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Old 17th October 2020, 11:44 PM   #1681
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An interesting example of the arrogance of wealth.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...to-us-12107123
Tony Blair feels he is too important for the rules on self-isolating after travel to a known covid-19 hot spot to apply to him. Because he has the wealth to have private tests (of unknown quality) he feels he should be exempt. I am also pretty sure no-one would claim this was essential travel.

To be fair to him he has expressed his expert opinion that testing can be used to cut short quarantining after travel, so he is merely practicing what he preaches. Still I hope he is prosecuted.
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Old 17th October 2020, 11:59 PM   #1682
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
My first instinct is this is wrong. And as said it may be counter-productive. But should people with a life threatening infectious disease be allowed to go on about their life as an MP endangering other people? This has certainly been done in other countries where those in isolation are checked on. Currently if some one is positive and they are reported to the police because they are going to the pub or work, there is no way for the police to know. With this proposal police can check on a named person basis (they will not be getting a download of names of all persons tested positive).

I am not sure this is a fundamental breach of rights, but whether in the longer term it is helpful or not I am uncertain.
Mrs Don has been using the app diligently. She uninstalled it this morning on this news. I'm sure she won't be the only one.
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Old 18th October 2020, 12:42 AM   #1683
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Mrs Don has been using the app diligently. She uninstalled it this morning on this news. I'm sure she won't be the only one.
Perhaps you had better explain to her this is nothing to do with the app. The data will be coming from the test centre which do the tests. The data on your phone remains inaccessible to the police short of a warrant.
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Old 18th October 2020, 01:40 AM   #1684
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
An interesting example of the arrogance of wealth.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...to-us-12107123
Tony Blair feels he is too important for the rules on self-isolating after travel to a known covid-19 hot spot to apply to him. Because he has the wealth to have private tests (of unknown quality) he feels he should be exempt. I am also pretty sure no-one would claim this was essential travel.

To be fair to him he has expressed his expert opinion that testing can be used to cut short quarantining after travel, so he is merely practicing what he preaches. Still I hope he is prosecuted.
Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Cummings left work as soon as he heard his wife had symptoms (before he had any) and self isolated at the family home having travelled there by private car.

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Old 18th October 2020, 04:22 AM   #1685
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Do you really think that driving 200 miles by private car and then self isolating for two weeks in the family home (where the only breach was the drive and it is arguable that this was allowable under the childcare exemption). Is the same as flying 4 thousand miles by private jet, going round a crowded Whitehouse reception not wearing a mask, flying back and then not self isolating and going out to a bar where presumably he would not be wearing a mask. His somewhat pathetic comment about how he had to be swabbed to enter the Whitehouse so everything was OK is somewhat betrayed by the fact that the Whitehouse swabbing process clearly does not stop transmission of covid-19 at the Whitehouse.

I think the world faces two crises at present, Covid-19 and Global warming. Taking a flight across the Atlantic for an unnecessary attendance at a party, being photographed at a public reception not wearing a mask. Being at a large public reception. Ignoring self isolation restriction on the return to the UK.

I honestly thing TB could have been far more statesmanlike and set a good example. Not flown would have been better for the climate, he knows guys with yachts who could have sailed him across! He could have participated virtually. He could have worn his mask, and been photographed doing so. If he did travel he should have self isolated on return.

This is not a party political issue, my guess is TB is about as left wing as Cummings - people tend to become more right wing as they get older and he certainly likes hanging around with right wing politicians. But I do think TB is a smarmy money grabbing self agrandising git who has achieved nothing since leaving office apart from making himself a multi-millionaire and whose Bush-Blaire Iraq war will be remembered as one of the worst foreign policy blunders of post WW2 politics. So I would like to see him in court for this if not for waging an unnecessary war.
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Old 18th October 2020, 04:58 AM   #1686
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Do you really think that driving 200 miles by private car and then self isolating for two weeks in the family home

The family home is in London.
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Old 18th October 2020, 05:05 AM   #1687
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It's very easy to confuse "family home" and "family seat" when you are unfit to drive
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Old 18th October 2020, 05:51 AM   #1688
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
It's very easy to confuse "family home" and "family seat" when you are unfit to drive
He couldn't read the road signs.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:41 AM   #1689
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https://twitter.com/StrongerStabler/...07002114703360

