[Continuation] Covid-19 and Politics pt 2 - Page 17

dann · 27th August 2020, 11:13 PM

Most Approve of National Response to COVID-19 in 14 Advanced Economies (Pew Research Center, Aug. 27, 2020)
I would have liked to see countries like Finland, Norway, Iceland and New Zealand on the list, but they aren't. The major English-speaking countries all are.

Planigale · 27th August 2020, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Testing. You just need to stop doing all that damn testing; then you won't have so many cases.

This is a real problem, driven by politicians making populist decisions. To be clear this a problem in Scotland and England so is not a party political issue. In Scotland the government promised schools testing whenever they wanted. Most tests are now being done on worried well with no clinical indication. I have previously posted how testing has negative as well as positive consequences. With Covid-19 prevalence being low about half of positive results are false positives. This means people are being unnecessarily stopped from working and their households likewise. The number of unnecessary tests is impacting on the ability to do clinically indicated tests, people are having to travel further to be tested (at the weekend some Scots had to travel to England to be tested), and are waiting longer for results. Negative tests are providing false reassurance, contacts of cases are getting tested outwith of the 'track and trace' contact tracing protocols, a day or two after contact they test negative then do not understand why the contact tracing teams tell them they still have to isolate.

Increasingly testing is done as a political sop. We want to get schools back, we will promise schools lots of testing. This is a political decision not a scientifically driven one.

Samson · 28th August 2020, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by Planigale

This is a real problem, driven by politicians making populist decisions. To be clear this a problem in Scotland and England so is not a party political issue. In Scotland the government promised schools testing whenever they wanted. Most tests are now being done on worried well with no clinical indication. I have previously posted how testing has negative as well as positive consequences. With Covid-19 prevalence being low about half of positive results are false positives. This means people are being unnecessarily stopped from working and their households likewise. The number of unnecessary tests is impacting on the ability to do clinically indicated tests, people are having to travel further to be tested (at the weekend some Scots had to travel to England to be tested), and are waiting longer for results. Negative tests are providing false reassurance, contacts of cases are getting tested outwith of the 'track and trace' contact tracing protocols, a day or two after contact they test negative then do not understand why the contact tracing teams tell them they still have to isolate.

Increasingly testing is done as a political sop. We want to get schools back, we will promise schools lots of testing. This is a political decision not a scientifically driven one.

I do not believe this on false positives.
All positives from 150,000 tests are linked to the cluster in NZ.

Ulf Nereng · 28th August 2020, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by dann

Most Approve of National Response to COVID-19 in 14 Advanced Economies (Pew Research Center, Aug. 27, 2020)
I would have liked to see countries like Finland, Norway, Iceland and New Zealand on the list, but they aren't. The major English-speaking countries all are.

Here in Norway the government's approval rating for handling of covid-19 is 80% this week. That's down from 91% in week 23, though. When asked if they think the mitigation efforts are the correct ones, 77% think they are.

Andy_Ross · 28th August 2020, 03:01 AM

Go back to work or risk losing your job, we need you to buy overpriced coffee and sandwiches from chains that don't even pay tax in the UK or the whole illusion of capitalism will fall down.

Our town centres died years back when out of town supermarkets/B&Q/Toys'R'us ****** up the ecosystem. We have entire high streets where the only premises are phone repair shops, nail bars, turkish barbers and costa/pret/starbucks/charity shops. They've been on life support for about 20 years.

Seeing the Tories who benefited from the change from shopping to café culture desperately trying to make us go back in to consume their overpriced rubbish when we can work from home and make better coffee there is hilarious.

For years 'home working has been pushed as a way of releaving congestion in cit centres. Seems it is only supposed to apply to a certain 'elite' set of workers.
Sensible employers everywhere have seen the increase in productivity that home-working has achieved and many are considering doing away with central offices altogether and saving rent

Tories don't like that either. They're the landlords!

dann · 28th August 2020, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng

Here in Norway the government's approval rating for handling of covid-19 is 80% this week. That's down from 91% in week 23, though. When asked if they think the mitigation efforts are the correct ones, 77% think they are.

Do you have any idea why it is so (relatively) low? 80% isn't much better than Italy or even Sweden. And the pandemic response in Norway was more effective than Denmark's.

