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Tags language , racial slurs , racism issues , semantics , Stephen Hagan

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Old 24th July 2020, 08:50 PM   #201
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's not nonsensical. We can argue about it until the cows come home, but a bunch of white people being offended on behalf of black people doesn't really speak to me. Remember the Redskins nonsense? Turns out most NAs didn't care about it.



And?



I'm not "trying" anything. Your perspective is not inevitable.
I think you mean THE Football Team™ nonsense!

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tl;dr

https://youtu.be/ejKvwawO0uA?t=634
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:51 PM   #202
cullennz
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yes, I did...
Ta

Missed that.

Still think it's stupid though sorry
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:54 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Ta

Missed that.

Still think it's stupid though sorry
Seeing as I don't remember if you answered this one...

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Okay, cullennz, we get it.

Now, what would you do if you were in charge of Coon's overseas expansion plan. Do you just say, "Aaaah **** it, let's sell the Sepos and the Poms some good ol Coon!" or do you say, "Maybe we should change the name for this one?"

Same question if you want to sell golliwogs with Robertson's Marmalade in the US.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:59 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Seeing as I don't remember if you answered this one...
Obviously I would market it under a different name.

Same as Burger King in Aus is (albeit for licensing reasons in that case)

I have no Idea about the marmalade.

Never heard of it. Actually hate the stuff.

Is the name Robertson racist as well?
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:04 PM   #205
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Just googled it.

Gollywogs.

It says they don't do those any more.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:04 PM   #206
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Virtue signalling can be very profitable for a company.

Look at how much free publicity they are getting for this cheese. You can be sure that they will draw out the re-naming process for as long as possible.
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:04 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Obviously I would market it under a different name.
"Obviously"? That's a surprise.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Same as Burger King in Aus is (albeit for licensing reasons in that case)

I have no Idea about the marmalade.

Never heard of it. Actually hate the stuff.

Is the name Robertson racist as well?
No, but some of those easily offended folk seem to get bent out of shape about golliwogs. Let me know if you need any clarification on that one.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:07 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
"Obviously"? That's a surprise.







No, but some of those easily offended folk seem to get bent out of shape about golliwogs. Let me know if you need any clarification on that one.
I just said I googled it and they don't do them anymore
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:08 PM   #209
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And why is it a surprise?

It would be a new market
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:14 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
And why is it a surprise?

It would be a new market
Yeah, true. Every company "obviously" changes its brandname for every new market, right?

That's why you never heard of Nike, or Sony, or Apple, or Toyota, right? Because they all go by different names in New Zealand.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:22 PM   #211
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No.

They might change it to suit the prospective customers though.

Mazda/ford. Vuaxhall/holden. Burger king/Hungry Jacks. Twix/Raidar Campbells/Bachelors. Axe/Lynx. KFC/PFK. Snickers/Marathon
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:28 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
No.

They might change it to suit the prospective customers though.

Mazda/ford. Vuaxhall/holden. Burger king/Hungry Jacks. Twix/Raidar Campbells/Bachelors. Axe/Lynx. KFC/PFK. Snickers/Marathon
cullennz, the reason why you know you would "obviously" change the name from Coon if you tried to sell it in the US and the UK, is because you know full well that it would sound outright racist, and that no company would be foolish enough to think they can play the "wuh? racist?! no one told me that there is a totally unrelated use of this word?"

Now why don't you stop with the acting dumb persona. I don't believe anyone can be as thick as the character you play here.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:30 PM   #213
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I should add I find it humorous you were comparing a small brand of cheese on the **** end of nowhere to the biggest global brands in history.

Made me laugh and it is appreciated.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:32 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
cullennz, the reason why you know you would "obviously" change the name from Coon if you tried to sell it in the US and the UK, is because you know full well that it would sound outright racist, and that no company would be foolish enough to think they can play the "wuh? racist?! no one told me that there is a totally unrelated use of this word?"



Now why don't you stop with the acting dumb persona. I don't believe anyone can be as thick as the character you play here.
That is why I put obviously.

This doesn't change the fact I think it is stupid to change it in Aus because some Americans and apparently poms get offended aussies have been buying it for 100 odd years
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:39 PM   #215
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I have already said from my very first post on this thread it is a private company so they can do what they want. I don't actually really care as I eat proper cheese, and have never or probably ever will eat this stuff.

