Continuation Covid-19 and Politics pt 2

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

From the available information, I would guess country roads with no pavements, which may be dangerous to walk on.

What special consideration? You seem to be making up your own rules, and expecting other people to know and follow them.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national...ome#exercising

So stay at home!!
As I say, it's not a game to see how much you can get away with.

Stay at home, stop the spread and then we can go for walks.
A lot of people haven't either complied with or taken the lockdown seriously.
It shouldn't need loots of rules, just stay the **** at home.

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

You stay indoors if you want to, that's your prerogative. But going outside for a walk in the open air with one other person is allowed.

Not the point.

Don't go for walks in the open air with one person!

Stay the **** at home.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

So stay at home!!
As I say, it's not a game to see how much you can get away with.

Following the rules and engaging in a very low risk activity is not "getting away" with anything.

Quote:

A lot of people haven't either complied with or taken the lockdown seriously.

No doubt; focus your rage on them, not people who are actually complying.

Quote:

It shouldn't need loots of rules, just stay the **** at home.

Not everyone can cope with that without fresh air, exercise or contact with other people. I'm pretty stable, generally, but my mental health has been affected, and several people I know have been badly affected by depression.

[zooterkin]

There's been a change in the way the Covid tracking app defines 'close contact' for the purpose of tracking. Previously, it was a continuous 15 minute period spent within 2m of another person; it's been updated to be a total of 15 minutes spent within 2m of another person over a 24 hour period.

If someone using the app reports a positive test, anyone with whom they've been in close contact within the period they're likely to have been infectious will be notified they need to isolate and be tested.

The update is based on a better understanding of how exposure to the virus works.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Did you see the Welsh food package? It goes to show that this was probably due to a few individuals trying to spread themselves too thinly.

I disagree, Compass have plenty of form for stiffing their customers badly. IMO this is their SOP.

[Carrot Flower King]

More on the "volunteer army" BS: I've had a reply from my local acute trust, who aren't recruiting volunteers.

So, where the **** is this "army", who the **** are recruiting, given that SJA aren't and local acute trusts aren't? Or is it yet another government lie?

Edited by Agatha:

Edited for rule 10. In the public sections, please spell all swear words correctly with no substitute characters and without 'The Good Place' style changes, so that the autocensor can catch them.

[Carrot Flower King]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

So stay at home!!
As I say, it's not a game to see how much you can get away with.

Stay at home, stop the spread and then we can go for walks.
A lot of people haven't either complied with or taken the lockdown seriously.
It shouldn't need loots of rules, just stay the **** at home.

Which, as I pointed out, I HAVE BEEN DOING: now take your anger somewhere else, like the liars in government.

After 10 months of doing naff all seeing a bit of fresh air, within the rules, might be a pleasant change...

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

More on the "volunteer army" BS: I've had a reply from my local acute trust, who aren't recruiting volunteers.

So, where the **** is this "army", who the **** are recruiting, given that SJA aren't and local acute trusts aren't? Or is it yet another government lie?

We will now have 24/7 vaccination centres - I know because Johnson has said it will be so, and lo’ the lord god did look down and say “I can’t work bloody miracles you know!”

PMQ live blog on Guardian site:

.....Johnson confirms government will open 24/7 vaccination centres

Sir Keir Starmer welcomes the announcement that 24/7 vaccine centres will be opened. He proposed this in a speech on Monday. When will they open, and will they be available for members of the public?

Johnson says these will be rolled out as soon as possible. More details will be given by Matt Hancock, he says.

Last Updated: 12:05 Wednesday, 13 January 2021
23m ago

[Rolfe]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Not the point.

Don't go for walks in the open air with one person!

Stay the **** at home.

Have you suddenly discovered that it's possible to catch this virus in the open air from someone who is more than six feet away? If so, when do you publish?

This is the sort of mean-spirited nastiness that's poisoning public life at the moment. Self-righteous gauleiters trying to prevent people doing even the small amount of personal interaction that's allowed, even when it poses zero risk of transmission.