Ulf Nereng · 28th August 2020, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by dann

Do you have any idea why it is so (relatively) low? 80% isn't much better than Italy or even Sweden. And the pandemic response in Norway was more effective than Denmark's.

Perhaps because there are now things to criticize the government for. Just judging from my own personal approval of it, which has sunk lately. Hurtigruten had most of the responsibility for the outbreak on their ship, but it was the government who allowed the cruise ships to sail in the first place. The people who went on holidays abroad and then to a party in their hometown were idiots, but the government could have had much stricter travel restrictions. Schools have opened, which I consider to be dangerous at this time. I do approve of the strong recommendation to use masks on public transport, but I think they could have made it mandatory.

Other people may have opposite views, though. Restrictions too tight, facemasks not necessary, etc.

Darat · 28th August 2020, 09:33 AM

From a Guardian article today:

Boris Johnson has given us a new mantra: Leave home. Forget the NHS. Save Pret

Darat · 28th August 2020, 09:45 AM

Noticed they've decided on the "message" for getting people back to offices - it's all about "getting people back to work" - the implication of course is that those working at home aren't really working.

This could have been a great time for a visionary government to embrace the changes caused by the pandemic and set the country up for the future. But nope - their mates are now hurting so "back to work" we must go.

Planigale · 28th August 2020, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Noticed they've decided on the "message" for getting people back to offices - it's all about "getting people back to work" - the implication of course is that those working at home aren't really working.

This could have been a great time for a visionary government to embrace the changes caused by the pandemic and set the country up for the future. But nope - their mates are now hurting so "back to work" we must go.

In theory I agree. In practice this is all a very tight schedule for making plans for the future. Even developing short term protocols for dealing with cancer cases in the time of covid is quite time consuming. I think you over estimate the competency of politicians.

Childlike Empress · 28th August 2020, 01:57 PM

As to the mega demo against the developing Corona-dictatorship tomorrow, the senate of Berlin tried to call them off on Tuesday, just to have that decree declared unconstitutional by the judiciary today. So it looks like everything will happen as planned, which will make the events of 1.8. look like the warm-up they were. I'll drop some live stream links tomorrow noon so you as well can watch the events unfold in their true glory.

Childlike Empress · 29th August 2020, 02:25 AM

The parade is about to begin. They will walk about 10 kms through Berlin from the Brandenburger Tor back to it, and then the main event will start. This time on the whole area of the historical Love Parades, with the stage at the Siegessäule. Last time this stream walked with the front of the parade:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

There are tons of streams on youtube.

RedStapler · 29th August 2020, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

The parade is about to begin. They will walk about 10 kms through Berlin from the Brandenburger Tor back to it, and then the main event will start. This time on the whole area of the historical Love Parades, with the stage at the Siegessäule. Last time this stream walked with the front of the parade:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

There are tons of streams on youtube.

Yay, let's cheer for the Nazis and "Reichsbürger"

Childlike Empress · 29th August 2020, 03:11 AM

As you can see in the stream, a small group of rogue police has blockaded the demonstration route. Superman is there but seems a bit toothless.

RedStapler · 29th August 2020, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

As you can see in the stream, a small group of rogue police has blockaded the demonstration route. Superman is there but seems a bit toothless.

It won't be any fun until the water cannons come into play and the scum get flushed from the streets.

The Don · 29th August 2020, 04:32 AM

Leaked UK government report. Reasonable worst case scenario for the winter, 81k Covid deaths and another 27k excess deaths from other causes.

Wonder if that factors in Brexit

Childlike Empress · 29th August 2020, 05:50 AM

Main event will start soon, semi-official livestream (50,000 viewers right now) is here:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

sphenisc · 29th August 2020, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Leaked UK government report. Reasonable worst case scenario for the winter, 81k Covid deaths and another 27k excess deaths from other causes.

Wonder if that factors in Brexit

BBC coverage of leaked report

Matthew Best · 29th August 2020, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Main event will start soon, semi-official livestream (50,000 viewers right now) is here:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

There is also a rally taking place in Trafalgar Square - David Icke is speaking, naturally.

Childlike Empress · 29th August 2020, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Reasonable

Where is Denial Ferguson when you need him?

