IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 9th January 2021, 02:57 PM   #81
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 24,798
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
There's also his surrogate, Rudy, talking about a "trial by combat."

What did Trump say? Do it strong? Do it strongly? We won't win by weakness? I'll be marching with you?

Don't know if that's enough, but hell, Charles Manson didn't kill anyone at Sharon Tate's house, but he was still convicted.
There's no way it's enough to get a conviction in a criminal trial, but an impeachment trial uses different standards than a criminal trial. The only standard in an impeachment trial is, "I think anyone who does that should be thrown out of office, now."
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you're right, but would it hurt you to actually provide some information?
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:09 PM   #82
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,120
Did I misread a news bulletin on my phone? I thought it said, "What did Capitol rioters think would happen when they invaded Congress? Four more years."

I wasn't able to find that precise news story, but it's something I'm really curious about. What did they think would happen? Congress would just, what, change its mind? What was up with getting Pence? Hang him? Hold him hostage? Make him pardon Trump, and them, at gunpoint?

I think it would probably be OK for the House to vote to impeach, then just let the Senate do whatever it wants.

It seems to me there were conflicting plans for meeting up on Jan. 6 and that Trump took a lead role in setting the meeting place as The Ellipse. Some ex-military and current state-level politicians appeared to take a leadership role. I would like to know much, much more about what happened, but Trump vilified Pence, urged supporters to march to the Capitol and clearly indicated he wanted them to disrupt the formal proceedings to seal Biden's win. This is when he already knew that Congress, the people, the states, the judiciary and his own VP were going forward as required by law. I know that doesn't leave Bob the Coward satisfied, and he might even be right - it would be better to have more dots connected. But it's clear Trump wanted to interfere; he has done nothing but try to interfere for 2 months now. Body of work. This was his last gasp, and he knew no good could come of it.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:13 PM   #83
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,120
And, paranoia here, but what if the Capitol fracas is designed to distract everyone from something bigger and more destructive?
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:17 PM   #84
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 24,798
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
And, paranoia here, but what if the Capitol fracas is designed to distract everyone from something bigger and more destructive?
That's pretty paranoid.

When Trump does big, destructive, things, he doesn't want any distractions from them. He wants as much attention as possible.
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you're right, but would it hurt you to actually provide some information?
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:20 PM   #85
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,275
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat, and probably more than all the others added together.

Her net worth is $120M.

If you can't see how she is the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, I don't know who would be. We used to call people like her "champagne Socialists" (now prosecco, I believe) and they serve no purpose other than to be a target for Conservatives to point out the hypocrisy of the left.
Trump's net worth is estimated at $2.5 billion, 20 times higher than Pelosi. So clearly he is even more the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, right?

But that's OK because Trump is a businessman, not a woman.

Quote:
I bet she spends a hell of a lot on shoes.
I bet Trump spends a hell of a lot on shoes too.

Hmm, that doesn't sound right (even though it's probably true). I wonder why? Ah yes, that's right - only women get accused of 'spending a hell of a lot on shoes'.

So you used to call 'people like her' "champagne Socialists"? That is belittling her achievements. Her husband runs a real estate company which has made them quite wealthy, but she didn't get where she is today by privilege. She has worked very hard to get Democrats into a position to implement liberal polices, and championed many herself. But you probably wouldn't know about that because you can't get over the fact that she is a woman.

It's not hypocritical to be successful in business and yet want a system that helps those less fortunate than yourself. But Republicans are masters of projection. Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat because she has pushed through 'socialist' policies that threaten their elite lifestyle of making a fortune off the backs of others while never giving anything in return - and of course because she is a woman.
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

Last edited by Roger Ramjets; 9th January 2021 at 03:23 PM.
Roger Ramjets is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:26 PM   #86
dirtywick
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,876
two months he's been lying to people saying the election was stolen from him. in a speech immediately before they went down there and stormed the capitol, he named specific individuals responsible for it, eventually including mike pence, his own vp. he told his supporters they need to go fight for him. then he told them where to go.

it's absolutely ludicrous to say trump bears no responsibility for jan 6.
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:27 PM   #87
dirtywick
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,876
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post

I bet Trump spends a hell of a lot on shoes too.
wonder who spends more on getting their hair done? because i know how much trump spends
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:32 PM   #88
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,429
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
If there were more than days left, you'd have a point.

