Continuation The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2

[The Don]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Anybody getting tired of winning yet?


The United States lumped in with Brazil and India. Ironically, trump has expressed admiration for the leaders of both nations, Bolsonaro and Modi. Bolsonaro is himself infected.

You can add the UK to that list of countries with right wing populist leaders who have failed to take Coronavirus seriously and who have caused tens of thousands of needless deaths in the process.

[dann]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Meanwhile Melbourne presents and example of open schools. Sorry if this is a duplicate link. I see a reference to "Mooslims" upthread.

102 COVID cases, 2,300 close contacts: Principal of Melbourne school in lockdown breaks silenceNot sure how many of those are high school kids.

If you need other international examples:
Denmark reopened schools after the lockdown had managed to hammer down the contagion, but at a local flare up recently, which started with two minkfarms and a nursing home, the infection immediately spread to three schools:

Quote:

Både Bagterpskolen, Lundergårdskolen og Højene Skole i Hjørring har indenfor de seneste par uger haft tilfælde af corona. Alle tre skoler melder nu, at de ikke har haft yderligere smittetilfælde.
Ikke flere smittede på Hjørring-skoler: - Det går rigtig fint (TV2nord.dk, June 24, 2020)

Translation:
The Bagterp School, the Lundergård School as well as the Højene School in Hjørring all had cases of corona in recent weeks. The three schools now report that they have had no new cases.
No more active cases at schools in Hjørring: - It's going really well

I haven't heard about anybody, teachers or students, from the three schools getting seriously ill. I assume that the cases were discovered because they ramped up testing when the local flare up started. In Sweden, where hardly anybody was tested for the first couple of months unless they were hospitalized, there weren't many reports about outbreaks at schools - unless people got ill and died.

[Aridas]

‘STOP GETTING TESTED’: GOP lawmaker gives Ohio residents dangerous COVID-19 advice

Quote:

An Ohio lawmaker is using conspiracy theories to justify giving potentially dangerous advice to his constituents. “Are you tired of living in a dictatorship yet,” GOP Rep. Nino Vitale asked Tuesday in a Facebook post. “This is what happens when people go crazy and get tested. STOP GETTING TESTED!”

Vitale went on to claim COVID-19 testing is “giving the government an excuse to claim something is happening that is not happening at the magnitude they say it is happening. Have you noticed they never talk about deaths anymore, just cases,” he said. “And they never talk about recoveries. They just keep adding to numbers they have been feeding us from over 3 months ago!”

I admit to having experienced a bit of a violent urge in response to Vitale's message.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Resume

No, they're not.

He may be using upper values... but if indeed the actual number of cases is 10 times the reported one, presumably because of lack of symptoms or mild ones, and 85% of reported cases have mild symptoms, that's pretty close to 99%.

[Aber]

Originally Posted by The Don

You can add the UK to that list of countries with right wing populist leaders who have failed to take Coronavirus seriously and who have caused tens of thousands of needless deaths in the process.

Given that 3 of the top 10 areas with highest infection rates are in Wales, where Health is a devolved matter...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...covid-19-cases

[The Don]

It's very early days but sadly it looks like the US death rate is starting to climb again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Aber

Given that 3 of the top 10 areas with highest infection rates are in Wales, where Health is a devolved matter...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...covid-19-cases

...and two of those were among the earliest areas to be hit before the UK government even tried to put into place any kind of testing, tracking or lockdown.

Then again, even though the infection rates were very high, the death rates were proportionally lower so perhaps the devolved Welsh NHS did a good job.

[dann]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Meanwhile Melbourne presents and example of open schools. Sorry if this is a duplicate link. I see a reference to "Mooslims" upthread.

102 COVID cases, 2,300 close contacts: Principal of Melbourne school in lockdown breaks silenceNot sure how many of those are high school kids.

Why Trump can't point to Denmark to justify reopening schools:

Quote:

Denmark was one of the first European countries to reopen schools back in April, but it was also one of the first to lock down its society. Among the safety measures in place for students: Smaller class sizes, mandatory hand-washing, regular sanitizing, staying outdoors as much as possible and social distancing.
In sharp contrast to Denmark, the issue of reopening schools has become politicized in the US -- not unlike masks. "We really spent time putting together the science behind this and we believe it's the right call. But now because the President has made it into a political issue, it likely won't happen," one senior CDC official told CNN, referring to the enforcement of existing guidelines.
CNN/Sanjay Gupta Newsletter

[Tolls]

Originally Posted by The Don

It's very early days but sadly it looks like the US death rate is starting to climb again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

If you look at the two graphs (the cases one and the deaths one) you can see pretty much a 2-3 week lag. As has been said all along.