Quote:
An official inquiry has confirmed that MPs did flout the 10pm bar curfew despite Tory denials. Health secretary Matt Hancock has refused to say if he was among them...even though he was seen there cracking jokes about his Covid response...
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Old 18th October 2020, 11:08 AM   #1690
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
The family home is in London.
Yes, I thought the whole "Don't travel to second homes if you have one" message was pretty clear. I personally missed the 'unless you really want to" caveat. The same also applies to Johnson btw.
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Old 18th October 2020, 12:47 PM   #1691
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But is it really a (second) home if you don't pay council tax on it?
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Old 18th October 2020, 04:25 PM   #1692
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
But is it really a (second) home if you don't pay council tax on it?
A “haven” perhaps?
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Old 19th October 2020, 12:09 AM   #1693
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Looks like the whole of Wales is going into a two weeks lockdown. Even though we live in an area with low Coronavirus incidence, IMO having a single set of rules for the whole country is less confusing. Whether it works or not is another matter entirely.

Quote:
A decision on a "short, sharp" national lockdown across Wales is due to be announced later.

First Minister Mark Drakeford is expected to make an announcement shortly after midday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54591850

As a result of the government's mishandling of Coronavirus, the UK has some of the worst Coronavirus figures AND some of the worst economic impact. Meanwhile, in contrast to the UK economy which is really struggling, the Chinese economy is recovering:

Quote:
China's economy continues its recovery from the Covid-19 pandemic according to its latest official figures.

The world's second-biggest economy saw growth of 4.9% between July and September, compared to the same quarter last year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54594877

....although all Chinese growth statistics should be taken with a huge pinch of salt.
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Old 19th October 2020, 12:31 AM   #1694
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Looks like the whole of Wales is going into a two weeks lockdown. Even though we live in an area with low Coronavirus incidence, IMO having a single set of rules for the whole country is less confusing.
On a personal note I'm glad it wasn't in force yesterday, as it would have prevented my brother-in-law Nigel's brother travelling from Pembrokeshire to Gloucestershire for the internment of Nigel's ashes in their parents' grave. He was unable to attend the funeral in April because of the pandemic, having to miss this brief service too would have been a bitter blow.
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Old 19th October 2020, 03:00 AM   #1695
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£12 billion on Dido Harding's test and trace and they're sending people to test centres that don't even exist.

People sent to non-existent Covid test centre in Sevenoaks https://theguardian.com/world/2020/o...e-in-sevenoaks
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Old 19th October 2020, 03:05 AM   #1696
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
£12 billion on Dido Harding's test and trace and they're sending people to test centres that don't even exist.

People sent to non-existent Covid test centre in Sevenoaks https://theguardian.com/world/2020/o...e-in-sevenoaks
....and this for something as "simple" as test and trace where the NHS/PHE already had plenty of relevant experience.

Imagine how badly the government will botch the IT and processes around Brexit which is far more complicated, far wider ranging and where the price of failure is even greater.
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Old 19th October 2020, 03:12 AM   #1697
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
£12 billion on Dido Harding's test and trace and they're sending people to test centres that don't even exist.

People sent to non-existent Covid test centre in Sevenoaks https://theguardian.com/world/2020/o...e-in-sevenoaks
It's like they're not even bothering to hide it anymore. Johnson might as well let the BBC film him cavorting with his chums in a swimming pool full of £50 notes. At the very least get him a medal festooned uniform and fleet of gold Rolls Royces, if were going to act like a banana republic we might as well look the part.
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Old 19th October 2020, 03:14 AM   #1698
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
It's like they're not even bothering to hide it anymore. Johnson might as well let the BBC film him cavorting with his chums in a swimming pool full of £50 notes. At the very least get him a medal festooned uniform and fleet of gold Rolls Royces, if were going to act like a banana republic we might as well look the part.
More likely €100 notes, banana republic dictators like hard, rather than local, currency.
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Old 19th October 2020, 03:52 AM   #1699
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Just saw some idiot local politician complaining that a circuit-breaker would ‘just delay the problem’. Well, first that’s what it’s supposed to do, as with many of the other restrictions, until we have a vaccine or some other way to deal with the virus, and second, you simply don’t understand what ‘exponential growth’ means if you think stopping the spread and reducing the incidence of infection is merely delaying the same number of casualties.
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Old 19th October 2020, 04:06 AM   #1700
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This week's Inside Science had a damning report on the UK's test and trace:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000ncp8

The word "fragmented" kept coming up when comparing the UK to the other countries.