As this stage of the presidency, it looks spiteful.
No. It was at this stage of his presidency that he incited an insurrection.

Quote:
Let's face it - the 70 million people who voted Trump aren't all insane lunatics, and I think an olive branch to them would play a lot better than punishing a bloke who's already been cut off from his communication systems, repudiated by his party and VP, and is now a very small step from being Alex Jones II.
The ones who repudiated Trump have already done so by not voting for him in the last election. The rioters at the Capitol don't want an olive branch. They've repudiated their party and their VP by calling for him to be hanged when they stormed the Capitol.

Quote:
Take a look at Trump's approval rating. It will be under 30% once all the polls catch up with the attack on the Capitol. Some of the 10-15% support he's losing are there to be taken, and I don't believe impeachment will attract any of them.
Those who have repudiated the GOP have already done so and become Independents. Few, very few, have become Democrats. Most will still vote Republican, just not Trumplican.
Quote:
What point is another impeachment other than a smug "Gotcha!"?
What point? That a president is not above the law. That he cannot incite a freaking insurrection against members of Congress and there are no consequences. I would think that would be obvious, but apparently not.

Quote:
Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat, and probably more than all the others added together.

Her net worth is $120M.

If you can't see how she is the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, I don't know who would be. We used to call people like her "champagne Socialists" (now prosecco, I believe) and they serve no purpose other than to be a target for Conservatives to point out the hypocrisy of the left.
Oh, the irony. Sweet, sweet irony. You want to talk about hypocrisy from the left? Let's talk hypocrisy. How many of those storming the Capitol will refuse to take their Social Security when they hit 65? Or their Medicare? Or tell the fire department "No, thanks!" when they show up when their house is burning to the ground?
Quote:
I bet she spends a hell of a lot on shoes.
Again, sweet irony. Speaking of the "privileged elite" how much do Donnie "You're the greatest" and "I don't care, do you?" Melania spend on their shoes?



Quote:
A huge swath of Trump votes were anti-establishment, anti-elite votes.
And yet they voted for a guy who was about as much establishment and elite as was possible.

Quote:
Lots of the 70M who voted for Trump are actually decent people and would love to see a way out of the hole they've dug for themselves.
They could have done that by not voting for the guy 2 months ago who's been lying like a rug and acting like a lunatic for the last 5 years.

Quote:
The traditional republicans will never change and need not be targeted.

It's that 10-15% of all voters who voted Trump but aren't die-hard Republicans. The moderate christians, the educated people, hard-working Latino families - people who despise the left. If you manage to convince even 1% of the voters that the Democratic Party is worth voting for, you've probably guaranteed the next election.

It may not work, but what's been lost if it doesn't?

If they "despise the left" and voted Trump then they aren't going to vote for the Democratic Party. Period. Get real.

Quote:
More importantly, what's been gained from impeachment?
Establishing that the president is not above the law. Apparently, you don't think that is important.
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:34 PM   #89
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,955
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
If there were more than days left, you'd have a point.

As this stage of the presidency, it looks spiteful.

Let's face it - the 70 million people who voted Trump aren't all insane lunatics, and I think an olive branch to them would play a lot better than punishing a bloke who's already been cut off from his communication systems, repudiated by his party and VP, and is now a very small step from being Alex Jones II.

Take a look at Trump's approval rating. It will be under 30% once all the polls catch up with the attack on the Capitol. Some of the 10-15% support he's losing are there to be taken, and I don't believe impeachment will attract any of them.

