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Tags protest incidents , protest issues , Seattle incidents

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Old 10th August 2020, 05:05 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The only reform that should lead to is wider deployment of naloxone to law enforcement to treat opioid overdose. Floyd couldn't breathe because he had overdosed on Fentanyl, and he was saying that before the cops even touched him. The cops didn't kill Floyd, he killed himself. I assume by accident, but it was still his own drug use which killed him.
Can't tell if serious...
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Old 10th August 2020, 05:20 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Can't tell if serious...
Have you seen the recently released body can footage of how the encounter started? Have you read about the toxicology results?

Floyd died of an overdose. A massive overdose.
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Old 10th August 2020, 06:45 PM   #323
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Did you know that you can die from having your throat cut while you're having a heart attack?

Edit: Doesn't make the throat-slitter any less of a murderer.
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Old 10th August 2020, 07:03 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Did you know that you can die from having your throat cut while you're having a heart attack?

Edit: Doesn't make the throat-slitter any less of a murderer.
You can, but that isn’t what happened. His trouble breathing started before he was restrained. The restraint didn’t impair his breathing any further. How do we know? Because he was still able to speak. If you can speak, your airway isn’t obstructed. His breathing troubles weren’t because of the restraint, but because of the drugs.

The full body cam video should have been released at the start of all this. That it wasn’t is damning to whoever made the decision not to. That decision is responsible for a lot of chaos and likely more than a few deaths.
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Old 10th August 2020, 07:24 PM   #325
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You are completely, utterly full of crap. Please post this “fentanyl overdose” evidence and prove me wrong. Preferably in the right thread. Thank you.
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Old 10th August 2020, 08:05 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Because he was still able to speak. If you can speak, your airway isn’t obstructed.
That's only true if there's an object lodged in your airway. If someone's (or something) pressing on you, speaking indicates that you can breathe out. Like a constrictor snake, prey can't hold its breath forever and if you ensure that your victim can't breathe back in, you've already killed them. You need only wait for them to stop moving.
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Old 10th August 2020, 08:38 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
That's only true if there's an object lodged in your airway. If someone's (or something) pressing on you, speaking indicates that you can breathe out. Like a constrictor snake, prey can't hold its breath forever and if you ensure that your victim can't breathe back in, you've already killed them. You need only wait for them to stop moving.
That might be true of chest compression. But the cop wasn’t pressing on his chest, but his neck.

And btw, constrictor snakes don’t kill by stopping their prey from breathing. They do it by stopping blood flow to vital organs, leading to cardiac arrest. That didn’t happen to Floyd either. If blood flow to the brain had been shut off, he would have passed out almost immediately.
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Old 10th August 2020, 10:56 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You are completely, utterly full of crap. Please post this “fentanyl overdose” evidence and prove me wrong. Preferably in the right thread. Thank you.
Well, you might not like the source, but here's one column that explains:

https://pjmedia.com/columns/jack-dun...uittal-n758389

Quote:
The autopsy also notes Floyd’s hypertensive condition and “severe” arteriosclerotic heart disease, and the presence of both fentanyl and methamphetamine in his blood. Either of these drugs can cause arrhythmias even in an otherwise healthy person, and when this case is heard in court the defense will surely produce medical experts who will testify that Floyd’s heart conditions, drug use, and resistance to being placed in the police car combined to put the fatal strain on his heart.
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Old 10th August 2020, 11:38 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Well, you might not like the source, but here's one column that explains:

https://pjmedia.com/columns/jack-dun...uittal-n758389
That article is not evidence that Floyd died from a fentanyl overdose.

We know how Floyd died. His neck was stepped on for a prolonged period, until he died. That is what the autopsy actually shows. Any attempt to say otherwise simply shows us who the racists are.
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Last edited by uke2se; 10th August 2020 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 11th August 2020, 05:52 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Well, you might not like the source, but here's one column that explains:



https://pjmedia.com/columns/jack-dun...uittal-n758389


An opinion column notes that he had the drug in his system. So does everyone wearing a fentanyl patch for pain management. That is not a drug overdose.

ETA - nor is it a “massive overdose”

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Have you seen the recently released body can footage of how the encounter started? Have you read about the toxicology results?



Floyd died of an overdose. A massive overdose.

People who are having a “massive overdose” don’t go shopping or survive for 9 minutes while being knelt on.

