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#281 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,862
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In the meantime Trump tells people open the schools or else and DeVos denies the CDC guidelines are what they are.
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#282 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 30,654
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__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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#283 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 7,345
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__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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#284 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 12,378
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#285 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 12,378
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I'm sometimes amazed at what turns up on Etsy.
https://www.etsy.com/search?q=face%20mask%20vote |
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#286 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,468
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#287 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,862
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#288 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 31,690
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__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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#289 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 24,813
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In the "better late than never" category, kudos to him for speaking the truth, despite it being politically unpopular.
I would sure like to see the pro-mask message being sent from all leaders, starting at the top. And why the hell can I not buy an 95 mask at the local hardware store? They sold out in February. They're still sold out. Is the industrial might of the United States so feeble that it was impossible to ramp up production? WTF? Are we great again yet? |
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#290 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,430
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The problem with Gov. Greg Abbott is, he was one of the leading advocates in reopening Texas quickly. As you can see by the chart below, from April into May cases in Texas were relatively low and had plateaued. Abbott took that to mean the crisis was over and it was time to get back to business. But he was warned at the time by public health officials -- including his own state officials -- that the virus did not transmit all across the United States at the same time, that the peak in Texas might still be some weeks off. Abbott ignored that. He pushed to reopen as quickly as possible, including bars. Now even Abbott concedes that was a mistake. After reopening, local officials complained Abbott would not back them up -- that he undermined them -- when they tried to enforce the few restrictions Abbott had left in place. One law enforcement official complained publicly that the governor had played politics with the pandemic "straight through."
The chart below shows how cases have spiraled. Deaths have increased too. Gov. Abbott's actions have directly resulted in people being infected and killed by the virus in numbers that could have been avoided. He bears responsibility for a lot of the sickness and death, but I'm sure he won't take responsibility. Eighty Texas counties are refusing to honor Abbott's order making face masks mandatory? Abbott helped create the political climate that makes that possible. I think he's done a terrible job. |
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#291 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 24,813
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#292 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,018
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#293 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 5,292
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My company redirects a lot of PPE to health work organizations at the regional distribution centers. Anything that slips by gets set aside and we find a local organization to donate it to. Only a few varieties of gloves and bulk packs of surgical masks make it to the shelf.
Most n95s are not appropriate for situations of going out in public where social distancing is not possible as they do not filter exhalation. They are for a healthy person going into a contaminated setting. I have a friend who was in TX during first wave disinfecting retirement dorms. Tests every morning and evening, geared up to the max. I feel awful for demolition crews, painters, mold treatment people, etc. right now. |
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#294 |
The Clarity Is Devastating
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 17,283
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I would imagine that most of the opt-out counties are regions that currently have relatively few active cases. If the pattern already played out in many other states holds true, their decision probably won't have much effect on the peak cases in the state, for which the largest population centers predominate. But what it will do is stretch out the plateau or the initial slow decline following the peak, as the "wave" propagates (with delays) through smaller cities and towns in the opt-out regions. Five weeks from now, when new cases in Houston and Dallas are significantly reduced, some of those counties will be reaching their own peaks, keeping the state totals high, just as it's time to start the school year. |
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A zømbie once bit my sister... |
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#295 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 24,813
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And that made sense, in March, but the fact that they are still sold out in July is a real failure at the top.
It's just disgusting. How do you stop a pandemic when you aren't taking the measures to stop virus transmission? If Trump wants the economy moving, couldn't he have subsidized mask production? Hire lots of workers to build and operate mask production machines. It's just dumb as hell. Meanwhile, I just got news that the robotics team I mentor won't be competing this year It seems the school district laid off science teachers due to budget cuts forced by the pandemic, and that included our coach. We can't control the pandemic, so we're cutting science education. That's the way to make America great again, for sure. There are volunteers who could do the robotics job, but the school district can't allow that for liability concerns. America....what a country. |
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#296 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,037
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In a free market economy, the market decides. It would seem that companies which make masks don't currently consider it worth their while to expand production because they cannot make money in the short-term or they don't see it as a long-term proposition.
Sure President Trump could have subsidised mask production but that's a few steps down the slippery slope to a command economy and communism. In any case, President Trump's Damascene conversion to masks only happened very recently. Before that he wouldn't have seen any reason to expand production because they weren't necessary. |
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#297 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 30,654
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Congratulations, Florida, on 15,300 cases in one day! On a Sunday! What are you going to do next?