Just think the reasoning is stupid.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:49 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I should add I find it humorous you were comparing a small brand of cheese on the **** end of nowhere to the biggest global brands in history.

Made me laugh and it is appreciated.
Yeah, the fact they were global brands Was. The. *******. Joke! Coz, you see, it wouldn't really work as well if I sarcastically said,

Quote:
That's why you never heard of Fry's, or Wimpy, or Colmans, or HP Sauce, right? Because they all go by different names in New Zealand.
Because you would be like, "wuh? Never heard of them!"

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
That is why I put obviously.
So what was the playing dumb routine about before? Trolling?

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
This doesn't change the fact I think it is stupid to change it in Aus because some Americans and apparently poms get offended aussies have been buying it for 100 odd years
Poms are not getting offended. We've already been through this. I showed you who was upset about this. I'm not going to go through it again.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:04 PM   #217
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English marmite does funny enough.

Edit: I have never heard of Fry's btw.

And though I think there are Wimpys in Auckland no one else would know what they are
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

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Old 24th July 2020, 10:06 PM   #218
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They call it Our Mate due to copyright again.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:12 PM   #219
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Actually there are no Wimpys now according to Wikipedia all the kiwi ones got rebranded
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:16 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
That is why I put obviously.

This doesn't change the fact I think it is stupid to change it in Aus because some Americans and apparently poms get offended aussies have been buying it for 100 odd years
[anecdote]When I was younger, more stupid and untravelled youth in Australia, I and my pre/early teen friends would whisper vulgar jokes about the name Coon cheese with the full knowledge, at 10 years old or so, that it was a racist epithet used by salt of the earth Aussies when talking about indigenous people.[/anecdote]

To pretend that no one in Australia was aware of the other use of the word was to have lived in a bubble.
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:20 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
[anecdote]When I was younger, more stupid and untravelled youth in Australia, I and my pre/early teen friends would whisper vulgar jokes about the name Coon cheese with the full knowledge, at 10 years old or so, that it was a racist epithet used by salt of the earth Aussies when talking about indigenous people.[/anecdote]



To pretend that no one in Australia was aware of the other use of the word was to have lived in a bubble.
I haven't said it wasn't. Or that people don't understand this.

But it is also a 100 year old brand name from someone's surname.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:30 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I haven't said it wasn't. Or that people don't understand this.
How about addressing what I was replying to.
I’ll quote you again and highlight the salient points.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
This doesn't change the fact I think it is stupid to change it in Aus because some Americans and apparently poms get offended aussies have been buying it for 100 odd years
My post addressed the common knowledge by Australians that the word was/is used as a racist epithet. Arguing that it is being changed due to delicate Poms or Yanks is just absurd.
Quote:
But it is also a 100 year old brand name from someone's surname.
”Tradition” is always a great excuse to continue to insult.
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:32 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
How about addressing what I was replying to.
I’ll quote you again and highlight the salient points.


”Tradition” is always a great excuse to continue to insult.
So change it.

It is stupid. But doesn't affect me in the least
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:33 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
So change it.

It is stupid. But doesn't affect me in the least
It is stupid.

But not for the stupid reasons you gave in the post I responded to.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:07 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It was a question and you haven't answered it.

Look at it from another way.

You personally happened to have been born with the surname "Coon".

Would you personally legally change it?
Not directed at me, but that's a matter for the individual.

We all have different feelings and circumstances, even within families.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:08 PM   #226
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Likewise, this is ultimately not a precedent.

It's an individual matter - the brand's.

The conclusion to their announcement from their website:

https://www.saputodairyaustralia.com...eese-statement

"After thorough consideration, Saputo has decided to retire the COON® brand name. We are working to develop a new brand name that will honour the brand-affinity felt by our valued consumers while aligning with current attitudes and perspectives.

"We believe we all share in the responsibility to eliminate racism in all its forms and we feel this is an important step we must take to uphold this commitment."
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:13 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Not directed at me, but that's a matter for the individual.



