[Merged] Tory MP David Amess Murdered

angrysoba · 15th October 2021, 07:19 AM

Quote:

A man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after a man was stabbed in Leigh-on-Sea.

We were called to an address in Eastwood Road North shortly after 12.05pm today (Friday 15 October).

We attended and found a man injured. He was treated by emergency services but, sadly, died at the scene.

A 25-year-old man was quickly arrested after officers arrived at the scene on suspicion of murder and a knife was recovered. He is currently in custody.

We are not looking for anyone else in connection with this incident.

Quote:

Sources with knowledge of the investigation confirm the man who died is the Conservative MP David Amess.

This is from the Guardian livefeed.

Captain_Swoop · 15th October 2021, 07:20 AM

Conservative MP Sir David Amess has died after being stabbed at his constituency surgery in Essex.

Police said a man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after the stabbing in Leigh-on-Sea.

They said they recovered a knife and were not looking for anyone else in connection to the incident.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58930593

gypsyjackson · 15th October 2021, 07:21 AM

Tory MP David Amess has been stabbed while holding a meeting in his constituency. Details are sketchy at the moment, but he appears to have died from his injuries before reaching hospital.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58929453

This BBC news page is slightly out of date, but will perhaps be updated.

Amess is perhaps best known in Britain for his appearance on the Brass Eye episode cake, in which he campaigned against the fictional drug cake, going as far as to table a Parliamentary Question on the subject:

Originally Posted by Hansard

Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what action the Government propose in respect of the import of (a) khat, (b) gammahydroxybutyrate and (c) "cake" to the United Kingdom. [38968]

Mr. Sackville: Neither the khat plant nor the substances gammahydroxybutyrate--GHB--or "cake", which we understand refers to 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-benzylamphetamine, are controlled under the international United Nations drug conventions or under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.

He was a Tory in the mould of Alan Clark, in that he cared more about animal rights than human rights (rather than the affairs and Nazi references). He successfully pushed a ten minute rule bill through the Houses which meant it was illegal to tether horses in a way that would distress them.

He is the second British MP to be murdered in just over five years, following the killing of Jo Cox in 2016.

LondonJohn · 15th October 2021, 07:39 AM

Oh bloody hell.

Yes, it has to be him - nobody else was reported as having been injured.

I met him three times at Prostate Cancer UK events at which we were both working. And while I didn't care for some of his politics (something that's irrelevant right now in any case), he seemed like the most thoughtful, gentle, bright and generous person. The way he worked with members of the public when I was around him had the genuine air of him caring about them and their issues - it never ever seemed to me like he was just going through the motions for political (or other) reasons.

And to me, this makes the manner of his death - during a well-publicised MP's surgery* - all the more poignant to me.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if after this tragedy, on top of the Jo Cox murder in 2016, it becomes mandatory to have at least one police officer present at all MPs' surgeries. That would be a very good move too, IMO: the cost and the impact on the workings of democracy would be more than offset by the reduction in the threat.

* For those who might be unaware, in the UK an MP's surgery is where the MP appears at a certain location in his/her constituency for constituents to drop in (either by appointment or on a walk-in basis) with problems that they'd like the MP to try to help out with. In the UK, they usually take place on a Friday, because the House of Commons doesn't usually sit on Fridays.

Warp12 · 15th October 2021, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Conservative MP Sir David Amess has died after being stabbed at his constituency surgery in Essex.

Police said a man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after the stabbing in Leigh-on-Sea.

They said they recovered a knife and were not looking for anyone else in connection to the incident.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58930593

I don't follow politics in the UK. Can you provide some context as to how significant this individual was? Popular, well-known, hated, loved?

catsmate · 15th October 2021, 08:46 AM

I remember him from the Brass Eye 'Cake' episode as a bit of an idiot.

sir drinks-a-lot · 15th October 2021, 08:50 AM

Duplicate thread one minute earlier.

sir drinks-a-lot · 15th October 2021, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by LondonJohn

For those who might be unaware, in the UK an MP's surgery is where the MP appears at a certain location in his/her constituency for constituents to drop in (either by appointment or on a walk-in basis) with problems that they'd like the MP to try to help out with. In the UK, they usually take place on a Friday, because the House of Commons doesn't usually sit on Fridays.