Myriad · 29th August 2020, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by RedStapler

Yay, let's cheer for the Nazis and "Reichsbürger"

It's not Naziism. What we're seeing is part of the process Toynbee described for the decline and eventually collapse of civilizations, when the ruling elite has (rightfully, no doubt) lost the loyalty of the internal proletariat, which starts to align with the culture and interests of the external threats on the borders instead.

In this case, the external threat the internal proletariat is admiring and mimicking happens to be a virus.

And this event is just in the nick of time. The new case rate in Germany was starting to level off this week.

Childlike Empress · 29th August 2020, 07:46 AM

Official live stream:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

RedStapler · 29th August 2020, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Myriad

It's not Naziism. What we're seeing is part of the process Toynbee described for the decline and eventually collapse of civilizations, when the ruling elite has (rightfully, no doubt) lost the loyalty of the internal proletariat, which starts to align with the culture and interests of the external threats on the borders instead.

In this case, the external threat the internal proletariat is admiring and mimicking happens to be a virus.

And this event is just in the nick of time. The new case rate in Germany was starting to level off this week.

I live in Germany, this Demo is full of Nazis. Please inform yourself.

ETA: Regarding the new case rate leveling, what do you think is going to happen with the new case rate when 20000 Covidiots run through Berlin without distance and masks?

Childlike Empress · 29th August 2020, 07:50 AM

nm

zooterkin · 29th August 2020, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Update as of yesterday:
Latest R number range for the UK
0.8-1.0

Latest growth rate range for the UK
0% to -5%
per day

England regions:

Region	R	Growth rate % per day
England	0.8-1.0	-3 to 0
East of England^*	0.7-0.9	-4 to -1
London^*	0.8-1.1	-4 to +1
Midlands^*	0.8-1.0	-3 to 0
North East and Yorkshire^*	0.8-1.0	-4 to 0
North West	0.8-1.1	-6 to +1
South East	0.8-1.0	-4 to 0
South West^*	0.8-1.1	-3 to +3

^*Low case numbers and/ or a high degree of variability in transmission across the region means these estimates are insufficiently robust to inform policy decisions.

Latest figures.
Latest R number range for the UK
0.9-1.1

Latest growth rate range for the UK
-2% to +1%
per day

England regions:

Region	R	Growth rate % per day
England	0.9-1.1	-2 to +1
East of England^*	0.8-1.0	-3 to 0
London^*	0.9-1.1	-2 to +1
Midlands^*	0.8-1.1	-3 to +1
North East and Yorkshire^*	0.8-1.0	-3 to +1
North West	0.9-1.1	-3 to +1
South East^*	0.9-1.1	-2 to +1
South West^*	0.9-1.1	-2 to +2

^*Low case numbers and/ or a high degree of variability in transmission across the region means these estimates are insufficiently robust to inform policy decisions.

The figures are gradually creeping up, though more of them are caveated with "low case numbers".

Andy_Ross · 29th August 2020, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

There is also a rally taking place in Trafalgar Square - David Icke is speaking, naturally.

British Union of Fascists flags in display.

zooterkin · 29th August 2020, 08:16 AM

Richard Littlejohn (spit) in the Daily Heil (spit):

Quote:

Millions of people WFH is a Fool’s Paradise. It can’t last much longer, but unless business gets back to normal sooner rather than later, the consequences will be catastrophic.

The British economy is like that popular parlour game, Jenga, played with wooden blocks piled on top of each other to create a tower.

Removing blocks makes the tower increasingly unstable until the whole shooting match comes crashing down. We’re not far off that now.

I give it six weeks, tops. If the schools aren’t up and running next month, allowing hard-pressed parents to get back to their desks, carnage lies ahead.
...

Oh, hang on:

Quote:

In the interests of full disclosure, I should tell you that, like most people who write for a living, I’ve worked from home for the past 30-odd years, unless I’ve been broadcasting and needed to be in a studio.

Mojo · 29th August 2020, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Richard Littlejohn (spit) in the Daily Heil (spit):

Oh, hang on:

A stopped clock is right twice a day...

Matthew Best · 29th August 2020, 08:44 AM

Here is a link to a proper story about the Trafalgar Square protest (rather than a live constantly updating story).

I particularly enjoyed this quote from Elisha Edwardes, 36, who said she was at the protest “to support the movement for freedom”.