So I don't expect to see that improve in the near future.

[Resume]

Originally Posted by Belz...

He may be using upper values... but if indeed the actual number of cases is 10 times the reported one, presumably because of lack of symptoms or mild ones, and 85% of reported cases have mild symptoms, that's pretty close to 99%.

His claim was that 99% of cases are harmless, but that's not the case. We're seeing lung and brain damage, even strokes in mild cases. He is irresponsibly downplaying the effects of the virus.

Quote:

Newly described case reports add to growing evidence that COVID-19 infections can result in severe, long-lasting neurological complications—including inflammation, psychosis, delirium, nerve damage, and strokes—even among patients experiencing mild cases of the virus with few other symptoms. In some instances, the new study claims, these neurological effects were the first manifestation of the disease.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Belz...

He may be using upper values... but if indeed the actual number of cases is 10 times the reported one, presumably because of lack of symptoms or mild ones, and 85% of reported cases have mild symptoms, that's pretty close to 99%.

You know he's not doing that kind of arithmetic. He's claiming any outcome short of death is "totally harmless." Hospitalization, ventilators, long-term heart, lung and brain damage don't matter in his world.

And even "mild" cases are proving to have long-term consequences.
https://journaltimes.com/lifestyles/...cdf75cb3c.html

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by Aridas

‘STOP GETTING TESTED’: GOP lawmaker gives Ohio residents dangerous COVID-19 advice

Quote:

An Ohio lawmaker is using conspiracy theories to justify giving potentially dangerous advice to his constituents. “Are you tired of living in a dictatorship yet,” GOP Rep. Nino Vitale asked Tuesday in a Facebook post. “This is what happens when people go crazy and get tested. STOP GETTING TESTED!”

Vitale went on to claim COVID-19 testing is “giving the government an excuse to claim something is happening that is not happening at the magnitude they say it is happening. Have you noticed they never talk about deaths anymore, just cases,” he said. “And they never talk about recoveries. They just keep adding to numbers they have been feeding us from over 3 months ago!”

I admit to having experienced a bit of a violent urge in response to Vitale's message.

Talking about deaths, about 2000 in the last two days. Levels not seen since early June.

[Captain_Swoop]

"Wearing a mask during a pandemic is an IQ test, and you are failing!"

'InRangeTV one of my' favourite shooting channel hits it on the head.

Karl departs from the usual content to explain why people should be wearing masks.

He starts it as though it is going to be a general 'personal protection' video dealing with first aid kits and 'concealed carry' and pivots it on to the idiots that have been attacking him in the comments of earlier videos where he has worn a mask.

PPE in the year 2020

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

[Resume]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

"Wearing a mask during a pandemic is an IQ test, and you are failing!"

'InRangeTV one of my' favourite shooting channel hits it on the head.

Karl departs from the usual content to explain why people should be wearing masks.

He starts it as though it is going to be a general 'personal protection' video dealing with first aid kits and 'concealed carry' and pivots it on to the idiots that have been attacking him in the comments of earlier videos where he has worn a mask.

PPE in the year 2020

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

"If everyone wore these there's a good chance that the percentages (infection rate) would drop into very small numbers . . ."

If only Trump would utter these simple words.

[dann]

Will this change the way people look at the pandemic? Or will it only affect the people who are denied care and their relatives who have to watch them die?

Quote:

For the first time in its history, indeed for the first time in any state anywhere at any point in American medical history, the Arizona Department of Health Services activated its crisis standards for hospitals, giving them more flexibility (and less liability) to triage the overwhelming number of new COVID-19 patients and ration care, presumably by focusing on those who could use it most and declining to treat the grimmer cases.
(...)
In Texas, an ICU doctor at San Antonio Methodist told CNN, in what became a heartbreakingly viral interview, that he had received calls for ten patients to be transferred to his unit, but only had space for three.
(...)
In Florida, 54 hospitals in 25 counties report they are already at capacity, with no ICU beds available at all; in 30 other hospitals, intensive care units were already 90 percent full or more.
America Is Refusing to Learn How to Fight the Coronavirus (N.Y.Mag, July 9, 2020)

[dann]

Originally Posted by Resume

"If everyone wore these there's a good chance that the percentages (infection rate) would drop into very small numbers . . ."

