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Old 22nd July 2020, 10:01 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Could someone PLEASE squash a_u_p's avatar for me? It's driving me buggy! I keep thinking I've got real ants (Monomorium minimum) on my screen again. Yes, again.
Install AdBlock Plus

then

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Select "Block Element" (window opens with element information)
Select "Add"

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manually add the filter
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Old 22nd July 2020, 10:02 AM   #122
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Here's one page of my very heavily used book of spells. It reminds me of Harry Potter's battered but highly notated potions book. I think I referred to it throughout my entire career.
(eta) Arrgh... I don't know why it rotated but it's such a hassle to fix it I'm just going to leave it. I don't get paid to do stuff like that any more.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 10:11 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by GodMark2 View Post
Install AdBlock Plus

then

Right-click AUP's avatar
Select "Block Element" (window opens with element information)
Select "Add"

Awesome!
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Old 22nd July 2020, 10:58 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Could someone PLEASE squash a_u_p's avatar for me? It's driving me buggy! I keep thinking I've got real ants (Monomorium minimum) on my screen again. Yes, again.
If you're using Firefox, you can set an option to have animated images stop and not loop after they get to the end of their sequence:
about:config > image.animation_mode > once
There's an extension for Google Chrome to do this: Animation Policy
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Old 22nd July 2020, 05:48 PM   #125
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OK. I've had my fun.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 08:55 PM   #126
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Anyone here remember using Novel SNet?

If so, are you still sane, and do you still have hair?
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Old 22nd July 2020, 11:25 PM   #127
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Google knows nothing about that. Must have died an early death and sunk into oblivion.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:38 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Google knows nothing about that. Must have died an early death and sunk into oblivion.

Really? That is surprising. It was a Network OS used with systems running the Motorola 68000 series microprocessor. I first encountered it when I was involved in installing a computer network in an Air Traffic Control system on a military base in the 1980s. AFAIK a number of those systems are still operational today.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:50 AM   #129
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It was better known as Novell Netware but even under that name I only have the vaguest memories.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 04:35 AM   #130
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Novell Netware I have heard of. My brother was an admin. Novell was crushed by Microsoft. It must have been a bad experience because he has only done PC admin since then.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 10:12 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
It was better known as Novell Netware but even under that name I only have the vaguest memories.
I lived though a transition from Netware to whatever the Microsoft replacement product was. The first difference noted was that you could logon to multiple workstations simultaneously with the same account. Netware required you to logoff one before you could logon to another. Great for security.

And please don't talk about Token Ring.
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Old 24th July 2020, 12:22 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
And please don't talk about Token Ring.
Vegemite jar lids have a plastic bit attached that forms a part of the seal. When opened, this bit breaks away from the lid and can be removed. In the same job where we had the rare earth magnet unformat.exe we also had one of these yellow plastic circles hanging on the wall. Occasionally someone visiting would ask what it was.

It was, of course, our token ring.
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Old 24th July 2020, 12:41 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I lived though a transition from Netware to whatever the Microsoft replacement product was. The first difference noted was that you could logon to multiple workstations simultaneously with the same account. Netware required you to logoff one before you could logon to another. Great for security.

And please don't talk about Token Ring.
Why not? It worked, usually. IBMs proprietary SDLC was very reliable.
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Old 24th July 2020, 12:47 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Why not? It worked, usually. IBMs proprietary SDLC was very reliable.
Back before broadband and fast data transfer, token ring was a good and reliable solution to the problem of packet collision that ethernet had, especially for smaller networks. Post about 2000, ethernet was more reliable because it worked too fast for packet collision to be much of a problem any more.
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Old 24th July 2020, 01:33 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I lived though a transition from Netware to whatever the Microsoft replacement product was. The first difference noted was that you could logon to multiple workstations simultaneously with the same account. Netware required you to logoff one before you could logon to another. Great for security.

