ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags election conspiracies

Reply
Old 13th November 2020, 10:46 PM   #281
Bubba
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,582
Quote:
by Matthew Ellard

Well Bubba didn't know about the 1950's McCarthy Period and falsely claimed "communists" filled up USA universities in the 1970's during the first nuclear weapon limitation treaties......which is hilarious.
Most imaginative, as usual.

None of it is true.
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th November 2020, 10:55 PM   #282
Matthew Ellard
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,397
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Most imaginative, as usual.

None of it is true.
Soooooo..... you were lying again when you claimed communists were filling up USA colleges in the 1970's?

What about your next lie? What date in August did the Chairman of the Federal Election Commission make that quote Bubba?

Matthew Ellard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th November 2020, 10:56 PM   #283
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 17,674
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
My dogs psychic said the electoral college, the senate, the house, and the national archives do the deciding.
Yes, but the media has been projecting the winner for just about ever. It's not a scam, it is what it is, and both sides take advantage. Which is why I asked your age, because it's as if you've never seen it before. Again, in 2016 Kellyanne Con tweeted "Landslide." long before there was an electoral college confirmation. Was that a scam? It's been that way for a long time, and if you don't know that, you are either very young, very naive, or just plain out of touch.
__________________
He must be removed.

George Will on
President Donald J. Trump.
June 1, 2020
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th November 2020, 10:58 PM   #284
Matthew Ellard
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,397
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
My dogs psychic said the electoral college, the senate, the house, and the national archives do the deciding.
Soooo....are you now claiming your dog's psychic is "Q"?

The rest of us normal people think it is the voters who made the decision.

Matthew Ellard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th November 2020, 11:03 PM   #285
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 17,674
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Thank you. I didn't know that one. Archibald B Monroe Jr AKA Bubba.. It may be an old common USAAF WWII nickname.
For Bubba.

Quote:
Joseph Raymond McCarthy (November 14, 1908 – May 2, 1957) was an American politician who served as a Republican U.S. Senator from the state of Wisconsin from 1947 until his death in 1957. Beginning in 1950, McCarthy became the most visible public face of a period in the United States in which Cold War tensions fueled fears of widespread communist subversion.[1] He is known for alleging that numerous communists and Soviet spies and sympathizers had infiltrated the United States federal government, universities, film industry,[2][3] and elsewhere. Ultimately, the smear tactics that he used led him to be censured by the U.S. Senate. The term "McCarthyism", coined in 1950 in reference to McCarthy's practices, was soon applied to similar anti-communist activities. Today, the term is used more broadly to mean demagogic, reckless, and unsubstantiated accusations, as well as public attacks on the character or patriotism of political opponents.[4][5]

Born in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, McCarthy commissioned into the Marine Corps in 1942, where he served as an intelligence briefing officer for a dive bomber squadron. Following the end of World War II, he attained the rank of major. He volunteered to fly twelve combat missions as a gunner-observer, acquiring the nickname "Tail-Gunner Joe". Some of his claims of heroism were later shown to be exaggerated or falsified, leading many of his critics to use "Tail-Gunner Joe" as a term of mockery.[6]
__________________
He must be removed.

George Will on
President Donald J. Trump.
June 1, 2020
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th November 2020, 11:04 PM   #286
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 17,674
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Soooo....are you now claiming your dog's psychic is "Q"?

The rest of us normal people think it is the voters who made the decision.

Well, yeah, that too.
__________________
He must be removed.

George Will on
President Donald J. Trump.
June 1, 2020
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 12:23 AM   #287
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,741
I see US troops just raided SCYTL in Germany to recover “extremely compelling” data detailing vote switching. Just to steal Bubba's thunder. Any day now, credules!
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 12:51 AM   #288
Bubba
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,582
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I see US troops just raided SCYTL in Germany to recover “extremely compelling” data detailing vote switching. Just to steal Bubba's thunder. Any day now, credules!
Hogwash

You know that is BS. Prove it was Dominions' servers
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 12:51 AM   #289
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13,696
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I see US troops just raided SCYTL in Germany to recover “extremely compelling” data detailing vote switching. Just to steal Bubba's thunder. Any day now, credules!
I got my doubts when I read "US troops".
__________________
Ceterum autem censeo fox et amicis esse delendam.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 01:00 AM   #290
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 23,790
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Remember everyone, that Bubba is a serial liar.