If only Trump would utter these simple words.

You would have to consider how to make it interesting to him.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Resume

His claim was that 99% of cases are harmless, but that's not the case. We're seeing lung and brain damage, even strokes in mild cases.

Unless you can establish the proportion of patients who develop there troubles you cannot say that the more liberal numbers are wrong, though.

Quote:

He is irresponsibly downplaying the effects of the virus.

Well he's an idiot. What do you expect?

[acbytesla]

Is it just me who thought this?

That the Coronavirus for even a moderately competent administration and President would have easily locked up reelection in a landslide?

Crises provide opportunities to unite a country and at least appear as a leader.

But this is where Trump is deficient. He only knows how to be divisive.

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Is it just me who thought this?

That the Coronavirus for even a moderately competent administration and President would have easily locked up reelection in a landslide?

Crises provide opportunities to unite a country and at least appear as a leader.

But this is where Trump is deficient. He only knows how to be divisive.

Trump has never been a leader in his life. He's only ever been a boss, and a mediocre one at that.
There was a comic posted in one of the other threads.

Panel 1: Leader
A group of people pulling a cart. The leader is in the front, directing them as he helps them pull.

Panel 2: Boss
A group of people pulling a cart. The boss is sitting on the cart, giving orders.

Panel 3: Trump
A group of people pulling a cart. Trump is behind the cart, pulling in the opposite direction.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Michael Cohen ordered back to jail after photographed eating at restaurant. He had successfully argued for his sentence to be changed to home detention to avoid Covid in jail, but got it yanked for violating the conditions. Womp womp.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mich...release-2020-7

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by Armitage72

Trump has never been a leader in his life. He's only ever been a boss, and a mediocre one at that.
There was a comic posted in one of the other threads.

Panel 1: Leader
A group of people pulling a cart. The leader is in the front, directing them as he helps them pull.

Panel 2: Boss
A group of people pulling a cart. The boss is sitting on the cart, giving orders.

Panel 3: Trump
A group of people pulling a cart. Trump is behind the cart, pulling in the opposite direction.

True. But in this case, it would have meant listening to experts and imploring the people to work together. Showing compassion even if he had none. Trump didn't just mangle this from a governing perspective, he botched it from a political perspective.

What it took was letting the scientists take the lead. Instead as always Trump thinks he is smarter than the real experts. The problem for Trump now is he can't change this narrative. People are dying and he's directly responsible.

[Resume]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Unless you can establish the proportion of patients who develop there troubles you cannot say that the more liberal numbers are wrong, though.

I can most certainly say the the phony pulled-from-his-ass 99 percent is complete ******** as we are only just discovering disturbing new health problems resulting from only mild cases of this virus.

Quote:

Well he's an idiot. What do you expect?

Even idiots can be leaders; Trump is so much worse than an idiot.

[carlitos]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Michael Cohen ordered back to jail after photographed eating at restaurant. He had successfully argued for his sentence to be changed to home detention to avoid Covid in jail, but got it yanked for violating the conditions. Womp womp.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mich...release-2020-7

[Resume]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Michael Cohen ordered back to jail after photographed eating at restaurant. He had successfully argued for his sentence to be changed to home detention to avoid Covid in jail, but got it yanked for violating the conditions. Womp womp.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mich...release-2020-7

What a dope.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Michael Cohen ordered back to jail after photographed eating at restaurant. He had successfully argued for his sentence to be changed to home detention to avoid Covid in jail, but got it yanked for violating the conditions. Womp womp.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mich...release-2020-7

He's been a dumb thug all his life. Why would anybody think he's changed?

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Is it just me who thought this?

That the Coronavirus for even a moderately competent administration and President would have easily locked up reelection in a landslide?

Crises provide opportunities to unite a country and at least appear as a leader.

But this is where Trump is deficient. He only knows how to be divisive.

You mean how deeply unpopular leaders like Scott Morrison (Australia) and Justin Trudeau have gone from well negative to overwhelmingly positive public perception?
______________________________

Meanwhile, after having enabled the president and denied the crisis, disgusting ***** like McConnell are going to avoid the RNC in fear of infection.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mitch...b67a80bc04aedd

They should be forced to attend and greet every attendee at the door.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

You mean how deeply unpopular leaders like Scott Morrison (Australia) and Justin Trudeau have gone from well negative to overwhelmingly positive public perception?
______________________________

Meanwhile, after having enabled the president and denied the crisis, disgusting ***** like McConnell are going to avoid the RNC in fear of infection.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mitch...b67a80bc04aedd

They should be forced to attend and greet every attendee at the door.

