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Tags Jacinda Ardern , New Zealand elections , New Zealand issues , New Zealand politics

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Old 17th October 2020, 01:18 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
All taken off the Nationals I reckon. So no influence.
Pretty much, but don't underestimate the number of Blue voters switching to Red
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Old 17th October 2020, 01:56 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
A land tax is not a wealth tax or a CGT.

It can be formatted in a variety of ways but there is no escape.

It will deliver many appropriate market signals.

It could involve easily described exclusions.
So she just lies again.

Awesome
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Old 17th October 2020, 02:03 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
So she just lies again.

Awesome
Yes, that evil woman who lacks the leadership skills of Trump or Johnson.....
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Old 17th October 2020, 02:26 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes, that evil woman who lacks the leadership skills of Trump or Johnson.....
She has plenty of orator and speech skills.

She is in fact awesome at it.

She just has no idea how to run a country.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 17th October 2020, 02:37 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Nope, not at all. For mine, that is normal.

I would find it weird (and unacceptable) if I were NOT to be allowed to determine who I give my material possessions to.
When you are dead you don't own anything, if you want your family to have some of your wealth nothing stops you giving away your stuff when you are alive.
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Old 17th October 2020, 03:02 AM   #86
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Seems there are one or two people in NZ who don't think her entirely a failure.
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Old 17th October 2020, 03:36 AM   #87
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Yep, she does alright but a few of us have been hiding our light under the bushel.
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Old 17th October 2020, 04:17 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
When you are dead you don't own anything, if you want your family to have some of your wealth nothing stops you giving away your stuff when you are alive.
See post #45
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Old 17th October 2020, 04:29 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
She has plenty of orator and speech skills.

She is in fact awesome at it.
She emphatically shown (twice) that she also knows how to handle a crisis.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
She just has no idea how to run a country.
I think she has a better idea than Trump or Boris. Mind you, that's a very low bar to clear - you or I could clear than one.

Keep in mind that the PM doesn't actually "run the country", the government does that. She isn't a President, she can't make unilateral decisions or fire individuals in departments such as Police and Armed Forces. She isn't the Commander in Chief, and she does not appoint judges.
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Old 17th October 2020, 04:47 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
She emphatically shown (twice) that she also knows how to handle a crisis.







I think she has a better idea than Trump or Boris. Mind you, that's a very low bar to clear - you or I could clear than one.



Keep in mind that the PM doesn't actually "run the country", the government does that. She isn't a President, she can't make unilateral decisions or fire individuals in departments such as Police and Armed Forces. She isn't the Commander in Chief, and she does not appoint judges.
I am totally aware the leader at the end of the day normally does what they are told.

This doesn't change the fact the current lot have done Jack **** in between this.

But am open to your amazing examples of their amazing leadership.

Just let me know what they were..
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Old 17th October 2020, 05:00 AM   #91
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Actually what was your highlight in the last 3 Years.

Might be the CGT. ..oh

Or the end of 90 days trial...oh

Or the losing 3 strikes...oh

Or the rail....yeah

Or the water tax ....oh


Or the extra fuel line to Auckland airport. ..oh

Or the housing.... we probably don't want to go there. As it is just funny given the joke Kiwi build was.

One billion trees.

Govt cars turning electric

Running something as simple as a census.

State housing number waiting list trembling.

Child poverty rising.
But hey. Jacinda is awesome
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 17th October 2020, 09:57 AM   #92
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New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has won a landslide victory in the country's general election.

With all votes tallied, Ms Ardern's centre-left Labour Party won 49.1%, bringing a projected 64 seats and a rare outright parliamentary majority.

The opposition centre-right National Party won 26.8% in Saturday's poll - just 35 seats in the 120-seat assembly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-54519628
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Old 17th October 2020, 09:59 AM   #93
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The Telegraph tweeted

@Telegraph
"Jacinda-mania has taken hold on the Left, but New Zealand's Prime Minister has pursued a disastrous Covid policy," writes @RossjournoClark
Jacinda Ardern is no hero
Jacinda-mania has taken hold on the Left, but New Zealand's Prime Minister has pursued a disastrous Covid policy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...dern-no-hero/?
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Old 17th October 2020, 11:32 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
This election is just astonishing.
I can't imagine why you think it's astonishing - the result was such a foregone conclusion I even posted that they'd get 49% a couple of days ago. They won a couple of rural seats - where did you think the votes were coming from? Plus, I doubt Judith and her Chinese-milk-business-ties-husband poll very well on farms with cows.