The quote was from the GA primary in Aug. Has nothing to do with the Presidential election.

Thanks for that. I thought it was fishy, even for Trump.
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you're right, but would it hurt you to actually provide some information?
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 01:26 AM   #291
Bubba
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,582
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Thanks for that. I thought it was fishy, even for Trump.

Quote:
Chairman of the Federal Election Commission "I do believe there is voter fraud taking place."

He mentioned irregularities in Nevada, so it wasnt Georgia in August.
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 01:33 AM   #292
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 21,826
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
My dogs psychic said the electoral college, the senate, the house, and the national archives do the deciding.
Why do you hate your country?
__________________
A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 04:13 AM   #293
Gorgonian
Thinker
 
Gorgonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 204
I watched it so you don't have to.

So the Hillary quote about conceding lacks context. There is no context in what they showed about what she is even talking about. Does she mean concede the election if he loses? Does she mean concede an inch in the campaign battle? There's a long battle ahead also lacks context. It makes much more sense, without the context, for her to be talking about the campaign, not a lost election scenario.


EDIT TO ADD:
I went searching for some context for her quote. In this article:

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/nat...ances/2393144/

there is a bit of clarification of the context for the quote:


--
“Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch, and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is,” Clinton said in an interview with her former communications director Jennifer Palmieri for Showtime's “The Circus,” which released a clip Tuesday.

The 2016 Democratic presidential nominee predicted that among several scenarios, Republicans are going to try to “mess up absentee balloting” so that they could get a potentially narrow advantage in the Electoral College.

“We've got to have a massive legal operation, I know the Biden campaign is working on that,” she said. “We have to have poll workers, and I urge people, who are able, to be a poll worker. We have to have our own teams of people to counter the force of intimidation that the Republicans and Trump are going to put outside polling places. This is a big organizational challenge, but at least we know more about what they're going to do.”
--

So she's talking about exactly what actually happened, which is what everyone knew was going to happen: Trump trying to discount the absentee ballots because he knew in-person voting would favor him. Her comment not to concede was about election night when it looked like Trump could win because of the in-person advantage. Then, there was a long road ahead of waiting out the counting procedures and the stupid legal challenges.

So, she was right on the money and not at all saying anything that would support the stupid theory Bubba is promoting.

Shocking.

Tip for the future: grabbing sound bites and trying to use them as vague evidence that someone supports your idea is usually bad policy, especially if you don't verify the context beforehand.

Last edited by Gorgonian; 14th November 2020 at 04:30 AM.
Gorgonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 08:22 AM   #294
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 23,790
I'm still curious about that FEC Chairman quote about voter fraud. Now that I know that it's from August, some parts of the story make more sense to me. However, it still leaves a gigantic question.

What was he talking about? It seems like it's a real quote about a real election. From the video clips I saw it doesn't seem to be out of context, at least not grossly so. In other words, it seemed to be a sincere allegation of actual election fraud.

Did the chairman of the FEC actually say that? And was there any basis for his allegation?



(I'll goggle it myself, but I suspect there are people who are more familiar with this already.)
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you're right, but would it hurt you to actually provide some information?
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 08:57 AM   #295
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,775
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I'm still curious about that FEC Chairman quote about voter fraud. Now that I know that it's from August, some parts of the story make more sense to me. However, it still leaves a gigantic question.

What was he talking about? It seems like it's a real quote about a real election. From the video clips I saw it doesn't seem to be out of context, at least not grossly so. In other words, it seemed to be a sincere allegation of actual election fraud.

Did the chairman of the FEC actually say that? And was there any basis for his allegation?



