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Old 22nd September 2020, 02:43 PM   #1
JTF
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JFK Conspiracy Theories VIII

Mod Info This is a continuation from Part VII. As is usual the split point is arbitrary and participants are free to quote from, and refer and respond to, posts in earlier threads in the series.
Posted By:Agatha




Speaking of Oliver Stone, he appears to have gotten a second wind in regards to the JFK Case. In the past 10 months, he has given several interviews where he regurgitates the same debunked nonsense he put forth in both his 1991 film and his subsequent speaking tour. Stone also remains hypersensitive to any critiques of his flawed research and/or conclusions.

Last edited by Agatha; 1st October 2020 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 08:11 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by JTF View Post
Speaking of Oliver Stone, he appears to have gotten a second wind in regards to the JFK Case. In the past 10 months, he has given several interviews where he regurgitates the same debunked nonsense he put forth in both his 1991 film and his subsequent speaking tour. Stone also remains hypersensitive to any critiques of his flawed research and/or conclusions.
That's no shock.

I'm surprised he hasn't gone in Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut" direction with his movies.
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Old 24th September 2020, 10:47 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
Unfortunately a lot of people think JFK is a documentary.
Those same people think this forum is objective and willing to discuss positions without ignoring opposing viewpoints.
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Old 24th September 2020, 11:04 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
Those same people think this forum is objective and willing to discuss positions without ignoring opposing viewpoints.
It's not about ignoring opposing viewpoints, it's about separating the facts from speculation and lies. The problem with the world of JFK-CTs is that they've become dogmatic fantasies that serve as a foundation for a world view that believes there is a conspiracy behind everything.

In this fantasy world the facts are irrelevant due to the thesis that says, "If the government lied about X,Y.& Z then it must also have lied about A,B, & C". This thinking handicaps the believers in CT from the beginning sending them down multiple rabbit holes at once searching for a more acceptable version of the truth that is in alignment with their own.
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Old 24th September 2020, 11:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
Those same people think this forum is objective and willing to discuss positions without ignoring opposing viewpoints.
And others make stuff up as they go along.
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Old 24th September 2020, 11:47 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
Those same people think this forum is objective and willing to discuss positions without ignoring opposing viewpoints.
I'd love if you could debate without ignoring opposing viewpoints.

When do you intend to start?

Here's just five examples over a period of a few days when you were a more active poster here of you raising an issue just to drop it after the actual facts of the case were posted (I could cite several dozen more) :

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=733

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=734

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=741

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=742

And of course, there's this memorable one where you tried to lecture me on the different between a magazine housing and a trigger guard, not understanding what Oswald's Mannlicher Carcano even looked like, apparently:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=747

Do you think we forgot about your prior arguments that you never supported with evidence and went nowhere? And ignored the opposing viewpoints?

I summarized where we ended up here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=768
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Other
I have made comments and you and others have not been successful in rebutting them...

Originally Posted by HSienzant
Did I overlook one?

Most of your comments have been rebutted by me - with, in many cases, detailed citations and quotations from the evidence. I'm still awaiting your responses to those rebuttal arguments.
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 1st October 2020, 10:46 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
Those same people think this forum is objective and willing to discuss positions without ignoring opposing viewpoints.
You would be correct if the opposing viewpoints were based on hard evidence and facts. You don't provide either, but substitute CT beliefs tainted with nothing but conjecture.
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Old 1st October 2020, 12:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
Those same people think this forum is objective and willing to discuss positions without ignoring opposing viewpoints.
Did you actually read the context of my post?
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Old 2nd October 2020, 08:46 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by No Other View Post
Those same people think this forum is objective and willing to discuss positions without ignoring opposing viewpoints.
So just a drive-by posting, was it then?

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 2nd October 2020, 10:15 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
So just a drive-by posting, was it then?

Hank
The dog ate his "evidence".
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Old 2nd October 2020, 11:17 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
So just a drive-by posting, was it then?

Hank
They need to confer with all the luminaries of firearms manufacturing that they are related to.
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Old 2nd October 2020, 03:58 PM   #12
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Let me ask a question then as nothing is happening.