There were two mildly surprising - but definitely not astonishing - things last night:

1 - The disrespectful and massively over-rated little social media troll queen who hasn't ever had a job winning Auckland Central. Given the make-up of that seat and its hotbed of vegan latte-drinking, antivax, hemp sandal-wearing nouveau riche, I wasn't surprised at all. Nikki Kate will be having a wry smile this morning, I imagine.

2 - The apparent resurrection of the Maori Party.

If nothing else, it will give them a chance to rid themselves of the appalling racist dickhead, John Tamihere. I made the comment last night that I think he's actually worse than Hone Harawira, because Tamihere hides his true feelings, while Hone will punch you in the face. Better an honest villain than a fraud.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Already stated emphatically that they will not! If they do, they will be gone in 2023
And no politician has ever broken a vow...

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
She just has no idea how to run a country.
Outside of Valdimir Putin, I don't think anyone does.

Labour's problem isn't Jacinda, it's Cabinet.

Grant Robertson is a good and clever Finance Minister, but he has no balls at all, politically. He will not take responsibility for hard decisions.

They have two other effective people in Cabinet - and it's no surprise at all they're the ones spearheading our Covid work: Megan Woods and Chris Hipkins, and Hipkins only really looks quite good because the others are bloody hopeless. Faafoi is probably the best of the rest, and he wouldn't make the 1st XV anywhere else. With a spineless and incompetent Cabinet, there isn't anyone to even think of a plan, let alone implement it.

The only upside is, doing nothing will be better than Collins slash-and-burn approach that the Nats would have taken.

I'm more interested to see who gets the deputy job - that will be the first hurdle for Jacinda, and it might be a tricky one. Davis is a joke, Robertson's too busy, and Megan Woods would provide an all-woman front that won't happen, even though she's actually the logical choice. Very smart, speaks well, thinks clearly. A junior Angela Merkel, but without the total lack of charisma Angela perfected.

Shaw is obvious, but with Chloe winning AC and them getting 10 seats, he will feel he can negotiate some wins that might contravene Jacinda's promises.

Also, with Labour taking over the entire centre, pulling a far-left DPM might not be the wisest strategy.
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Old 17th October 2020, 01:24 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The Telegraph tweeted

@Telegraph
"Jacinda-mania has taken hold on the Left, but New Zealand's Prime Minister has pursued a disastrous Covid policy," writes @RossjournoClark
Jacinda Ardern is no hero
Jacinda-mania has taken hold on the Left, but New Zealand's Prime Minister has pursued a disastrous Covid policy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...dern-no-hero/?
By what metric is New Zealand's Covid policy 'disastrous'? Oh yeah, the one where people don't count.

But if the economy is what matters then the UK's 20.4% contraction is much less of a disaster than New Zealand's 12.2%, right?

Anyway, congratulations to the 1,169,397 Kiwis who voted to continue that Covid policy, and all those who made it a success. They are the real heroes.

Originally Posted by The Atheist
I can't imagine why you think it's astonishing - the result was such a foregone conclusion I even posted that they'd get 49% a couple of days ago.
Your prognostication skills are truly astonishing.

Definition of astonishing
adjective:
extremely surprising or impressive; amazing.

Here's hoping we get a similar result in the US, though with 2 weeks to go I am not counting my chickens.
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Old 17th October 2020, 01:59 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I can't imagine why you think it's astonishing - the result was such a foregone conclusion I even posted that they'd get 49% a couple of days ago.
Astonishing doesn't just mean surprising

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
They won a couple of rural seats - where did you think the votes were coming from? Plus, I doubt Judith and her Chinese-milk-business-ties-husband poll very well on farms with cows.
Nelson, Rangitata, Ilam, Hutt South, East Coast, Hamilton West, Hamilton East, New Plymouth, Otaki, Wanganui, Northcote, Tukituki, Upper Harbour, Wairarapa and Waiariki. That's 15 of their 41 electorate seats; more than a third, and a bit more than "a couple" !

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
There were two mildly surprising - but definitely not astonishing - things last night:

1 - The disrespectful and massively over-rated little social media troll queen who hasn't ever had a job winning Auckland Central. Given the make-up of that seat and its hotbed of vegan latte-drinking, antivax, hemp sandal-wearing nouveau riche, I wasn't surprised at all. Nikki Kate will be having a wry smile this morning, I imagine.
Chloe Swarbrick is great. She's a millennial with excellent social media skills. She is not afraid to say stuff that makes the Old Guard uncomfortable and rattles the cages of polluters. I guess that probably makes her a troll in your eyes. For mine, she is sort of our version of America's AOC - social media savvy, medium to high profile, speaks her mind, dishes out as good and she takes, and doesn't suffer fools gladly.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
2 - The apparent resurrection of the Maori Party.

