is claiming the N95 masks were depleted under Obama for the 2009 flu and not replaced.

He's oblivious to the last 3.5 years when he could have replaced the stock.

Also the Republican-controlled Congress that never allocated funds to replenish those supplies during Obama's terms.

acbytesla · 3rd July 2020, 01:10 PM

This sign on an Arizona vintage store telling patrons they must wear masks is amusing.

"If you choose not to wear a mask, we respectfully ask that you postpone your visit,”

“We will be happy to debate the efficacy of masks with you when this is all over and you come in to sell your dead grandmother's clothes."

smartcooky · 3rd July 2020, 02:51 PM

The Trump Administration's Coronavirus strategy has been complete, disastrous, cluster-****. It defies belief that a US Government effort can be so incompetent, but the graph doesn't lie.

Europe has closed its borders to people from the USA or transiting through the USA... and with good reason.

Venom · 3rd July 2020, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

IIRC less dangerous strains usually have a small evolutionary advantage and eventually outcompete the more dangerous ones. There is no evidence of this happening yet with COVID-19 so far as I know.

Regarding this, the COVID19 virus SARS-CoV-2 itself can be understood as a less virulent and acute cousin of the original SARS virus and MERS virus, so I think we're seeing what a moderate acute respiratory disease can do compared to its more dangerous relatives.

varwoche · 3rd July 2020, 08:26 PM

Kimberly Guilfoyle has tested positive. DJTJ is in isolation.

I'm all broken up over this.

Segnosaur · 4th July 2020, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

Kimberly Guilfoyle has tested positive. DJTJ is in isolation.

I'm all broken up over this.

Sadly, Trump Jr tested negative but he is in isolation as a precaution.

And unfortunately she had not had contact with stubby Mcbonespurs for a while.

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

carlitos · 4th July 2020, 05:20 PM

I know that it’s tone trolling or whatever, and I promise to only say it this one time. Can we please not wish that anyone, anywhere gets a potentially deadly virus? If nothing else, they aid on the spread that may get someone that you don’t want to get sick.

eerok · 4th July 2020, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

I know that it’s tone trolling or whatever, and I promise to only say it this one time. Can we please not wish that anyone, anywhere gets a potentially deadly virus? If nothing else, they aid on the spread that may get someone that you don’t want to get sick.

I think that's a good idea.

Horatius · 4th July 2020, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

I know that it’s tone trolling or whatever, and I promise to only say it this one time. Can we please not wish that anyone, anywhere gets a potentially deadly virus? If nothing else, they aid on the spread that may get someone that you don’t want to get sick.

Nope, sorry, can't do that. These people have made it clear they are either unable or unwilling to learn from the misfortune of others, and start acting as needed to fix this mess. At this point, a full-force bitch-slap from reality is the only thing that could possibly make them open their ******* eyes.

These people went out of their way to become the leaders of the United States, and when they were finally called on to actually lead, they ****** off and didn't even try. They need to have their folly rubbed in their faces, and getting sick with COVID is just about the only way to actually do that.

newyorkguy · 4th July 2020, 07:12 PM

NBC News and other sources are reporting the trump White House will be rolling out a new message for Americans next week about coronavirus. Basically it sounds like, don't worry so much.

Quote:

After several months of mixed messages on the coronavirus pandemic, the White House is settling on a new one: Learn to live with it...At the crux of the message, officials said, is a recognition by the White House that the virus is not going away any time soon — and will be around through the November election.

As a result, President Donald Trump's top advisers plan to argue, the country must figure out how to press forward despite it. Therapeutic drugs will be showcased as a key component for doing that and the White House will increasingly emphasize the relatively low risk most Americans have of dying from the virus, officials said. NBC News report

Resume · 4th July 2020, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

NBC News and other sources are reporting the trump White House will be rolling out a new message for Americans next week about coronavirus. Basically it sounds like, don't worry so much.

Oh look, it's the "We ain't doin' jack ****" plan.