Besides the possibility of the Cuban inspiration that we beat to death are there any other details or points that remains obscure but might have influenced or 'directed' Oswald in his course of action?

What was the best theory on who the umbrella man was?
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Old 2nd October 2020, 04:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Let me ask a question then as nothing is happening.

Besides the possibility of the Cuban inspiration that we beat to death are there any other details or points that remains obscure but might have influenced or 'directed' Oswald in his course of action?

What was the best theory on who the umbrella man was?
Louis Witt. He was found by the HSCA investigation in 1978 and testified before Congress.

His testimony is here:
https://www.history-matters.com/arch...Vol4_0217a.htm

He was needling the President about his father's policies toward Hitler when Joseph Kennedy was Ambassador to England. The whole Neville Chamberlain / umbrella association.

John McAdams has an article here with some details about Witt:
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/organ3.htm
And some more here:
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dealey.htm

And here's a conspiracy theorist actually being reasonable about the Umbrella Man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuoZWb9gqv0

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 2nd October 2020 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 2nd October 2020, 07:08 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Louis Witt. He was found by the HSCA investigation in 1978 and testified before Congress.

His testimony is here:
https://www.history-matters.com/arch...Vol4_0217a.htm

He was needling the President about his father's policies toward Hitler when Joseph Kennedy was Ambassador to England. The whole Neville Chamberlain / umbrella association.

John McAdams has an article here with some details about Witt:
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/organ3.htm
And some more here:
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dealey.htm

And here's a conspiracy theorist actually being reasonable about the Umbrella Man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuoZWb9gqv0

Hank
God!! Do conspiracy nut jobs have no originality!? In the past year I have read in conspiracy books and on line all sorts of crap about "Umbrella Man" which I could not take seriously in the slightest. And here I find out this was dealt with more than 40 years ago!!!!

Talk about pressing the reset button!!!!!
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Old 2nd October 2020, 07:59 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Louis Witt. He was found by the HSCA investigation in 1978 and testified before Congress.

His testimony is here:
https://www.history-matters.com/arch...Vol4_0217a.htm

He was needling the President about his father's policies toward Hitler when Joseph Kennedy was Ambassador to England. The whole Neville Chamberlain / umbrella association.

John McAdams has an article here with some details about Witt:
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/organ3.htm
And some more here:
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dealey.htm

And here's a conspiracy theorist actually being reasonable about the Umbrella Man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuoZWb9gqv0

Hank
For an alternative theory, watch Netflix' "The Umbrella Academy". Not a bad show. (For those not familiar, it is pure fiction of a science fiction/superhero genre, but I thought it was cute that they managed to incorporate one very famous umbrella into their show.)

Sorry. I haven't popped into a Kenneday assassination thread in ages. Glad to see nothing has changed.
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Old 2nd October 2020, 09:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
God!! Do conspiracy nut jobs have no originality!? In the past year I have read in conspiracy books and on line all sorts of crap about "Umbrella Man" which I could not take seriously in the slightest. And here I find out this was dealt with more than 40 years ago!!!!

Talk about pressing the reset button!!!!!
Fringe reset is the greatest strategy they have along with never throwing away anything no matter how stupid.
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Old 2nd October 2020, 09:22 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Louis Witt. He was found by the HSCA investigation in 1978 and testified before Congress.

His testimony is here:
https://www.history-matters.com/arch...Vol4_0217a.htm

He was needling the President about his father's policies toward Hitler when Joseph Kennedy was Ambassador to England. The whole Neville Chamberlain / umbrella association.