Last edited by carlitos; 11th August 2020 at 05:54 AM.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:00 AM   #331
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This narrative that Floyd died from an overdose, where is it coming from? Is it Nazi propaganda out of 4-chan or is it simply racist conservative morons spinning themselves on Twitter? I mean, we have two autopsy reports that describe Floyds death as resulting from the actions of the Police - even the first one, which was quite clearly sanitized to avoid culpability. It smells like Chuds are attempting historical revisionism, but I can't understand the purpose.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:11 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Why should good cops be blamed for the actions of a few bad apples?
Because the bad apples in the cops world is the rats not those say planting evidence that is always fine with good cops. And they do a good job at keep rats out of their departments.

You just have to remember that the good cops are the violent ones, they are the ones who get elected to police union office and promoted.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:13 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Sensationalism bias. Nothing sells like a scandal.
As opposed to non scandals like officers who record themselves planting evidence still being cops. Nothing wrong with that, it is the rats who are the problem after all. They get sent to mental hospitals.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:17 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I feel like the conversation shifted somewhere along the way. You asked:

I gave an answer to that.

There's a problem with the justice system in the US, definitely. But the reason that so many people have the impression that ALL COPPERS ARE BASTARDS isn't because of their own person experiences with cops. It's because they are shown cops being bastards on a regular basis, even if that isn't actually representative of the behavior of the majority of police.
How come these hypothetical non bastard cops never step up and stop the bastard ones? Clearly not all the cops standing around while George Floyd was being killed were bastards they must have had good cops among them too right?

The real answer is that the worst of them are constantly enabled by the rest, and when someone tries to actual hold the utter bastards accountable they are the ones who lose their job.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:20 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
How come these hypothetical non bastard cops never step up and stop the bastard ones? Clearly not all the cops standing around while George Floyd was being killed were bastards they must have had good cops among them too right?

The real answer is that the worst of them are constantly enabled by the rest, and when someone tries to actual hold the utter bastards accountable they are the ones who lose their job.
Why, that almost sounds like there's a problem with the system. A... systematic problem, if you will.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:20 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
How come these hypothetical non bastard cops never step up and stop the bastard ones? Clearly not all the cops standing around while George Floyd was being killed were bastards they must have had good cops among them too right?

The real answer is that the worst of them are constantly enabled by the rest, and when someone tries to actual hold the utter bastards accountable they are the ones who lose their job.
Don't be hyperbolic, they dont all get fired.

Sometimes the cops will raid your home and have you illegally committed to a psychiatric ward.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian...ary_commitment
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:25 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Don't be hyperbolic, they dont all get fired.

Sometimes the cops will raid your home and have you illegally committed to a psychiatric ward.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian...ary_commitment
That is fine, remember it isn't like the cops who did that ever went to prison for such illegal detentions. Like when a cop flips out and shoots a black person it is not a crime just a civil judgement for everyone to pay, you can't hold the police accountable that wouldn't be right.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:34 AM   #338
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your argument is ridiculous, illustrated:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
How come these hypothetical non bastard cops never step up and stop the bastard ones? Clearly not all the cops standing around while George Floyd was being killed were bastards they must have had good cops among them too right?

The real answer is that the worst of them are constantly enabled by the rest, and when someone tries to actual hold the utter bastards accountable they are the ones who lose their job.
How come these hypothetical non-terrorist Muslims never step up and stop the terrorist ones? Clearly not all the Muslims standing around while [Daniel Pearl / disco dancers in Bali / World Trade Center Workers on 9/11] were being killed were terrorists they must have had good Muslims among them too right?

The real answer is that the worst of them are constantly enabled by the rest, and when someone tries to actually hold the terrorists accountable they are the ones who lose their heads.

Last edited by carlitos; 11th August 2020 at 06:36 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:36 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
How come these hypothetical non-terrorist Muslims never step up and stop the terrorist ones?
Many Muslims try and not an analogous situaion. Bad analogy.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:41 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
How come these hypothetical non-terrorist Muslims never step up and stop the terrorist ones? Clearly not all the Muslims standing around while [Daniel Pearl / disco dancers in Bali / World Trade Center Workers on 9/11] were being killed were terrorists they must have had good Muslims among them too right?
They do and they don't lose their jobs when they report troubling actions and speech by others. Rather unlike the police who make sure such undesirable rats are driven out.

If you really want to do the comparison you should at least pick a self selected group like Hezbollah to show the good and bad apples.

Show me the cops arresting another cop for shooting a baton round into someones head fracturing their skull. We have lots of incidents of that to choose from clearly these non bastard cops must be doing something about the bastards who think it is just funny to do that.

