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Old 21st November 2020, 09:00 AM   #2681
Darat
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I'm expecting a repeat of 2008.

"Biden's in office and look at what a shambles the country is in!"
Well look at all the riots, what has he done about them, absolutely nothing. No wonder the country is such a disaster. Need a no-nonsense, hard nosed business man to take back control for the people and drain the swamp Biden has created.
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Old 21st November 2020, 09:02 AM   #2682
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Surely that is commonplace in civil cases.
Yeah but if it is fraud they want to go after as Trump and others keep saying then electoral fraud is a criminal offence at state and federal level.
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Old 21st November 2020, 09:20 AM   #2683
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Almost. In AZ you can see online when your ballot was received, and when it was counted. As you noted, you can't see who it counted your vote for.
That's what I was referring to when I said "at most they can see if it was counted". Some states only indicate if they received your vote, others will let you know whether or not the received vote was accepted as a valid ballot, others let you know if it was counted.
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Old 21st November 2020, 09:24 AM   #2684
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
That's what I was referring to when I said "at most they can see if it was counted". Some states only indicate if they received your vote, others will let you know whether or not the received vote was accepted as a valid ballot, others let you know if it was counted.
Somewho I read right over that line
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Old 21st November 2020, 10:13 AM   #2685
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I am not a statistician. I gathered the following data for the state of Michigan:
1) Party Shift from 2016 to 2020 Election by Michigan county.
2) Determined which counties used Dominion Voting Machines.

I created two different populations from this data set:

The first Population was Counties that used Dominion voting machines accompanied with their Party Shift Percent.

The second Population was Counties that used voting machines other than Dominion accompanied with their Party Shift Percent.

Shift to the Democrat Party was recorded as positive, whereas shift to the Republican Party was recorded as negative.

Next: I used the F-Test to determine if these two populations have the same standard deviation / variance. The result with a high level of certainty P.001 was that they did have the same std dev / variance.

That allowed me to utilize the two-tailed T-Test for these 2 populations with the same variance. The P result of this T-Test was .105 Which is greater than my chosen Probability threshold of .001 used to determine statistical significance.

Research Hypothesis: The mean of Pop 1 Party Shift is different from the mean of Pop 2 Party Shift.
Null Hypothesis: The mean of Pop 1 Party Shift equals the mean of Pop 2 Party Shift.
Results: Inconclusive (Which is to say the means of Party Shift for Pop 1 & Pop 2 appear to be from the same population. This lends to the belief that the mean of Political Shift votes tallied with Dominion Voting Machines is comparable to the mean of Political Shift votes tallied with voting machines other than Dominion. The lack of difference in party shift is not a reliable indicator of which voting machines were used).
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Old 21st November 2020, 10:22 AM   #2686
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Fail! The Georgia recount was done by hand.

Also, this Lin Wood fruitcake's claim is that Trump really won in a landslide, with 70% of the popular vote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...o-trump-media/

“Donald Trump won, I believe, clearly, a 70 percent-plus landslide election in the nation,” Lin Wood, an Atlanta-area attorney, said on Fox News host Mark Levin's radio show this week. “He probably won over 400 electoral votes.”


For this to be true, Trump would have needed to get around 108 million of the approx 154 million votes so far cast. That would require about 30 million votes to be flipped from Trump to Biden to achieve the current 80 million to 74 million margin.

A quick bit of math (30/108) reveals that is 28% of all the votes cast for Trump - more than one in every four Trump voters had their vote flipped to Biden. Given that American voters can actually check their vote online (and I'm assuming the even the dumbest of Trump voters can still remember who they voted for) then it would not be very hard for any group of Trump supporters to prove this, by simply checking their votes.

* Note that as I keep checking the live results, Biden's lead is still increasing, so the vote flipping would need to still be going on. The FBI could swoop in a seize machines to check them for the alleged vote flipping software - so why has this not happened yet?
Checking votes can confirm that your vote was counted. Can one also confirm who it was counted for? I'm doubtful.
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Old 21st November 2020, 10:25 AM   #2687
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Checking votes can confirm that your vote was counted. Can one also confirm who it was counted for? I'm doubtful.
No. See post 2683.
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Old 21st November 2020, 10:28 AM   #2688
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You do realise that isn't how the justice system works?

Please do explain


You have the floor
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Old 21st November 2020, 10:44 AM   #2689
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Dominion’s Results Tally & Reporting User Guide


Supposedly Dominion's user manual explains, maybe as part of an innocent technical procedure, how to flip votes.


I did not read it, and I dont know which chapter that might be found in. If I see an update with more detail, I will post it.