And please don't talk about Token Ring.
Oh, when I first started at HP, that’s what we had in the office. The main problems were that since it was a software engineering lab, people would simply add nodes themselves, so it would get overloaded, and occasionally the wrong cables were used (IIRC, TV coax cables were physically compatible, but not to the same specification). Tracing the problems were a pain for the IT team. There was a length of TV coax cable stuck to the outside of the glass on the computer room with a label saying “this is not a lan cable”; one Christmas it was replaced by a length of tinsel.
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Old 24th July 2020, 02:28 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I lived though a transition from Netware to whatever the Microsoft replacement product was. The first difference noted was that you could logon to multiple workstations simultaneously with the same account. Netware required you to logoff one before you could logon to another. Great for security.

And please don't talk about Token Ring.
NT networking and the transitioning to built in networking for desktops - first in Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:30 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Why not? It worked, usually. IBMs proprietary SDLC was very reliable.
Oh yes it did work. But physically setting it up with fixed lengths of cables was a trial.
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:40 AM   #138
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But then again, don't get me started on DecNet.

I once had a very nice booklet of about 20 pages from DEC explaining why DecNet was superior to Token Ring. I'm not entirely sure I was convinced.
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:35 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
And please don't talk about Token Ring.
There's the Tolkien ring LAN: there's only One Ring, but it's really powerful.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:08 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
But then again, don't get me started on DecNet.

I once had a very nice booklet of about 20 pages from DEC explaining why DecNet was superior to Token Ring. I'm not entirely sure I was convinced.
When I joined HSBC in '99 the floor of at least 30 staff had one DecNet terminal for some hell-spawned email thing that made elm look sophisticated.
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Old 24th July 2020, 03:21 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
But then again, don't get me started on DecNet.

I once had a very nice booklet of about 20 pages from DEC explaining why DecNet was superior to Token Ring. I'm not entirely sure I was convinced.
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
When I joined HSBC in '99 the floor of at least 30 staff had one DecNet terminal for some hell-spawned email thing that made elm look sophisticated.

I'm just about to go to bed, but couldn't help but add a quick rejoinder to both of you. You both do not understand what DECnet is. DECnet is a network protocol, akin to TCP/IP, not dependent on physical network infrastructure such as Token Ring or Ethernet or two coconuts-tied-together-with-string.


I am a DECnet expert, and love it for what it is - a very clean and well-documented network protocol upon which a lot has been implemented and developed. Of course, it is somewhat dated today, but then again so is TCP/IP v4 (and some might say v6 too).


So there
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Old 24th July 2020, 05:54 PM   #142
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All this spurred an odd memory ... In one of our computer rooms filled with VT-100 terminals, there was a spray can with a DEC logo on it. The only text on the can was a warning: "Eye Irritant."

We kept the can of "Digital Eye Irritant" around for years, just in case.
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Old 25th July 2020, 01:05 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
But then again, don't get me started on DecNet.

I once had a very nice booklet of about 20 pages from DEC explaining why DecNet was superior to Token Ring. I'm not entirely sure I was convinced.

Ah, now beginning to understand the source of your confusion. You're confusing DECnet with Ethernet. EthernetWP was, of course, in competition with Token Ring, FDDI et al. DEC was a founder member of the consortium to establish Ethernet standards:


Quote:
The first standard was published on September 30, 1980 as "The Ethernet, A Local Area Network. Data Link Layer and Physical Layer Specifications".

I'll leave you to guess which network technology won (hint: it wasn't Token Ring).
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Old 25th July 2020, 04:59 AM   #144
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Oh I respect DEC having learned to program on a pair of Vaxen (running BSD sorry). I have no clear memories of this thing. The user guide had something about Decnet on the front and the email system was as clunky as a bucket of bricks. I used it once when I was given an id, found nothing on it as nobody used it. Lotus Notes was a massive improvement as dealing with the new support staff was hilarious.
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Old 25th July 2020, 06:31 AM   #145
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I remember purchasing OS/2 warp from a discount store and installing like 50 3.5 floppies because a friend talked me into it. I purchased Slackware 1.0 from Tower Books and may still have the installation CD. I had a chance to buy Windows 1.0 for nostalgic purposes, but didn't because I already was at 3.0 (purchased as a bundle to a wireless mouse.
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Old 25th July 2020, 10:43 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Blue Bubble View Post
Ah, now beginning to understand the source of your confusion. You're confusing DECnet with Ethernet. EthernetWP was, of course, in competition with Token Ring, FDDI et al. DEC was a founder member of the consortium to establish Ethernet standards:





I'll leave you to guess which network technology won (hint: it wasn't Token Ring).
Yes. You are of course correct. But then, I voted for the OSI Model.
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Old 27th July 2020, 02:02 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Yes. You are of course correct. But then, I voted for the OSI Model.