Never a non bastard cop around when there is a cop around for some reason.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:43 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
They do and they don't lose their jobs when they report troubling actions and speech by others. Rather unlike the police who make sure such undesirable rats are driven out.

If you really want to do the comparison you should at least pick a self selected group like Hezbollah to show the good and bad apples.

Show me the cops arresting another cop for shooting a baton round into someones head fracturing their skull. We have lots of incidents of that to choose from clearly these non bastard cops must be doing something about the bastards who think it is just funny to do that.

Never a non bastard cop around when there is a cop around for some reason.
Saying more things without logic or evidence is not a defense of the first things that you said without logic or evidence. Time to move on.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:45 AM   #342
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100 good cops lined up to wish Officer Bologna well as he turned himself in for felony aggravated assault for beating a protester in the head with a metal baton.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/joseph...-20200608.html

Quote:
Bologna was charged Friday with aggravated assault for allegedly cracking the Temple University student’s head open and leaving him with a gash that required about 10 staples and 10 sutures to close. On Monday, the officer turned himself in, cheered on by supporters gathered outside the union headquarters who clapped and shouted “good job” as he passed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...gna-suspended/
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:45 AM   #343
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I am willing to accept that there are good cops in the US. I would like to see a situation where a cop is acting like a bastard and another cop substantially intervenes (moving the knee of your colleague who were sitting on the neck of a protester in front of TV-cameras doesn't count) and then a narrative of what happened to that good cop.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:47 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Saying more things without logic or evidence is not a defense of the first things that you said without logic or evidence. Time to move on.
And your support for that merely shooting someone in the face with a baton round against training and useage is not enough to make a cop a bastard that the non bastard cops would need to act against is clear.

What does it take to make a cop enough of a bastard that the majority of cops who are not bastards will stand up to them, this way we can separate normal cop behavior like lying on police reports and being found out by video, from the acts of actual bastard cops.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:47 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Have you seen the recently released body can footage of how the encounter started? Have you read about the toxicology results?

Floyd died of an overdose. A massive overdose.
You are incorrect. Both autopsies said Floyd died from homicide, death at the hands of another.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...ng-of-america/

This article will explain your error well. He would not be dead but for the knee at his neck.
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Old 11th August 2020, 06:49 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
100 good cops lined up to wish Officer Bologna well as he turned himself in for felony aggravated assault for beating a protester in the head with a metal baton.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/joseph...-20200608.html



https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...gna-suspended/
Clearly this shows that none of them can be considered bastard cops and that such an interaction with a protester is normal police behavior, and not the actions of some hypothetical bastard.
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Old 11th August 2020, 07:03 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Many Muslims try and not an analogous situaion. Bad analogy.
It's a very good analogy for the thread overall, though. One reason why it's easy to Defund the NYPD is that their massive muslim surveillance has uncovered a grand total of 0 leads.

Main reason? Turns out other muslims will eagerly report someone who has become radicalized, all on their own. They simply aren't interested in being in the same mosque as some violent lunatic. No wild police action needed, no need to teargas the mosque and the entire street it's located on. Just arrest the one jerk, problem solved.

slowly turns and stares at people screeching about how nobody would ever do this in, say, a protest, with a grin
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Old 11th August 2020, 07:19 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
This narrative that Floyd died from an overdose, where is it coming from? Is it Nazi propaganda out of 4-chan or is it simply racist conservative morons spinning themselves on Twitter? I mean, we have two autopsy reports that describe Floyds death as resulting from the actions of the Police - even the first one, which was quite clearly sanitized to avoid culpability. It smells like Chuds are attempting historical revisionism, but I can't understand the purpose.
It's the usual desperate need to see the black guy as responsible for it's own death - much like the use of the Brute stereotype is often employed in cases where the black guy was very clearly attacked on camera (see: Trayvon Martin, Freddie Grey, Eric Garner, Ahmaud Arbery - and women like Aiyanna Stanley-Jones and Breonna Taylor supposedly starring as collateral damage).

Emphasis on the pronouns used - part of this desperate fear is the view of black people as innately subhuman. That's why I don't engage with that sort of garbage - I personally feel no need to argue my own humanity with internet dimwits and white supremacists, any more than I feel any further need to argue with a Black Hebrew Israelite or any other bigot who spends his free time yelling racist crap on street corners. Feel free if you want to, of course. Just be warned, their worldview demands they believe it no matter the cost to themselves.

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Old 11th August 2020, 07:31 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
It's the usual desperate need to see the black guy as the Hulking, drug-fueled brute that was, in the end, responsible for it's own death.