Quote:

I’m here to create awareness and I feel that the mass majority of people have been deceived. And I think it’s easier to deceive people than convince them they’ve been deceived.

Yes, dear, that has been very neatly demonstrated today.

Georg · 29th August 2020, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by RedStapler

I live in Germany, this Demo is full of Nazis. Please inform yourself.

Nazis, Reichsbürger, left wing crazies, conspiracy nuts, Hippies, tin foil hat wearers, religious nuts, Falung Gong, and about every other fringe group you can imagine, and the speakers were about as crazy as the protesters.

Different groups that are bitter enemies in other circumstances, all united by common single issue imbecility.

Actually quite good entertainment to follow some of the live streams during a rainy (where I live) day (thanks CE for the links

).

Sad that those that were attending take that thing really serious........ as an organized Poe it would have been brilliant.

RedStapler · 29th August 2020, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Georg

Nazis, Reichsbürger, left wing crazies, conspiracy nuts, Hippies, tin foil hat wearers, religious nuts, Falung Gong, and about every other fringe group you can imagine, and the speakers were about as crazy as the protesters.

Different groups that are bitter enemies in other circumstances, all united by common single issue imbecility.

Actually quite good entertainment to follow some of the live streams during a rainy (where I live) day (thanks CE for the links

).

Sad that those that were attending take that thing really serious........ as an organized Poe it would have been brilliant.

Yeah, I watched a small Twitch.tv stream where a guy in superman costume was yelling through a megaphone, complaining about his right of free speech being taken away (while walking through Berlin the whole day, telling us his "opinion"

)

Ulf Nereng · 29th August 2020, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by RedStapler

I live in Germany, this Demo is full of Nazis. Please inform yourself.

ETA: Regarding the new case rate leveling, what do you think is going to happen with the new case rate when 20000 Covidiots run through Berlin without distance and masks?

And pushed by the usual "don't trust the media&don't trust your government" useful idiots for Putin.

RedStapler · 29th August 2020, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng

And pushed by the usual "don't trust the media&don't trust your government" useful idiots for Putin.

Yeah, it was a truly embarrassing sight... and in a few days when the first people realize that they are infected, it will be "Hey healthcare system which was established by the government, you have to help me!!!"

Georg · 29th August 2020, 09:03 AM

@ RedStapler: I agree that it would have been better with water cannons used by the police.
And I say that as a not really cop loving person.

RedStapler · 29th August 2020, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Georg

@ RedStapler: I agree that it would have been better with water cannons used by the police.
And I say that as a not really cop loving person.

Slim chance on this Saturday but they already made it clear that this will go on until the government resigns

So, these Saturday "protests" will be a common thing for the next months.

Georg · 29th August 2020, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by RedStapler

Slim chance on this Saturday but they already made it clear that this will go on until the government resigns

So, these Saturday "protests" will be a common thing for the next months.

So there is still hope

?

RedStapler · 29th August 2020, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Georg

So there is still hope

?

Absolutely

KDLarsen · 29th August 2020, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Georg

Nazis, Reichsbürger, left wing crazies, conspiracy nuts, Hippies, tin foil hat wearers, religious nuts, Falung Gong, and about every other fringe group you can imagine, and the speakers were about as crazy as the protesters.

Different groups that are bitter enemies in other circumstances, all united by common single issue imbecility.

Actually quite good entertainment to follow some of the live streams during a rainy (where I live) day (thanks CE for the links

).

Sad that those that were attending take that thing really serious........ as an organized Poe it would have been brilliant.

I even saw a Qanon adherent in there.

And speaking of Falun Gong, I wonder how they got on with the Hare Krishnas whom I also spotted

Georg · 29th August 2020, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

I even saw a Qanon adherent in there.

And speaking of Falun Gong, I wonder how they got on with the Hare Krishnas whom I also spotted

As I wrote:

Quote:

Different groups that are bitter enemies in other circumstances, all united by common single issue imbecility.

.

I don´t think the protests will go on until the government resigns, as RedStapler heard them saying, the single issue will not be enough to glue them together.

Elagabalus · 29th August 2020, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

There is also a rally taking place in Trafalgar Square - David Icke is speaking, naturally.

He's not using his Big Room voice?