What a leader!

acbytesla · 4th July 2020, 08:02 PM

Here is a Trump supporter explaining to the Grim Reaper how the Coronavirus made it to the US.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Meadmaker · 4th July 2020, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Here is a Trump supporter explaining to the Grim Reaper how the Coronavirus made it to the US.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

I think it's kind of cool that someone wore a Grim Reaper outfit to a Florida beach.

It's hard to follow the stats on this darned virus. I have a page provided by Bing bookmarked as my go to "How many cases were there yesterday" page and today for July 4, they showed 133,000 new cases. I can only assume that's a data anomaly, and not an actual number of new cases.

In other news, i always follow the comparative number of cases between states to see how my neighborhood, Michigan, is doing. North Carolina has pulled to within 1,000 new cases, and should pass us if present trends continue in 1-3 days.

Meanwhile, a few days back I noted that we weren't seeing the horror stories about ventilator shortages and overworked health care workers that we saw in New York at the peek of the pandemic there. As people predicted, today, I saw a few such stories out of Texas.

Politically, all I can say about Trump's new campaign strategy is that I am glad to see him running on his record. People should very much judge him on his success or failure handling this crisis. It has been a real test of his leadership, and I hope people give an honest assessment of how he's doing.

Meadmaker · 4th July 2020, 11:10 PM

From an NYT article today:

Quote:

Like New York City in March, the Houston hospitals are experiencing a steep rise in caseloads that is filling their beds, stretching their staffing, creating a backlog in testing and limiting the availability of other medical services. Attempts to buy more supplies — including certain protective gear, vital-sign monitors and testing components — are frustrated by weeks of delays, according to hospital leaders.

How disgusting is this? No other nation has experience this kind of resurgence. Even more unforgivable, Donald Trump imposed his travel ban at the end of January, so, obviously, he knew this coronavirus thing was going to be a big deal. Five months later, hospitals are scrambling for PPE.

Are we great again yet?

Skeptic Ginger · 4th July 2020, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

From an NYT article today:

How disgusting is this? No other nation has experience this kind of resurgence. Even more unforgivable, Donald Trump imposed his travel ban at the end of January, so, obviously, he knew this coronavirus thing was going to be a big deal. Five months later, hospitals are scrambling for PPE.

Are we great again yet?

Trump and his followers think they can just ignore it. People only getting mild cases,

It was only a matter of time, a couple weeks, the case numbers rise, the hospitals begin to fill up, the increase in the death rate follows.

They're actually claiming since the death rate hasn't risen, all is well. Another week and they'll have to change the talking points memos.

Good luck with that.

Aridas · 4th July 2020, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Resume

Oh look, it's the "We ain't doin' jack ****" plan.

What a leader!

A.K.A. the plan that Trump's been strongly favoring all along.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

From an NYT article today:

How disgusting is this? No other nation has experience this kind of resurgence. Even more unforgivable, Donald Trump imposed his travel ban at the end of January, so, obviously, he knew this coronavirus thing was going to be a big deal. Five months later, hospitals are scrambling for PPE.

Are we great again yet?

...If Trump was normal in the head, that "obviously" might follow. Trump isn't. Trump almost certainly did it as just another "Look at how tough I am on China" thing, even though it was weak as crap, given that the major airlines had already stopped flights.

Trump might have been trying to wish it away with the power of positive thinking, of course?

smartcooky · 5th July 2020, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Here is a Trump supporter explaining to the Grim Reaper how the Coronavirus made it to the US.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

There really, truly, IS NO CURE FOR STUPID!!

smartcooky · 5th July 2020, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Trump and his followers think they can just ignore it. People only getting mild cases,

It was only a matter of time, a couple weeks, the case numbers rise, the hospitals begin to fill up, the increase in the death rate follows.

They're actually claiming since the death rate hasn't risen, all is well. Another week and they'll have to change the talking points memos.

Good luck with that.

Our government didn't take us completely off restrictions until we had zero new cases for over two weeks (it was actually 18 days). Since then, we have had zero new cases in the general community. The few isolated new cases we have are all returning New Zealanders who presented with the disease during managed isolation or quarantine.

