Why many Sanders supporters will once again be voting for Trump this election

MrFliop

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MrFliop
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Dec 4, 2012
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I know, you’re thinking how could any person could support Trump and Sanders indifferently?

Well I know a lot of Sanders supporters both in person and on the internet who were also secret Trump voters. I too supported Sanders in the 2016 primary but voted for Trump in the general election. I won’t do it again this year and I’ll give the reason why shortly, but.......

Not all Bernie voters are Democratic Socialists. Many simply wanted him because he represents change. And, like it or not, Donald Trump represents change, whether in a good way or bad. And as long as the narrative is played that the establishment is doing everything it can to stop “outsider” president Trump then there will inevitably be a (much larger than you can imagine) portion of Bernie voters who secretly support him, even if they don’t talk about it in person.

Also another reason is their belief in accelerationism. Sanders’ supporters are less interested in his socialist policies than they are of a political revolution that his presidency could bring about. Their thinking goes that if he cannot get elected the next best thing to bring about “the revolution” is to have someone unbelievably awful like Trump in office for 8 years.

There was even a small faction of Sanders supporters in 2016 (including me) who believed that a Clinton loss could give Bernie a second chance in 2020. Well, that didn’t go according to plan did it? Still I’ve seen some fools on social media after Bernie dropped out this Spring urging fellow supporters to deny Biden victory in November to give Sanders yet another shot in 2024. Nope! Not doing that! I’m done with this!

That is the sad reality! Bernie’s supporters are so eager for change that some will do everything possible to re-elect Trump this year, and there is NOTHING that their fellow liberals can say or do to change their minds.
 
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I'm not sure what these cynics/idealists expect out of their government at all at this point.

They aren't playing their cards anymore; they're constantly folding until they get their One Perfect Candidate, and I fear they won't budge even if we are 30 years into the worst of global warming and on the brink of dictatorship.
 
Venom said:
I'm not sure what these cynics/idealists expect out of their government at all at this point.

They aren't playing their cards anymore; they're constantly folding until they get their One Perfect Candidate, and I fear they won't budge even if we are 30 years into the worst of global warming and on the brink of dictatorship.
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The US is already on the treshold of dictatorship. It might even be near an irreversible tipping point, like we are with the climate crisis. As are several countries in Europe, at least one of which seems to have tipped already :( . I genuenly believe that if Trump wins in November, it's over and out for the American republic as we know it, along with minority rights, access to abortion, open borders, and relations with the free world.
 
The polls I’ve seen indicate that over 80% of Sanders supporters say they will vote, if without enthusiasm, for Biden. e.g.:
https://www.suffolk.edu/news-featur...percent-of-sanders-backers-wont-support-biden

I don’t think they will be a significant source of Trump support this time (4% of those polled).

But if one suggests they are lying to the pollsters? But of course this also allows the possibility that they are lying to the OP and they are strong Biden supporters...
 
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MrFliop said:
I know, you’re thinking how could any person could support Trump and Sanders indifferently?

Well I know a lot of Sanders supporters both in person and on the internet who were also secret Trump voters. I too supported Sanders in the 2016 primary but voted for Trump in the general election. I won’t do it again this year and I’ll give the reason why shortly, but.......

Not all Bernie voters are Democratic Socialists. Many simply wanted him because he represents change. And, like it or not, Donald Trump represents change, whether in a good way or bad. And as long as the narrative is played that the establishment is doing everything it can to stop “outsider” president Trump then there will inevitably be a (much larger than you can imagine) portion of Bernie voters who secretly support him, even if they don’t talk about it in person.

Also another reason is their belief in accelerationism. Sanders’ supporters are less interested in his socialist policies than they are of a political revolution that his presidency could bring about. Their thinking goes that if he cannot get elected the next best thing to bring about “the revolution” is to have someone unbelievably awful like Trump in office for 8 years.

There was even a small faction of Sanders supporters in 2016 (including me) who believed that a Clinton loss could give Bernie a second chance in 2020. Well, that didn’t go according to plan did it? Still I’ve seen some fools on social media after Bernie dropped out this Spring urging fellow supporters to deny Biden victory in November to give Sanders yet another shot in 2024. Nope! Not doing that! I’m done with this!

That is the sad reality! Bernie’s supporters are so eager for change that some will do everything possible to re-elect Trump this year, and there is NOTHING that their fellow liberals can say or do to change their minds.
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The kind of extremism you describe among some Bernie supporters is a sad reality. The irony is that their extremism and right wing extremism are just two sides of the coin.
 
This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company.

There may be one in a thousand Sanders supporters who will vote for Trump.....if that.