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Originally Posted by Tolls

Not entirely, as part of the argument is that these food parcels were supposed to ensure the amount and quality of food supplied as compared to a £30 voucher, which the manipulative bastards in the Tory party and elements of the press liked to claim (with no evidence whatsoever) would be spent on hookers and blow.

That's part of the reason for highlighting as they have done.

It also shows, quite nicely, that the government decision to hand over this money to a company to deliver the goods is not in the slightest bit efficient or effective.

I agree with the argument that doing it this way is not necessarily efficient or effective compared to just giving them the money but you cannot give a company a budget of £30 to administer and deliver a food parcel and expect to receive £30 worth of food.

I'm not defending these specific parcels as they do appear to be taking the piss to some extent but I think the comparisons being made are false. Even the council that has delivered better food parcels has done so no doubt using salaried staff and not factored that cost in. They can do that because they are a council funded by taxpayers. A private entity cannot.

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

So stay at home!!
As I say, it's not a game to see how much you can get away with.

Stay at home, stop the spread and then we can go for walks.
A lot of people haven't either complied with or taken the lockdown seriously.
It shouldn't need loots of rules, just stay the **** at home.

This is not the advice that is being given to people though. It might be what is needed but you can't blame people for following the advice they are being given by the 'experts'

[Darat]

And it being totally unclear what is advice and what is the law.

The UK government not making the law more or less match their advice in England is yet another example of their incompetence.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal

I agree with the argument that doing it this way is not necessarily efficient or effective compared to just giving them the money but you cannot give a company a budget of £30 to administer and deliver a food parcel and expect to receive £30 worth of food.

I'm not defending these specific parcels as they do appear to be taking the piss to some extent but I think the comparisons being made are false. Even the council that has delivered better food parcels has done so no doubt using salaried staff and not factored that cost in. They can do that because they are a council funded by taxpayers. A private entity cannot.

The supermarkets can do that.....

[Rolfe]

Originally Posted by AGG

I agree with the argument that doing it this way is not necessarily efficient or effective compared to just giving them the money but you cannot give a company a budget of £30 to administer and deliver a food parcel and expect to receive £30 worth of food.

I'm not defending these specific parcels as they do appear to be taking the piss to some extent but I think the comparisons being made are false. Even the council that has delivered better food parcels has done so no doubt using salaried staff and not factored that cost in. They can do that because they are a council funded by taxpayers. A private entity cannot.

First, do you know that they were given only £30 to allow them to provide £30 worth of food?

Second, even if that were the case, it's quite possible that using the £30 to buy in wholesale bulk would still allow the cost of aliquoting to be absorbed and the company to deliver food equivalent to a value of £30 retail.

[Darat]

1564 - as much as it is terrible it is beyond disgusting that many of those deaths were avoidable.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Darat

1325 deaths

We are starting to see the result of mixing at Christmas.

Originally Posted by The Don

Sadly, it'll be another 2-3 weeks until we see the peak IMO

I so wish we were wrong and had to eat a hat with a crow on it.

[Darat]

And another

Exams cancelled in England or were they?

GCSE and A-level pupils could sit mini exams to aid grading

“... In addition, I would like to explore the possibility of providing externally set tasks or papers, in order that teachers can draw on this resource to support their assessments of students. ...”

What something like say exams?

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Darat

1564 - as much as it is terrible it is beyond disgusting that many of those deaths were avoidable.

At least the figure for new cases seems to be going down at last (in defiance of one Facebook 'friend' who was posting just the other day that lockdown has no effect).

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by The Don

I disagree, Compass have plenty of form for stiffing their customers badly. IMO this is their SOP.

Indeed and Starmer's question in the Commons quoted the Government guidelines which was almost identical except for a couple of tins.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by The Don

Sadly, it'll be another 2-3 weeks until we see the peak IMO

Yep.