We all have different feelings and circumstances, even within families.
Good point tbf
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 25th July 2020, 12:10 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
I just posed your question to her. She thought a few seconds before saying that no, it's still a problem.
Not that I want to encourage barracking your wife but would you be willing to ask her exactly why she wouldn't buy it?

What is the specific reason?

I'm genuinely interested as the only reason I can think of (in my limited capacity as a white person) is that she thinks it supports a racist agenda on the part of the manufacturer.
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Old 25th July 2020, 12:23 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Not that I want to encourage barracking your wife but would you be willing to ask her exactly why she wouldn't buy it?

What is the specific reason?

I'm genuinely interested as the only reason I can think of (in my limited capacity as a white person) is that she thinks it supports a racist agenda on the part of the manufacturer.
Is this guy's wife the only black person you have any tangential connection with? If not, can't you ask the ones you know?
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Old 25th July 2020, 12:35 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by PursuedByABear View Post
I didn't say you were right-wing, I said it was a right wing tactic. It is.



I didn't in any way try and "tell you how to post". Quote the part you think did.



I know nothing about Australia.
There is a mistake I have seen posters on here make.

You openly admit you know nothing about Australia.

Just as a heads up.

Left and right politics in Aus and NZ is poles apart from what you know them as in the NH.

With the possible exception of that nutty racist chick Pauline Hanson.

Most parties are basically right or left of center and fight for the swing voter.
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Old 25th July 2020, 12:43 AM   #231
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Old 25th July 2020, 12:57 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
There is a mistake I have seen posters on here make.

You openly admit you know nothing about Australia.

Just as a heads up.

Left and right politics in Aus and NZ is poles apart from what you know them as in the NH.

With the possible exception of that nutty racist chick Pauline Hanson.

Most parties are basically right or left of center and fight for the swing voter.
Which is entirely irrelevant to the matter in hand.
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Old 25th July 2020, 01:48 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by PursuedByABear View Post
Is this guy's wife the only black person you have any tangential connection with? If not, can't you ask the ones you know?
I'll decide who I interact with and how I do so thank you. Quite the bossy boots around here ain'tcha? Lionking and then me..... who next boss?

Here's a thing you can have fun by coming to unsupported conclusions. I do not have any black friends. I have an associate (based in Manchester) at work with whom I do not have the depth of relationship to ask such a question. Other than Fahrid I do not know any other "black" persons.
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Old 25th July 2020, 01:58 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Really? Okay I thought it was fairly obvious, but I am bemused that so many people think this name change is a serious issue when compared to indigenous disadvantage.

Do you think there is celebration in disadvantaged indigenous communities?
It sure has generated plenty of reactionary salt.
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Old 25th July 2020, 02:11 AM   #235
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Or " Fuchs "..

I knew a guy, a Catholic priest actually named " Fuchs " ..

He pronounced it " Fox ".. Father Fox..
I was thinking of a more blatant anglosisation. If this product name was one letter different it wouldn't be a problem.
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Old 25th July 2020, 02:31 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Then will you at least concede that this general point is irrelevant for the discussion on Coon Cheese, given that the campaign is an indigenous one?
Sure.

Quote:
You are making the claim that these things are only white guiltists making racist assumptions about what black people or indigenous people should be offended by as though they are not even consulted
No, I am not. I'm saying that it happens in some instances, and that at the very least we should be sure that it offends those that are said to be offended before taking action.

(ETA: In other words I don't care that the n-word offends white people. I do care that it offends a large swath of black people, though.)
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Old 25th July 2020, 02:36 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Just for curiosity sake, does her initial response change if you tell her that the founder of the company's last name was Coon, and it was named after him?

It wasn't.
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Old 25th July 2020, 02:44 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
It wasn't.
Tad pedantic.

It was the founder of the method to produce the horrible stuff.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 25th July 2020, 02:54 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Think it was actually a white Aussie comedian with Coon cheese leading it tbf.

You might want to read up a bit
The comedian who is associated with the story is Stephen K. Amos, he's British and black. Sorry if that's also being pedantic.
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Old 25th July 2020, 02:58 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
The comedian who is associated with the story is Stephen K. Amos, he's British and black. Sorry if that's also being pedantic.
It appears to be a few people associated with it sorry if that's pedantic
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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