Trump has proven himself not only tobe the Billionaire's boy handing tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, doling out favors like it's Christmas to his friends and tearing apart and lining his pocket. Calling Trump corrupt is a massive understatement.

He opposed making Healthcare affordable for all. All he ever did was try and destroy it. Anyone who says they are or were Sanders supporters and says they are voting for Trump are almost certainly liars.

Then there is the simple fact that Trump is totally incompetent and not up to the job. His failures on the International stage are only overshadowed by his domestic failures.

Putin's Bitch is responsible for a 100,000 deaths and that figure will likely double January. COVID alone is enough to kick his ass to the curb. Finally how he has dealt with the systemic racism and racial divides is nothing short of criminal

Sanders supporters voting for Trump the Orange Turd? :rolleyes: That's a good one. :dl::dl::dl: :rolleyes:
 
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acbytesla said:
This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company.

There may be one in a thousand Sanders supporters who will vote for Trump.....if that.
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You clearly missed the post above you that showed a Suffolk University poll that showed it is actually about 1 in 25!
 
PhantomWolf said:
You clearly missed the post above you that showed a Suffolk University poll that showed it is actually about 1 in 25!
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Still 1 in 25 is insignificant. That's like a quarter point when you add in the rest of the electorate. Right now, Trump is down by 5 in Texas!
 
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Giordano said:
The polls I’ve seen indicate that over 80% of Sanders supporters say they will vote, if without enthusiasm, for Biden. e.g.:
https://www.suffolk.edu/news-featur...percent-of-sanders-backers-wont-support-biden

I don’t think they will be a significant source of Trump support this time (4% of those polled).

But if one suggests they are lying to the pollsters? But of course this also allows the possibility that they are lying to the OP and they are strong Biden supporters...
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Other polls also say Trump would get about 15% from Sanders supporters. Roughly the same share he got in 2016.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...orters-vote-trump-over-biden-poll/2936124001/

Also even if the Sanders supporters who don’t support Biden vote mostly third party instead of Trump, it would still help him.
 
Also, a 20% abstain vote from Sanders supporters could be harmful to Biden in key battle ground states.

Let me give some examples:

Traditionally incumbents receive less votes during primaries compared to competative primaries.

Yet even though Biden was unopposed by this time he got LESS votes than Trump in the Ohio primary with Sanders receiving 16% despite the fact that he dropped out 3 weeks earlier.

OH Dem Primary
Biden: 647,284
Sanders: 149,683
Others: 97,416
Total: 894,383

OH GOP Primary (Trump was unopposed on ballot)
Trump: 682,845

Then in the Pennsylvania primary, almost 2 months after Sanders withdrawal, Biden got slightly more votes than Trump with Sanders getting about 18%.

PA Dem Primary
Biden: 1,264,624
Sanders: 387,834
Others: 43,050
Total: 1,595,508

PA GOP Primary
Trump: 1,043,311
Others: 88,902
Total: 1,132,213

It’s possible that those voting for Sanders didn’t get the memo that he dropped out (despite being weeks and months after). Or it’s a preview of the actual election results, with the majority of democratic voters consolidating around one candidate but a small percentage of Sanders supporters not voting for the nominee who in return gets less votes than Trump. And remember incumbents usually less turnout during their primaries.
 
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OH and PA are the only swing states that held primaries AFTER both parties had ONE nominee. But I’ll post the results of the other states to show how crucial Sanders voters are.

FL Dem Primary
Biden: 1,077,375
Sanders: 397,311
Others: 264,528
Total: 1,739,214

FL GOP Primary
Trump: 1,162,984
Others: 76,955
Total: 1,239,939

NC Dem Primary
Biden: 572,271
Sanders: 322,645
Others: 437,466
Total: 1,332,382

NC GOP Primary
Trump: 750,600
Others: 51,927
Total: 802,527

WI Dem Primary
Biden: 581,463
Sanders: 293,441
Others: 50,261
Total: 925,165

WI GOP Primary
Trump: 616,782
Others: 13,416
Total: 630,198

MI DEM Primary
Biden: 840,360
Sanders: 576,926
Others: 170,393
Total: 1,587,679

MI GOP Primary
Trump: 639,500
Others: 3,067
Total: 642,567
 
the bitter bernie bro demographic that voted for Trump out their spite is thankfully, a demographic we can all happily ignore this go around. Sanders outspent Biden massively in Texas and yet Bernie voters still felt disenfranchised by their loss but that is the false virtue of populism: they imagine they represent the "true will" of the "true people" but at the end of the day, they could really care less about who actually receives the most votes and will be sore losers.
 