Congratulations, you voted for DECnetWP



Quote:
... thus transforming DEC into a networking powerhouse in the 1980s. Initially built with three layers, it later (1982) evolved into a seven-layer OSI-compliant networking protocol.


Move from a proprietary network to an Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) by integration of ISO standards to provide multi-vendor connectivity and compatibility with DNA Phase IV, the last two features resulted in a hybrid network architecture (DNA and OSI) with separate “towers” sharing an integrated transport layer. Transparent transport level links to TCP/IP were added via the IETF RFC 1006 (OSI over IP) and RFC 1859 (NSP over IP) standards.
It was later renamed DECnet/OSI to emphasize its OSI interconnectibility, and subsequently DECnet-Plus as TCP/IP protocols were incorporated.
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Old 27th July 2020, 05:36 AM   #148
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and claim to be the only one here to have used Sintran IIIWP (1982-1984ish), the operating system for Norsk DataWP computers. Norsk Data systems were quite popular once-upon-a-time at CERN and EMBL (European Molecular Biology Laboratory), where I worked. These systems had a core (pun intended) of quite ardent supporters, who were quite vociferous in opposing their replacement by a VAX 11/780 in 1982. Re core: these were the last machines I ever worked on with real core memory, and I recall it was a pain to troubleshoot memory errors to locate which 4 Kbyte board was the defective one.


Quote:
Sintran III was a real-time, multitasking, multi-user operating system used with Norsk Data computers from 1974. Unlike its predecessors Sintran I and II, it was entirely written by Norsk Data. Sintran III was written in NORD PL, intermediate language for Norsk Data computers.


I'm also a bit disappointed that nobody seems to have mentioned any of the CDC (Control Data Corporation) or Cray operating environments, though I was a mere vanilla user of those (Fortran edit-compile-link-run, lather, rinse, repeat ...).


Which brings me to ... operating systems would often be rated in direct correlation to the OS-supplied file editor(s). I have really fond memories of the ZED editor on the University of Cambridge Phoenix (computer)WP system (mid 1970s). See Philip Hazel's "From Punched Cards to Flat Screens - A Technical Autobiography" for an interesting read (Philip Hazel was the original author and developer of EximWP, Exim mail transfer agent



Quote:
In August 2019 a study performed by E-Soft, Inc., approximated that 57% of the publicly reachable mail-servers on the Internet ran Exim.

But, of course, the editor I loved the most was EDT (Digital)WP. I never ever came to even begin to like EmacsWP ...


Hint: let the editor wars begin
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Old 27th July 2020, 07:24 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Looks like CICS is enough to kill any thread.
There was a period when I was looking for a job and it seemed everyone wanted programmers with at least two years experience programming CICS. The only way to learn it was . . . working someplace that ran CICS.

I listed with a job service that seemed promising. Then, when I was supposed to come in for my initial interview with them, to lay out what I could do and what they could do for me, the interviewer called and said we had to cancel because everyone was doing a superbig rush job. Then, she had a two-week vacation. And she was so enthusiastic about me that she didn’t want me to see anyone’s else there.

Two weeks later I came in and told her that they were only interested in shuffling around CICS programmers, and I wasn’t interested in working with them.

She seemed disappointed.
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Old 27th July 2020, 12:47 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Blue Bubble View Post
Hint: let the editor wars begin
Editor wars are so stupid, once one realizes vim is the best.



















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Old 27th July 2020, 12:48 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Yes. You are of course correct. But then, I voted for the OSI Model.
The main problem with the OSI model is layer 8.
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Old 27th July 2020, 02:47 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Editor wars are so stupid, once one realizes vim is the best.



