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Old 5th September 2020, 07:58 AM   #1
Brainster
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Not Being Black While Black

Or maybe I should say, Being Black While Not Being Black? Kind of amused at this story. A professor of Latin and African-American Studies at George Washington University named Jessica Krug has admitted that instead of being Black and Latina, she's a white Jewish woman.

Quote:
"To an escalating degree over my adult life, I have eschewed my lived experience as a white Jewish child in suburban Kansas City under various assumed identities within a Blackness that I had no right to claim: first North African Blackness, then US rooted Blackness, then Caribbean rooted Bronx Blackness," she wrote.
Now in these days when we are supposed to acknowledge that people who grew up as boys are women, who's to say that she's not black? But what amuses me even more about the story is that Jessica also liked to role-play as yet another persona:

Quote:
“I’m Jessa Bombalera. I’m here in El Barrio, East Harlem – you probably have heard about it because you sold my ******* neighborhood to developers and gentrifiers,” she begins as she introduces herself. A few moments later, she adds: “I wanna call out all these white New Yorkers who waited four hours with us to be able to speak and then did not yield their time for Black and Brown indigenous New Yorkers.”
Gotta love that name, Bombalera. Apparently a bunch of activists in New York are shocked to discover that the Black and Brown indigenous New Yorker they knew and loved is not only white and Jewish, but a professor in DC who grew up in KC.

Krug apparently was found out and tried to get ahead of the revelations by posting her apology online.
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Old 5th September 2020, 08:58 AM   #2
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Shades of Dozeal.

So, two issues I guess. One, if she was at all serious: if you can deny the junk between your legs and your very chromosomal makeup, why not your race or ethnicity? I mean as odd as it sounds. Two, believing what you see online. Reality itself is becoming a matter of opinion and/or preference.

Its a Brave New World.
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Old 5th September 2020, 10:46 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Shades of Dozeal.
Tell me you meant that!
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Old 5th September 2020, 02:40 PM   #4
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Trans Shaun King?

Shaun King in drag?

Shauna King?

Talcum XX?

Martin Luther Queen?
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Old 5th September 2020, 03:25 PM   #5
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Some woman once asked my sister if she was mixed black and South Asian or something. She said yes and she bought it. Hell some people at my old job thought I was Central American or something.

"Latino" in particular is so generic as to be meaningless. Most people imagine mestizo, Indigenous and European mixed, when they hear Latino. But there are Latin American Jews as well and who's going to stop you then? lol

I doubt that's what most people have in mind when they think "person of color".
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Old 5th September 2020, 03:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Trans Shaun King?

Shaun King in drag?

Shauna King?

Talcum XX?

Martin Luther Queen?
Martin Luther Cream
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Old 5th September 2020, 05:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Shades of Dozeal.

So, two issues I guess. One, if she was at all serious: if you can deny the junk between your legs and your very chromosomal makeup, why not your race or ethnicity? I mean as odd as it sounds. Two, believing what you see online. Reality itself is becoming a matter of opinion and/or preference.

Its a Brave New World.
Because one is considered politically correct and the other is not.

I really don't have an explanation that makes any more sense than that.

I suppose one could make an argument that "if you don't have ancestors who were in the group, how can you claim to be one of them?" We all have both male and female ancestors.
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Old 5th September 2020, 05:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Because one is considered politically correct and the other is not.

I really don't have an explanation that makes any more sense than that.

I suppose one could make an argument that "if you don't have ancestors who were in the group, how can you claim to be one of them?" We all have both male and female ancestors.
But did you have gay ancestors?
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Old 5th September 2020, 06:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But did you have gay ancestors?
Probably.
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Old 5th September 2020, 06:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But did you have gay ancestors?
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Probably.
Probably most of us did. Gay rarely means "exclusively homosexual". It usually just means a preference.
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Old 7th September 2020, 02:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Or maybe I should say, Being Black While Not Being Black? Kind of amused at this story. A professor of Latin and African-American Studies at George Washington University named Jessica Krug has admitted that instead of being Black and Latina, she's a white Jewish woman.