John McAdams has an article here with some details about Witt:
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/organ3.htm
And some more here:
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dealey.htm

And here's a conspiracy theorist actually being reasonable about the Umbrella Man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuoZWb9gqv0

Hank
Thanks

Ah, yes I remember it faintly now. I stopped reading JFK stuff once the book Case Closed came out. I stop by on occasion to watch the Bedlam.
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Old 3rd October 2020, 08:17 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
God!! Do conspiracy nut jobs have no originality!?
Pretty much none. They constantly deal with statements taken out of context or misunderstandings of the evidence (deliberate or otherwise) from many of the original authors back in the mid-1960s. If you watched the last video in my prior email, you'll note that the umbrella man issue was first raised in 1967 in Josiah Thompson's book SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS. It was resolved in 1978 by the HSCA. That's pretty much standard fare, as most all of the conspiracy claims raised by the original generation of critics have been exposed as erroneous.

But if they didn't recycle these claims, they wouldn't have much to discuss.

There is an occasional outlier theory advanced, like Robert Morningstar's Tippit's autopsy photos were substituted for JFKs, or Bob Harris' theory that there was a shot at Zapruder frame 285, but even both of those theories are at least 20 years old now.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto
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Old 3rd October 2020, 11:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Pretty much none. They constantly deal with statements taken out of context or misunderstandings of the evidence (deliberate or otherwise) from many of the original authors back in the mid-1960s. If you watched the last video in my prior email, you'll note that the umbrella man issue was first raised in 1967 in Josiah Thompson's book SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS. It was resolved in 1978 by the HSCA. That's pretty much standard fare, as most all of the conspiracy claims raised by the original generation of critics have been exposed as erroneous.

But if they didn't recycle these claims, they wouldn't have much to discuss.

There is an occasional outlier theory advanced, like Robert Morningstar's Tippit's autopsy photos were substituted for JFKs, or Bob Harris' theory that there was a shot at Zapruder frame 285, but even both of those theories are at least 20 years old now.

Hank
In fairness I have never read any CT book, but while reviewing the video this morning, I can't find anything in frame 285 that would suggest a shot. Would anyone enlighten me on what was possibly observed allegedly.
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Old 3rd October 2020, 12:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
In fairness I have never read any CT book, but while reviewing the video this morning, I can't find anything in frame 285 that would suggest a shot. Would anyone enlighten me on what was possibly observed allegedly.
Bob shows up here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...279669&page=42

IIRC, he claims 4 shots from 2 shooters or two shooters fired simultaneously to make it appear as one hit, or something like that.

Here Bob talks about 285:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1723

Jay explains Bob:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post10781713

Last edited by Elagabalus; 3rd October 2020 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 4th October 2020, 06:07 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Bob shows up here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...279669&page=42

IIRC, he claims 4 shots from 2 shooters or two shooters fired simultaneously to make it appear as one hit, or something like that.

Here Bob talks about 285:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1723

Jay explains Bob:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post10781713

It is no wonder why he got beat up around here. Does he realize that the bullets travel faster than the sound waves generated by the bullets?
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Old 4th October 2020, 09:35 PM   #22
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Okay let me fan the flames a bit. What was the most seriously stupid and irrational CT that was ever presented, and worse yet, believed by far too many people?
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Old 4th October 2020, 09:44 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Okay let me fan the flames a bit. What was the most seriously stupid and irrational CT that was ever presented, and worse yet, believed by far too many people?
The international Jewish conspiracy theory, I would guess, especially on the "believed by far too many people" count.
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Old 5th October 2020, 03:13 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Okay let me fan the flames a bit. What was the most seriously stupid and irrational CT that was ever presented, and worse yet, believed by far too many people?
JFK body alteration by David Lifton.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 5th October 2020, 08:34 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
JFK body alteration by David Lifton.

Hank
Oh yeah the body snatchers and lost brain one! That was steeped in idiocy. Thanks for reminding me.
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Old 5th October 2020, 08:41 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Okay let me fan the flames a bit. What was the most seriously stupid and irrational CT that was ever presented, and worse yet, believed by far too many people?
I wonder if I misinterpreted the question. Did you mean the specific sub-theory within the sphere of Kennedy assassination CT's?

It's so hard to judge because it's so hard to see how many people actually believe any particular conspiracy theory. A typical CT believer seems to throw out every variation all at once, despite the numerous contradictions inherent in them. As for the people who push those theories, it's so hard to say whether they even really believe it themselves. Some of them are just clearly trying to cash in on a sucker's market.