I think you’ll find it’s spelt ‘vi’.

I first learnt either ed or ex, I forget which, and then vi, and my fingers still know the vi commands. I did use Xemacs for quite a while, but with a plug-in (I forget the correct term) that used the vi keys instead.
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Old 27th July 2020, 02:49 PM   #153
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I used a VAX one of some sort, but forget what it was called.
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Old 27th July 2020, 04:01 PM   #154
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I tried to learn vi once. It made absolutely zero sense. But I'm not a coder. Perhaps it makes sense in the context of coding.
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Old 27th July 2020, 06:18 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I tried to learn vi once. It made absolutely zero sense. But I'm not a coder. Perhaps it makes sense in the context of coding.
You're right on both counts!

For example, in command mode 'd' + another key deletes something: 'w' deletes a word (stopping at punctuation), 'W' deletes a word (stopping only at whitespace), 'd' the current line, '}' from the cursor to the end of the paragraph or code block, and a few others I don't know about. Prefix it with one or more digits for a count: '3dw' deletes three words delimited by punctuation, '3dW' deletes three words delimited by whitespace, '3dd' deletes three full lines. So you can do some pretty cool tricks in vi or vim, but at the expense of a significant learning curve and nasty surprises if you hit the wrong keys.
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Old 27th July 2020, 06:20 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
You're right on both counts!

For example, in command mode 'd' + another key deletes something: 'w' deletes a word (stopping at punctuation), 'W' deletes a word (stopping only at whitespace), 'd' the current line, '}' from the cursor to the end of the paragraph or code block, and a few others I don't know about. Prefix it with one or more digits for a count: '3dw' deletes three words delimited by punctuation, '3dW' deletes three words delimited by whitespace, '3dd' deletes three full lines. So you can do some pretty cool tricks in vi or vim, but at the expense of a significant learning curve and nasty surprises if you hit the wrong keys.
I think I'd rather teach myself how to play Dwarf Fortress.
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Old 27th July 2020, 06:41 PM   #157
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Depends what you’re doing. I spend most of my working day in IntelliJ. I pay for it as it’s so powerful with the best code completion I’ve seen. But I write my shell scripts on the linuxes with vim (used off and on since 1983 and still only use a few commands) or various files on windows with notepad++.
For some things I still IBMs ISPF editor for line oriented editing. Notepad++ has some neat stuff there but I had a load of nifty macros for the above and I prefer a keyboard to a mouse.
My nephew’s favourite editor is CRISPR.
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Old 28th July 2020, 12:10 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
My nephew’s favourite editor is CRISPR.

Yes, I understood that
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Old 28th July 2020, 02:04 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I tried to learn vi once. It made absolutely zero sense. But I'm not a coder. Perhaps it makes sense in the context of coding.
You'll find it used more often in sysadmin circles these days. Coders want advanced GUI stuff with mouse controlled auto complete and syntax checks etc.

Vim is tiny (2.3MB on my system), comes pre-installed on most servers, does not require a GUI and is still very powerful. That's the reason almost every sysadmin I know knows how to use at least the basic functions. They might like and use other editors too, but they all know vi!

If you know how to use arcane syntax like for bash, sed, awk etc. it's not even that difficult to learn
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Old 28th July 2020, 02:16 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Novell Netware I have heard of. My brother was an admin. Novell was crushed by Microsoft. It must have been a bad experience because he has only done PC admin since then.
Unhappy memories of being sysadmin for a Novell Netware network installed in temporary secure offices where the network cables were on the floor in an ideal place to be kicked by users and in a building which was mostly glass, absolutely sealed and had no aircon. In the summer, the temperature regularly got over 40C in the offices which meant the PCs overheated and crashed (as did the employees because we had to wear wool suits, long-sleeved shirts and ties

I'm reminded of Netware these days when I'm on a Skype call with colleagues from maybe 6 different time zones. Instead of having to work out whether to wish people a good morning, afternoon or evening I revert to the Netware syntax of:

"Good greeting_time username"
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