The result is for a population for 5 million, a total of just over 1500 cases, and 22 deaths. This is what it takes to beat this thing.

- The government listening to the scientists and following their instructions to the letter.
- Following your government's instructions.
- Working together with the other members of your community.

Safe-Keeper · 5th July 2020, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by Aridas

...If Trump was normal in the head, that "obviously" might follow. Trump isn't. Trump almost certainly did it as just another "Look at how tough I am on China" thing, even though it was weak as crap, given that the major airlines had already stopped flights.

Also he had to do something so that his little supporters could sit there and claim "he did more against the virus than anyone else in the world!".

newyorkguy · 5th July 2020, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

...I always follow the comparative number of cases between states to see how my neighborhood, Michigan, is doing. North Carolina has pulled to within 1,000 new cases, and should pass us if present trends continue in 1-3 days...

Assessing how your state is doing based on total cases can be misleading, can't it? I'm sure my state, New York, is still number one among total cases but we're way down on the list when it comes to new cases or trending. In my neighborhood, positive results from testing in Bronx County have fallen from over 1,000 a day in April to under one hundred by June. The positive rate for daily testing has gone from a high of over 20% to about 1%. That tells me we're doing an effective job in reducing the rate of infection. Looking at total case numbers doesn't tell me that.

Looking at Michigan and North Carolina daily new case charts shows the disease has trended way down in Michigan but remains on a steady rise in North Carolina. On Friday North Carolina reported roughly four times the number of new cases as did Michigan. I would say Michigan has done a pretty good job whereas North Carolina has a problem. Link to Google/Wiki tracker

The one trend that would bear watching in Michigan is the uptick in new cases the state has been seeing since late June. July 4th saw almost twice as many new cases reported as June 29th. It looks like Michigan bottomed out in mid-June but since then is seeing an upward trend. Since Michigan is one of the states where there has been organized resistance to safety measures that rise is a bit concerning.

Meadmaker · 5th July 2020, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Assessing how your state is doing based on total cases can be misleading, can't it?

Agreed. I'm noting that North Carolina is growing faster than Michigan, but the rise in Michigan is of great concern.

Although there has been organized resistance here in Michigan, that's just some high profile yahoos. I think that in general we are doing pretty good, and our governor deserves a lot of the credit for that. Sure the measures were not universally acclaimed, but we locked down quick and stayed locked down, and we went from number 2 in the country down to, 11 or 12.

Like almost everywhere, we have an uptick, but not as bad as those states which ignored the threat and opened up pretty far. I find the uptick disturbing, and we don't have nearly enough mask use compliance for my tastes, but we aren't doing too bad. If you go into a store, most people are masked.

We'll see. There's plenty of idiocy here in Michigan, but the results will tell the tale.

newyorkguy · 5th July 2020, 07:09 AM

This story I'm quoting is from a week ago though I learned of it this morning, as apparently this is still going on. There was a story about this scam in this morning's edition of a local news bulletin I subscribe to. Some scam artists are selling boxes of cards that supposedly exempt the bearer from having to wear a face mask in public or in stores because doing so "poses a mental and/or physical risk to me." From an NPR story:

Quote:

A recently issued alert by the [U.S. Justice] department is urging the public not to heed information printed on the fraudulent cards, which purport to carry the authority of the "Freedom to Breathe Agency," which is neither a federal nor a state agency. NPR link

Mader Levap · 5th July 2020, 10:34 AM

Ah, murica. Where using mask is political issue, not medical advice.

The Great Zaganza · 5th July 2020, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

Ah, murica. Where using mask is political issue, not medical advice.

If the Democrats are for it, it must be bad for you.

Resume · 5th July 2020, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Commander Inept

99% of coronavirius cases are totally harmless.

No, they're not.

2nd July 2020, 11:22 PM	#161
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 82,981	Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets I think an even better sliver lining would be if he survived to admit he was wrong and raise public awareness. Like Gary Busey and helmet laws for motorcycle riding. He was an activist against mandatory helmet laws until he got a serious brain injury from a motorcycle accident. Cain is 74. He might not have a mild case.
	__________________ ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is. Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out. Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 2nd July 2020 at 11:23 PM.