Quote:

“But now the percentage of positive tests in the Thames Gateway area – north Kent, east London and south Essex – is falling a bit, and the moving average of new cases seems to be flattening out, though I’d like a couple more days to confirm that. The rest of the country may take another couple of weeks until they reach a turning point.”

...

NHS Providers chief executive, Chris Hopson, said on Tuesday it was “pretty clear” the Covid-19 infection rate was not going to go down as quickly as it did during the first wave because of the new strain, and so peak demand on hospitals might not be reached until “early to mid-February”.

...

Marriott said he expected deaths to peak at some time in February. He said: “I would expect to see a five-week lag between cases and deaths, so if cases peak now we’ll see deaths peak in about five weeks’ time.

“How high will that peak be? The current doubling rates for deaths are around 30 days so that could mean peak daily deaths about double where we are today"

[banquetbear]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

So stay at home!!
As I say, it's not a game to see how much you can get away with.

Stay at home, stop the spread and then we can go for walks.
A lot of people haven't either complied with or taken the lockdown seriously.
It shouldn't need loots of rules, just stay the **** at home.

...I live in New Zealand, we've only had 25 deaths and no community transmission since November.

We stayed at home. and we eliminated the virus.

But you seem to be missing the point. One of the things that our Director-General of Health said that stuck with me was "The virus is the problem, not the people." Human nature if fundamentally chaotic. We are predictably unpredictable.

In NZ we stayed at home because from the outset our government had consistent, objective rules in place, had science-based consistent messaging from the top, because we were told what would happen if we stayed at home and we saw what they said would happen match what happened in reality.

We had an endgame. A light at the end of the tunnel.

What is the endgame right now in the UK? What's the plan? How long do people have to "stay at home?" How long are people ABLE to just "stay at home?"

The people aren't the problem. The people are acting predictably in the face of incompetent governance. "Schools are safe to open, no they are not. Herd immunity great! But that isn't our strategy, even though it is. Eat out to help out...because what could go wrong?" Why aren't they staying home? There are hundreds of different reasons, many of them perfectly understandable. How can you get them to stay at home? IMHO, nothing short of revolution.

The people aren't the problem. The virus is the problem. The government is the problem.

To get people to stay home you need consistent, responsible messaging based on the science from the very top. You need an endgame. You need to make sure everyone from small businesses to the person on the street is financially secure. You need to be working to some sort of a strategy.

But the people in power don't have a clue. The people in power are dangerous. The people in power have lost the trust of the public. So what were you expecting to happen?

Should people stay at home? Of course they should. And they did. And many still are. But the government has failed. The institutions have failed. The institutions are corrupt. The people have been lied to, they've been fed misinformation on a daily basis. And there is no end in sight. The people aren't to blame. They don't deserve your ire.

[The Don]

Yes, I agree, the UK government hasn't provided the kind of leadership required. If they had taken steps which would have been unpopular in the short term, they would likely have gained in the long term.

Mixed news for those hoping for "natural" herd immunity.

Quote:

Most people who have had Covid-19 are protected from catching it again for at least five months, a study led by Public Health England shows.

Past infection was linked to an 83% lower risk of getting the virus, compared with those who had never had Covid-19, scientists found.

But experts warn some people do catch Covid-19 again - and can infect others.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55651518

Catching Covid does provide immunity, but not 100% of the time and not for very long.

If the vaccination only provides 5 months of immunity then that's a blow for those who hope it will be a panacea.

[The Don]

British (English ?) entitlement strikes again !

Quote:

A British tourist has been blamed for a spike in coronavirus cases that led officials to cancel Switzerland's famous Lauberhorn ski race.

The resort of Wengen, where the race is held, had recorded only 10 cases of the virus by mid-December.

But the number soon began to rise and many cases have since been linked to the new highly infectious variant of Covid-19 first identified in the UK.