Quote:
Over the coming days and weeks, OAN will be specifically highlighting how voting irregularities occurred in the 2020 Presidential election. Our investigative team will be referring to specific details in this Dominion Voting’s “Results Tally & Reporting User Guide” dated May 28, 2019. We’re pleased to make this document available to you.


https://www.oann.com/files/UG-RTR-UserGuide-5-11-CO.pdf

https://www.oann.com/dominion/
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Old 21st November 2020, 11:07 AM   #2690
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Dominion’s Results Tally & Reporting User Guide


Supposedly Dominion's user manual explains, maybe as part of an innocent technical procedure, how to flip votes.


I did not read it, and I dont know which chapter that might be found in. If I see an update with more detail, I will post it.

https://www.oann.com/files/UG-RTR-UserGuide-5-11-CO.pdf

https://www.oann.com/dominion/
And yet no one, ABSOLUTELY no one is doing it in court.

And for the 4th time. How do you explain that a one by one manual hand count of 5 million ballots in Georgia came up with the same margin as the Dominion election machines?
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Old 21st November 2020, 11:09 AM   #2691
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Please do explain


You have the floor
I see you don’t.
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Old 21st November 2020, 11:16 AM   #2692
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
And yet no one, ABSOLUTELY no one is doing it in court.

And for the 4th time. How do you explain that a one by one manual hand count of 5 million ballots in Georgia came up with the same margin as the Dominion election machines?
It's like the tides, apparently. You can't explain it.
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Old 21st November 2020, 11:52 AM   #2693
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Bubba, why don't you explain what happened to the Hunter Biden accusations?
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Old 21st November 2020, 11:54 AM   #2694
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
I am not a statistician. I gathered the following data for the state of Michigan:
1) Party Shift from 2016 to 2020 Election by Michigan county.
2) Determined which counties used Dominion Voting Machines.

I created two different populations from this data set:

The first Population was Counties that used Dominion voting machines accompanied with their Party Shift Percent.

The second Population was Counties that used voting machines other than Dominion accompanied with their Party Shift Percent.

Shift to the Democrat Party was recorded as positive, whereas shift to the Republican Party was recorded as negative.

Next: I used the F-Test to determine if these two populations have the same standard deviation / variance. The result with a high level of certainty P.001 was that they did have the same std dev / variance.

That allowed me to utilize the two-tailed T-Test for these 2 populations with the same variance. The P result of this T-Test was .105 Which is greater than my chosen Probability threshold of .001 used to determine statistical significance.

Research Hypothesis: The mean of Pop 1 Party Shift is different from the mean of Pop 2 Party Shift.
Null Hypothesis: The mean of Pop 1 Party Shift equals the mean of Pop 2 Party Shift.
Results: Inconclusive (Which is to say the means of Party Shift for Pop 1 & Pop 2 appear to be from the same population. This lends to the belief that the mean of Political Shift votes tallied with Dominion Voting Machines is comparable to the mean of Political Shift votes tallied with voting machines other than Dominion. The lack of difference in party shift is not a reliable indicator of which voting machines were used).
For someone who is not a statistician, you seem to do pretty well with statistics.

And, this is the sort of analysis that we would be seeing if there were actual evidence of fraud, except the conclusion would be opposite. The lack of such analysis suggest to me that they've really got nothing.
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Old 21st November 2020, 12:22 PM   #2695
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Bob if Chris B was running the Postal service you can rest assured your ballot would have been scanned and confirmed when delivered.

There is no valid reason to bypass a security protocol. That's not acceptable.
This is silly. The “security protocol” is a marketing gimmick, nothing more.
Jesus, do you believe advertising is honest?

I’ve got a bridge if you’re interested.

Every court decision other than Bush v. Gore has strongly emphasized that ballots are received and counted
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Old 21st November 2020, 12:31 PM   #2696
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I have concluded that there is no evidence of voter fraud on a scale sufficient to change the result. Biden wins.
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Old 21st November 2020, 12:36 PM   #2697
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Surely that is commonplace in civil cases.
I can't imagine a case where a court would accept evidence of a serious crime had been committed where that crime had not been reported to the police.

If I went to court to sue my neighbor and my evidence was an affidavit saying that he was a major drug dealer and they asked if this had been reported to the police and I said "Yeah nah I don't trust the police" then I highly doubt they would say "Fine, no problem, we'll proceed on the basis that your affidavit is genuine and that your neighbor is a major drug dealer."
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Old 21st November 2020, 12:52 PM   #2698
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
I can't imagine a case where a court would accept evidence of a serious crime had been committed where that crime had not been reported to the police.
Heck, Judge Judy won't issue judgments against a defendant if the plaintiff is accusing them of a felony. That's usually in cases where there was some sort of check fraud - she won't let the plaintiff get money unless they show they reported the crime to the police.