That being said, I think the body alteration one is hard to top. It appears that some people sincerely believe it, possibly including Lifton himself.

The Clay Shaw one is also pretty nutty, and that one got all the way to a jury. not to mention being the centerpiece of a zillion dollar movie with a big name movie star. There's just no evidence of any connection whatsoever to the assassination.
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Old 5th October 2020, 12:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Okay let me fan the flames a bit. What was the most seriously stupid and irrational CT that was ever presented, and worse yet, believed by far too many people?
My vote was the "Fake Oswald Body Double":

Quote:
n 1975, he self-published Khrushchev Killed Kennedy, in which he alleged that a “look-alike” Soviet agent had killed Kennedy, not Oswald. Eddowes believed the KGB had trained a body-double named Alec to assume Oswald’s identity. This agent met the young Marina Prusakova at a dance in Minsk, married her six weeks later, and returned to America in 1962 with his wife and infant daughter. He was such a dead ringer for Oswald, “Alec” was able to fool Oswald’s own mother.

His mission: Blend in, wait for the right moment, kill the president, and die in the chaos that followed.

Evidence of the switch? Eddowes lists several specific “inconsistencies” between Oswald’s Marine Corps medical records and his autopsy report. Eddowes proposed that Oswald’s body should be exhumed to prove that the man buried in Fort Worth’s Rose Hill Cemetery was not Oswald but his doppelganger Soviet substitute, Alec.
Source: https://narratively.com/digging-up-lee-harvey-oswald/

They actually dug to poor guy up to confirm that it was Lee Oswald.

Spoiler Alert: It Was.
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Old 5th October 2020, 02:36 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
JFK body alteration by David Lifton.

Hank
Back a few months ago when you guys forced me to get back into this,

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post13104190

my brother* made a startling admission. He had once had dinner with some JFK conspiracy guy. Quickly I rattled off some names. "No, no, those don't sound right" he replied furrowing his brow. "It was ... David something."

"David Lifton!" I yelled! "Dude you hit the big time. Why didn't you tell me this before! Just think of all the street cred that I would get on the JFK Conspiracies Theories Forum! I could have been a contender!"


*autographs available upon request. That's my brother's autograph not Lifton's.
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Old 8th October 2020, 09:01 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Okay let me fan the flames a bit. What was the most seriously stupid and irrational CT that was ever presented, and worse yet, believed by far too many people?
I'm still going with the guy who gave me a little slip of paper when I was in DC that claimed that Jackie did it with a gun hidden in a stuffed white dog.
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Old 8th October 2020, 09:02 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
JFK body alteration by David Lifton.

Hank
I started reading Best Evidence but didn't get far after the part of trying to interpret all the smudges in every photo as a shooter, so I never even got to the body alteration part.
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Old 8th October 2020, 09:22 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I started reading Best Evidence but didn't get far after the part of trying to interpret all the smudges in every photo as a shooter, so I never even got to the body alteration part.
But it got so many five star reviews on Amazon, so it must be true!

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Evidence...&sortBy=recent

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 8th October 2020, 10:36 AM   #32
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I started reading Best Evidence but didn't get far after the part of trying to interpret all the smudges in every photo as a shooter, so I never even got to the body alteration part.
Lifton talks about analyzing the grainy Zapruder film photos published in LIFE magazine to determine if there was evidence of a second shooter that could be gleaned from the reactions of the victims. He thought he saw something in the way Governor Connally's shoulder was driven down during the shooting, and of course, he thought the President's backward head snap was evidence of a shot from the right front. He didn't seem troubled by the fact that the President and Governor weren't thrown in any direction by the other bullet that struck both men.

But it occurs to me you may be talking about references to Ray Marcus, an early critic of the Warren Commission whom Lifton was acquainted with and whom Lifton mentions several times in his BEST EVIDENCE book.