Thanks for this much-needed clarification. As an American, I was beyond confused until reading this.

LondonJohn · 15th October 2021, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

I remember him from the Brass Eye 'Cake' episode as a bit of an idiot.

Well, he was properly duped - but then an awful lot of distinguished people were duped by the likes of Brass Eye, Ali G and Trigger Happy TV.

In my own experience, he was a decent, kind and generous-of-spirit person. I disagreed with pretty much all of his religiously-informed political opinions, but at the same time I admired his integrity in standing up for what he believed in.

Anyhow.....

RecoveringYuppy · 15th October 2021, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by LondonJohn

* For those who might be unaware, in the UK an MP's surgery is where the MP appears at a certain location in his/her constituency for constituents to drop in (either by appointment or on a walk-in basis) with problems that they'd like the MP to try to help out with.

Yes, thanks. Google was not being helpful with that.

LondonJohn · 15th October 2021, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

I don't follow politics in the UK. Can you provide some context as to how significant this individual was? Popular, well-known, hated, loved?

He'd been an MP for over four decades. He'd held junior government positions in the early 90s, but was primarily a passionate backbencher MP.

When he entered Parliament as an MP in the 80s, he was seen - on account of his fairly flamboyant presentation, his accent, and the fact that he represented the archetypal working-class-Tory constituency of Basildon - as the epitome of "Essex Man" Thatcherism. He was also notable in the 1992 General Election for holding his seat when all the predictions were that he'd lose it: his survival in the seat, because his result was one of the early announcements on election night, was seen as a bellwether for the Conservatives to upset the odds and remain the party of Government. His giant smile on hearing his victory being announced was perhaps the most enduring image of that election.

I don't think many - if any - within Parliament had a bad word to say about him as a person. Many disagreed with his politics, and indeed many thought that some of his political opinions were reprehensible and immoral. But on other matters, he was a frequent cross-party-consensus politician. He was known as an honest, passionate and considerate person, as far as I'm (anecdotally) aware.

LondonJohn · 15th October 2021, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Yes, thanks. Google was not being helpful with that.

This was his tweet in which he advertised today's surgery - the one in which he was stabbed to death......

https://twitter.com/amessd_southend/...76799531212800

Warp12 · 15th October 2021, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by LondonJohn

He'd been an MP for over four decades. He'd held junior government positions in the early 90s, but was primarily a passionate backbencher MP.

When he entered Parliament as an MP in the 80s, he was seen - on account of his fairly flamboyant presentation, his accent, and the fact that he represented the archetypal working-class-Tory constituency of Basildon - as the epitome of "Essex Man" Thatcherism. He was also notable in the 1992 General Election for holding his seat when all the predictions were that he'd lose it: his survival in the seat, because his result was one of the early announcements on election night, was seen as a bellwether for the Conservatives to upset the odds and remain the party of Government. His giant smile on hearing his victory being announced was perhaps the most enduring image of that election.

I don't think many - if any - within Parliament had a bad word to say about him as a person. Many disagreed with his politics, and indeed many thought that some of his political opinions were reprehensible and immoral. But on other matters, he was a frequent cross-party-consensus politician. He was known as an honest, passionate and considerate person, as far as I'm (anecdotally) aware.

Thank you for the details. Very sad situation.

Agatha · 15th October 2021, 03:05 PM

Like LondonJohn, I disagreed with the majority of his political and social opinions. I deplore his murder and this attack on our democracy.

I've attended my local MP's surgery on a couple of occasions, and these sessions are vital to connect MPs with their constituents. I hope this incident doesn't provoke a knee-jerk ban on MP surgeries, though it should probably lead to some consideration about security.

Graham2001 · 15th October 2021, 03:44 PM

Here is the commentary from the people at Spiked, who can't resist mentioning that one previous (non-fatal) attack at an MP Surgery involved an Islamic extremist who happened to be female.

Quote:

David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, has been stabbed to death at his constituency surgery at a church in Leigh-on-Sea. We can’t help but reach for the usual clichés at a time like this, but none provides much comfort in the face of such horror and tragedy.