I suppose it makes a difference from More or Less pointing out the novel way the figures have been fudged in the particular week it had been broadcast (most episodes since May as far as I can recall)
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Old 19th October 2020, 04:26 AM   #1701
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Wales in lockdown for a couple of weeks.
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Old 19th October 2020, 05:43 AM   #1702
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Wales in lockdown for a couple of weeks.
Yes. My personal view (expressed a little earlier in this thread) is that while I cannot comment on how effective this may be, having a consistent set of rules for the whole country is beneficial IMO.

Mrs Don isn't thrilled that the gym will be closed and band practice will be off the cards.

We've also got building work going on. I'm really glad that no existing walls have been knocked through
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Old 19th October 2020, 03:00 PM   #1703
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I'm old enough to remember when we looked down on the corruption in Italy/African dictatorships and laughed at how it couldn't happen here in the UK.
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This morning Government published details of a further £81m contract awarded to PPE Medpro Limited (it had already received a £112m contract) a new £100 company with no obvious qualification to supply PPE beyond an association with big Tory donors. https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NO...:EN:HTML&src=0
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Old 20th October 2020, 12:08 AM   #1704
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
£12 billion on Dido Harding's test and trace and they're sending people to test centres that don't even exist.

People sent to non-existent Covid test centre in Sevenoaks https://theguardian.com/world/2020/o...e-in-sevenoaks
The article talks about one incorrect testing location. Were there more?

Quote:
A Department of Health and Social Care spokesperson said: “We are aware of an issue with an incorrect testing location in Sevenoaks. This issue has now been resolved and people are being redirected to the correct site.

“NHS Test and Trace is providing tests at the unprecedented scale of more than 270,000 tests per day nationally and we are on track to achieve capacity for 500,000 tests a day by the end of October.’’
Yesterday 306,893 tests were processed, for a total of over 27 million cumulative tests. Perhaps they won't reach their target of 500,000 tests per day by the end of October, but that is no reason for extreme cynicism and inflated claims of failure.

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer
It's like they're not even bothering to hide it anymore.
Hide what? That perfection isn't guaranteed no matter how much money is spent? You may quibble about the cost or talk about failures in other areas, but the testing is being done at a good rate.

I see now why the UK is having so much trouble dealing to the virus. It's not just the government, but the people are not taking it seriously. Being a cynic isn't helping. Accept that the government's response won't be perfect, and remember who the real is enemy is here. If everyone had a positive attitude and just got the job done you would be in a much better position and feel happier about it.
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Old 20th October 2020, 02:00 AM   #1705
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Hide what? That perfection isn't guaranteed no matter how much money is spent?

The direction of public funding to Tory supporters and friends.

https://goodlawproject.org/case/procurement-case/
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Old 20th October 2020, 02:26 AM   #1706
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
The direction of public funding to Tory supporters and friends.

https://goodlawproject.org/case/procurement-case/
Yep, this. That so many of these contracts have not be properly fulfilled, even in some that had unprecedented payments upfront (presumably because the companies had no manufacturing of their own, no cash to purchase the supplies they'd contracted to provide and no history to get them on credit) and that the public appear to be overpaying based on the government's own figures is just another layer on top of the apparent problem in how these contracts are being assigned.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:22 AM   #1707
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Nadhim Zahawi tells the BBC that it is not just as simple as “writing a big cheque” to pay for free school meals over the course of half term.

What it is simple to write a big cheque for. £100bn for Operation Bullshot, £12bn for failing Test & Trace, £3bn for PPE that doesn’t work.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:25 AM   #1708
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Nadhim Zahawi tells the BBC that it is not just as simple as “writing a big cheque” to pay for free school meals over the course of half term.

What it is simple to write a big cheque for. £100bn for Operation Bullshot, £12bn for failing Test & Trace, £3bn for PPE that doesn’t work.
Well yes, the wrong sort of people would benefit from free school meals.
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:44 AM   #1709
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Covid-19: First UK airport coronavirus testing begins

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1318336261002874880

What's the date again?


This is an optional test costing £80 for those leaving the UK.
Boris is really clamping down on this Covid thing!!!
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Old 20th October 2020, 03:58 AM   #1710
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Covid-19: First UK airport coronavirus testing begins

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1318336261002874880

What's the date again?