Marcus would try to analyze photo reproductions if that was all he could get his hands on, rather than stick with first generation photographs as source material. Marcus admitted he had no expertise in photoanalysis or any of the subjects he opined on in his testimony to the New Orleans Grand Jury[1], but he blew-up and analyzed grainy newsprint photos regardless. This led to some rather comic incidents, not covered in Lifton's book, but noted here in an article on John McAdams website:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/toobig.htm

Quote:
One of the best stories is told by Bill Gurvich who worked for Jim Garrison before quitting: "He (Raymond Marcus) came in the office and he had some large blowups of what he said was the picket fence area in Dallas, in Dealey Plaza. And these photographs would support what Garrison was saying about multiple assassins. Behind the fence. Behind the wall. So these photographs had been enlarged so many times that they looked like a checkerboard - they were black and white squares. Which was a printer's screen, enlarged. You couldn't distinguish anything. I joked with them when they showed it to me, and I said it looked like a Purina checkerboard sign." [99]
_______
99. American Grotesque, pp. 536. Ultimately, Marcus took the photo out onto the street so that they could look at the photo from the window. That didn't help, either!
Hank
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1 https://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/g...pdf/Marcus.pdf
"We are talking about photographic evidence and I am not a photographer. And I am talking about ballistics ... and I am not a ballistician."
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 8th October 2020 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Corrected Marcus link
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Old 8th October 2020, 11:47 AM   #33
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
My vote was the "Fake Oswald Body Double":



Source: https://narratively.com/digging-up-lee-harvey-oswald/

They actually dug to poor guy up to confirm that it was Lee Oswald.

Spoiler Alert: It Was.
Yeah, that's a good one too.

It got its start because like in any well publicized incident, people convince themselves they saw that guy somewhere, and come forward and report it. So we have a whole slew of Elvis sightings, for example, after the death of Elvis. And so it was for Oswald. After he was arrested for shooting JFK, his image was on TV and in newspapers worldwide. And well-meaning people came forward to claim, "Yeah, I saw Oswald". But in most cases, it couldn't have been Oswald because he was known to be elsewhere. Like he was reported to be buying trucks in the US when he was actually in Russia at the time. Or taking a test drive when he supposedly didn't drive.

Those reports were dutifully recorded by the FBI and many of them were published in the Warren Commission volumes. And that was pretty much the end of it, but some of the earliest critics (like Harold Weisberg) devoted a bit of space to these "mysterious" sightings. Then one critic decided there was a book in those mistaken identity reports and that became:

The Second Oswald by Richard Popkin:
https://www.amazon.com/SECOND-Startl.../dp/B000J0VUL4

And that led to the book you reference (and the actual digging up of Oswald's body to confirm it was him):
The Oswald File by Michael Eddowes:
https://www.amazon.com/Oswald-File-M.../dp/0517530554

And this book which utilized almost every document referencing Oswald to argue for two Oswalds from an early age (and two different women as Oswald's mother, as well!):
Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong
https://www.amazon.com/Harvey-Lee-Jo.../dp/0974509701

And then this Johnny-come-lately:
Doppleganger by George Schwimmer
https://www.amazon.com/DOPPELGANGER-.../dp/1530364981

This is apparently a little cottage industry within the JFK assassination conspiracy genre. There may be more Oswald sightings to mine, so look for more books on this subject at a book store seller near you.

John McAdams website gives some more information on this here:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/2oswalds.htm