27th August 2020, 11:13 PM	#641
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 19,223	Most Approve of National Response to COVID-19 in 14 Advanced Economies (Pew Research Center, Aug. 27, 2020) I would have liked to see countries like Finland, Norway, Iceland and New Zealand on the list, but they aren't. The major English-speaking countries all are.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

28th August 2020, 03:52 AM	#646
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 19,223	Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng Here in Norway the government's approval rating for handling of covid-19 is 80% this week. That's down from 91% in week 23, though. When asked if they think the mitigation efforts are the correct ones, 77% think they are. Do you have any idea why it is so (relatively) low? 80% isn't much better than Italy or even Sweden. And the pandemic response in Norway was more effective than Denmark's.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

28th August 2020, 09:33 AM	#648
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 112,595	From a Guardian article today: Boris Johnson has given us a new mantra: Leave home. Forget the NHS. Save Pret
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

28th August 2020, 09:45 AM	#649
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 112,595	Noticed they've decided on the "message" for getting people back to offices - it's all about "getting people back to work" - the implication of course is that those working at home aren't really working. This could have been a great time for a visionary government to embrace the changes caused by the pandemic and set the country up for the future. But nope - their mates are now hurting so "back to work" we must go.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

29th August 2020, 03:17 AM	#655
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress As you can see in the stream, a small group of rogue police has blockaded the demonstration route. Superman is there but seems a bit toothless. It won't be any fun until the water cannons come into play and the scum get flushed from the streets.
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839

27th August 2020, 11:42 PM	#642
Planigale Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 49 North Posts: 6,539	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Testing. You just need to stop doing all that damn testing; then you won't have so many cases. This is a real problem, driven by politicians making populist decisions. To be clear this a problem in Scotland and England so is not a party political issue. In Scotland the government promised schools testing whenever they wanted. Most tests are now being done on worried well with no clinical indication. I have previously posted how testing has negative as well as positive consequences. With Covid-19 prevalence being low about half of positive results are false positives. This means people are being unnecessarily stopped from working and their households likewise. The number of unnecessary tests is impacting on the ability to do clinically indicated tests, people are having to travel further to be tested (at the weekend some Scots had to travel to England to be tested), and are waiting longer for results. Negative tests are providing false reassurance, contacts of cases are getting tested outwith of the 'track and trace' contact tracing protocols, a day or two after contact they test negative then do not understand why the contact tracing teams tell them they still have to isolate. Increasingly testing is done as a political sop. We want to get schools back, we will promise schools lots of testing. This is a political decision not a scientifically driven one.

28th August 2020, 12:38 AM	#643
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 11,699	Originally Posted by Planigale This is a real problem, driven by politicians making populist decisions. To be clear this a problem in Scotland and England so is not a party political issue. In Scotland the government promised schools testing whenever they wanted. Most tests are now being done on worried well with no clinical indication. I have previously posted how testing has negative as well as positive consequences. With Covid-19 prevalence being low about half of positive results are false positives. This means people are being unnecessarily stopped from working and their households likewise. The number of unnecessary tests is impacting on the ability to do clinically indicated tests, people are having to travel further to be tested (at the weekend some Scots had to travel to England to be tested), and are waiting longer for results. Negative tests are providing false reassurance, contacts of cases are getting tested outwith of the 'track and trace' contact tracing protocols, a day or two after contact they test negative then do not understand why the contact tracing teams tell them they still have to isolate. Increasingly testing is done as a political sop. We want to get schools back, we will promise schools lots of testing. This is a political decision not a scientifically driven one. I do not believe this on false positives. All positives from 150,000 tests are linked to the cluster in NZ.

28th August 2020, 01:57 AM	#644
Ulf Nereng Muse Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Norway Posts: 652	Originally Posted by dann Most Approve of National Response to COVID-19 in 14 Advanced Economies (Pew Research Center, Aug. 27, 2020) I would have liked to see countries like Finland, Norway, Iceland and New Zealand on the list, but they aren't. The major English-speaking countries all are. Here in Norway the government's approval rating for handling of covid-19 is 80% this week. That's down from 91% in week 23, though. When asked if they think the mitigation efforts are the correct ones, 77% think they are.