Now in these days when we are supposed to acknowledge that people who grew up as boys are women, who's to say that she's not black? But what amuses me even more about the story is that Jessica also liked to role-play as yet another persona:



Gotta love that name, Bombalera. Apparently a bunch of activists in New York are shocked to discover that the Black and Brown indigenous New Yorker they knew and loved is not only white and Jewish, but a professor in DC who grew up in KC.

Krug apparently was found out and tried to get ahead of the revelations by posting her apology online.
"White"
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Old 7th September 2020, 02:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
"White"
Yes. Why not?
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Old 11th September 2020, 05:33 AM   #13
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I don't get it
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:09 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Or maybe I should say, Being Black While Not Being Black? Kind of amused...

Now in these days when we are supposed to acknowledge that people who grew up as boys are women, who's to say that she's not black? But what amuses me even more...
Black is not a race, and gender is not defined by genes.

Do you find that amusing? If so, why?
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:53 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Black is not a race, and gender is not defined by genes.

....
Actually, it is as much influenced by genes as many other personality traits. Not just X and Y, but by several gene SNPs. It's on a par with Chronic Over Achiever, artistic excellence, or manic depressive. (One SNP is found in people who "try something new".) Which traits all also have a "nurture" side too. But it's not a choice.

Why, some people are even Casebro-phobic. I don't blame them, it is one of their personality traits. I am me, they are them... Viva La Difference.
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Old 11th September 2020, 06:59 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Black is not a race, and gender is not defined by genes.

...
And Black is a race*, genes show it. But the lines between races are smudged due to intermingling.

* Biological nomenclature is "Sub-Saharan". Vs northern Africans who are more Arab.

Isn't ISF supposed to be science based?
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:06 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Black is not a race,....
If black is a state of mind, the woman in the OP lacks the social experience it would require. She is a Wanna be. Like the posers with Stolen Valor.

Probably another slice of the GWAS I alluded to in post 15.
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:48 PM   #18
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Surely it must be easy to prove that one is "black" through genealogical records? It would be thoroughly ironic if someone would put so much emphasis on their lineage yet has no objective impartial way to show that they are purebred...
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Old 11th September 2020, 07:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Probably most of us did. Gay rarely means "exclusively homosexual". It usually just means a preference.
More importantly just because someone is homosexual does not mean that they are physically incapable of impregnating women.

Of course gay women just have lay still and think of England, but many gay men can forced and pressured into having kids.
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Old 11th September 2020, 08:17 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Surely it must be easy to prove that one is "black" through genealogical records? It would be thoroughly ironic if someone would put so much emphasis on their lineage yet has no objective impartial way to show that they are purebred...
Many blacks in America can trace their genealogical records to a GGGGfather who was a slave owner. Is that what you meant?

But genetically, yes too. Frinstance, my 2C1r. My cousin married a Costa Rica. Their daughter's genes say she is 60% European, 40% sub-Saharan. So the Costa Rican was 20% white, 80% Black.
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Old 11th September 2020, 08:19 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But the lines between races are smudged due to intermingling.
From the evidence, this is pretty much exactly wrong - people started out the same and "races" emerged out of local mutations in often-isolated populations.

All people have African roots; do you picture the big migration to have taken place with exactly 5 races parceled out among the participants, who bred only with each other? Native Americans in the U.S. are considered a separate "race" from Asians, even though they were Asian to begin with. Etc.
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Old 12th September 2020, 07:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
From the evidence, this is pretty much exactly wrong - people started out the same and "races" emerged out of local mutations in often-isolated populations.
Yes, and THEN they started intermingling.

Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
All people have African roots; do you picture the big migration to have taken place with exactly 5 races parceled out among the participants, who bred only with each other? Native Americans in the U.S. are considered a separate "race" from Asians, even though they were Asian to begin with. Etc.
At least your are not claiming that race is a social construct, that there are no "races".
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Old 14th September 2020, 03:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Yes, and THEN they started intermingling.
We are all one species. I don't see a problem.