What point is another impeachment other than a smug "Gotcha!"?



Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat, and probably more than all the others added together.

Her net worth is $120M.

If you can't see how she is the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, I don't know who would be. We used to call people like her "champagne Socialists" (now prosecco, I believe) and they serve no purpose other than to be a target for Conservatives to point out the hypocrisy of the left.

I bet she spends a hell of a lot on shoes.



History & human nature.

A huge swath of Trump votes were anti-establishment, anti-elite votes. Lots of the 70M who voted for Trump are actually decent people and would love to see a way out of the hole they've dug for themselves.

Honey v vinegar.



The traditional republicans will never change and need not be targeted.

It's that 10-15% of all voters who voted Trump but aren't die-hard Republicans. The moderate christians, the educated people, hard-working Latino families - people who despise the left. If you manage to convince even 1% of the voters that the Democratic Party is worth voting for, you've probably guaranteed the next election.

It may not work, but what's been lost if it doesn't?

More importantly, what's been gained from impeachment?
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Trump's net worth is estimated at $2.5 billion, 20 times higher than Pelosi. So clearly he is even more the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, right?

But that's OK because Trump is a businessman, not a woman.

I bet Trump spends a hell of a lot on shoes too.

Hmm, that doesn't sound right (even though it's probably true). I wonder why? Ah yes, that's right - only women get accused of 'spending a hell of a lot on shoes'.

So you used to call 'people like her' "champagne Socialists"? That is belittling her achievements. Her husband runs a real estate company which has made them quite wealthy, but she didn't get where she is today by privilege. She has worked very hard to get Democrats into a position to implement liberal polices, and championed many herself. But you probably wouldn't know about that because you can't get over the fact that she is a woman.

It's not hypocritical to be successful in business and yet want a system that helps those less fortunate than yourself. But Republicans are masters of projection. Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat because she has pushed through 'socialist' policies that threaten their elite lifestyle of making a fortune off the backs of others while never giving anything in return - and of course because she is a woman.
Recently defeated Senator David Perdue is worth 5 times more than Pelosi. Loeffler is worth ten times Pelosi. Bet I could check the value of the current GOP Senators and find a dozen who are worth more than Pelosi. These people are insanely hypocritical.

Should be noted these same people mock the hell out of AOC for not having money,
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:37 PM   #90
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 7,338
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Trump's net worth is estimated at $2.5 billion, 20 times higher than Pelosi. So clearly he is even more the perfect embodiment of privileged elite, right?

But that's OK because Trump is a businessman, not a woman.

I bet Trump spends a hell of a lot on shoes too.

Hmm, that doesn't sound right (even though it's probably true). I wonder why? Ah yes, that's right - only women get accused of 'spending a hell of a lot on shoes'.

So you used to call 'people like her' "champagne Socialists"? That is belittling her achievements. Her husband runs a real estate company which has made them quite wealthy, but she didn't get where she is today by privilege. She has worked very hard to get Democrats into a position to implement liberal polices, and championed many herself. But you probably wouldn't know about that because you can't get over the fact that she is a woman.

It's not hypocritical to be successful in business and yet want a system that helps those less fortunate than yourself. But Republicans are masters of projection. Nancy Pelosi is hated by Republicans more than any Democrat because she has pushed through 'socialist' policies that threaten their elite lifestyle of making a fortune off the backs of others while never giving anything in return - and of course because she is a woman.
Just to poke at a couple things here...

The Atheist isn't of the US and isn't particularly supportive of Republicans, at last check. Nor do I think that there's much evidence that he's sexist. For that matter, it's honestly not hard to find things to be distinctly unhappy about when it comes to many of Pelosi's actions, for a variety of reasons, good or bad.

