Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

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Darat

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Darat
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Hlafordlaes said:
Congress was occupied, legal proceedings halted. No matter how long it lasted, that was an attempted coup, the actions those of terrorists, and the man responsible a White supremacist who repeatedly betrays his oaths of office. There's no sugar coating that, and the Paradise of Infinite Lollipops for White Boys is over. Laughably, pathetically over.

Uncle Sam has had yet another very public trouser drop thanks to White boys and their sadly deluded allies. Henceforth, zero grounds to claim adherence to Western values, or any sort of "leadership", let alone a moral voice or intellectual credibility. Trump and his base have ****-canned the USA for generations to come and greatly advanced the forces of totalitarianism around the planet.
In light of events, waving a Trump flag this point forward is an act of treason, an intentional declarative blessing of a violent coup against democracy. From now on, no quarter, no respite, no benefit of the doubt, only a hard press up against the wall.

Time to finally rewrite the DoI so that it does not take those lazy short-cuts in defining the first principles of democracy which, btw, do not start with "small government". Maybe then prairie dogs and swamp rats will get some learnin'.
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Started already: https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...ee-us-democracy-limping-after-capitol-stormed

...snip....
"The United States certainly cannot now impose electoral standards on other countries and claim to be the world's 'beacon of democracy'," the foreign affairs chief in the lower house, Leonid Slutsky, told Russian news agencies....snip...
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This has been the Trump's apologist (including the ones who screech "Don't call me a Trump supporter! How dare you!" the loudest) game for a while.

"Trump's going to do this."
"Oh he's not going to do it. Stop being overdramatic and hyperbolic."
"Okay well... I mean he literally just did it."
"No he didn't really do it because (pointless semantic excuse) and me being super hyper-focused on your less than mathematically perfect language while ignoring what Trump is doing is both super important and has no ulterior motive."
 
JoeMorgue said:
These are not people who are afraid of reprisals.
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In Elizebeth's case, she seems affronted and utterly surprised that she was maced, so I think AnonyMoose is accurate.

Where bravado crosses with stupidity.

And with guns.
 
Well I think the coup is truly over, the big boys have stepped in and said “enough”...

Amazing all these brave people standing up to Trump, this really will hamper Trump’s last 13 days in office.
 
Myriad said:
I do appreciate the measured-ness of the single shot (or small number of shots, can't tell for sure) rather than the city cop style "everyone empties their magazines in the general direction." I don't think anyone trains to target the neck, though. In a chaotic scene with a difficult shooting angle past the door, the guard might have intended a warning shot, a center mass shot, or anything in between.
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Well, she was climbing head-first through a relatively narrow window, and when she was shot, immediately fell back through the window, so her center of mass was clearly still behind the door, so her head/neck was probably the biggest target available. If she were to be shot anywhere, it would almost certainly have been in the head or neck, because there wasn't much else there.
 
I love this handwringing over whether the mob could be effective. Is it really that hard to imagine what might have happened if some of the armed members of the mob had managed to get hold of people their God Emperor had told them were enemies? We know how lousy the security was on the perimeter of an entire branch of our government. It was obviously only luck that the internal security was good enough to get that branch of government to safety.

Had Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats been killed by the mob, I wonder if we'd have as much hair-splitting over what we're allowed to call this event...
 
Horatius said:
Well, she was climbing head-first through a relatively narrow window, and when she was shot, immediately fell back through the window, so her center of mass was clearly still behind the door, so her head/neck was probably the biggest target available. If she were to be shot anywhere, it would almost certainly have been in the head or neck, because there wasn't much else there.
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I prefer rioters who *don't* get shot.
 
Babbylonian said:
I love this handwringing over whether the mob could be effective. Is it really that hard to imagine what might have happened if some of the armed members of the mob had managed to get hold of people their God Emperor had told them were enemies? We know how lousy the security was on the perimeter of an entire branch of our government. It was obviously only luck that the internal security was good enough to get that branch of government to safety.

Had Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats been killed by the mob, I wonder if we'd have as much hair-splitting over what we're allowed to call this event...
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IIRC, there was a report saying that they were searching for Mike Pence.
 
Babbylonian said:
Had Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats been killed by the mob, I wonder if we'd have as much hair-splitting over what we're allowed to call this event...
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As long as there were enough surviving Democrats to constitute a majority in the House, then it wouldn't have changed who was in power so that wouldn't count as an attempted coup.