Quote:
At least your are not claiming that race is a social construct, that there are no "races".
Race (and ethnicity) largely is a social construct. The only differences between "races" are superficial.
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Old 14th September 2020, 03:45 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post


Race (and ethnicity) largely is a social construct. The only differences between "races" are superficial.
Have you told that to the medical specialists who do treat different races/eccentricities differently? How about Tay-Sachs in Jews, and sickle cell in Blacks. And blacks are more salt sensitive, read up on hypertension and adrenals. Blacks have evolved to retain salt because it is rare in the middle of that HUGE continent. Diuretics help them a LOT. Or why creatinine scores are different for black patients? You know nothing of genes.

But, certainly there is no known genetic reason skin color is associated with socio/economical success. (are black haired Europeans dumbies?) Or why the Mexicans have the stereotype of laziness- I've never met a lazy Mexican yet. And I live in San Diego, and have had TWO Mexicans named their first born male children after me. I know their Dads were not lazy.

Oh, there are lots of genetic differences between races besides external features. But most phenotypes are multi-genic. And we don't have the computer power to find the different combinations needed for Intelligence or work ethic, or other personality traits, yet. 10,000 diseases, 60,000,000 gene SNPS, and we need to study 10,000 people to spot the links. You do the math. And look up GWAS while you are at it.
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Old 14th September 2020, 09:09 PM   #25
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While there are some practical differences between different ethnicities and between people of particular geographic areas, the racial categories printed on those forms at the clinic or SSA office aren't very good, and there is a lot of conflating these concepts. Almost everyone has internalized these categories.

I think there are effectively several dozens of what we could call racial divisions.

/sidetrack
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Old 15th September 2020, 01:21 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
While there are some practical differences between different ethnicities and between people of particular geographic areas, the racial categories printed on those forms at the clinic or SSA office aren't very good, and there is a lot of conflating these concepts. Almost everyone has internalized these categories.

I think there are effectively several dozens of what we could call racial divisions.

/sidetrack
Promethease list 11, but those are from particular studies. ASW=African/Amercians in the South West Amerca, HCB is Han Chinese Beijing, CHD was Han Chinese in Denver Colorado.

But the commercial companies- 23&Me or Ancestry, must list hundreds. They are getting close to dividing American Indians by tribe.

For me, 23&Me looked for genes from 224 populations. (two years ago?) And pegged my strongest ancestry at Kaunas County, Lithuania.

More OT: They have a dozen divisions (tribes?) in Africa. Not only can they tell a Black Person by genes, they can tell with part of Africa their ancestors came from.

So enough of the "Race is a social construct". Though stereotypes are, for sure.
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Old 15th September 2020, 05:50 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Have you told that to the medical specialists who do treat different races/eccentricities differently? How about Tay-Sachs in Jews, and sickle cell in Blacks. And blacks are more salt sensitive, read up on hypertension and adrenals. Blacks have evolved to retain salt because it is rare in the middle of that HUGE continent. Diuretics help them a LOT. Or why creatinine scores are different for black patients? You know nothing of genes.

But, certainly there is no known genetic reason skin color is associated with socio/economical success. (are black haired Europeans dumbies?) Or why the Mexicans have the stereotype of laziness- I've never met a lazy Mexican yet. And I live in San Diego, and have had TWO Mexicans named their first born male children after me. I know their Dads were not lazy.

Oh, there are lots of genetic differences between races besides external features. But most phenotypes are multi-genic. And we don't have the computer power to find the different combinations needed for Intelligence or work ethic, or other personality traits, yet. 10,000 diseases, 60,000,000 gene SNPS, and we need to study 10,000 people to spot the links. You do the math. And look up GWAS while you are at it.

Superficial differences, exactly as I said. What makes someone a “Mexican,” for example? Mexican isn’t a race, it’s a nationality.