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 8th October 2020 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 9th October 2020, 12:51 AM   #34
TahiniBinShawarma
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Okay let me fan the flames a bit. What was the most seriously stupid and irrational CT that was ever presented, and worse yet, believed by far too many people?
I'm gonna have to go with John Armstrong's there was a CIA program that had 2 Lee Oswalds, and 2 Marguerites. One set American and one set Russian speaking immigrants.
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Old 9th October 2020, 06:45 AM   #35
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
But it occurs to me you may be talking about references to Ray Marcus, an early critic of the Warren Commission whom Lifton was acquainted with and whom Lifton mentions several times in his BEST EVIDENCE book. [/url]
All I remember is that Lifton talked about it in early chapters in his book, and I couldn't take it seriously by that point. Badge man and crap like that.
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Old 9th October 2020, 03:33 PM   #36
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
All I remember is that Lifton talked about it in early chapters in his book, and I couldn't take it seriously by that point. Badge man and crap like that.
Ray Marcus was fixated on the head snap and the grassy knoll as the source of the shot that drove JFK backwards from very early on. He was responsible for blowing up photos of the fence line from copies of the Moorman photo and claiming a shooter was visible in those photos. It may be that you're recalling. However, there's no reference to Badgeman in Lifton's name index or subject index.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 10th October 2020, 07:43 AM   #37
bknight
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Ray Marcus was fixated on the head snap and the grassy knoll as the source of the shot that drove JFK backwards from very early on. He was responsible for blowing up photos of the fence line from copies of the Moorman photo and claiming a shooter was visible in those photos. It may be that you're recalling. However, there's no reference to Badgeman in Lifton's name index or subject index.

Hank
I remember viewing the grainy shot from the Moorman and could not see anyone in the image. It was all hocus pocus.
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Old 13th October 2020, 08:48 AM   #38
HSienzant
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The New York Football Giants have launched a "Giant Hero" program.

https://view.email.nygfootball.net/?...c848c624f4b78e

Should I nominate Lee Harvey Oswald? Some people think he brought a "Giant Hero" three foot long sandwich to the Depository in that paper sack, instead of his rifle.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto
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Old 13th October 2020, 11:50 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
The New York Football Giants have launched a "Giant Hero" program.

https://view.email.nygfootball.net/?...c848c624f4b78e

Should I nominate Lee Harvey Oswald? Some people think he brought a "Giant Hero" three foot long sandwich to the Depository in that paper sack, instead of his rifle.

Hank
A sandwich that he spent the entire morning eating, and it made him sick so he left work early because nobody wants to use the work men's room when you have diarrhea. This forced him to take the taxi after the bus was caught in traffic. The toilet at the rooming house must have been clogged thus explaining why he left the house to go downtown to search for a restroom. Obviously he couldn't hold it and snuck into the movie theater to use the men's room. He stayed because he knew he'd have to use it again soon.

I hereby copyright "The Sandwich Theory" and my e-book will be available soon on Amazon.
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Old 1st November 2020, 12:40 PM   #40
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Today is the anniversary of the coup and assassination of Diem in Vietnam. It's important because it drove the US involvement deeper into Vietnam's civil war, and it is relevant to the JFK assassination CT's because they are ALL founded upon the myth that JFK hated the CIA, and wanted to smash it into little pieces.

The truth is that JFK expanded the CIA's reach beyond its charter.

The National Security Archives just released a report along with the original, newly declassified documents from the JFK NSC which show that JFK was directly involved in the decision to launch and back a coup than previously stated.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-b...8-6e40ae0d7697


Quote:
*President John F. Kennedy was more disposed, than previously understood, to support actions that might change the leadership in South Vietnam.

*Kennedy was personally aware of the pro-Diem views of Frederick E. Nolting, Lodge’s predecessor as ambassador, strengthening the impression that he included Nolting in White House deliberations—and personally engaged him in colloquy about Saigon events—partly to build a case that all sides in this debate had been heard.

*White House conversations took place without any principal figures changing their minds about the Saigon situation.

*When South Vietnamese military officers renewed their contacts with CIA operatives in early October, the Vietnamese immediately raised the option of assassination.

*Vietnamese figure Ngo Dinh Nhu, brother of leader Diem, remained the prime target of American maneuvers. Nhu’s attempts to fend off criticism or ingratiate himself with Washington failed.
The report details RFK's opposition to the coup.

The other reason I'm posting this is that THIS WHAT A REAL ASSASSINATION CONSPIRACY LOOKS LIKE. The Diem assassination has been fully and accurately revealed since the late 1960s in the press with witnesses and agents speaking on the record about what happened long before the first documents were declassified.

Unlike the JFK assassination CTs, the story never changed, the facts never changed, and with each new declassified document the story only became more solid.
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