They are in survival mode. While they won't come out and attack him, they don't want to be associated with him either.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

They are in survival mode. While they won't come out and attack him, they don't want to be associated with him either.

Rats leaving a sinking ship? Let's hope.

I thought that in October of 2016, though. Eleven incumbent Republican senators, I can't remember which ones, withdrew their support from him publicly. I thought he could not possibly win with so many in his own party willing to denounce him like that.

So, I lost a lot of confidence about my prognostication abilities. Take nothing for granted, Joe. Especially Wisconsin.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Bob001

You know he's not doing that kind of arithmetic. He's claiming any outcome short of death is "totally harmless." Hospitalization, ventilators, long-term heart, lung and brain damage don't matter in his world.

And even "mild" cases are proving to have long-term consequences.
https://journaltimes.com/lifestyles/...cdf75cb3c.html

It's not a matter of any kind of arithmetic.

His pathologic personality disorder leaves him in a fantasy world until the bubble bursts then he moves on to the next fantasy. Bankruptcy becomes a great business deal. No US banks willing to loan the Trumps any more money becomes a great and profitable relationship with the Russian oligarchs who want to invest in Trump golf resorts. The fact there's a little money laundering on the side is just the art of the deal.

You can trace that path throughout Trump's entire life.

The piper is coming for his due. Are we passing peak Trump? Don't know but Trump is passing peak Trump. He's in the public eye and I'm not talking about People Magazine or whoever "Baron", Trump's faux publicist was calling with Trump's sexual conquests.

Trump's base or not, there are GOP supporters who for the first time are not going to vote for Trump. There are a few states where Trump might pull off some EC points. Maybe there are some diehard Republicans willing to rig the election by suppressing votes.

Maybe there are a few blacks who will stay home again, disillusioned with the whole political system.

But I'm not buying in to all the naysayers who think we're going to see a repeat of 2016. We are 4 months from the election. Vaccine or no vaccine, it will not come soon enough. All of Trump's fair weather friends are not going to ride along on the fantasy unicorn when they see the hospitals spilling over their capacity.

Trump promised them 99% of people would be fine. He imagined in his fantasy the economy simply going back to business as usual. It was a ******* fantasy. That just can't be sustained.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

...

But this is where Trump is deficient. He only knows how to be divisive.

He's a one trick pony so to speak. He's trying his one trick and it won't work here.

I'm glad he hasn't failed by using a nuke because he has no concept of diplomacy.

But I'm terribly sad over the thousands of deaths and especially the needless healthcare worker deaths because we have an incompetent POTUS during a national crisis.

Trump's new marketing strategy is that he's a wartime POTUS and this is a China virus.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I'm glad he hasn't failed by using a nuke...

...yet.

[Minoosh]

Saw a great mask yesterday. It said VOTE! on a rainbow background.

I'll ask the lady if it's commercially available. She said her sister sent it.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Saw a great mask yesterday. It said VOTE! on a rainbow background.

I'll ask the lady if it's commercially available. She said her sister sent it.

I would be tempted to get a Vote mask, but I would go with a red/white/blue flag or patriotic theme, myself.

It makes a wonderful statement. It's a case where, normally, some sort of "vote" button is just a statement of patriotism, saying that voting is a good, all-American thing to do. In this case, though, putting it on a mask would be a political statement all by itself, yet those who disagree with you might feel frustrated that they couldn't exactly call you on it.

[Armitage72]

How do you spell "Schadenfreude"? M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I.

More than two dozen Mississippi lawmakers have tested positive for coronavirus after refusing to wear masks.

Quote:

If you've been in contact with your state lawmaker in Mississippi, you may want to get a coronavirus test.
About one in six state lawmakers have tested positive for the coronavirus, according to Dr. Thomas Dobbs of the Mississippi Health Department.
For weeks, politicians flouted mask recommendations inside the state Capitol. Twenty-six state legislators have now tested positive for Covid-19, including Lt. Gov. Delbert Hosemann and State House Speaker Philip Gunn. Neither man wore a mask at a bill signing at the governor's mansion last week.

[newyorkguy]

It's unbelievable that these Mississippi lawmakers not only couldn't effectively combat the spread of Covid-19 in their state, they couldn't even protect themselves.