With that said, something that The Atheist doesn't seem to get is that because Nancy Pelosi is a major, effective Democrat leader, that's all the reason that many Republicans actually need to know to attack her. All the rest is pretty much opportunistic rationalization and far too frequently cannot be counted upon to actually be meaningful.

Yeah, the Republicans might be anti-elite, anti-establishment... but when that has extremely little to do with who they actually vote for, it really doesn't friggin' matter.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

Last edited by Aridas; 9th January 2021 at 03:44 PM.
Aridas is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:49 PM   #91
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,902
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
But that's OK because Trump is a businessman, not a woman.
When in doubt, play the misogyny card!

Well done. (Trump isn't a businessman's backside)


Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Recently defeated Senator David Perdue is worth 5 times more than Pelosi. Loeffler is worth ten times Pelosi. Bet I could check the value of the current GOP Senators and find a dozen who are worth more than Pelosi.
Do they claim to have socialist agendas?
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:53 PM   #92
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,955
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Recently defeated Senator David Perdue is worth 5 times more than Pelosi. Loeffler is worth ten times Pelosi. Bet I could check the value of the current GOP Senators and find a dozen who are worth more than Pelosi.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post

Do they claim to have socialist agendas?

So that's it eh? Rich people aren't supposed to care about the 99 percenters?
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.

Last edited by acbytesla; 9th January 2021 at 03:55 PM.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 03:58 PM   #93
Mader Levap
Graduate Poster
 
Mader Levap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,546
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
So that's it eh? Rich people aren't supposed to care about the 99 percenters?
They rarely do, so skepticism is understandable.
__________________
Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.
Mader Levap is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:01 PM   #94
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,934
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
wonder who spends more on getting their hair done? because i know how much trump spends
Didn't a 30 thousand dollar toupee services get name checked when the NYT did that expose on his taxes?
__________________
Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question."
Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..."
Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:08 PM   #95
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,429
Randy Rainbow does it again:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:10 PM   #96
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,902
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
So that's it eh? Rich people aren't supposed to care about the 99 percenters?
Apart from this correct response...

Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
They rarely do, so skepticism is understandable.
... I've been a member of Labour/Socialist movements for 43 years.

So far, no rich person has ever done anything worth a damn for the poor.

Also, the 99% isn't the point of concern - it's the 40-50% on the bottom - the 49% above the 50% line need very little help.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:10 PM   #97
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 8,466
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Trump just announced if he is impeached a second time, Rudy Giuliani will be his attorney.
Now I really hope it happens just for the entertainment value.
...does Donny WANT to get convicted?? He really is insane.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:13 PM   #98
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,934
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Apart from this correct response...



... I've been a member of Labour/Socialist movements for 43 years.

So far, no rich person has ever done anything worth a damn for the poor.

Also, the 99% isn't the point of concern - it's the 40-50% on the bottom - the 49% above the 50% line need very little help.
What does any of this have to do with impeaching Trump?

So what "Evil centrist American Democrats (who let me remind you would be on the Right in any other country. Have I mentioned that enough)" just don't get to impeach Trump because they are Left enough for you?

What are you on about?

I wish the "Screw it all I don't want anything to get better because so my of my self-identity is defined by nay-saying and doom-glooming " sub-groups of both parties would **** off at the highest possible speed in the nearest convienant direction.
__________________
Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question."
Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..."
Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:18 PM   #99
Paul2
Philosopher
 
Paul2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,495
Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
They rarely do, so skepticism is understandable.
Citation? Statistics? It would be good to know exactly how rare. Or is it just anecdotal evidence?
__________________
It's nice to be nice to the nice.

Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell
Paul2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:19 PM   #100
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,902
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
The Atheist isn't of the US and isn't particularly supportive of Republicans, at last check. Nor do I think that there's much evidence that he's sexist. For that matter, it's honestly not hard to find things to be distinctly unhappy about when it comes to many of Pelosi's actions, for a variety of reasons, good or bad.
Well said.