(I'll goggle it myself, but I suspect there are people who are more familiar with this already.)
I've just had a look, and there is an interview with a guy called Trey Trainor, who is a FEC. He does actually say the election is illegitimate. However, as always, context is everything.
They are looking at a video of the counting process, and speculating about what they think they can see. It's about moving the counting boxes back, and he says that, if that has happened, then the count is compromised, and that he does believe that has happened.
As far as I can tell, this is just based on his interpretation of the video he's watching, and seems to be his personal opinion, rather than an official conclusion. The news item is titled 'allegations' as well, to emphasise that that's what these are- allegations.
It's also worth noting that the guy is a Trump campaign lawyer. His personal opinion needs to be considered in that light.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/t.../06/id/995772/
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 09:04 AM   #296
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 23,790
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I've just had a look, and there is an interview with a guy called Trey Trainor, who is a FEC. He does actually say the election is illegitimate. However, as always, context is everything.
They are looking at a video of the counting process, and speculating about what they think they can see. It's about moving the counting boxes back, and he says that, if that has happened, then the count is compromised, and that he does believe that has happened.
As far as I can tell, this is just based on his interpretation of the video he's watching, and seems to be his personal opinion, rather than an official conclusion. The news item is titled 'allegations' as well, to emphasise that that's what these are- allegations.
It's also worth noting that the guy is a Trump campaign lawyer. His personal opinion needs to be considered in that light.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/t.../06/id/995772/
I saw that video clip.

It seems like the typical sort of irresponsible comment that one might expect from a Trump appointee. A decent human being would comment something along the lines of "This seems like a very serious item and suggests the need for some investigation, but I can't comment further without a greater understanding of the situation. I will be (doing whatever it is the FEC does) to investigate this to ensure that all US elections are administered fairly and accurately." Instead, he shoots off his mouth based on a few seconds of video and questions the legitimacy of an election.

That's not what I want from my executive branch of government. And 67 days from now, things will get better.
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you're right, but would it hurt you to actually provide some information?
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 09:51 AM   #297
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,862
The Federal Election Commission is empowered only to enforce campaign finance laws. They have absolutely nothing to do with counting ballots or running elections. The FEC Chairman's opinion about whether ballots are being counted properly or whether fraud occurred has absolutely nothing to do with his job or the duties of the commission. It's just another Trump toadie misusing his office to stir up meaningless doubt.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 10:59 AM   #298
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,741
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I see US troops just raided SCYTL in Germany to recover “extremely compelling” data detailing vote switching. Just to steal Bubba's thunder. Any day now, credules!
OK, a little update on this whole SCYTL thing. It has blown wide open since I first saw reference to it in a CNN YT comment section last night! Apparently, Congressman Louie Gohmert is the originator of this story.

Quote:
The Texas lawmaker said in an interview with Newsmax TV that US military forces seized the company’s server in Frankfurt, Germany. Gohmert said there are some who believe it’s U.S. intelligence “that manipulated all this” to cover themselves.
https://greatgameindia.com/us-milita...scytl-germany/

And it looks like attorney Lin Wood is going all in.

Quote:
In a Tweet, Lin Wood, a Trump team lawyer posted the following message on his Twitter; “Biden & his criminal cronies are not going to sleep well tonight. Well, Biden might because he probably forgot the name Scytl. His co-conspirators know name well. They also know the name Paragon, a company which purchased Scytl in 10/20. Every will be revealed.”
https://www.ptnewsnetwork.com/fact-c...ing-and-fraud/


Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 11:03 AM   #299
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,775
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
The Federal Election Commission is empowered only to enforce campaign finance laws. They have absolutely nothing to do with counting ballots or running elections. The FEC Chairman's opinion about whether ballots are being counted properly or whether fraud occurred has absolutely nothing to do with his job or the duties of the commission. It's just another Trump toadie misusing his office to stir up meaningless doubt.
Oh, wow- I did not know that.
Well that does rather change things, doesn't it?
What say you, Bubba? Credibility somewhat undermined, I think. Got any actual evidence of voter fraud in Georgia?
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 12:39 PM   #300
Bubba
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,582
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Oh, wow- I did not know that.
Well that does rather change things, doesn't it?
What say you, Bubba? Credibility somewhat undermined, I think. Got any actual evidence of voter fraud in Georgia?