If nothing else, it will give them a chance to rid themselves of the appalling racist dickhead, John Tamihere. I made the comment last night that I think he's actually worse than Hone Harawira, because Tamihere hides his true feelings, while Hone will punch you in the face. Better an honest villain than a fraud.
100% right

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Shaw is obvious, but with Chloe winning AC and them getting 10 seats, he will feel he can negotiate some wins that might contravene Jacinda's promises.
If things stay as they are, the 49% popular vote represents 53% of the counting vote, and that translates to 64 seats, less the speaker, that's a three majority in Parliament - she wont need the Greens for anything - they will have to come cap in hand if they want any of their policies legislated.
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Last edited by smartcooky; 17th October 2020 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 17th October 2020, 04:37 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
By what metric is New Zealand's Covid policy 'disastrous'?
When it's the Torygraph saying it. They're as bad as Breitbart.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Here's hoping we get a similar result in the US, though with 2 weeks to go I am not counting my chickens.
Be brave, go ahead and count them.

I've been pouring scorn on Republicans for the past couple of weeks - Biden is a done deal and Trump is gone.

His increasing insanity shows very well that he knows it, too.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Nelson, Rangitata, Ilam, Hutt South, East Coast, Hamilton West, Hamilton East, New Plymouth, Otaki, Wanganui, Northcote, Tukituki, Upper Harbour, Wairarapa and Waiariki. That's 15 of their 41 electorate seats; more than a third, and a bit more than "a couple" !
I repeat - when getting almost double National's vote, it's not a surprise.

And only three of those seats are rural, which is what I commented on.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Chloe Swarbrick is great. She's a millennial with excellent social media skills. She is not afraid to say stuff that makes the Old Guard uncomfortable and rattles the cages of polluters. I guess that probably makes her a troll in your eyes. For mine, she is sort of our version of America's AOC - social media savvy, medium to high profile, speaks her mind, dishes out as good and she takes, and doesn't suffer fools gladly.
I'm a huge AOC fan, but have zero time for Swarbrick. Lots of people have been taken in by her and I'm just glad she's in the Greenmunists, where she will never have any say in anything.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
... - she wont need the Greens for anything - they will have to come cap in hand if they want any of their policies legislated.
I'd be surprised if she doesn't want them in her camp, but I agree they won't be able to ask for much.

The big selling point they have is James Shaw, which solves her deputy conundrum, because Davis will be made an absolute fool of if she gives him a try and there's nobody else.
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Old 17th October 2020, 04:51 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The Telegraph tweeted

@Telegraph
"Jacinda-mania has taken hold on the Left, but New Zealand's Prime Minister has pursued a disastrous Covid policy," writes @RossjournoClark
Jacinda Ardern is no hero
Jacinda-mania has taken hold on the Left, but New Zealand's Prime Minister has pursued a disastrous Covid policy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...dern-no-hero/?
The article is behind a paywall, but I can't imagine what they are talking about. I thought that NZ had been quite successful at keeping out Covid?
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Old 17th October 2020, 05:59 PM   #99
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Economic data always takes a while to get finalized so I think it will be at least another year or more before we can really make meaningful comparisons between countries, but here is a comparison of major economies in the second quarter of 2020 (April-June):

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy

Unfortunately it doesn't include either New Zealand or Australia, but their economies contracted by 12.2% and 7% respectively. This means that NZ didn't do much worse than average and the Aussies did a bit better than average, but not the best.

France contracted by 19%, UK by 21%, Canada by 13.5%, Japan by 10%, the USA by 9.5%, Sweden by 8.3%, Norway by 5.3% and South Korea by 3%. So NZ's 12.2% shrinkage is hardly the worst of the lot. Considering the importance of tourism in NZ's economy, it seems like little wonder that they took a fairly large hit, albeit not the biggest hit of the lot.
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Old 17th October 2020, 06:29 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
CGT is not reasonable taxation, and I seriously doubt it will ever be introduced in NZ because the people are against it on every front. Even debating it in this country has done serious harm to the Labour party. Its only the Greens who really want it, and they are a tiny minority (<8%)

"New Zealanders do not want a capital gains tax (CGT) - not on their investment property, not on their farms or businesses, and definitely not on their KiwiSaver."