At the time of writing we know nothing about Amess’s alleged murderer, other than police arrested a 25-year-old man at the scene. They recovered a knife and aren’t looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/1...p-david-amess/

Captain_Swoop · 15th October 2021, 03:47 PM

Liberal Democrat MP Nigel Jones was attacked and his aide killed at a surgerys by a man with a samurai sword in 2000

Quote:

An MP's assistant was stabbed to death yesterday as he tried to protect the Liberal Democrat MP Nigel Jones from an attacker who stormed his constituency office in Cheltenham armed with a sword.
Andy Pennington, Mr Jones' personal aide and a member of Gloucestershire county council's education committee, died from multiple stab wounds when the man burst into the office at 4.30pm yesterday.

Mr Jones, 51, who was conducting his weekly constituency surgery, received lacerations to his hands and arms after fending off blows from the swordsman. He was being treated at Cheltenham general hospital last night.
Mr Jones raised the alarm after staggering bloodied and stunned from the office in St George's Street. An armed-response unit attended the scene.
The attacker, believed to be a local man known to police, had walked from the office still holding the sword, and was arrested further up the street outside a branch of Littlewoods department store.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...politicalnews1

3point14 · 15th October 2021, 03:47 PM

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10...end_west/votes

p0lka · 15th October 2021, 04:46 PM

In spite of their position on the death penalty, I wish they were still around to argue about it. rip.

lionking · 15th October 2021, 05:06 PM

Interestingly the killing is being reported in Australia as happening in a church rather than a constituency surgery. What on earth is a constituency surgery anyway?

gypsyjackson · 15th October 2021, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Interestingly the killing is being reported in Australia as happening in a church rather than a constituency surgery. What on earth is a constituency surgery anyway?

LondonJohn explained in more depth earlier, but it’s basically where the MP allows people in his/her constituency to come in to raise concerns. Usually it’s split into an appointment based session and a drop-in session, but that depends on the MP. Sometimes they host in their offices, other times at buildings in the community.

This surgery was in a church - I haven’t checked whether Amess ran them there a lot, but in my last constituency in the UK (in Croydon) my MP Sarah Jones ran a surgery in the Methodist church two doors down from me occasionally.

lionking · 15th October 2021, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by gypsyjackson

LondonJohn explained in more depth earlier, but it’s basically where the MP allows people in his/her constituency to come in to raise concerns. Usually it’s split into an appointment based session and a drop-in session, but that depends on the MP. Sometimes they host in their offices, other times at buildings in the community.

This surgery was in a church - I haven’t checked whether Amess ran them there a lot, but in my last constituency in the UK (in Croydon) my MP Sarah Jones ran a surgery in the Methodist church two doors down from me occasionally.

Thanks.

Captain_Swoop · 15th October 2021, 05:30 PM

Our MP has a rented shop off the main market place. It is also his constituency office.

gypsyjackson · 15th October 2021, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Liberal Democrat MP Nigel Jones was attacked and his aide killed at a surgerys by a man with a samurai sword in 2000

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...politicalnews1

And Stephen Timms was attacked in ~~the mid-2000s~~ 2010.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_of_Stephen_Timms

The attack on Amess has been described as a terrorist incident by the police now:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58935372

gypsyjackson · 15th October 2021, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Our MP has a rented shop off the main market place. It is also his constituency office.

In Cambridgeshire, a number of Tory MPs share a constituency office in Hardwick, presumably to save money. I guess they need to rent venues for surgeries, and changing venues means you can hold them closer to more people over time.

Captain_Swoop · 15th October 2021, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by gypsyjackson

And Stephen Timms was attacked in ~~the mid-2000s~~ 2010.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_of_Stephen_Timms

The attack on Amess has been described as a terrorist incident by the police now:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58935372

Yes, I forgot about Timms.

angrysoba · 15th October 2021, 05:44 PM

Quote:

The killing of Conservative MP Sir David Amess has been declared a terrorist incident by police.

Sir David was stabbed multiple times at a constituency surgery in Leigh-on-Sea in Essex on Friday.

The Metropolitan Police said there was "a potential motivation linked to Islamist extremism".