At least 27 cases are connected to one British tourist, contact tracers say.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55645396

Sorry Switzerland

[The Don]

....and in a nutshell, this is why we're doomed to failure

Quote:

Coach and tour operators have seen an unexpected growth in bookings in the last fortnight.

Industry figures call it growing "vaccine confidence" about 2021.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654127

The vaccine is there to try and save lives, not to allow you to jet off on your hollybobs Boomer !

IMO the movement of the (we) over-50s around the country and internationally will completely undermine the whole vaccine process. Immunity is only 95% which means that there'll be plenty of carriers. Sure they, and their over-50 friends, may not get sick but they'll bring back new mutations from around the globe and infect the rest of us.

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Originally Posted by The Don

....and in a nutshell, this is why we're doomed to failure



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654127

The vaccine is there to try and save lives, not to allow you to jet off on your hollybobs Boomer !

IMO the movement of the (we) over-50s around the country and internationally will completely undermine the whole vaccine process. Immunity is only 95% which means that there'll be plenty of carriers. Sure they, and their over-50 friends, may not get sick but they'll bring back new mutations from around the globe and infect the rest of us.

When Ryanair are running ads saying 'the vaccine is coming, book your holidays now' what do you expect? I think ads like that should be banned.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by The Don

....and in a nutshell, this is why we're doomed to failure



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654127

The vaccine is there to try and save lives, not to allow you to jet off on your hollybobs Boomer !

IMO the movement of the (we) over-50s around the country and internationally will completely undermine the whole vaccine process. Immunity is only 95% which means that there'll be plenty of carriers. Sure they, and their over-50 friends, may not get sick but they'll bring back new mutations from around the globe and infect the rest of us.

I doubt this is true.
Vaccination is not a yoyo like lockdowns, and are meant to progressively lower the R number without the upticks.
Someone may better explain if I have this right.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Samson

I doubt this is true.
Vaccination is not a yoyo like lockdowns, and are meant to progressively lower the R number without the upticks.
Someone may better explain if I have this right.

Vaccination is only part of the solution, cutting down on the movement of people is also a major part - not least so that the percentage who don't have immunity (because they haven't been vaccinated or the vaccine has not conferred immunity) don't come into contact with people who are infected.

[Pixel42]

I have several holidays booked for this year, mostly postponed from last year. The first is a week in a self catered apartment in Wales in April. I will drive there alone, do one supermarket shop and go for walks and bike rides - exactly what I'd be doing if I stayed here, in other words. The resort deep clean the apartments between visitors. Provided there are no official rules to prevent it I see no real argument for not going, especially if I've been vaccinated by then.

[Darat]

God I wish I could believe in god right now, I’d be able to pray!

Yesterday Johnson was asked before a committee of MPs what he was doing to stop the Brazilian variant coming into the UK, he was totally unprepared for the question and didn’t have a clue - but he knew they were doing something...

Lo and behold we find today is the first time they’ve discussed it and they are trying to work out what they can do.... so he lied yesterday to the committee, it could already be here and the idea of immediately stopping flights from Brazil seems to have escaped the combined brains of our government...

As they say you really couldn’t make this up - quote below is from a breaking news alert from the Independent:

Quote:

Ministers have met to discuss “urgent measures” to restrict any spread of the Brazilian coronavirus variant to the UK, Downing Street has said.

Boris Johnson was caught out yesterday when he was unable to tell a committee of senior parliamentarians what steps he planned to take to protect the UK from the new strain, which is believed to be more infective than the original Covid-19 virus.

Reports suggest that ministers are considering a ban on travel from not only Brazil but also neighbouring countries in South America where the mutated variant may already have spread.

Mr Johnson’s official spokesman told reporters that the issue was discussed at the government’s Coronavirus Operations (CO) today.

“Ministers have met this morning to consider urgent measures to reduce the potential spread to the UK of the Brazilian variant,” he said.