For the record, my major dislike of Pelosi is down to distaste of her among American hard-left Socialists and Progressives I know. The fact that she claims to be devoutly religious doesn't make me like her much either.

The US politician I admire by far the most is AOC. I just hope she doesn't get tainted with lies and ties to Wall St like Nancy has.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:19 PM   #101
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,955
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Apart from this correct response...

... I've been a member of Labour/Socialist movements for 43 years.

So far, no rich person has ever done anything worth a damn for the poor.

Also, the 99% isn't the point of concern - it's the 40-50% on the bottom - the 49% above the 50% line need very little help.
This absolutely NOT NOT NOT TRUE.

I can point you to Billionaires giving away all their money.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:22 PM   #102
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,902
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
What does any of this have to do with impeaching Trump?
Some clowns seemed to think I'm some kind of right-wing person supporting the non-impeachment of Trump, so I'm just setting the facts out.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I wish the "Screw it all I don't want anything to get better because so my of my self-identity is defined by nay-saying and doom-glooming " sub-groups of both parties would **** off at the highest possible speed in the nearest convienant direction.
Abject reading fail.

I set out precisely why I think the healing of America would be best served by not impeaching Trump.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:23 PM   #103
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,902
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This absolutely NOT NOT NOT TRUE.

I can point you to Billionaires giving away all their money.
My mistake - I was referring to politicians. I thought the context provided that point. I've argued extensively against Bill Gates haters on that very point so many times I overlook it.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:23 PM   #104
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,955
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Well said.

For the record, my major dislike of Pelosi is down to distaste of her among American hard-left Socialists and Progressives I know. The fact that she claims to be devoutly religious doesn't make me like her much either.

The US politician I admire by far the most is AOC. I just hope she doesn't get tainted with lies and ties to Wall St like Nancy has.
Sure seems like you just flipped your position. You earlier suggested that Republicans resented Pelosi because she is wealthy and pushes Socialism.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:25 PM   #105
slyjoe
Master Poster
 
slyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 2,544
Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
I don't think the highlighted is correct.

So it seems that disqualification must follow conviction, it can't be independent of it. (And I'll just re-iterate my point that that disqualification would be, to me, the best reason for pursuing it)
You are correct. I was reading an article on the Secretary of War that was impeached. The article was actually about whether you can impeach someone if they've already resigned. I must have misread the part about you MUST convict first before you can disqualify.
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade
slyjoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:26 PM   #106
Paul2
Philosopher
 
Paul2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,495
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post

I set out precisely why I think the healing of America would be best served by not impeaching Trump.
I dunno, the gaping wound in democracy and the rule of law caused by Trump and the insurrection will not be best served by not impeaching him. In fact, the only way to help heal that wound is to hold him accountable.
__________________
It's nice to be nice to the nice.

Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell
Paul2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:34 PM   #107
Cervelo
Graduate Poster
 
Cervelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,513
Way to go Libitards its good to see them get refocused on what's important!
Cervelo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:35 PM   #108
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Trump just announced if he is impeached a second time, Rudy Giuliani will be his attorney.
Now I really hope it happens just for the entertainment value.
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
...does Donny WANT to get convicted?? He really is insane.
I don't think he can find anyone else at this point.
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:47 PM   #109
EHocking
Philosopher
 
EHocking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,454
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Trump just announced if he is impeached a second time, Rudy Giuliane will be his attonrey.
Now I really hope it happens just for the entertainment value.
Perhaps he’s setting up a mistrial defence based on incompetent legal representation?
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
"Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke
"It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite
You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald
EHocking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:49 PM   #110
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,934
Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Perhaps he’s setting up a mistrial defence based on incompetent legal representation?
I don't think that's a thing in Impeachments.

Impeachments aren't really trials.
__________________
Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question."
Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..."
Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 04:59 PM   #111
EHocking
Philosopher
 
EHocking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,454
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't think that's a thing in Impeachments.