Race as a concept exists to create divisions. The sooner we stop making it the focus of so much in our society, the sooner it will stop dividing us.
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Old 15th September 2020, 07:24 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Yes, and THEN they started intermingling.



At least your are not claiming that race is a social construct, that there are no "races".
Race is a largely a social construct. DNA influences a lot of traits but there’s not a bright line between races. There’s a continuum. In that sense there are no separate races.

No, Chinese people and white people and black people and Native Americans didn’t all leave Africa as distinct races who then began interbreeding at some later date. I hope you’re pulling my leg but with some posters I’m never sure.

Last edited by Minoosh; 15th September 2020 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 15th September 2020, 08:32 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
More OT: They have a dozen divisions (tribes?) in Africa. Not only can they tell a Black Person by genes, they can tell with part of Africa their ancestors came from.
Why did Hutus check identity cards before slaughtering Tutsis?

There never were any pure races. Just mutations that were not harmful to reproductive fitness. Over time that impacted how people looked and what traits developed in a given area. No pure races, no bright line separating them, just a continuum. It seems to me like your own thinking would lead you there. What would it even mean to be “black” in Africa? Why did British treat the Irish as an inferior “race”?

The 23 and Me type results are based on where your ancestor came from. Asking “What about Tay-Sachs” doesn’t address the question of original, pure races *at all*. What makes you believe it does? I’d like to hear your reasoning. At least, I think I would.

Last edited by Minoosh; 15th September 2020 at 08:58 PM. Reason: slightly less snarky
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Old 15th September 2020, 08:45 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Promethease list 11, but those are from particular studies. ASW=African/Amercians in the South West Amerca, HCB is Han Chinese Beijing, CHD was Han Chinese in Denver Colorado.

But the commercial companies- 23&Me or Ancestry, must list hundreds. They are getting close to dividing American Indians by tribe.

For me, 23&Me looked for genes from 224 populations. (two years ago?) And pegged my strongest ancestry at Kaunas County, Lithuania.

More OT: They have a dozen divisions (tribes?) in Africa. Not only can they tell a Black Person by genes, they can tell with part of Africa their ancestors came from.

So enough of the "Race is a social construct". Though stereotypes are, for sure.
I think it is fair to list indigenous Americans by tribe or nation sometimes, depending on how ethnically homogenous they were(are), especially ones from opposite ends of a massive continent.

Japan could be considered one of the most "pure" countries on Earth and India one of the least.
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Old 16th September 2020, 12:44 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I think it is fair to list indigenous Americans by tribe or nation sometimes, depending on how ethnically homogenous they were(are), especially ones from opposite ends of a massive continent.

Japan could be considered one of the most "pure" countries on Earth and India one of the least.
Some of the tribes IIRC have resisted ancillary collection of DNA because they think it is part of their heritage being appropriated for projects they have no interest in. They might agree to testing for Type 2 diabetes genes, for instance, but not to feed a larger genetic database. Partly because genetic data could make it easier for insurance companies to discriminate against members of some ethnic groups. Of course, the data can also be used for good, or basically just for recreation.

I'm probably wrong on some particulars, and casebro's does seem knowledgeable about genetics - if I am wrong he can correct me, but not with the quality of evidence produced so far. I don't think his examples of gene expression in various groups has anything to do with identifying "pure" races. But here's my understanding: A genetics company collects DNA on a bunch of modern Navajos, and a bunch of modern Apaches, etc., and work out statistically which genes correlate to which tribes. Same process all over the world, basically. When someone gets their DNA analyzed it is compared with a vast database of statistical distributions all over the world and you might end up with some DNA associated only with Apaches. Depending on how well an individual matches the Apache database, they are declared a certain percent Apache. If you have the Tay Sachs recessive gene, you have a trait associated with Ashkenazi populations of Jews. You can take samples in Israel and determine who is primarily Ashkenazi vs. Mizrahi, for example - whether their roots are associated with Eastern Europe or with "indigenous" Jewish populations in Israel. Genetic testing may be encouraged if 2 Ashkenazi Jews want to have children. They each have a much-larger-than-average chance of being carriers of the recessive Tay-Sachs gene. Same thing with sickle cell anemia. Black people carry this gene in larger concentrations than other groups, and statistically tend to marry other black people, so are more likely to have a child with sickle-cell anemia. Why this proves "pure" races is not immediately apparent to me.