An announcement is expected to follow the meeting.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

I have several holidays booked for this year, mostly postponed from last year. The first is a week in a self catered apartment in Wales in April. I will drive there alone, do one supermarket shop and go for walks and bike rides - exactly what I'd be doing if I stayed here, in other words. The resort deep clean the apartments between visitors. Provided there are no official rules to prevent it I see no real argument for not going, especially if I've been vaccinated by then.

And it will be raining cats and dogs so you’ll end up not going out!

[Darat]

I’ve been trying to be optimistic but I just can’t help thinking they are going to totally screw-up the chance the vaccines give us at pretty much eradicating the virus.

[Wudang]

Originally Posted by Darat

brains of our government...

Objection! Facts not in evidence.

[Captain_Swoop]

BBC Politics
Free school meals will not be extended over half term in England
"These are battles which should not have to be repeatedly fought," says teachers' union
http://bbc.in/38IfP9l

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Originally Posted by Darat

God I wish I could believe in god right now, I’d be able to pray!

Yesterday Johnson was asked before a committee of MPs what he was doing to stop the Brazilian variant coming into the UK, he was totally unprepared for the question and didn’t have a clue - but he knew they were doing something...

Lo and behold we find today is the first time they’ve discussed it and they are trying to work out what they can do.... so he lied yesterday to the committee, it could already be here and the idea of immediately stopping flights from Brazil seems to have escaped the combined brains of our government...

As they say you really couldn’t make this up - quote below is from a breaking news alert from the Independent:

I'd rather we worried about the UK variant that is here rather than getting het up about those pesky foreigners yet again.

Given we are managing to record more daily deaths than Brazil (even though its 3.5 times our population and nobody there is really giving a crap about COVID regs) it would appear that it is Brazil that should be banning flights from the UK rather than vice versa.

[Captain_Swoop]

Sometimes you have to call something what it is.
Tory scum.

Schools in England told not to provide free school meals at half-term
DfE guidance sets government on course for fresh dispute over children going hungry during holidays
theguardian.com

[Pixel42]

Originally Posted by Darat

And it will be raining cats and dogs so you’ll end up not going out!

Funny you should say that, that's what happened the last time I holidayed in Wales.

And the time before, come to think of it.

The triumph of hope over experience, I think it's called.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Funny you should say that, that's what happened the last time I holidayed in Wales.

And the time before, come to think of it.

The triumph of hope over experience, I think it's called.

It’s Wales - it is always raining. Those photos you see with blue skies? All photoshopped.

[Rolfe]

Originally Posted by Darat

I’ve been trying to be optimistic but I just can’t help thinking they are going to totally screw-up the chance the vaccines give us at pretty much eradicating the virus.

My thoughts also, although I'm getting pelters in the other thread for having the temerity to believe we should even bother trying to eliminate the virus at community level. It's impossible apparently (even though we already did it once, and without any vaccine at that) so we should just be reconciled to the infection always being present.

Like polio was last century, or even measles come to that. We haven't made them extinct worldwide yet so obviously local elimination at national level can't be done and we shouldn't even have tried.

[Rolfe]

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal

I'd rather we worried about the UK variant that is here rather than getting het up about those pesky foreigners yet again.

Given we are managing to record more daily deaths than Brazil (even though its 3.5 times our population and nobody there is really giving a crap about COVID regs) it would appear that it is Brazil that should be banning flights from the UK rather than vice versa.

Exactly.

[Rolfe]

I'm in the process of trying to book a trail ride in the western Highlands for early August, although I'm not 100% confident it will go ahead. Obviously the activity is safe all day, becaise you're out of doors and separated by the size of the horses you're riding, but it does involve being transported like sardines in a Land Rover sometimes, and staying at small country hotels and guest houses.

I could manage these last by wearing one of my FFP3 masks in the Land Rover and indoors, taking my meals separately, and paying the single room supplement. But really, if these precautions are necessary by then the entire thing should be called off - and it may well be.