Link

MarkCorrigan · 15th October 2021, 06:00 PM

Jesus. I almost never agreed with the man but this is appalling. I wish his family well. This must be heart-breaking for them.

angrysoba · 15th October 2021, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Jesus. I almost never agreed with the man but this is appalling. I wish his family well. This must be heart-breaking for them.

I agree. I don't need to see what his views are on various issues, because regardless of what they are, this is a despicable act.

Vixen · 16th October 2021, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by LondonJohn

Oh bloody hell.

Yes, it has to be him - nobody else was reported as having been injured.

I met him three times at Prostate Cancer UK events at which we were both working. And while I didn't care for some of his politics (something that's irrelevant right now in any case), he seemed like the most thoughtful, gentle, bright and generous person. The way he worked with members of the public when I was around him had the genuine air of him caring about them and their issues - it never ever seemed to me like he was just going through the motions for political (or other) reasons.

And to me, this makes the manner of his death - during a well-publicised MP's surgery* - all the more poignant to me.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if after this tragedy, on top of the Jo Cox murder in 2016, it becomes mandatory to have at least one police officer present at all MPs' surgeries. That would be a very good move too, IMO: the cost and the impact on the workings of democracy would be more than offset by the reduction in the threat.

* For those who might be unaware, in the UK an MP's surgery is where the MP appears at a certain location in his/her constituency for constituents to drop in (either by appointment or on a walk-in basis) with problems that they'd like the MP to try to help out with. In the UK, they usually take place on a Friday, because the House of Commons doesn't usually sit on Fridays.

Problem is, Jo Cox was murdered on the way to the surgery.

Vixen · 16th October 2021, 03:15 AM

I see it is being reported the 'suspect' is a 'British national of Somali heritage'. Ugh. 'Heritage' - pet hate word. What does it mean? Is he a protected Somali building or land, or maybe it is a hint to the Lawrence Foxes of the world to get all triggered.

Or maybe it is a reference to him being <whisper it> a Muslim.

Warp12 · 16th October 2021, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

I see it is being reported the 'suspect' is a 'British national of Somali heritage'. Ugh. 'Heritage' - pet hate word. What does it mean? Is he a protected Somali building or land, or maybe it is a hint to the Lawrence Foxes of the world to get all triggered.

Or maybe it is a reference to him being <whisper it> a Muslim.

Well, if he is a Muslim extremist, they definitely should keep that a secret.

RolandRat · 16th October 2021, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

I don't follow politics in the UK. Can you provide some context as to how significant this individual was? Popular, well-known, hated, loved?

I couldn't stand the guy. I met him and thought he was a slimy weasel.

Darat · 16th October 2021, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Problem is, Jo Cox was murdered on the way to the surgery.

The problem is that we don’t have a crystal ball that works or a time machine!

Hercules Rockefeller · 16th October 2021, 04:28 AM

What a mess.

3point14 · 16th October 2021, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by LondonJohn

Oh bloody hell.

Yes, it has to be him - nobody else was reported as having been injured.

I met him three times at Prostate Cancer UK events at which we were both working. And while I didn't care for some of his politics (something that's irrelevant right now in any case), he seemed like the most thoughtful, gentle, bright and generous person.

His voting record would indicate otherwise.

What's happened is horrific and nobody should end that way, but the impression I'm getting of the man was that he was very good at PR.

Vixen · 16th October 2021, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Well, if he is a Muslim extremist, they definitely should keep that a secret.

Mo Farrah is British and a Muslim. Does that make him an undesirable 'extremist'?

Warp12 · 16th October 2021, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Mo Farrah is British and a Muslim. Does that make him an undesirable 'extremist'?

Does he have religion-based extremist views? Has he stabbed anyone to death, recently?

catsmate · 16th October 2021, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by RolandRat

I couldn't stand the guy. I met him and thought he was a slimy weasel.

That was my take too. A sufferer from the Imperial Delusion.

Vixen · 16th October 2021, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Does he have religion-based extremist views? Has he stabbed anyone to death, recently?

Sorry? So knowing that someone is 'of Somali heritage' tells you they are a 'religion-based extremist'? As the guy only stabbed one person, when there were many others around, it doesn't fit the usual 'extremist attack'. What about that Jack Warner (_sp?) guy in southern England who went on a spree killing five people, including a little girl: why is he not described in similar racist terms?