3rd July 2020, 04:59 AM	#163
Mader Levap Muse Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 982	Originally Posted by Meadmaker Does that ever happen? What's this about "weakening"? It can happen, but not in way these morons think. There is strong evolutionary pressure to make virus less harmful. Not less infectious, mind you. So pretty much as you guessed. There are few hundred different viruses causing something we call "common cold". I am quite sure significant part of them were in far, far away past worse. Obviously, there is no guarantee it will actually happen and even if it happens, it will take long time.
Mader Levap Muse Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 982	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Trump is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

3rd July 2020, 05:22 AM	#164
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State. Posts: 21,084	I think President Dumb **** just lost Texas. One of the dogs usually first in line to hump Trump's leg (Gov. Abbot) just issued a mask order.
	__________________ A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.

3rd July 2020, 06:19 AM	#165
slyjoe Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 2,064	Originally Posted by alfaniner ...or, The PDJT. or the IDJT (Impeached Donald J. Trump)
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

3rd July 2020, 08:25 AM	#167
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10,921	Originally Posted by dudalb The Governor of Texas orders masks mandatory. I suspect some fireworks since the Lt. Governor stated yesterday that Fauci does not know what he is talking about and has hinted that the virus is a medis plot to get Trump. There was a sudden shift in talking points from Republicans all across the country towards mandatory mask use. Clearly this is part of an organized strategy. I don't expect it will be long before these people are all claiming Republicans were promoting mask use all along and it was the Democrats holding things up.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

2nd July 2020, 11:37 PM	#162
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 15,338	Originally Posted by carlitos Not seen now, but one of the original photos in that Statesman article showed a protestor with a sign that said “goy kno,” which is an antisemitic in-joke among white nationalist types. Great crowd. It's Alex Jones. A "great crowd" is a given.

3rd July 2020, 06:36 AM	#166
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 29,784	Originally Posted by Craig4 I think President Dumb **** just lost Texas. One of the dogs usually first in line to hump Trump's leg (Gov. Abbot) just issued a mask order. I applaud your optimism but IMO when Joe (or Josie) Tex steps into the voting booth in November, they'll still vote GOP regardless of the administration's mishandling of Coronavirus and of the economic mess because of guns and God.

3rd July 2020, 08:35 AM	#168
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 93,715	Originally Posted by Craig4 I think President Dumb **** just lost Texas. One of the dogs usually first in line to hump Trump's leg (Gov. Abbot) just issued a mask order. What on earth are you going on about, Trump was always telling people to wear masks, even before they'd even heard about the virus!!??
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

3rd July 2020, 08:36 AM	#169
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10,921	Originally Posted by Meadmaker I wonder how people think viruses weaken. They don't get old and tired. They are little bits of protein that reproduce, making copies of themselves. How would a virus "weaken"? I guess it would have to mutate to a form that was just as contagious, less dangerous, but similar enough to the original that antibodies against the less dangerous form also protected against the original. Does that ever happen? What's this about "weakening"? IIRC less dangerous strains usually have a small evolutionary advantage and eventually outcompete the more dangerous ones. There is no evidence of this happening yet with COVID-19 so far as I know.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

3rd July 2020, 09:02 AM	#170
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 22,763	Originally Posted by lomiller There was a sudden shift in talking points from Republicans all across the country towards mandatory mask use. Clearly this is part of an organized strategy. I don't expect it will be long before these people are all claiming Republicans were promoting mask use all along and it was the Democrats holding things up. Agents of Goldstein were responsible for telling people not to wear masks.