Dave
 
A tweet by the UK politician Jeremy Hunt;

https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1346917883490668546

"America is the world's biggest, most important democracy, a shining light on the hill for freedom. Pres Trump told a crowd to march on Capitol Hill & turned on his VP for upholding the law. He shames American democracy tonight & causes its friends anguish but he is not America"

1 - India is the world's biggest democracy, not the USA. That matters not as size is not an indicator of success.

2 - in no measure on any index is the USA the worlds greatest democracy. It ranks below many countries when it comes to democratic functioning and freedoms.

3 - Trumps actions have seriously damaged the US worlds standing and countries considered a threat to world democracy and freedoms, primarily Russia and China must be laughing their heads off.

4 - Trump is still a large part of America, we cannot kid ourselves he is not. What Trump has fired up is far from over and the internal splits in the USA may never heal. Instead of this being the end, it is more likely a continuation of his influence over many Americans.
 
Paul2 said:
IIRC, there was a report saying that they were searching for Mike Pence.
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Sure, but do you think these nutbars wouldn't settle for taking any enemy politician they happened to come across? And let's not forget that among these people were Q believers who might see their violence as justified since the entire Democratic Party is complicit in the murder of untold numbers of children (and I'm not referring to abortion).

The bottom line? I wonder how many members of this joint session would have had to die before the word "coup" stopped being objectionable.
 
Dave Rogers said:
As long as there were enough surviving Democrats to constitute a majority in the House, then it wouldn't have changed who was in power so that wouldn't count as an attempted coup.

Dave
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There's the flaw in your plan.
 
It's hard to keep up with all the false flags.

So far, it seems that rioters were secretly Antifa infiltrators making the noble patriots look bad (by doing exactly what they've been saying for weeks they were going to do) unless they got shot, in which case they're heroic martyrs.

But with Proud Boys saying they were going to turn up cosplaying as Antifa and Antifa saying they were going to do the same in reverse, I wonder how far this role-swapping goes. Maybe it's worse than you think. Is it possible that absolutely everyone else is a secret false flag agent for the opposite side? Did in fact Trump genuinely obtain a crushing landslide victory at the election except that his role-playing voters all went a bit too method and voted for Biden, and vice versa?
 
Nessie said:
1 - India is the world's biggest democracy, not the USA. That matters not as size is not an indicator of success.
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I'm not sure what your point is here, because India's leadership is as bad as America's. So is Brazil's, and Pakistan, Nigeria and Indonesia aren't exactly great role models.

The only inference I can take from that is that very large democracy doesn't serve the people.

China will be delighted.

Nessie said:
2 - in no measure on any index is the USA the worlds greatest democracy. It ranks below many countries when it comes to democratic functioning and freedoms.
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Yeah, but they've got that whole "sole superpower" thing going for them.

I can see the logic in referring to it as the greatest, simply on its position as former leader of the free world. Will be again next month.

Nessie said:
3 - Trumps actions have seriously damaged the US worlds standing and countries considered a threat to world democracy and freedoms, primarily Russia and China must be laughing their heads off.]/QUOTE]

I hear you could hear Vlad's laughter from Ukraine - he'll be lapping it up.

As to the world standing, you've got the luxury of a very low base and now you have the wildly-popular Obama presidency Veep in charge, if you take a poll next month you'll find the damage has been completely reversed.

Nessie said:
4 - Trump is still a large part of America, we cannot kid ourselves he is not. What Trump has fired up is far from over and the internal splits in the USA may never heal. Instead of this being the end, it is more likely a continuation of his influence over many Americans.
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Nah - you've already seen all the rats desert that ship.

What he's done is narrowed his support down to the small minority of people of human garbage. No sane Republican will support him now, and it's all gone to prove just how absurdly stupid Trump is.

Did he really think a bunch of rednecks could seize the government?

Why, yes he did, and in the process has destroyed any chance of re-election.

It's the best possible end to his presidency - alone, threatened with removal for being unfit for office, utterly broken.
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JoeMorgue said:
"No he didn't really do it because (pointless semantic excuse) and me being super hyper-focused on your less than mathematically perfect language while ignoring what Trump is doing is both super important and has no ulterior motive."
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I must say, this is one place where being hyper-focused on less than mathematically perfect semantics likely has no ulterior motive.