There may also be some DNA testing associated with individuals from the past – I don't know if anyone is digging up graves. I don't know how we deduce people have a certain amount of Neanderthal gene. Probably because a bunch of people in the area were tested and came up with a genetic probability profile distinct from other regions, so the clusters were declared Neanderthal. Same with other populations. Modern-day residents of the Netherlands are tested and show distinctive clusters of various genes. If you are tested your results are compared against "Dutch" profiles and you are said to be a certain percentage Dutch.

I've read evidence that the highly homogenous "Han Chinese" ethnicity is partly manufactured. Outsiders who conquered China tended to end up identifying as Chinese, but they may have been Mongols or Manchus originally. It's been speculated that Chinese data scientists identified a whole slew of traits as "pure" Han Chinese - creating a cohesive-seeming dominant ethnicity. Obviously, people look all sorts of different ways in "homogenous" China. If you can separate some of them out as not-Han minorities you could, as someone said, sow useful divisions.

The differentiating DNA is a tiny, tiny slice of the human genome. 99.9 percent of human DNA is identical.
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Old 19th September 2020, 03:37 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Some of the tribes IIRC have resisted ancillary collection of DNA because they think it is part of their heritage being appropriated for projects they have no interest in. They might agree to testing for Type 2 diabetes genes, for instance, but not to feed a larger genetic database. Partly because genetic data could make it easier for insurance companies to discriminate against members of some ethnic groups. Of course, the data can also be used for good, or basically just for recreation......

Why this proves "pure" races is not immediately apparent to me......

There may also be some DNA testing associated with individuals from the past – I don't know if anyone is digging up graves. I don't know how we deduce people have a certain amount of Neanderthal gene. Probably because a bunch of people in the area were tested and came up with a genetic probability profile distinct from other regions, so the clusters were declared Neanderthal. Same with other populations. Modern-day residents of the Netherlands are tested and show distinctive clusters of various genes. If you are tested your results are compared against "Dutch" profiles and you are said to be a certain percentage Dutch.

....

The differentiating DNA is a tiny, tiny slice of the human genome. 99.9 percent of human DNA is identical.
I'd say you pretty well have it. Except that we do have gene samples from Neandertals. Old bones and frozen specimens. (an interesting side track- there are flattened skulls from South America with the genes of people from Eurasia who also flattened their skulls by tying infants. )

And there have been 10s of millions of gene studies done for comparison. WAaay, beyond anecdotal. If they say you are Dutch, you can bet on it. Likewise, Black. Though samples from Africa and Amerinds are lagging. Socio-economics mostly. But they are getting better, and have enough now to define some tribes. Apaches vs Navajo? Probably petty good, since Apaches were Southwest natively, Navajos were New England when the white man got here. Nez Perce vs Blackfeet? Probably not yet.

So how is "Sub Saharan African" NOT " Black race"?

General science: Phylotree starts at the top with Animal, Vegetable, Mineral. Proceeds downward from Taxa, family, species, sub-species, race,.... Hominids aren't usualy placed that low, I suspect politics.
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Old 19th September 2020, 03:44 PM   #33
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99.9% the same? SNPs: "They occur almost once in every 1,000 nucleotides on average, which means there are roughly 4 to 5 million SNPs in a person's genome. These variations may be unique or occur in many individuals; scientists have found more than 100 million SNPs in populations around the world.Aug 17, 2020"