3rd July 2020, 09:05 AM	#171
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 16,029	Originally Posted by Darat What on earth are you going on about, Trump was always telling people to wear masks, even before they'd even heard about the virus!!?? It was the Obama administration that prevented people from wearing masks. Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

3rd July 2020, 09:16 AM	#172
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 25,889	Originally Posted by Meadmaker I wonder how people think viruses weaken. They don't get old and tired. They are little bits of protein that reproduce, making copies of themselves. How would a virus "weaken"? I guess it would have to mutate to a form that was just as contagious, less dangerous, but similar enough to the original that antibodies against the less dangerous form also protected against the original. Does that ever happen? What's this about "weakening"? Originally Posted by lomiller IIRC less dangerous strains usually have a small evolutionary advantage and eventually outcompete the more dangerous ones. There is no evidence of this happening yet with COVID-19 so far as I know. This! That pretty well describes the process. But you do know that Republicans don't believe in evolution.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

3rd July 2020, 09:36 AM	#173
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 17,468	Originally Posted by lomiller IIRC less dangerous strains usually have a small evolutionary advantage and eventually outcompete the more dangerous ones. There is no evidence of this happening yet with COVID-19 so far as I know. It depends on the nature of the virus and it’s modes of transmission. The selection is for what maximizes viral spread. For a particular type of virus that may be selection for a less rapidly lethal form of disease so that the infected host is up and about spreading the virus around. This was observed for a myxomatosis virus and rabbits in Australia. But for a different type of virus and/or a different environment a rapidly lethal disease that produces a large burst of viruses in a short time may spread the virus better. I imagine a less rapidly lethal virus is selected among sparsely populated hosts for e.g.

3rd July 2020, 09:52 AM	#174
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 48,259	Originally Posted by lomiller There was a sudden shift in talking points from Republicans all across the country towards mandatory mask use. Clearly this is part of an organized strategy. I don't expect it will be long before these people are all claiming Republicans were promoting mask use all along and it was the Democrats holding things up. True, but that is what you can expect from politicans in general.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

3rd July 2020, 12:20 PM	#175
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 82,981	Originally Posted by Mader Levap It can happen, but not in way these morons think. There is strong evolutionary pressure to make virus less harmful. Not less infectious, mind you. So pretty much as you guessed. .... Originally Posted by Giordano It depends on the nature of the virus and it’s modes of transmission. The selection is for what maximizes viral spread. For a particular type of virus that may be selection for a less rapidly lethal form of disease so that the infected host is up and about spreading the virus around. This was observed for a myxomatosis virus and rabbits in Australia. But for a different type of virus and/or a different environment a rapidly lethal disease that produces a large burst of viruses in a short time may spread the virus better. I imagine a less rapidly lethal virus is selected among sparsely populated hosts for e.g. No sure how "sparsely populated" affects a pathogen's transmission. I would think absent a nearby host to infect would help the virus die out. Giordano is right though, there are multiple selection factors. Take the MRSA 300 strain (bacteria but still a good example), it became the dominant strain and spread rapidly worldwide. It was the result of a mutation that allowed the Panton–Valentine leukocidin toxin to form. The bacteria became more virulent, not less yet that strain spread. Originally Posted by Segnosaur It was the Obama administration that prevented people from wearing masks.... Trump is claiming the N95 masks were depleted under Obama for the 2009 flu and not replaced. He's oblivious to the last 3.5 years when he could have replaced the stock.
	__________________ ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is. Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

3rd July 2020, 12:47 PM	#176
Delphic Oracle Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 4,936	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Trump is claiming the N95 masks were depleted under Obama for the 2009 flu and not replaced. He's oblivious to the last 3.5 years when he could have replaced the stock. Also the Republican-controlled Congress that never allocated funds to replenish those supplies during Obama's terms.

3rd July 2020, 01:10 PM	#177
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 25,889	This sign on an Arizona vintage store telling patrons they must wear masks is amusing. "If you choose not to wear a mask, we respectfully ask that you postpone your visit,” “We will be happy to debate the efficacy of masks with you when this is all over and you come in to sell your dead grandmother's clothes."
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 3rd July 2020 at 01:23 PM.

3rd July 2020, 02:51 PM	#178
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 15,154	The Trump Administration's Coronavirus strategy has been complete, disastrous, cluster-****. It defies belief that a US Government effort can be so incompetent, but the graph doesn't lie. Europe has closed its borders to people from the USA or transiting through the USA... and with good reason.
	__________________ "Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass. If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! ! Last edited by smartcooky; 3rd July 2020 at 02:53 PM.