28th August 2020, 03:01 AM	#645
Andy_Ross Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 46,390	Go back to work or risk losing your job, we need you to buy overpriced coffee and sandwiches from chains that don't even pay tax in the UK or the whole illusion of capitalism will fall down. Our town centres died years back when out of town supermarkets/B&Q/Toys'R'us ****** up the ecosystem. We have entire high streets where the only premises are phone repair shops, nail bars, turkish barbers and costa/pret/starbucks/charity shops. They've been on life support for about 20 years. Seeing the Tories who benefited from the change from shopping to café culture desperately trying to make us go back in to consume their overpriced rubbish when we can work from home and make better coffee there is hilarious. For years 'home working has been pushed as a way of releaving congestion in cit centres. Seems it is only supposed to apply to a certain 'elite' set of workers. Sensible employers everywhere have seen the increase in productivity that home-working has achieved and many are considering doing away with central offices altogether and saving rent Tories don't like that either. They're the landlords!

28th August 2020, 04:38 AM	#647
Ulf Nereng Muse Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Norway Posts: 652	Originally Posted by dann Do you have any idea why it is so (relatively) low? 80% isn't much better than Italy or even Sweden. And the pandemic response in Norway was more effective than Denmark's. Perhaps because there are now things to criticize the government for. Just judging from my own personal approval of it, which has sunk lately. Hurtigruten had most of the responsibility for the outbreak on their ship, but it was the government who allowed the cruise ships to sail in the first place. The people who went on holidays abroad and then to a party in their hometown were idiots, but the government could have had much stricter travel restrictions. Schools have opened, which I consider to be dangerous at this time. I do approve of the strong recommendation to use masks on public transport, but I think they could have made it mandatory. Other people may have opposite views, though. Restrictions too tight, facemasks not necessary, etc.

28th August 2020, 11:15 AM	#650
Planigale Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 49 North Posts: 6,539	Originally Posted by Darat Noticed they've decided on the "message" for getting people back to offices - it's all about "getting people back to work" - the implication of course is that those working at home aren't really working. This could have been a great time for a visionary government to embrace the changes caused by the pandemic and set the country up for the future. But nope - their mates are now hurting so "back to work" we must go. In theory I agree. In practice this is all a very tight schedule for making plans for the future. Even developing short term protocols for dealing with cancer cases in the time of covid is quite time consuming. I think you over estimate the competency of politicians.

28th August 2020, 01:57 PM	#651
Childlike Empress Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 20,632	As to the mega demo against the developing Corona-dictatorship tomorrow, the senate of Berlin tried to call them off on Tuesday, just to have that decree declared unconstitutional by the judiciary today. So it looks like everything will happen as planned, which will make the events of 1.8. look like the warm-up they were. I'll drop some live stream links tomorrow noon so you as well can watch the events unfold in their true glory.

29th August 2020, 03:11 AM	#654
Childlike Empress Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 20,632	As you can see in the stream, a small group of rogue police has blockaded the demonstration route. Superman is there but seems a bit toothless.

29th August 2020, 04:32 AM	#656
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 37,271	Leaked UK government report. Reasonable worst case scenario for the winter, 81k Covid deaths and another 27k excess deaths from other causes. Wonder if that factors in Brexit

29th August 2020, 06:03 AM	#658
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,943	Originally Posted by The Don Leaked UK government report. Reasonable worst case scenario for the winter, 81k Covid deaths and another 27k excess deaths from other causes. Wonder if that factors in Brexit BBC coverage of leaked report
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,943	__________________ "The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen

29th August 2020, 07:23 AM	#660
Childlike Empress Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 20,632	Originally Posted by The Don Reasonable Where is Denial Ferguson when you need him?

29th August 2020, 07:37 AM	#661
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 20,706	Originally Posted by RedStapler Yay, let's cheer for the Nazis and "Reichsbürger" It's not Naziism. What we're seeing is part of the process Toynbee described for the decline and eventually collapse of civilizations, when the ruling elite has (rightfully, no doubt) lost the loyalty of the internal proletariat, which starts to align with the culture and interests of the external threats on the borders instead. In this case, the external threat the internal proletariat is admiring and mimicking happens to be a virus. And this event is just in the nick of time. The new case rate in Germany was starting to level off this week.
	__________________ "*Except Myriad. Even Cthulhu would give him a pat on the head and an ice cream and send him to the movies while he ended the rest of the world." - Foster Zygote