It doesn't make it super important though.
 
Meadmaker said:
I feel compelled by decency to pretend I did not laugh out loud when I read that.
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I debated a bit before posting that, as it is not part of my normal style. So I went wild and crazy for one post - sue me! :D
 
Fast Eddie B said:
If anyone is from Knoxville and knows Elizabeth...

1) There’s a reward waiting for you, and,

2) That tweet will likely be Exhibit A in her prosecution.
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I think this might be even easier for a prosecution:


johnny karate said:
Another right wing terrorist safe in his stupidity and privilege confessing to felonies on live television and who probably slept in his own bed last night:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ugarles/status/1346985940829556736
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jimbob said:
In Elizebeth's case, she seems affronted and utterly surprised that she was maced, so I think AnonyMoose is accurate.

Where bravado crosses with stupidity.

And with guns.
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"It's a revolution" she says. In a wounded tone which implies the authorities who maced her fail to grasp this. I mean, you're not supposed to oppose a revolution, are you? The revolution* is the goodies.

*Oh but not, like, communist revolutionaries, or anything icky like that, obvs. They are the baddies. No, just nice revolutionaries. Regular, commonsense people who only want to drag the vice president out of the building and string him up from a lamp post.
 
Grandkid: Grandma I’ve got to do a report on the civil war of the 2020s, I know you helped defeat the first coup attempt, what did you do.

Grandma: Well I turned to your Grandpa and said enough was enough, I logged in and set Trump’s Facebook account to :”Banned”.
 
jimbob said:
In Elizebeth's case, she seems affronted and utterly surprised that she was maced, so I think AnonyMoose is accurate.

Where bravado crosses with stupidity.

And with guns.
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And with cell phones.

Step 1: Get warrants for position data from major carriers.
Step 2: Identify cell phones in the capitol between time x and time y.
Step 3: Identify owners of cell phones from step 2.
Step 4: Arrest!
 
So the officer who shot the insurrectionist dead has been suspended pending investigation, no word of course on his colleagues who practically gave the others a guided tour and posed for photographs. This is probably the one police shooting where being in fear of his life should be a totally acceptable defence and I look forward to this being dropped without charges in the same way other officers across the USA have been, unless of course it has to be an unarmed black person for the police officer to get a pass?
 
Garrison said:
So the officer who shot the insurrectionist dead has been suspended pending investigation, no word of course on his colleagues who practically gave the others a guided tour and posed for photographs. This is probably the one police shooting where being in fear of his life should be a totally acceptable defence and I look forward to this being dropped without charges in the same way other officers across the USA have been, unless of course it has to be an unarmed black person for the police officer to get a pass?
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You have to understand that "Police" are not a singular entity in the US.

There's 18,000 different law enforcement agencies in the US, with varying levels of autonomy.
 
JoeMorgue said:
You have to understand that "Police" are not a singular entity in the US.

There's 18,000 different law enforcement agencies in the US, with varying levels of autonomy.
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This what a great many people not US Citizens fail to understnad.
The American tradition has been that most law enforcement should be at the level of government closest to the people:Local Governments.
 
slyjoe said:
And with cell phones.

Step 1: Get warrants for position data from major carriers.
Step 2: Identify cell phones in the capitol between time x and time y.
Step 3: Identify owners of cell phones from step 2.
Step 4: Arrest!
Click to expand...

Also check what was being livestreamed on facebook and by whom at that time

I am thinking about this nice character, who knows enough to hide his face, but does have a mobile presumably to film his antics

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErI1ne4XMAICBGy?format=jpg&name=small
 
Speedskater said:
About how many people attended the rally?
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I have not seen any estimates more precise than "stadium-sized crowd". There were initially three different events scheduled at different places, so they were spread out a bit.

That about fit with what I saw on the various live feeds I was watching yesterday - dense crowds mulling around at barricades, but not more than 15-20 people thick from front to back, lots of open space behind all that. I would not be surprised to find out that less than 5000 were actually at the Capitol itself.

All of the law enforcement agencies in D.C. have many times handled much larger groups of belligerent people, they have the experience, the equipment, training, budget and manpower to handle this sort of thing.

The leadership failed to apply any of that.
 
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