We're reopening Disney World! Oh, and holding a Republican Convention. That ought to go well. |
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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#298 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,037
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#299 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,037
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My sister in law lives in Montana near the Glacier National Park. Initially they had effective distancing measures in place but because they had few cases - likely due to their relative isolation - those restrictions have been largely removed.
Roll on tourist season and the number of cases is starting to grow. The locals are blaming the tourists for bringing in infection but seem not to recognise that the reason why the tourists have been able to bring in the infection (if indeed this has been the transmission vector, those hospitalised have been local, not tourists so far) is because locals have allowed them to do so. I see the same thing playing out across the US. A slow wave of infection spreading across rural areas but instead of examining their own behaviour or rules, the rural populace will blame outsiders for bringing in the disease and not learn from the experience. ![]() |
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#300 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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The latter part is true but let's go with the lowest estimates:
Up to 90% of infectees are not reported or detected. If that's true, then it is most likely because of absence of symptoms or mild symptons. Of those known to be infected, up to 85%, from one source, have no symptoms or mild symptoms still. That's 98.5%, which rounds up nicely to 99%. I know Trump uses hyperbole, superlatives and shorthand for a lot of stuff, but, assuming those numbers are correct (they probably aren't), his estimate isn't off the mark. Look I hate the ****** too, but he's not _always_ wrong. Close, but not always. |
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#301 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,177
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__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen" |
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#302 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 15,371
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Chuck Woolery? Really? Maybe this is a vivid
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__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
My authority is total - Trump |
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#303 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 18,679
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We don't know what we we don't know about the long term health effects of this virus. Fauci said yesterday that he didn't know where Trump got his 99% percent "harmless" ********.
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#304 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,430
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California has decided to reimpose a shutdown because new cases of coronavirus are surging in the Golden State. Case numbers have been increasing since mid-June. Below are quotes from CBS News:
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#305 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 2,545
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__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
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#306 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,037
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#307 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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#308 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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#309 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,037
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As I understand it, the reason why people thought that warm sunny weather would slow down the spread of the virus was that, instead of being huddled together inside to avoid cold weather, people would be outside socially distanced .
There are a couple of flaws in that logic. Firstly, while somewhere like Wales has weather more conducive to being outside in summer, other places are too hot and sunny and people congregate inside in air-conditioned comfort. Secondly, people may be outside but they may not be social distancing. Instead they are meeting in large groups, consuming alcohol and behaving improperly. |
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#310 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,037
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#311 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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#312 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 24,813
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I think it's simpler than that. They thought it would go down in summer because colds and flu typically goes down in summer, and this disease has some similarity with those.
It was not foolish to be optimistic. It was foolish to base policy around the assumption. As the saying goes, "Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst." Unfortunately, the leader of the USA doesn't seem capable of preparing for anything. "Hope for the best. Ignore anything you don't like, or blame the Democrats, or whatever it takes as long as it doesn't involve actually taking responsibility." |
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#313 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,001
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This is just as much nonsense as when AT posted it, in the SMM&T thread on Covid-19. And yes, we also have no idea how the “99%” was derived.
For example: “if that’s true” ... well it’s not “it is most likely because” .. really bad logic, and wildly inconsistent with what is well-established IIRC, the results from detailed studies - e.g. Vò, Gangelt - clearly show just how nonsensical your imputed logic chain is. In the sense that opening a horse’s mouth and counting its teeth is more reliable than armchair pontificating. |
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#314 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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#315 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,001
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a) source(s)?
b) you linked numbers with flawed logic. And as Resume already noted, you have no evidence that Trump used any such estimates, or logic.
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Perhaps you may be referring to comments by the CDC head, at a recent press conference? If so, please re-read the official transcript ... (there are links, and more analyses, in the SMM&T thread). Yeah, this is not the SMM&T board, but it’s still the ISF. Nonsense still needs to be called out for what it is. |
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#316 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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Gee, I'd have to dig them up but they might be dated. I've already mentioned that.
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#317 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 18,679
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Yes, and what we do know is that Trump's claim that the COVID-19 virus is 99% harmless is pulled from his ass. As Fauci noted, that statement is "obviously not the case."
We do know that sometimes mildly symptomatic patients have health issues ranging from lung scarring to neurological issues, and even the asymptomatic can have lung problems akin to walking pneumonia. Some of these folks are walking around oblivious to these issues until they present and are confrirmed by health professionals. How many are there? We don't know, won't know for quite some time. We do know that these issues are not harmless as Trump claims, but resultant from contracting the virus, seemingly mildly or not at all. At first. Trump's 99% "harmless" claim is wildly irresponsible, unevidenced, and in Fauci's words, "not the case." |
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#318 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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#319 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 18,679
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#320 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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