3rd July 2020, 06:07 PM	#179
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,515	Originally Posted by lomiller IIRC less dangerous strains usually have a small evolutionary advantage and eventually outcompete the more dangerous ones. There is no evidence of this happening yet with COVID-19 so far as I know. Regarding this, the COVID19 virus SARS-CoV-2 itself can be understood as a less virulent and acute cousin of the original SARS virus and MERS virus, so I think we're seeing what a moderate acute respiratory disease can do compared to its more dangerous relatives.

3rd July 2020, 08:26 PM	#180
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 14,951	Kimberly Guilfoyle has tested positive. DJTJ is in isolation. I'm all broken up over this.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot. My authority is total - Trump

4th July 2020, 05:46 AM	#181
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 16,029	Originally Posted by varwoche Kimberly Guilfoyle has tested positive. DJTJ is in isolation. I'm all broken up over this. Sadly, Trump Jr tested negative but he is in isolation as a precaution. And unfortunately she had not had contact with stubby Mcbonespurs for a while. Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

4th July 2020, 05:20 PM	#182
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 22,779	The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2 I know that it’s tone trolling or whatever, and I promise to only say it this one time. Can we please not wish that anyone, anywhere gets a potentially deadly virus? If nothing else, they aid on the spread that may get someone that you don’t want to get sick.

4th July 2020, 05:32 PM	#183
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 2,353	Originally Posted by carlitos I know that it’s tone trolling or whatever, and I promise to only say it this one time. Can we please not wish that anyone, anywhere gets a potentially deadly virus? If nothing else, they aid on the spread that may get someone that you don’t want to get sick. I think that's a good idea.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

4th July 2020, 05:51 PM	#184
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,257	Originally Posted by carlitos I know that it’s tone trolling or whatever, and I promise to only say it this one time. Can we please not wish that anyone, anywhere gets a potentially deadly virus? If nothing else, they aid on the spread that may get someone that you don’t want to get sick. Nope, sorry, can't do that. These people have made it clear they are either unable or unwilling to learn from the misfortune of others, and start acting as needed to fix this mess. At this point, a full-force bitch-slap from reality is the only thing that could possibly make them open their ******* eyes. These people went out of their way to become the leaders of the United States, and when they were finally called on to actually lead, they ****** off and didn't even try. They need to have their folly rubbed in their faces, and getting sick with COVID is just about the only way to actually do that.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

4th July 2020, 07:16 PM	#186
Resume Troublesome Passenger Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 16,996	Originally Posted by newyorkguy NBC News and other sources are reporting the trump White House will be rolling out a new message for Americans next week about coronavirus. Basically it sounds like, don't worry so much. Oh look, it's the "We ain't doin' jack ****" plan. What a leader!
	__________________ He must be removed. George Will on President Donald J. Trump. June 1, 2020

4th July 2020, 11:10 PM	#189
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 22,763	From an NYT article today: Quote: Like New York City in March, the Houston hospitals are experiencing a steep rise in caseloads that is filling their beds, stretching their staffing, creating a backlog in testing and limiting the availability of other medical services. Attempts to buy more supplies — including certain protective gear, vital-sign monitors and testing components — are frustrated by weeks of delays, according to hospital leaders. How disgusting is this? No other nation has experience this kind of resurgence. Even more unforgivable, Donald Trump imposed his travel ban at the end of January, so, obviously, he knew this coronavirus thing was going to be a big deal. Five months later, hospitals are scrambling for PPE. Are we great again yet?