This is an optional test costing £80 for those leaving the UK.
Boris is really clamping down on this Covid thing!!!
To be honest (and selfish), that's something that could be of use to Mrs Don. Her father is seriously ill with leukaemia and has had a couple of strokes which have paralysed him on his right side. At the moment there's nothing that's immediately life-threatening but if he takes a turn for the worse then she might want to go to the US to be with him.

At the moment that would involve a 2 week quarantine stateside which could mean the whole trip would be pointless, followed by another 2 weeks when she gets home.

If these tests are effective and quick (big ifs IMO) then maybe she could be with her dad should the need arise.
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Old 20th October 2020, 04:22 AM   #1711
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Well yes, the wrong sort of people would benefit from free school meals.
Obviously, I mean if you can't arrange your trust funds to feed your kids why should we help out?
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Old 20th October 2020, 06:50 AM   #1712
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Obviously, I mean if you can't arrange your trust funds to feed your kids why should we help out?
I blame the children, why didn't they simply choose to be born to millionaire parents?
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Old 20th October 2020, 08:44 AM   #1713
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A further 21,331 coronavirus cases in the UK have been announced by the government, taking the UK's total to 762,542.

The official figures also announce a further 241 deaths.

These include 213 in England, 15 in Scotland, 10 in Wales and three in Northern Ireland.
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Old 20th October 2020, 09:02 AM   #1714
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Meanwhile the government demonstrates once again its complete inability to negotiate.

Quote:
The failure to agree a £65m package of support will mean a "winter of hardship" for Greater Manchester if tier three measures are imposed, the region's mayor has said.

Andy Burnham said tighter measures "would be certain to increase levels of poverty, homelessness and hardship".

He added ministers "walked away" from negotiations over aid earlier today.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54617898

I'm sure that Andy Burnham was driving a hard deal on behalf of the people of Manchester but then again as an ex-mayor of London I would have thought that Boris Johnson would have understood that and made the necessary accommodations to come to a mutually acceptable outcome.

It seems that the government's approach is simply to attempt to rule by diktat and if someone with devolved power has the temerity to fight their corner then the government storms off in high dudgeon and/or accuses them of being disloyal, unpatriotic or racist.
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Old 20th October 2020, 09:19 AM   #1715
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
A further 21,331 coronavirus cases in the UK have been announced by the government, taking the UK's total to 762,542.

The official figures also announce a further 241 deaths.

These include 213 in England, 15 in Scotland, 10 in Wales and three in Northern Ireland.
A number of my right wing Facebook acquaintances are bemoaning the upcoming lockdown in Wales saying it's disproportionate given the current low number of deaths and that Monmouthshire is comparatively low risk so we should be a special case.

I disagree because:
  • The whole of Wales being on lockdown means the rules are clear to everyone
  • It engenders a feeling of "all being in it together" instead of one rule for those of us living in the leafy shires and another for the poor ******* in The Valleys
  • Monmouthshire's infection rate is growing alarmingly. A few weeks ago Newport was put into enhanced measures. Our current rate now is higher than theirs and higher than when they went into.
  • Hospitalisation and death statistics trail infections by weeks. We found out in March and April that if deaths start to spike, it's already far too late to get infection under control
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Old 20th October 2020, 10:38 AM   #1716
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To put things into perspective, the £22 million the government is providing to support businesses in Greater Manchester during an actual pandemic is £30 million less than Boris spent on a bridge that doesn't exist in London
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Old 20th October 2020, 12:56 PM   #1717
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£7000 = day rate for a Test & Trace management consultant.

£8 = amount per head for people of Manchester.
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Old 20th October 2020, 01:38 PM   #1718
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The good news for Johnson is that people in proud northern cities are not ones to hold a grudge.
You can read all about it in the Sun newspaper next time you are in Liverpool.
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Old 20th October 2020, 02:01 PM   #1719
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The good news for Johnson is that people in proud northern cities are not ones to hold a grudge.
You can read all about it in the Sun newspaper next time you are in Liverpool.
Many of us here will get the reference, some won't

But the Tory vote in Manchester will have taken quite a hit, and I'm so sad about that.
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Old 20th October 2020, 02:15 PM   #1720
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The good news for Johnson is that people in proud northern cities are not ones to hold a grudge.
You can read all about it in the Sun newspaper next time you are in Liverpool.
He did promise that he’d repay the ‘loaned’ votes, folk just forgot to ask in what way he would repay them. Once again those voting for the face eating leopard allied with the scorpion party are surprised that the leopard has ate their face and they’ve been stung by the scorpion.
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