MrFliop said:
Other polls also say Trump would get about 15% from Sanders supporters. Roughly the same share he got in 2016.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...orters-vote-trump-over-biden-poll/2936124001/

Also even if the Sanders supporters who don’t support Biden vote mostly third party instead of Trump, it would still help him.
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Maybe. But I strongly doubt it. I have never see anyone engender such passionate dislike as Trump. People despise him with a passion.

As his handling of the COVID pandemic gets worse and worse and the death toll continues to skyrocket, hell continue to lose support. He just found the issue he cannot pull off the headlines.
 
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MrFliop said:
Also, a 20% abstain vote from Sanders supporters could be harmful to Biden in key battle ground states.

Let me give some examples:

Traditionally incumbents receive less votes during primaries compared to competative primaries.

Yet even though Biden was unopposed by this time he got LESS votes than Trump in the Ohio primary with Sanders receiving 16% despite the fact that he dropped out 3 weeks earlier.

OH Dem Primary
Biden: 647,284
Sanders: 149,683
Others: 97,416
Total: 894,383

OH GOP Primary (Trump was unopposed on ballot)
Trump: 682,845

Then in the Pennsylvania primary, almost 2 months after Sanders withdrawal, Biden got slightly more votes than Trump with Sanders getting about 18%.

PA Dem Primary
Biden: 1,264,624
Sanders: 387,834
Others: 43,050
Total: 1,595,508

PA GOP Primary
Trump: 1,043,311
Others: 88,902
Total: 1,132,213

It’s possible that those voting for Sanders didn’t get the memo that he dropped out (despite being weeks and months after). Or it’s a preview of the actual election results, with the majority of democratic voters consolidating around one candidate but a small percentage of Sanders supporters not voting for the nominee who in return gets less votes than Trump. And remember incumbents usually less turnout during their primaries.
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Many folks voting for Sanders in PA and other late primaries were doing so as a message to Biden that they still want more progressive elements in o his platform. This was deliberate and there were a number of people advising this on social media and elsewhere. They weren’t sabatoging Biden or forgetting that Sanders suspended his campaign. They weren’t planning to vote for Trump later on, it was a message from progressive voters.
 
acbytesla said:
Maybe. But I strongly doubt it. I have never see anyone engender such passionate dislike as Trump. People despise him with a passion.
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Count me in.


As his handling of the COVID pandemic gets worse and worse and the death toll continues to skyrocket, hell continue to lose support. He just found the issue he cannot pull off the headlines.
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Trump's core support is chipping away, but like granite under a copper chisel. When it comes to it they'll cling to an existing COVID disaster with Trump rather than without.
 
MrFliop said:
....
Not all Bernie voters are Democratic Socialists. Many simply wanted him because he represents change. And, like it or not, Donald Trump represents change, whether in a good way or bad. ....
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But does he? He's been President for almost four years. He has a record. Did he bring the change the Bernie crowd hoped for? All Biden has to do is keep asking "Are you better off today than you were when I left office?" For many Americans, if not the majority, the answer is a resounding no.
 
acbytesla said:
This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company.
....
Sanders supporters voting for Trump the Orange Turd? :rolleyes: That's a good one.
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I would be willing to believe it.

Sadly, not all voters make their decision based on rational thoughts... policy, integrity, etc. Some people take a much more nihilistic attitude. They want to wreck society, and they haven't given much thought about what they want to replace it with. To such a person, Sanders and Trump are a step towards achieving that goal.
Still 1 in 25 is insignificant. That's like a quarter point when you add in the rest of the electorate.
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Keep in mind that there were other polls that show slightly different results. For example, during the primaries, an ABC/Washington Post poll showed ~15% of Sanders supporters said they would vote for Trump. (USA Today)

Near the end of the primaries, Sanders had approximately 30% support. So depending on which numbers you look at, you could be looking at between .5% and 5% of the Democrats supporting Trump.

Hopefully you're right, and it won't matter. But when you have some states being decided by less than 1%, even a few thousand lost votes could be a problem.
 
kookbreaker said:
Many folks voting for Sanders in PA and other late primaries were doing so as a message to Biden that they still want more progressive elements in o his platform.
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To get more delegates, to influence the Democratic Party’s Platform for 2020. Just like the DNC tried in 2016 when it drafted what it called “The Most Progressive Platform”. And yet 15% of Sanders supporters weren’t convinced then. How could their trust be earned this time?

Don’t get me wrong, I want Trump out. It would be even better if Biden ran and won promising to implement actual progressive policies. But how would we really believe him at his word?
 
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Segnosaur said:
I would be willing to believe it.