Emphasis on the pronouns used - part of this desperate fear is the view of black people as innately subhuman. That's why I don't engage with that sort of garbage - I personally feel no need to argue my own humanity with internet dimwits and white supremacists, any more than I feel any further need to argue with a Black Hebrew Israelite or any other bigot who spends his free time yelling on street corners. Feel free if you want to, of course. Just be warned, their worldview demands they believe it no matter the cost to themselves.
Schrodinger's black man. Simultaneously super-human in strength and pain resistance, requiring extreme force to apprehend, but also inherently fragile, thus making the cops not responsible for in custody deaths.

Maybe an extremely fit, sober George Floyd could have survived another half minute with his neck compressed. Given that he was strangled even after obviously losing consciousness and going into cardiac arrest, I fail to see how that would have mattered.
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Old 11th August 2020, 07:33 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And your support for that merely shooting someone in the face with a baton round
You're doing parody here, right?
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Old 11th August 2020, 07:38 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You are incorrect. Both autopsies said Floyd died from homicide, death at the hands of another.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...ng-of-america/

This article will explain your error well. He would not be dead but for the knee at his neck.
It's funny that this article describes the idea of a drug overdose as "gaslighting", given that it was written before the full bodycam video was released. That right there is your gaslighting.
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Old 11th August 2020, 07:39 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You're doing parody here, right?
If that was bad behavior then with all the well documented instances of it surely there must have been police of the non bastard type there to arrest the cop for assault with a deadly weapon. The fact that this does not happen shows a support for this behavior and acceptance of it. Why shouldn't that extend to you like all the non bastard cops who laugh along with it? Don't worry endorsing it doesn't make you a bastard apparently.
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Old 11th August 2020, 07:53 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's funny that this article describes the idea of a drug overdose as "gaslighting", given that it was written before the full bodycam video was released. That right there is your gaslighting.
Unless body cams can detect blood chemistry, we still await your evidence of "massive overdose" causing Mr. Floyd's death.

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Old 11th August 2020, 08:10 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
This narrative that Floyd died from an overdose, where is it coming from? Is it Nazi propaganda out of 4-chan or is it simply racist conservative morons spinning themselves on Twitter? I mean, we have two autopsy reports that describe Floyds death as resulting from the actions of the Police - even the first one, which was quite clearly sanitized to avoid culpability. It smells like Chuds are attempting historical revisionism, but I can't understand the purpose.
It seems to be the usual over-simplification of a complex matter, often by attacking some person or single incident.

Global warming? No. Al Gore has a mansion, see, and Greta Thunberg is just a confused teen who's being brainwashed and exploited by her parents and their agents.

Anti-racism protests all over the Western world? Oh, they're all just sore 'cause some criminal black guy overdosed and they think the cops killed him. See, no big deal .
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Old 11th August 2020, 08:15 AM   #355
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By extension, it reminds me of how other less-than-serious groups smear individuals to try to discredit complex theories or narratives.

The theory of evolution? Hey, did you know Darwin was a racist?
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Old 11th August 2020, 08:19 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Have you seen the recently released body can footage of how the encounter started? Have you read about the toxicology results?

Floyd died of an overdose. A massive overdose.
What a disgusting post.
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Old 11th August 2020, 08:47 AM   #357
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Looters are looters no matter what the circumstances (Chicago Sun-Times)

Quote:
Mayor Lightfoot is right.

Sunday night’s assault on downtown businesses was a brazen display of criminal behavior, pure and simple.
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Old 11th August 2020, 08:51 AM   #358
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For what little it's worth. Here is the original autopsy report. It seems to have been removed, so I had to go to Google cache to get it:
https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

It doesn't look as if the autopsy either confirms or refutes the claims about neck compression being the cause of death. There is quite a bit of detail about them looking for signs of injury to the neck and not finding it, maybe I've skimmed past something?

I wouldn't know whether the toxicology in the report would be a massive overdose or not. There seems to be quite the mixture in his system.

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Old 11th August 2020, 08:53 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
From the article
Quote:
But the type of pop-up vandalism that took place on Sunday has been going on in Chicago for a while.

In fact, police officers have been trying to deal with large crowds of young thieves targeting Mag Mile stores for at least two summers.
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Old 11th August 2020, 09:35 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
From the article
Yup. The mag mile has been targeted variously with carjackings, "flash mob" groups of rampaging youths, smash & grab robberies, looting during BLM protests, and now more opportunistic looting and vandalism. If the city can't figure this out, someday it might look like rich shopping streets in the third world, with machine-gun toting guards and secure store entryways.
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