The FEC Chairman's opinion is the first I heard of it, which apparently conflicts with Jay Utah's opinion. Sounds like he might reject the FEC Chairman's opinion.

Do you allow the FEC Chairman to have an opinion?
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 01:11 PM   #301
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,775
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
The FEC Chairman's opinion is the first I heard of it, which apparently conflicts with Jay Utah's opinion. Sounds like he might reject the FEC Chairman's opinion.
Thus demonstrating your usual lack of research, then.
Do you accept that the FEC Chairman's opinion on electoral fraud here is of no relevance, given that this opinion is not based on his actual job?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Do you allow the FEC Chairman to have an opinion?
Yes, of course.
Does that mean the election is a fraud? No, at least not from what he said.

Do you allow Hillary Clinton to have an opinion?
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 01:21 PM   #302
Bubba
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,582
This should help with understanding why some Americans believe the Dems lied, cheated and stole the election



We remember the women’s march the day after inauguration.
We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments
We remember “not our president” and the “Resistance…”

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 4. Full list can be seen here, among other place.

Last edited by zooterkin; 16th November 2020 at 06:22 AM.
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 01:23 PM   #303
Bubba
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,582
Quote:
by CY

Do you accept that the FEC Chairman's opinion on electoral fraud here is of no relevance, given that this opinion is not based on his actual job?

Seriously?
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 01:28 PM   #304
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 23,790
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
This should help with understanding why some Americans believe the Dems lied, cheated and stole the election



We remember the women’s march the day after inauguration.
We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments
We remember “not our president” and the “Resistance…”

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 4. Full list can be seen here, among other place.
Don't stop him. He's rolling.
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you're right, but would it hurt you to actually provide some information?

Last edited by zooterkin; 16th November 2020 at 06:23 AM.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 01:32 PM   #305
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,818
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
OK, a little update on this whole SCYTL thing. It has blown wide open since I first saw reference to it in a CNN YT comment section last night! Apparently, Congressman Louie Gohmert is the originator of this story.



https://greatgameindia.com/us-milita...scytl-germany/

And it looks like attorney Lin Wood is going all in.



https://www.ptnewsnetwork.com/fact-c...ing-and-fraud/



Indeed!

https://heavy.com/news/scytl-server-germany-raid/
"During the alleged raid, the company’s servers were removed, Gohmert said. Heavy has been unable to find the original tweet but has seen screenshots. Gohmert admits, “I don’t know the truth,” before referencing the alleged raid. The congressman was unable to provide any proof that the raid took place."
So, no evidence.

There are some huge red flags in this story.

Firstly, there is no way that US military forces would have raided any business in Germany, not even in a combined operation with German Forces. Any such raid would have been carried out by the Deutsche Bundespolizei (German Federal Police), the German equivalent of the FBI. Germany has similar constitutional restrictions that the US has with regards to military personnel being used in civilian matters, except that in Germany, it is strictly and rigidly enforced (they learned the lesson a few decades ago about what can happen when you let the military loose on the streets).

Secondly, there is no evidence this raid even took place - no news reports, no video, no reports at all coming out of Germany other than one tweet, in German, from a German twitter account. All the reports claiming this really happened are only to be found on right wing Trump sycophant sites.

Thirdly, it is very rare for a big company to have its servers located in their own headquarters, and SCYTL is no different. Their servers are spread across at least three data centres in Frankfurt;

Equinix FR5 in Kleyerstrasse
Equinix FR1 in Taubenstrasse
Equinix Rechenzentrum in Kruppstrasse

At least, these three are the only ones I was able to locate, there could be more. In order to "seize" the company's severs, these alleged raids would have needed to be at all three of these data centres, possibly more. That would have gained HUGE attention from the German media. So far.... crickets...
__________________
"Silence is Donald Trump's concession speech" - Lawrence O'Donnell.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 01:39 PM   #306
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 7,994
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
This should help with understanding why some Americans believe the Dems lied, cheated and stole the election



We remember the women’s march the day after inauguration.
We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments
We remember “not our president” and the “Resistance…”

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 4. Full list can be seen here, among other place.
Awww. The bad peeple said bad things about poor widdle Twumpy. Did it hurt its widdle feelings? And yet it's the libruls are supposed to be the thin-skinned little snowflakes...