29th August 2020, 07:48 AM	#663
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839	Originally Posted by Myriad It's not Naziism. What we're seeing is part of the process Toynbee described for the decline and eventually collapse of civilizations, when the ruling elite has (rightfully, no doubt) lost the loyalty of the internal proletariat, which starts to align with the culture and interests of the external threats on the borders instead. In this case, the external threat the internal proletariat is admiring and mimicking happens to be a virus. And this event is just in the nick of time. The new case rate in Germany was starting to level off this week. I live in Germany, this Demo is full of Nazis. Please inform yourself. ETA: Regarding the new case rate leveling, what do you think is going to happen with the new case rate when 20000 Covidiots run through Berlin without distance and masks?
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839	Last edited by RedStapler; 29th August 2020 at 08:24 AM.

29th August 2020, 07:50 AM	#664
Childlike Empress Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 20,632	nm
	Last edited by Childlike Empress; 29th August 2020 at 07:51 AM.

29th August 2020, 08:09 AM	#666
Andy_Ross Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 46,390	Originally Posted by Matthew Best There is also a rally taking place in Trafalgar Square - David Icke is speaking, naturally. British Union of Fascists flags in display.

29th August 2020, 08:16 AM	#667
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 57,139	Richard Littlejohn (spit) in the Daily Heil (spit): Quote: Millions of people WFH is a Fool’s Paradise. It can’t last much longer, but unless business gets back to normal sooner rather than later, the consequences will be catastrophic. The British economy is like that popular parlour game, Jenga, played with wooden blocks piled on top of each other to create a tower. Removing blocks makes the tower increasingly unstable until the whole shooting match comes crashing down. We’re not far off that now. I give it six weeks, tops. If the schools aren’t up and running next month, allowing hard-pressed parents to get back to their desks, carnage lies ahead. ... Oh, hang on: Quote: In the interests of full disclosure, I should tell you that, like most people who write for a living, I’ve worked from home for the past 30-odd years, unless I’ve been broadcasting and needed to be in a studio.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

29th August 2020, 08:21 AM	#668
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 38,056	Originally Posted by zooterkin Richard Littlejohn (spit) in the Daily Heil (spit): Oh, hang on: A stopped clock is right twice a day...
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

29th August 2020, 08:44 AM	#669
Matthew Best Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 10,204	Here is a link to a proper story about the Trafalgar Square protest (rather than a live constantly updating story). I particularly enjoyed this quote from Elisha Edwardes, 36, who said she was at the protest “to support the movement for freedom”. Quote: I’m here to create awareness and I feel that the mass majority of people have been deceived. And I think it’s easier to deceive people than convince them they’ve been deceived. Yes, dear, that has been very neatly demonstrated today.
	Last edited by Matthew Best; 29th August 2020 at 08:53 AM.

29th August 2020, 08:47 AM	#670
Georg Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bavaria, Germany Posts: 1,501	Originally Posted by RedStapler I live in Germany, this Demo is full of Nazis. Please inform yourself. Nazis, Reichsbürger, left wing crazies, conspiracy nuts, Hippies, tin foil hat wearers, religious nuts, Falung Gong, and about every other fringe group you can imagine, and the speakers were about as crazy as the protesters. Different groups that are bitter enemies in other circumstances, all united by common single issue imbecility. Actually quite good entertainment to follow some of the live streams during a rainy (where I live) day (thanks CE for the links ). Sad that those that were attending take that thing really serious........ as an organized Poe it would have been brilliant.
	__________________ I wonder if there's any quadruple amputee dwarfs on death row? quarky I am 38 years old. I think I can handle a horny priest! -Fran- I think it's possible it will turn out that the whole point of human evolution is only as an intermediate step in the creation of robot hookers. -Piscivore-

29th August 2020, 08:53 AM	#671
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839	Originally Posted by Georg Nazis, Reichsbürger, left wing crazies, conspiracy nuts, Hippies, tin foil hat wearers, religious nuts, Falung Gong, and about every other fringe group you can imagine, and the speakers were about as crazy as the protesters. Different groups that are bitter enemies in other circumstances, all united by common single issue imbecility. Actually quite good entertainment to follow some of the live streams during a rainy (where I live) day (thanks CE for the links ). Sad that those that were attending take that thing really serious........ as an organized Poe it would have been brilliant. Yeah, I watched a small Twitch.tv stream where a guy in superman costume was yelling through a megaphone, complaining about his right of free speech being taken away (while walking through Berlin the whole day, telling us his "opinion" )
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839