4th July 2020, 11:27 PM	#190
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 82,981	Originally Posted by Meadmaker From an NYT article today: How disgusting is this? No other nation has experience this kind of resurgence. Even more unforgivable, Donald Trump imposed his travel ban at the end of January, so, obviously, he knew this coronavirus thing was going to be a big deal. Five months later, hospitals are scrambling for PPE. Are we great again yet? Trump and his followers think they can just ignore it. People only getting mild cases, It was only a matter of time, a couple weeks, the case numbers rise, the hospitals begin to fill up, the increase in the death rate follows. They're actually claiming since the death rate hasn't risen, all is well. Another week and they'll have to change the talking points memos. Good luck with that.
	__________________ ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is. Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

4th July 2020, 11:53 PM	#191
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 6,733	Originally Posted by Resume Oh look, it's the "We ain't doin' jack **" plan. What a leader! A.K.A. the plan that Trump's been strongly favoring all along. Originally Posted by Meadmaker** From an NYT article today: How disgusting is this? No other nation has experience this kind of resurgence. Even more unforgivable, Donald Trump imposed his travel ban at the end of January, so, obviously, he knew this coronavirus thing was going to be a big deal. Five months later, hospitals are scrambling for PPE. Are we great again yet? ...If Trump was normal in the head, that "obviously" might follow. Trump isn't. Trump almost certainly did it as just another "Look at how tough I am on China" thing, even though it was weak as crap, given that the major airlines had already stopped flights. Trump might have been trying to wish it away with the power of positive thinking, of course?
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

5th July 2020, 03:55 AM	#193
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 15,154	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Trump and his followers think they can just ignore it. People only getting mild cases, It was only a matter of time, a couple weeks, the case numbers rise, the hospitals begin to fill up, the increase in the death rate follows. They're actually claiming since the death rate hasn't risen, all is well. Another week and they'll have to change the talking points memos. Good luck with that. Our government didn't take us completely off restrictions until we had zero new cases for over two weeks (it was actually 18 days). Since then, we have had zero new cases in the general community. The few isolated new cases we have are all returning New Zealanders who presented with the disease during managed isolation or quarantine. The result is for a population for 5 million, a total of just over 1500 cases, and 22 deaths. This is what it takes to beat this thing. - The government listening to the scientists and following their instructions to the letter. - Following your government's instructions. - Working together with the other members of your community.
	__________________ "Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass. If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! ! Last edited by smartcooky; 5th July 2020 at 03:56 AM.

5th July 2020, 03:56 AM	#194
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 9,749	Originally Posted by Aridas ...If Trump was normal in the head, that "obviously" might follow. Trump isn't. Trump almost certainly did it as just another "Look at how tough I am on China" thing, even though it was weak as crap, given that the major airlines had already stopped flights. Also he had to do something so that his little supporters could sit there and claim "he did more against the virus than anyone else in the world!".
	__________________ "He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig

5th July 2020, 06:26 AM	#196
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 22,763	Originally Posted by newyorkguy Assessing how your state is doing based on total cases can be misleading, can't it? Agreed. I'm noting that North Carolina is growing faster than Michigan, but the rise in Michigan is of great concern. Although there has been organized resistance here in Michigan, that's just some high profile yahoos. I think that in general we are doing pretty good, and our governor deserves a lot of the credit for that. Sure the measures were not universally acclaimed, but we locked down quick and stayed locked down, and we went from number 2 in the country down to, 11 or 12. Like almost everywhere, we have an uptick, but not as bad as those states which ignored the threat and opened up pretty far. I find the uptick disturbing, and we don't have nearly enough mask use compliance for my tastes, but we aren't doing too bad. If you go into a store, most people are masked. We'll see. There's plenty of idiocy here in Michigan, but the results will tell the tale.

5th July 2020, 10:34 AM	#198
Mader Levap Muse Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 982	Ah, murica. Where using mask is political issue, not medical advice.
Mader Levap Muse Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 982	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Trump is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

5th July 2020, 11:52 AM	#199
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 12,575	Originally Posted by Mader Levap Ah, murica. Where using mask is political issue, not medical advice. If the Democrats are for it, it must be bad for you.
	__________________ ETTD Everything Trump Touches Dies

5th July 2020, 12:50 PM	#200
Resume Troublesome Passenger Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 16,996	Originally Posted by Commander Inept 99% of coronavirius cases are totally harmless. No, they're not.
	__________________ He must be removed. George Will on President Donald J. Trump. June 1, 2020