Perhaps you might take a look at the other side of the ledger?
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015

Last edited by zooterkin; 16th November 2020 at 06:23 AM.
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 01:46 PM   #307
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,862
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
The FEC Chairman's opinion is the first I heard of it, which apparently conflicts with Jay Utah's opinion.
It is not merely my opinion that the U.S. Federal Election Committee's authority is limited to investigating and enforcing only laws relating to the financing of elections. That is simply an easily verified fact, despite a widespread incorrect belief that it has a broader mandate or authority. In the manner of choosing Presidential electors, the states have sovereign authority.

Quote:
Sounds like he might reject the FEC Chairman's opinion.
I have no comment on the substance of Mr Trainor's opinion because I neither know nor care what it is. What I reject is is the insinuated premise that the FEC, either as a body or in the person of its Chairman, has any authority to render a finding on how states process ballots that carries any official weight, or indeed is any better informed than an ordinary person's.

Quote:
Do you allow the FEC Chairman to have an opinion?
Irrelevant. The Federal Election Commission Act doesn't allow the commission to have an official opinion on ballot integrity.

Mr Trainor, the private citizen, can form whatever opinion he wants regarding whether states are processing ballots securely. It has no more official weight than my opinion or yours. If he's trying to deliver it under color of his office, that would be improper use of the office.

The FEC Chairman, in his official capacity, can form and render opinions only in the areas that statute grants him and his commission that authority and discretion. Ballot-counting integrity is not one of those areas. In fact, no office of the federal executive has authority or oversight into how states count ballots for Presidential electors.

You might argue that Mr Trainor's opinion, whatever it may be, is better informed by virtue of his office. That argument would also be unsupported by fact. The FEC conducts its business almost exclusively with the campaign organizations. It has no business with the state and local officials who actually operate the elections. It has no authority to obtain information on ballot counting that isn't freely available already to anyone else. It has no authority to monitor or oversee ballot operations, nor any ongoing requirement to know any more about them than what is common knowledge. Balloting simply does not form any part of what the FEC is concerned with.

Mr Trainor has no greater expertise by virtue of his chairmanship than any one else on that subject. In fact, less these days. The FEC currently lacks a quorum and hence has been unable to conduct any investigations for quite some time. The FEC has essentially stopped obtaining information, even in areas where it's permitted by statute to collect it. There is no reason to suppose his personal opinion is any better informed than mine.

Last edited by JayUtah; 14th November 2020 at 02:06 PM.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 02:03 PM   #308
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,862
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Seriously?
Yes, seriously. Mr Trainor's job is not concerned in any way with balloting. It does not provide him with any more information on the subject than you or I could obtain. It does not grant him authority to deliver his personal opinion about state ballot practices under the color of a U.S. government office.

The Federal Election Commission Act is not a state secret. Anyone can read it and discover for themselves the subject matter on which the FEC is empowered to investigate, judge, and bring charges if needed. It is strictly limited to the financing of campaigns for federal office. And to carry out that duty, the FEC's near-exclusive attention is on campaigns, campaign officials, PACs, and donors. Nothing it does has anything to do with election officials, balloting practices, or the certification of elections.

Unless you can provide more justification than one-word denials, I see no reason to accept Mr Trainor's uninformed, personal opinion as having any more weight or relevance than anyone else's.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 02:11 PM   #309
Bubba
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,582
I see Jay has confirmed the fact his opinion conflicts with the FEC Chairman's opinion, wasting clouds of hot air claiming with a big if that Trainor's title somehow undermines his right to express this opinion of his.

Earlier it was 'because I dislike Trump'....now it is 'because blah blah blah'


A a private citizen, Jay has a right to form whatever opinion he wishes.
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 02:18 PM   #310
Bubba
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,582
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post

Unless you can provide more justification than one-word denials, I see no reason to accept Mr Trainor's uninformed, personal opinion as having any more weight or relevance than anyone else's.
Prove his opinion is uninformed.