29th August 2020, 08:59 AM	#672
Ulf Nereng Muse Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Norway Posts: 652	Originally Posted by RedStapler I live in Germany, this Demo is full of Nazis. Please inform yourself. ETA: Regarding the new case rate leveling, what do you think is going to happen with the new case rate when 20000 Covidiots run through Berlin without distance and masks? And pushed by the usual "don't trust the media&don't trust your government" useful idiots for Putin.

29th August 2020, 09:03 AM	#673
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839	Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng And pushed by the usual "don't trust the media&don't trust your government" useful idiots for Putin. Yeah, it was a truly embarrassing sight... and in a few days when the first people realize that they are infected, it will be "Hey healthcare system which was established by the government, you have to help me!!!"
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839

29th August 2020, 09:03 AM	#674
Georg Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bavaria, Germany Posts: 1,501	@ RedStapler: I agree that it would have been better with water cannons used by the police. And I say that as a not really cop loving person.
	__________________ I wonder if there's any quadruple amputee dwarfs on death row? quarky I am 38 years old. I think I can handle a horny priest! -Fran- I think it's possible it will turn out that the whole point of human evolution is only as an intermediate step in the creation of robot hookers. -Piscivore-

29th August 2020, 09:08 AM	#675
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839	Originally Posted by Georg @ RedStapler: I agree that it would have been better with water cannons used by the police. And I say that as a not really cop loving person. Slim chance on this Saturday but they already made it clear that this will go on until the government resigns So, these Saturday "protests" will be a common thing for the next months.
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839

29th August 2020, 09:10 AM	#676
Georg Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bavaria, Germany Posts: 1,501	Originally Posted by RedStapler Slim chance on this Saturday but they already made it clear that this will go on until the government resigns So, these Saturday "protests" will be a common thing for the next months. So there is still hope ?
	__________________ I wonder if there's any quadruple amputee dwarfs on death row? quarky I am 38 years old. I think I can handle a horny priest! -Fran- I think it's possible it will turn out that the whole point of human evolution is only as an intermediate step in the creation of robot hookers. -Piscivore-

29th August 2020, 09:11 AM	#677
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839	Originally Posted by Georg So there is still hope ? Absolutely
RedStapler Banned Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 839

29th August 2020, 09:37 AM	#678
KDLarsen Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,000	Originally Posted by Georg Nazis, Reichsbürger, left wing crazies, conspiracy nuts, Hippies, tin foil hat wearers, religious nuts, Falung Gong, and about every other fringe group you can imagine, and the speakers were about as crazy as the protesters. Different groups that are bitter enemies in other circumstances, all united by common single issue imbecility. Actually quite good entertainment to follow some of the live streams during a rainy (where I live) day (thanks CE for the links ). Sad that those that were attending take that thing really serious........ as an organized Poe it would have been brilliant. I even saw a Qanon adherent in there. And speaking of Falun Gong, I wonder how they got on with the Hare Krishnas whom I also spotted
KDLarsen Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,000

29th August 2020, 10:01 AM	#679
Georg Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bavaria, Germany Posts: 1,501	Originally Posted by KDLarsen I even saw a Qanon adherent in there. And speaking of Falun Gong, I wonder how they got on with the Hare Krishnas whom I also spotted As I wrote: Quote: Different groups that are bitter enemies in other circumstances, all united by common single issue imbecility. . I don´t think the protests will go on until the government resigns, as RedStapler heard them saying, the single issue will not be enough to glue them together.
	__________________ I wonder if there's any quadruple amputee dwarfs on death row? quarky I am 38 years old. I think I can handle a horny priest! -Fran- I think it's possible it will turn out that the whole point of human evolution is only as an intermediate step in the creation of robot hookers. -Piscivore-

29th August 2020, 12:00 PM	#680
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 7,051	Originally Posted by Matthew Best There is also a rally taking place in Trafalgar Square - David Icke is speaking, naturally. He's not using his Big Room voice?
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 7,051