Sadly, not all voters make their decision based on rational thoughts... policy, integrity, etc. Some people take a much more nihilistic attitude. They want to wreck society, and they haven't given much thought about what they want to replace it with. To such a person, Sanders and Trump are a step towards achieving that goal.
Keep in mind that there were other polls that show slightly different results. For example, during the primaries, an ABC/Washington Post poll showed ~15% of Sanders supporters said they would vote for Trump. (USA Today)

Near the end of the primaries, Sanders had approximately 30% support. So depending on which numbers you look at, you could be looking at between .5% and 5% of the Democrats supporting Trump.

Hopefully you're right, and it won't matter. But when you have some states being decided by less than 1%, even a few thousand lost votes could be a problem.
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Let's hope it doesn't come down to that. But even if it did, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Anyone who would go from Sanders to Trump is bat crap crazy. They have absolutely nothing in common.

Bernie is a good man.
Trump is a terrible human being.
Bernie has been helping people for 50 years.
Trump has been conning people for 50 years.
Bernie is a Democratic Socialist.
Trump is NOT.
Bernie is anti-nuclear
Trump is pro-nuclear. (The one issue I side with Trump)
Bernie is for Universal healthcare.
Trump is trying to eliminate any health care assistance.
Bernie is for expanding the social safety net.
Trump is trying to eliminate it.
Trump stands against everything the Sanders stands for.
 
I can sort of understand what Mr. Fliop is saying, though I greatly disagree with it. Alas, there are many fools in the world, and it behooves us not to spend too much energy analyzing their delusions and errors. There will always be people who believe the wrong things and do the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

However, I hope that a sufficient number of those who supported Sanders will realize that Trump offers nothing close to what Sanders might have, and that Trump's promise of novelty was false, and also that some might remember what seems to have eluded many - Sanders (and I mean no disrespect, I like him) is not an inexperienced political outsider. He's an outsider to the Democratic party, but he's a career politician, not a failed businessman. He knows the ropes. And I hope they also remember that Sanders, radical and excitable and unconventional as he can sometimes appear, has some integrity and intelligence, qualities Trump appears not to have at all.
 
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bruto said:
I can sort of understand what Mr. Fliop is saying, though I greatly disagree with it. Alas, there are many fools in the world, and it behooves us not to spend too much energy analyzing their delusions and errors. There will always be people who believe the wrong things and do the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

However, I hope that a sufficient number of those who supported Sanders will realize that Trump offers nothing close to what Sanders might have, and that Trump's promise of novelty was false, and also that some might remember what seems to have eluded many - Sanders (and I mean no disrespect, I like him) is not an inexperienced political outsider. He's an outsider to the Democratic party, but he's a career politician, not a failed businessman. He knows the ropes. And I hope they also remember that Sanders, radical and excitable and unconventional as he can sometimes appear, has some integrity and intelligence, qualities Trump appears not to have at all.
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Trump’s universal healthcare and living wage policies will swing some away from Biden.
 
MrFliop said:
To get more delegates, to influence the Democratic Party’s Platform for 2020. Just like the DNC tried in 2016 when it drafted what it called “The Most Progressive Platform”. And yet 15% of Sanders supporters weren’t convinced then. How could their trust be earned this time?

Don’t get me wrong, I want Trump out. It would be even better if Biden ran and won promising to implement actual progressive policies. But how would we really believe him at his word?
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Progressives get so caught up in this sometimes. The primaries are long over. Get the ****** out and have enough of the right people in Congress and put pressure on Biden to enact more progressive policies.

Biden may not be anything special but like many career politicians he tends to side with whatever he finds politically expedient. He should have a hundred reasons in the House and Senate to bring progressives to the table.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
The US is already on the treshold of dictatorship. It might even be near an irreversible tipping point, like we are with the climate crisis. As are several countries in Europe, at least one of which seems to have tipped already :( . I genuenly believe that if Trump wins in November, it's over and out for the American republic as we know it, along with minority rights, access to abortion, open borders, and relations with the free world.
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Isn't that what people have been saying for 30 years?
 
kookbreaker said:
Many folks voting for Sanders in PA and other late primaries were doing so as a message to Biden that they still want more progressive elements in o his platform. This was deliberate and there were a number of people advising this on social media and elsewhere. They weren’t sabatoging Biden or forgetting that Sanders suspended his campaign. They weren’t planning to vote for Trump later on, it was a message from progressive voters.
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This. More votes for Sanders even after the campaign means more input from that wing of the party on the party platform, etc

Any Sanders voters that vote for Trump this time around are likely the same Sanders supports that voted for Trump on 2016. All that is necessary is for there to be fewer of them this time around, and I can't see how it isn't the case. In 2016, Sanders voters were angry at the DNC because of how they treated Sanders during the primary and Trump was a political unknown - that would have driven them to opt for Trump instead.
 