Anyway, it is possible he knows as much as you do about the matter, or less, or more.

But was he referring to a Georgia election held in August, or was he referring to the Nov presidential election ?
Bubba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 02:21 PM   #311
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,818
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
The FEC Chairman's opinion is the first I heard of it, which apparently conflicts with Jay Utah's opinion. Sounds like he might reject the FEC Chairman's opinion.

Do you allow the FEC Chairman to have an opinion?
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Seriously?
These posts, and your other replies to Jay Utah, show one thing very clearly, that you have little, if any, understanding of how presidential elections are run in your own country. I am a New Zealander, and I appear to have a better understanding that you do.

Here, for your ongoing education...

https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_Election_Commission

The Federal Election Commission (FEC) is an independent regulatory agency created by Congress in 1975 to administer and enforce the Federal Elections Campaign Act. The FEC is responsible for disclosing campaign finance information, enforcing limits and prohibitions on contributions, and overseeing the public funding of presidential elections
__________________
"Silence is Donald Trump's concession speech" - Lawrence O'Donnell.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 14th November 2020 at 02:24 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 02:25 PM   #312
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,772
this is funny

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
This should help with understanding why some Americans believe the Dems lied, cheated and stole the election
Yes, you have no clue trump supporters project. The president lies, so his dumbed down supporters claim others lie. Not the first time president cult projects.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember the women’s march the day after inauguration.
we? you got a mouse in your pocket? Is the failed cult of trump, aka "we", anti women? Or just upset he can't grab em?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments
lol, he was impeached, and he was guilty, and the Senate failed to get rid of the biggest liar in history.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember “not our president” and the “Resistance…”
what do "we" expect from rational people who the idiot (aka loser.com) in the WH calls "haters and losers", as he lies.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember Maxie Walters telling followers to harass us in restaurants.
So? Who is 'us'.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember the Presidents spokesperson being kicked out a restaurant.
About time people take action against liars for the biggest liar in history. How can she lie to us? Guess you and the mouse in your pocket like to be lied to.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember Trump supporters being physically attacked.
oh? https://imgflip.com/i/2l4e1n

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember Trump supporters getting Doxed, and fired from jobs.
For being idiots, or dumber than dirt cult folloers?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember riots, and looting
In trump's America... why can't trump do better?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember “a comedian” holding up the President’s severed head
was she upset the president did not try to grab her...

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember a play in Central park paid with public funding, showing the killing of President Trump
You mean like fiction, a play?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember Robert de Niro yelling ***** Trump” at the Tony’s and getting a standing ovation.....
Even president's supports and cult agree the president is an idiot, liar, and insane. (windmills cause cancer, evidence)

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union Address.
It was BS.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember the total in the tank move on the mainstream media
?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember the non-stop and live fact checking on our President and his supporters.
Because the president lies constantly.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember non-stop in your face lies and open cover-ups from the media.
Projection!

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember the President and his staff being spied on.
why do you lie like the president?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember five Senators shot on a ballfield.
lol, you can't get the facts right... typical failed president supporter, lies and remembers it wrong...

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember every so-called comedy show turn into nothing but Trump hate fest.
Wrong, they are repeating the presidents' statements, and lies... the president is the hater

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember 95% negative coverage in the news.
Yes, the president's comments are usually negative, stupid, idiotic, lies, and BS - reporting on the president is more like 100 percent negative due to telling the truth about the president... this is funny

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember the state governors asking and getting everything they ask for and then blaming Trump for their problems.
you mean like the president blames Obama... or what - how long have "we" had a mouse in our pocket?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember a Trump top aid verbally assaulted in two DC restaurants.
stick and stones...