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...-tax-poll.html
So you guys are going full on capitalist, then? No wonder all the ultra-rich are establishing their hideaways there!
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Old 17th October 2020, 06:33 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
So you guys are going full on capitalist, then? No wonder all the ultra-rich are establishing their hideaways there!
This post simply shows you have no idea that, at least in this country, CGT would impact the lower to middle class far more than it would ever impact the wealthy.
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Old 17th October 2020, 06:40 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Economic data always takes a while to get finalized so I think it will be at least another year or more before we can really make meaningful comparisons between countries, but here is a comparison of major economies in the second quarter of 2020 (April-June):

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy

Unfortunately it doesn't include either New Zealand or Australia, but their economies contracted by 12.2% and 7% respectively. This means that NZ didn't do much worse than average and the Aussies did a bit better than average, but not the best.

France contracted by 19%, UK by 21%, Canada by 13.5%, Japan by 10%, the USA by 9.5%, Sweden by 8.3%, Norway by 5.3% and South Korea by 3%. So NZ's 12.2% shrinkage is hardly the worst of the lot. Considering the importance of tourism in NZ's economy, it seems like little wonder that they took a fairly large hit, albeit not the biggest hit of the lot.
There are still so many variables out there; what was the 3rd quarter like for those countries, and what will the 4th look like? We can see that the arrival of a safe and effective vaccine seems to be receding further into the distance, and the Times wrote today about the fatigue of fighting against this thing (jeez, I hit that wall about two months in).
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Old 17th October 2020, 06:42 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
This post simply shows you have no idea that, at least in this country, CGT would impact the lower to middle class far more than it would ever impact the wealthy.
But if people move there, buy stock and make huge gains you're cool with that? Or would you like stock capital gains to be taxed differently? Because otherwise expect to be flooded with billionaires.
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Old 17th October 2020, 07:39 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
But if people move there, buy stock and make huge gains you're cool with that?
Err, try reading my posts on the subject, starting with

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5&postcount=20

...and while you're at it, look up the meanings of "broad" and "unrealised gain" so that you understand what I am actually saying, instead of what you think I'm saying.

Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Or would you like stock capital gains to be taxed differently? Because otherwise expect to be flooded with billionaires.
New Zealand has never had a CGT, of any kind.... ever, yet I'm not seeing this "flood of billionaires" of which you speak! I wonder why that is?
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Old 17th October 2020, 08:52 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Unfortunately it doesn't include either New Zealand or Australia, but their economies contracted by 12.2% and 7% respectively. This means that NZ didn't do much worse than average and the Aussies did a bit better than average, but not the best.
It's the next couple of quarters that will really show the difference - Aussie's still taking a hit with the Victorian shutdown, while our economy is going very nicely, with all businesses open and only tourism down from where it was in 2019.
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:36 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes, that evil woman who lacks the leadership skills of Trump or Johnson.....
Isn't New Zealand lucky?

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
She has plenty of orator and speech skills.

She is in fact awesome at it.

She just has no idea how to run a country.

Compared to?
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:39 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The Telegraph tweeted

@Telegraph
"Jacinda-mania has taken hold on the Left, but New Zealand's Prime Minister has pursued a disastrous Covid policy," writes @RossjournoClark
Jacinda Ardern is no hero
Jacinda-mania has taken hold on the Left, but New Zealand's Prime Minister has pursued a disastrous Covid policy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...dern-no-hero/?
Unlike those of BuBu, Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro et cetera....
What else would you expect from a libertarian nut?
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:42 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
The article is behind a paywall, but I can't imagine what they are talking about. I thought that NZ had been quite successful at keeping out Covid?
They have been, but a libertarian crank has other opinions; it's perfectly acceptable to let the elderly, the vulnerable and a proportion of everyone die (and suffer long term effects) rather then damped economic growth.
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:49 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
...rather then damped economic growth.
Even that's complete baloney, which makes it all the more laughable.

NZ's economy is going much better than others right now.

So is China's.

It's almost like pursuing an elimination strategy saves lives and protects the economy.

Who'da thunk?
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Old 22nd October 2020, 04:36 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Even that's complete baloney, which makes it all the more laughable.

NZ's economy is going much better than others right now.

So is China's.

It's almost like pursuing an elimination strategy saves lives and protects the economy.

Who'da thunk?
Is my experience libertarians don't think, they filter through their ideology.
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Old 22nd October 2020, 12:33 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Is my experience libertarians don't think, they filter through their ideology.
I don't think that's a one-way street - all politicians succumb to it to some degree.

Jacinda & Labour in NZ are a classic example - they've been given an overwhelming mandate to govern as they see fit. A wide majority of NZ has said "Job well done in the past three years, have three more."

But I'd cheerfully bet my life they won't rock the boat by taking money off those who can afford it and create a system of fairness and equality.

It would cost them votes and they'd be thrown on the scrap-heap of history next election, as well as watch all of their work be rolled back, just as Trump has done in USA.

They're filtering their idea through the ideology of "what will enable us to retain power?"
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