Yeah, I know Judge Judy isn't a real court.... but just illustrating a point.
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:04 PM   #2699
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
Yeah, I know Judge Judy isn't a real court.... but just illustrating a point.
I just took a moment to imagine Rudy standing before Judge Judy, and it was pretty funny. You can just imagine the look on her face.

It's important to never forget that the allegations of significant fraud in this election are pure gaslighting.
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:07 PM   #2700
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Liberal hypocrits don't care about the elderly

Breaking News on FOX News

"Liberals want to evict a financially troubled elderly COVID survivor and his family from inner city public housing."
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:09 PM   #2701
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Breaking News on FOX News

"Liberals want to evict a financially troubled COVID survivor and his family from inner city public housing."
Man, they must be soooooo happy to have something other than Trump to talk about.
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:23 PM   #2702
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Man, they must be soooooo happy to have something other than Trump to talk about.
I mean how dare those liberals try and remove a man from a home that he has lived in for 4 years? The poor man just got out of the hospital. How can they be sooo cruel!?
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:25 PM   #2703
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I mean how dare those liberals try and remove a man from a home that he has lived in for 4 years? The poor man just got out of the hospital. How can they be sooo cruel!?
we can't help ourselves . it's part of our evil nature.
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:25 PM   #2704
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Breaking News on FOX News

"Liberals want to evict a financially troubled elderly COVID survivor and his family from inner city public housing."
LOL! Not only that, but he's mentally ill.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 21st November 2020 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:32 PM   #2705
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
You could, but it would be silly.


Al Gore challenged the Florida count on the grounds that there were errors made in counting ballots, and that if properly counted he may have been the winner. That doesn't undermine anything about democracy, or anything except possibly the reliability of certain voting systems.

Donald Trump is saying that massive numbers of fraudulent votes are being cast, that the system is so corrupt that the outcome cannot be trusted, and that our election for the President of the United States is not legal. Moreover, the remedy his lawyers are proposing is to throw out a whole bunch of ballots, and only count the rest. Of course, the ones to be thrown out are for the other guy.

To compare Gore and Trump is simply illogical.
The intent is to prevent ballot stuffing. Michigan law (MCL 168.871(1)) specifies when a precinct is not recountable. A precinct is not recountable if the seal on the ballot box is broken or it otherwise appears the ballots have been tampered with. In that case, the original count stands because you don't want to replace with original count with a recount based on manipulated ballots.

The same holds true if the number of ballots doesn't match the poll list. For example: The poll list show 100 ballots given out. Candidate A gets 51 and Candidate B gets 49. Candidate B asks for a recount. When they open the ballot box, there are 150 ballots. Somebody must have stuffed 50 illegal ballots in the box after the original count. Or maybe there are only 50 ballots. Somebody took 50 ballots out of the box. So you can't do a recount and the original count stands.

If the number of ballots does not match the poll list, there can still be a recount if the county board of canvassers approves. The law says there cannot be a recount in that case only if "the difference is not explained to the satisfaction of the board of canvassers."

There is nothing in the law (that I see) that would prevent the board from asking for an investigation in order to resolve the discrepancy. If there is only a very small discrepancy compared to the number of ballots, the board theoretically could decided that "possible clerical error" is a satisfactory explanation.
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Old 21st November 2020, 01:46 PM   #2706
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
The intent is to prevent ballot stuffing. Michigan law (MCL 168.871(1)) specifies when a precinct is not recountable. A precinct is not recountable if the seal on the ballot box is broken or it otherwise appears the ballots have been tampered with. In that case, the original count stands because you don't want to replace with original count with a recount based on manipulated ballots.

The same holds true if the number of ballots doesn't match the poll list. For example: The poll list show 100 ballots given out. Candidate A gets 51 and Candidate B gets 49. Candidate B asks for a recount. When they open the ballot box, there are 150 ballots. Somebody must have stuffed 50 illegal ballots in the box after the original count. Or maybe there are only 50 ballots. Somebody took 50 ballots out of the box. So you can't do a recount and the original count stands.

If the number of ballots does not match the poll list, there can still be a recount if the county board of canvassers approves. The law says there cannot be a recount in that case only if "the difference is not explained to the satisfaction of the board of canvassers."

There is nothing in the law (that I see) that would prevent the board from asking for an investigation in order to resolve the discrepancy. If there is only a very small discrepancy compared to the number of ballots, the board theoretically could decided that "possible clerical error" is a satisfactory explanation.
Thanks.
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:06 PM   #2707
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
LOL! Not only that, but he's mentally ill.
And doesn't even have adequate legal representation!
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:07 PM   #2708
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Breaking News on FOX News

"Liberals want to evict a financially troubled elderly COVID survivor and his family from inner city public housing."