um, 99.9% of 100m= 1,000,000 possibilities for variation. And since each of us have say. only 100, that is 1M^100. (first snp, 1/1m. Second snp the same, 1M^100, for 1/1,000,000,000,000 have the same combinaton of TWO. . I think that is 1/trillion. 99.9% the same = we are all grossly different. I don't know why you people won't admit the possibility of 'races'. (Actually I do, but I know more genetics than I do psychology or Poly-Sci. Or Poly-Psych? )
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Old 19th September 2020, 08:55 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
99.9% the same? SNPs: "They occur almost once in every 1,000 nucleotides on average, which means there are roughly 4 to 5 million SNPs in a person's genome. These variations may be unique or occur in many individuals; scientists have found more than 100 million SNPs in populations around the world.Aug 17, 2020"

um, 99.9% of 100m= 1,000,000 possibilities for variation. And since each of us have say. only 100, that is 1M^100. (first snp, 1/1m. Second snp the same, 1M^100, for 1/1,000,000,000,000 have the same combinaton of TWO. . I think that is 1/trillion. 99.9% the same = we are all grossly different. I don't know why you people won't admit the possibility of 'races'. (Actually I do, but I know more genetics than I do psychology or Poly-Sci. Or Poly-Psych? )

Because they don’t describe anything useful. We should be breaking down barriers rather than reinforcing them.
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Old 20th September 2020, 08:09 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I'd say you pretty well have it. Except that we do have gene samples from Neandertals. Old bones and frozen specimens. (an interesting side track- there are flattened skulls from South America with the genes of people from Eurasia who also flattened their skulls by tying infants. )

And there have been 10s of millions of gene studies done for comparison. WAaay, beyond anecdotal. If they say you are Dutch, you can bet on it. Likewise, Black. Though samples from Africa and Amerinds are lagging. Socio-economics mostly. But they are getting better, and have enough now to define some tribes. Apaches vs Navajo? Probably petty good, since Apaches were Southwest natively, Navajos were New England when the white man got here. Nez Perce vs Blackfeet? Probably not yet.

So how is "Sub Saharan African" NOT " Black race"?

General science: Phylotree starts at the top with Animal, Vegetable, Mineral. Proceeds downward from Taxa, family, species, sub-species, race,.... Hominids aren't usualy placed that low, I suspect politics.
Populations coexisting in contact do develop genetic similarities. They also develop strong linguistic and cultural similarities. Depending on purely linguistic convention, one could refer to the German race, French race, or even Faeroe Island race. In contrast, homo sapiens sapiens, by scientific definition is a single species, and by that same convention has not been broken down into subspecies.

So much for naming and nomenclature. The issue with the term "race" in current use has to do with a human history of making two major, commonplace errors. The first is in assigning culture to race, an easy mistake to make until late in the colonial period, as local populations in this regard had hitherto been fairly homogeneous in both genetics and culture, making the two seem linked. The second is in mistaking external appearance with genetic composition, given the ongoing mixing Minoosh has pointed out.

The consequence of these errors, along with the general tribal case of regarding those who look different with suspicion, is that erroneous beliefs arise which assign a given fixed culture to outer appearances, with "culture" extending to any negative traits assigned to a group owing to bias. In short, with one look, a false belief and biased narrative may be assigned on sight.

In terms of the science, there is no real relationship between genetics and cultural behavior. Some very broad behavioral traits have been found to be genetic, but these are common to the entire species. This means that any member of the species is perfectly capable of acquiring any human culture if raised in it. Given that, what value can one assign to "race" in today's society? When used to denote external appearance, it can be useful to identify those who in the past and present suffer from the biases assigned that appearance in order to apply mitigating measures (assuming the society in question values political equality). Other than that, like in all other ways, appearances can be deceiving.

Skeptic's take: "Race" is a tainted concept as commonly used. Good practice to ensure that taint is not unconsciously absorbed. In formal terms, the conceptual space does not conform to the physical space; caution when traversing.
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Old 20th September 2020, 10:28 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Shades of Dozeal.