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember people banging on the Supreme Court doors.
So? Did the mouse tell you this one?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember that we were called every name in the book for supporting President Trump.
Like the president calling people names?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember that Hollywood said they would leave after Trump was elected but they stayed.
Even the president, who lies all the time, implied he would leave if he lost... he Lost. When and where is he going?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
This list is endless, but you get the idea.
Prove it.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
A party that has been on the attack for 4 long years does not get a free pass."
attacking ignornace, lies and incompetence. Is that bad? Why do you and the mouse in your pocked (we) support the biggest liar in presidential history? Have you figured out JFKjr yet?
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein
"... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK
https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 02:43 PM   #313
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 17,674
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Don't stop him. He's rolling.
From where Bubba stole this without attribution, pretending it is his own.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...52276683266853

Here's how you do that honestly.

Originally Posted by Bubba
This should help with understanding why some Americans believe the Dems lied, cheated and stole the election. Shared from American Patriots.
__________________
He must be removed.

George Will on
President Donald J. Trump.
June 1, 2020

Last edited by Resume; 14th November 2020 at 03:05 PM.
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 02:43 PM   #314
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,818
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
We remember every so-called comedy show turn into nothing but Trump hate fest.
Oh, you mean like this...?

Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?" by Nate White

[i]"A few things spring to mind.

Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
edited for rule 4.

See full article quoted here.
__________________
"Silence is Donald Trump's concession speech" - Lawrence O'Donnell.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by zooterkin; 16th November 2020 at 06:32 AM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 02:45 PM   #315
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,818
Interesting that while the Chairman of the FEC is claimed to have said there was election fraud, other FEC officials disagree.

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/liv...a354e3541b7aa6
__________________
"Silence is Donald Trump's concession speech" - Lawrence O'Donnell.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 03:05 PM   #316
Matthew Ellard
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,397
Dupe

Last edited by Matthew Ellard; 14th November 2020 at 03:06 PM.
Matthew Ellard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 03:38 PM   #317
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,862
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I see Jay has confirmed the fact his opinion conflicts with the FEC Chairman's opinion...
No. I explicitly made no such representation.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 03:46 PM   #318
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,862
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Prove his opinion is uninformed.
No. You're the one who must lay the foundation for testimony you expect to be respected as having special authority. I've shown how Mr Trainor's office cannot be expected to provide any special information that gives weight to his opinion. If you believe that information comes from somewhere, you're the one who has to tell us. You apparently expected us to believe that the FEC Chairman would be more authoritative than usual about balloting practices. That expectation ignores what his job really is.

Quote:
Anyway, it is possible he knows as much as you do about the matter, or less, or more.
And therefore it's possible that my opinion is more or less as informed as his on the subject of state balloting practice. Except I'm not presenting any opinion on that subject, or noting whether it may disagree with anyone else's opinion, or asking it to be taken as dispositive or in any way official to some mandate.

In contrast, you're the one telling us that we can't seriously question the opinion of the FEC Chairman on a matter outside the scope of his office. The burden of proof is yours to establish the foundation for his proffered expertise in balloting and electoral fraud. If you are unwilling, then your source is dismissed as irrelevant.

Quote:
But was he referring to a Georgia election held in August, or was he referring to the Nov presidential election ?
Irrelevant. His opinion on any balloting practice in any election has no more weight than any other layman's until such time as you establish a foundation for it that isn't simply to cite his irrelevant title.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 03:48 PM   #319
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,862
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Interesting that while the Chairman of the FEC is claimed to have said there was election fraud, other FEC officials disagree.

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/liv...a354e3541b7aa6
And neither Ms Weintraub nor Mr Trainor can put the FEC's imprimatur on any opinion regarding physical election security or ballot integrity. This is not what the FEC does.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2020, 03:55 PM   #320
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 3,026
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Prove his opinion is uninformed.
Prove that anyone's claim of electoral or voter fraud that would amount to a Dem conspiracy is anything more than pathetic hand-flapping. Trump lost by a landslide. That's what he said of his own 306 vote win in the electoral college in 2016: landslide. Biden kicked his ass.

There is nothing left -- no hope for Trump to ever be elected again. He's being judged as the biggest jackass in American political history, even as I speak. He will erode like a stain, and be gone. The sooner the better.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

Last edited by eerok; 14th November 2020 at 04:06 PM.
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:56 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.