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Venom said:
Progressives get so caught up in this sometimes. The primaries are long over. Get the ****** out and have enough of the right people in Congress and put pressure on Biden to enact more progressive policies.

Biden may not be anything special but like many career politicians he tends to side with whatever he finds politically expedient. He should have a hundred reasons in the House and Senate to bring progressives to the table.
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Why do you think "you guys should wait until the stakes are low enough to ignore you before asking to be heard" is a compelling argument?* Isn't Trump enough of a reason to bring them to the table now? Is the progressive vote important enough to demand concessions, or small enough not to matter? You can't have it both ways.

Anyway, I don't believe the OP's straw Bernie Bros exist in any real numbers. You'll always find some weirdos to point to (Trump also has IIRC 8% of the Black vote), but I've never met anyone who supported Sanders but is voting for Trump who wasn't a right-wing troll moonlighting as a Democrat.

*[ETA] Well, other than it working so well for so long on mainstream Democrats. Don't worry guys, the GOP is totally going to work with us on a bunch of our policy bills as soon as we vote with them on this emergency matter. They even pinky promised this time!
 
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For the polling data to be that off, it would take a huge number Sanders supporters organized to lie when called. You'd need a huge number of people because only a small fraction of people ever get called for polls. I could see numbers of being a bit off with some Trump voters as they may not want to admit to planning to vote for Trump out of fear of being seen as stupid. There may have been some of that going on in 2016.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Anyway, I don't believe the OP's straw Bernie Bros exist in any real numbers. You'll always find some weirdos to point to (Trump also has IIRC 8% of the Black vote), but I've never met anyone who supported Sanders but is voting for Trump who wasn't a right-wing troll moonlighting as a Democrat.
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This!

My point exactly. Well said.




.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Why do you think "you guys should wait until the stakes are low enough to ignore you before asking to be heard" is a compelling argument?* Isn't Trump enough of a reason to bring them to the table now? Is the progressive vote important enough to demand concessions, or small enough not to matter? You can't have it both ways.
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I'm simply saying keep up pressure on Biden. He's already met with Sanders a few times. Giving up because Biden isn't your ideal candidate solves nothing. He's in a position where he'll have to address a growing progressive movement at one point or another.
 
Craig4 said:
For the polling data to be that off, it would take a huge number Sanders supporters organized to lie when called. You'd need a huge number of people because only a small fraction of people ever get called for polls. I could see numbers of being a bit off with some Trump voters as they may not want to admit to planning to vote for Trump out of fear of being seen as stupid. There may have been some of that going on in 2016.
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No. Nor do they lie to pollsters about whom they're voting for out of fear/reprisals as has been claimed. People may lie to family and friends if those are vehemently anti-Trump in order not to create problems, but not because they think they'll be seen as stupid by some anonymous pollsters. THEY don't think they're stupid and they're not embarrassed or they wouldn't be voting for Trump. And if they are, they should ask themselves why.
 
acbytesla said:
This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company.

There may be one in a thousand Sanders supporters who will vote for Trump.....if that.

Trump has proven himself not only tobe the Billionaire's boy handing tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, doling out favors like it's Christmas to his friends and tearing apart and lining his pocket. Calling Trump corrupt is a massive understatement.

He opposed making Healthcare affordable for all. All he ever did was try and destroy it. Anyone who says they are or were Sanders supporters and says they are voting for Trump are almost certainly liars.

Then there is the simple fact that Trump is totally incompetent and not up to the job. His failures on the International stage are only overshadowed by his domestic failures.

Putin's Bitch is responsible for a 100,000 deaths and that figure will likely double January. COVID alone is enough to kick his ass to the curb. Finally how he has dealt with the systemic racism and racial divides is nothing short of criminal

Sanders supporters voting for Trump the Orange Turd? :rolleyes: That's a good one. :dl::dl::dl: :rolleyes:
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Seconded!

While I can envision a very few Sanders supporters voting for Trump in a Trump/Biden race, but it would be a very few who would actually do such a thing.

Also, the OP does sound a great deal like a typical posting from a Trump supporter and/or a Russian troll factory would produce.
 
Crossbow said:
Seconded!

While I can envision a very few Sanders supporters voting for Trump in a Trump/Biden race, but it would be a very few who would actually do such a thing.

Also, the OP does sound a great deal like a typical posting from a Trump supporter and/or a Russian troll factory would produce.
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Теперь, почему вы так думаете?
 
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