Impeachments aren't really trials.
Does Donny know that?
He and Rudy obviously believe they are smarter than everyone else.
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
"Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke
"It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite
You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald
EHocking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 05:02 PM   #112
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,902
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Sure seems like you just flipped your position. You earlier suggested that Republicans resented Pelosi because she is wealthy and pushes Socialism.
No, I made it plain that was my opinion - I dislike her because she's a shocking example of Champagne Socialism, cosying up to Wall Street while pretending to care about the bottom 40%.

Republicans hate her because they hate all Democrats.

Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
I dunno, the gaping wound in democracy and the rule of law caused by Trump and the insurrection will not be best served by not impeaching him. In fact, the only way to help heal that wound is to hold him accountable.
Then let the Justice Department prosecute him and try him in front of a judge he appointed.

Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Way to go Libitards its good to see them get refocused on what's important!
I dunno whether that's a troll, sarcasm or real, but it encapsulates the point nicely.

Trump is no longer of any importance, and the best way to cast him adrift is to ignore the hell out of him.

Biden has it dead right - concentrate on Covid, economic recovery, unemployment; things that do matter.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 05:02 PM   #113
slyjoe
Master Poster
 
slyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 2,544
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't think that's a thing in Impeachments.

Impeachments aren't really trials.
Correct. They don't even have to have witnesses, as Donny's first impeachment trial showed us.
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade
slyjoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 05:03 PM   #114
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,902
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't think he can find afford anyone else at this point.
FTFY
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 05:03 PM   #115
slyjoe
Master Poster
 
slyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 2,544
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
No, I made it plain that was my opinion - I dislike her because she's a shocking example of Champagne Socialism, cosying up to Wall Street while pretending to care about the bottom 40%.

Republicans hate her because they hate all Democrats.



Then let the Justice Department prosecute him and try him in front of a judge he appointed.



I dunno whether that's a troll, sarcasm or real, but it encapsulates the point nicely.

Trump is no longer of any importance, and the best way to cast him adrift is to ignore the hell out of him.

Biden has it dead right - concentrate on Covid, economic recovery, unemployment; things that do matter.
That has to be one of the most ignorant things I've heard today.
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade
slyjoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 05:04 PM   #116
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,955
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
No, I made it plain that was my opinion - I dislike her because she's a shocking example of Champagne Socialism, cosying up to Wall Street while pretending to care about the bottom 40%.

Republicans hate her because they hate all Democrats.
It wasn't plain at all, but okay.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 05:08 PM   #117
Paul2
Philosopher
 
Paul2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,495
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Then let the Justice Department prosecute him and try him in front of a judge he appointed.
I'm not opposed to doing that, but in addition to impeachment, as there are different purposes to impeachment compared to criminal trials.
__________________
It's nice to be nice to the nice.

Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell
Paul2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 05:09 PM   #118
Paul2
Philosopher
 
Paul2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,495
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Trump is no longer of any importance, and the best way to cast him adrift is to ignore the hell out of him.
You don't know this, that's just a guess.
__________________
It's nice to be nice to the nice.

Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell
Paul2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 05:10 PM   #119
slyjoe
Master Poster
 
slyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 2,544
Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
You don't know this, that's just a guess.
It's wrong. His supporters are currently rallying around him for the inauguration disturbances to come.
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade
slyjoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2021, 05:12 PM   #120
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,955
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
.

Trump is no longer of any importance, and the best way to cast him adrift is to ignore the hell out of him.
Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
That has to be one of the most ignorant things I've heard today.
I agree with Joe. Part of the purpose of impeachment is to prevent him from ever running again. Another reason is accountability. He needs to be made an example of. This should be a Brooklyn stomp, a coup de grace. He and what he stands for must be destroyed.

There is also a political reason. To force Republicans to turn their back on Trumpism. It's likely to cause a fissure in the GOP, but it is necessary.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:09 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.