That's off-topic! Oh, wait...
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:11 PM   #2709
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Breaking News on FOX News

"Liberals want to evict a financially troubled elderly COVID survivor and his family from inner city public housing."
Man, I gotta admit, it took me a few minutes before the penny dropped on that one.
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:29 PM   #2710
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Originally Posted by rdaneel View Post
Man, I gotta admit, it took me a few minutes before the penny dropped on that one.
The penny for me dropped straight away.... but only because I read the replies y'all posted before I read acbytesla's post!
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:40 PM   #2711
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The penny for me dropped straight away.... but only because I read the replies y'all posted before I read acbytesla's post!
Guess we know who has acbytesla on ignore...
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:46 PM   #2712
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Guess we know who has acbytesla on ignore...
Hell no!!! He's one of my favourite posters.

The reason I saw the others first because I have my forum page display set to show the latest posts at the top.

For those who don't know how to do this

UCP > Thread Display Options > Thread Display Mode. Select "Linear - Newest First" form the drop-down box
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:49 PM   #2713
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Trump observers just slowing recount in WI. They will finish by the end of the month no matter what

Quote:
He didn’t anticipate the delays would raise the $2 million price tag of the recount, paid by the Trump campaign, unless it becomes necessary to get more space and tables to address a backlog.

The county has a Dec. 1 deadline to finish the recount.

“The Trump campaign is continually revisiting issues that the commission has ruled on, such as observers saying that they cannot see when, again, that was addressed already,” Christenson said to explain what is slowing the process.

There appeared to be a disconnect between the attorneys arguing before the three-member Board of Canvassers and the attorneys acting on behalf of the Trump campaign in the aisles and the observers at each of the tables where the counting is taking place, he said.

Another issue, he said, is that the observers are “disruptive,” asking question after question and telling the election workers to stop what they’re doing.

“It’s not our job to train their observers on what they’re observing,” he said. “They
clearly don’t know what they’re doing and so they keep asking questions. And we’ve said to the Trump campaign, you need to tell your people what you’re looking for here because they’re objecting to every ballot.”

Observers need to ask the campaigns if they have questions, not the election workers, he said.

He said he believed a total of three ballots from Bayside and Hales Corners were rejected so far.

Christenson did not know how many, or whether, ballots had been counted at that point, saying he had been at the front table responding to the many objections brought by the Trump campaign.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...es/6353846002/

If the recounts focus on discrepancies by ward, it will go like this:

If there are more voters logged in the book than there are ballots, "they threw out Trump ballots!"
If there are more ballots than signatures in the book, "they added illegal Biden ballots!"

Last edited by Tero; 21st November 2020 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:59 PM   #2714
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
If the number of ballots does not match the poll list, there can still be a recount if the county board of canvassers approves. The law says there cannot be a recount in that case only if "the difference is not explained to the satisfaction of the board of canvassers."

There is nothing in the law (that I see) that would prevent the board from asking for an investigation in order to resolve the discrepancy. If there is only a very small discrepancy compared to the number of ballots, the board theoretically could decided that "possible clerical error" is a satisfactory explanation.
Ok. That makes sense. Basically, they can still be recounted, but a human has to go in and take a look and make sure that there's no funny business.

Thanks, as usual.
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Old 21st November 2020, 03:15 PM   #2715
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Hell no!!! He's one of my favourite posters.

The reason I saw the others first because I have my forum page display set to show the latest posts at the top.

For those who don't know how to do this

UCP > Thread Display Options > Thread Display Mode. Select "Linear - Newest First" form the drop-down box
I was just kidding.
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Old 21st November 2020, 03:31 PM   #2716
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I was just kidding.
No kidding!
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Old 21st November 2020, 03:38 PM   #2717
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
If there are more voters logged in the book than there are ballots, "they threw out Trump ballots!"
If there are more ballots than signatures in the book, "they added illegal Biden ballots!"
And if they agree perfectly, "they threw out Trump ballots and added illegal Biden ballots!"

Dave
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Old 21st November 2020, 05:08 PM   #2718
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I'm getting tired of all this winning.

Quote:
Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence.
said the federal judge who tossed out a Trump lawsuit in Pennsylvania.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/21/polit...uit/index.html
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Old 21st November 2020, 05:12 PM   #2719
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It's like the Keystone Cops.
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Old 21st November 2020, 05:25 PM   #2720
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Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
I'm getting tired of all this winning.



said the federal judge who tossed out a Trump lawsuit in Pennsylvania.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/21/polit...uit/index.html
From that article-

Quote:
The judge said any further consideration of this issue "would unduly delay resolution of the issues" regarding certification.
Yeah- I think that's kind of the point behind bringing the suits. TrumpCo know perfectly well their complaints have no merits- the idea is to delay, delay, delay, Gish-gallop the issue to a point, and a venue, where merits don't matter (much less the merits of an 80,000+ vote margin).
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