Quote:

"We could have done more to prevent this," State Rep. Robert Johnson III, the Democratic leader of the state's House of Representatives, said in a statement to CNN. "It seems it was all about some erroneous, dangerously promoted political stance. It's disgusting. Our governor refuses to order statewide mask requirements and our leadership decided not to require it at the Capitol."

Without masks, it may not come as a shock that the virus spread so efficiently within the legislature. On the floor, desks are packed tightly together, and members gather closely to communicate with their colleagues. CNN Report

Coronavirus began increasing dramatically in Mississippi about three weeks ago.

[Minoosh]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I would be tempted to get a Vote mask, but I would go with a red/white/blue flag or patriotic theme, myself.

The flag motif paled for me somewhat through overuse, though I wanted to find a patch to embroider on my jeans after 9/11.

Every once in a while I pretend I am just coming back to Earth after having been away for several years, and I ask myself, what would surprise me? Early 2000s it was like - what, are we in a war? So many flags! (Often made in China).

Anyway I'd like a "vote" mask no matter the color scheme. That's patriotic enough for me.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Minoosh

The flag motif paled for me somewhat through overuse, though I wanted to find a patch to embroider on my jeans after 9/11.

Every once in a while I pretend I am just coming back to Earth after having been away for several years, and I ask myself, what would surprise me? Early 2000s it was like - what, are we in a war? So many flags! (Often made in China).

Anyway I'd like a "vote" mask no matter the color scheme. That's patriotic enough for me.

I checked on Amazon. There were several vote masks. I didn't see rainbows and vote together. I did see stars and stripes themes with vote.

[Aridas]

To do a bit of a cross-over from the science COVID-thread...

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

And are we sure about this "kids aren't spreading it, open the schools" assertion?

I think that we can safely be pretty sure about why assertions like that are being pushed as hard as they are and by who. Employer/Employee power dynamics - which matter quite a lot to, for example, the GOP's main donors, who tend to be a lot of fairly rich and powerful people.

To borrow from a couple opinion pieces...

Quote:

Take this insane GOP push to “fully reopen” schools, for example. Neither Trump nor his Republican enablers much care about the lives of American schoolchildren. American schoolchildren aren’t making them any money. What they care about is getting American parents back into the workplace, and schools that can’t open are an obstacle to that goal, Bouie explains.

Quote:

And so schools have to open because parents have to work, and parents have to work because the president opposes any additional aid to American families, who might stay home and avoid the virus if they had the choice. This would raise the unemployment rate — possibly jeopardizing Mr. Trump’s chances for re-election — and redistribute power from employers to workers, while also strengthening the case for a robust and generous social safety net.

The very, very wealthy who pull the strings controlling the motions of nearly every Republican in elected office today are seeing the potential of staggering, permanent capital losses as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. The only way they stem those losses is by getting Americans back to work for their businesses. They don’t want to talk about a Universal Living Wage; they don’t want to talk about publicly subsidized health care or child care; they don’t want to acknowledge the fact that most of the jobs permanently lost to this pandemic will be performed by robots or otherwise automated within 10 years. They just want people back to work. Now.

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Every once in a while I pretend I am just coming back to Earth after having been away for several years, and I ask myself, what would surprise me? Early 2000s it was like - what, are we in a war? So many flags! (Often made in China).

The Colorado Sun runs a comic called "What'd I Miss?", about a woman who wakes up from a 30 year coma and learns about her new world with the help of her African-American neighbor.

[newyorkguy]

On Friday Texas Gov. Greg Abbott warned Texans that if people continue to ignore his statewide mandate that makes wearing a face mask mandatory, the next step could be locking the state down again. NBC News reported, "His plea to Texans comes as nearly 80 Texas counties have opted out of the order , while others are refusing to enforce it." New cases, hospitalizations and deaths are at all-time highs in the Lone Star State.

Quote:

“Things will get worse, and let me explain why,” Abbott told KLBK TV in Lubbock. “The deaths that we’re seeing announced today and yesterday — which are now over 100 — those are people who likely contracted COVID-19 in late May. The worst is yet to come as we work our way through that massive increase in people testing positive.” Texans will also likely see an increase in cases next week, Abbott said, and people abiding by his face mask requirement might be the only thing standing between businesses remaining open and another shutdown. NBC News link

New cases dipped slightly on Friday -- the day Gov. Abbott spoke on three different Texas TV stations -- but rose Saturday to a new one day high of 10,351 cases.