So, two issues I guess. One, if she was at all serious: if you can deny the junk between your legs and your very chromosomal makeup, why not your race or ethnicity? I mean as odd as it sounds. Two, believing what you see online. Reality itself is becoming a matter of opinion and/or preference.

Its a Brave New World.
No. It's a world filled with delusional, mentally ill people, the people who indulge them, and the people who oppose them.
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Old 20th September 2020, 11:04 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
No. It's a world filled with delusional, mentally ill people, the people who indulge them, and the people who oppose them.
Real wild guess here: the delusional, mentally ill people are the ones you don't agree with, right? Even if that were accurate, you think opposing the mentally ill is the move, as opposed to, say, helping them? Strange dichotomy you pose there.

Was the OP woman mentally ill or just caught up in a role play that went too far?
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Old 20th September 2020, 06:27 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Real wild guess here: the delusional, mentally ill people are the ones you don't agree with, right? Even if that were accurate, you think opposing the mentally ill is the move, as opposed to, say, helping them? Strange dichotomy you pose there.

Was the OP woman mentally ill or just caught up in a role play that went too far?

No. I think transgender people who deny biological fact are mentally ill - gender dysphoria. The people who indulge them are not ill, they’re just interested in virtue signaling. Mentally ill people can identify as 8’ space aliens if they want, but that doesn’t make it so, nor do I have to indulge their delusions. As for the people who support them, we can have good faith disagreement.


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Old 20th September 2020, 06:52 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Populations coexisting in contact do develop genetic similarities. They also develop strong linguistic and cultural similarities. Depending on purely linguistic convention, one could refer to the German race, French race, or even Faeroe Island race. In contrast, homo sapiens sapiens, by scientific definition is a single species, and by that same convention has not been broken down into subspecies.

.....
Why not, when other species have been? Answer: Politics. Today, you can't discuss the science of race without being called a racist. My Kudos to the group here, this is the first discussion I have ever had where in nobody called me a racist for bring forth the genetic differences. Thanks for the podium.
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Old 20th September 2020, 09:46 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But they are getting better, and have enough now to define some tribes. Apaches vs Navajo? Probably petty good, since Apaches were Southwest natively, Navajos were New England when the white man got here. Nez Perce vs Blackfeet? Probably not yet.
I can't work out what "Navajos were New England" means - I think you're making an analogy - but no one was in the Southwest "natively." They came from Asia.

Originally Posted by casebro View Post
So how is "Sub Saharan African" NOT " Black race"?
How IS it "black race"?

Probably the Sahara Desert itself explains why sub-Saharan residents became one broadly defined "race": The desert was an obstacle to migration, so mutations tended to stay one one side of that obstacle and gene lines began to diverge.

Originally Posted by casebro View Post
99.9% the same? SNPs: "They occur almost once in every 1,000 nucleotides on average, which means there are roughly 4 to 5 million SNPs in a person's genome. These variations may be unique or occur in many individuals; scientists have found more than 100 million SNPs in populations around the world.Aug 17, 2020"
Did you mean to put a citation in here?

Originally Posted by casebro View Post
um, 99.9% of 100m= 1,000,000 possibilities for variation. And since each of us have say. only 100, that is 1M^100. (first snp, 1/1m. Second snp the same, 1M^100, for 1/1,000,000,000,000 have the same combinaton of TWO. . I think that is 1/trillion. 99.9% the same = we are all grossly different.
No, we're grossly identical. We share 99.9 percent of our DNA and we're all distinct individuals. Some of those individuals are broadly grouped together as races. What is your point?

Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I don't know why you people won't admit the possibility of 'races'. (Actually I do, but I know more genetics than I do psychology or Poly-Sci. Or Poly-Psych? )
There are races because we have defined groups of individuals as races. Yes, people living in different geographical areas will share clusters of genes with each other in a statistically significant way. This creates metabolic differences in populations. How does that make them separate races? There is no bright line. There never was.

But if you think there were "pure" races living down there in Africa - what were the pure races, and how many were there?
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