How do you know this 'Somali' didn't attack Sir David Amess for a reason other than being a Somali?

Vixen · 16th October 2021, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

That was my take too. A sufferer from the Imperial Delusion.

I really must protest. So the guy was a Brexiteer, a Roman Catholic who voted against abortion and same-sex marriage as well as being patriotic. One might not agree with him but that doesn't make him a 'slimy weasal'. The guy was just doing his job. As I recall, MP Norman Tebbit was hated for his Tory views yet by all accounts, his constituents thought he was great. He went out of his way to help them with their housing problems and the usual struggles people go through.

This is a really shocking murder and I don't think this is the time to excoriate the guy because of political differences. He liked dogs and voted against fox-hunting, so he was not all bad.

15th October 2021, 07:19 AM	#1
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 33,744	Tory MP David Amess Murdered Quote: A man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after a man was stabbed in Leigh-on-Sea. We were called to an address in Eastwood Road North shortly after 12.05pm today (Friday 15 October). We attended and found a man injured. He was treated by emergency services but, sadly, died at the scene. A 25-year-old man was quickly arrested after officers arrived at the scene on suspicion of murder and a knife was recovered. He is currently in custody. We are not looking for anyone else in connection with this incident. Quote: Sources with knowledge of the investigation confirm the man who died is the Conservative MP David Amess. This is from the Guardian livefeed.
	__________________ Слава Україні! **** Putin!

15th October 2021, 07:20 AM	#2
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 43,373	Tory MP Sir David Amess dies after stabbing Conservative MP Sir David Amess has died after being stabbed at his constituency surgery in Essex. Police said a man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after the stabbing in Leigh-on-Sea. They said they recovered a knife and were not looking for anyone else in connection to the incident. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58930593

15th October 2021, 07:21 AM	#3
gypsyjackson Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,622	MP David Amess stabbed to death Tory MP David Amess has been stabbed while holding a meeting in his constituency. Details are sketchy at the moment, but he appears to have died from his injuries before reaching hospital. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58929453 This BBC news page is slightly out of date, but will perhaps be updated. Amess is perhaps best known in Britain for his appearance on the Brass Eye episode cake, in which he campaigned against the fictional drug cake, going as far as to table a Parliamentary Question on the subject: Originally Posted by Hansard Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what action the Government propose in respect of the import of (a) khat, (b) gammahydroxybutyrate and (c) "cake" to the United Kingdom. [38968] Mr. Sackville: Neither the khat plant nor the substances gammahydroxybutyrate--GHB--or "cake", which we understand refers to 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-benzylamphetamine, are controlled under the international United Nations drug conventions or under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. He was a Tory in the mould of Alan Clark, in that he cared more about animal rights than human rights (rather than the affairs and Nazi references). He successfully pushed a ten minute rule bill through the Houses which meant it was illegal to tether horses in a way that would distress them. He is the second British MP to be murdered in just over five years, following the killing of Jo Cox in 2016.
	Last edited by gypsyjackson; 15th October 2021 at 07:28 AM.

15th October 2021, 08:46 AM	#6
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,930	I remember him from the Brass Eye 'Cake' episode as a bit of an idiot.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

15th October 2021, 08:50 AM	#7
sir drinks-a-lot Philosopher Join Date: May 2004 Location: Cole Valley, CA Posts: 5,161	Duplicate thread one minute earlier.
	__________________ I don't like that man. I must get to know him better. --Abraham Lincoln

15th October 2021, 07:39 AM	#4
LondonJohn Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19,940	Oh bloody hell. Yes, it has to be him - nobody else was reported as having been injured. I met him three times at Prostate Cancer UK events at which we were both working. And while I didn't care for some of his politics (something that's irrelevant right now in any case), he seemed like the most thoughtful, gentle, bright and generous person. The way he worked with members of the public when I was around him had the genuine air of him caring about them and their issues - it never ever seemed to me like he was just going through the motions for political (or other) reasons. And to me, this makes the manner of his death - during a well-publicised MP's surgery* - all the more poignant to me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if after this tragedy, on top of the Jo Cox murder in 2016, it becomes mandatory to have at least one police officer present at all MPs' surgeries. That would be a very good move too, IMO: the cost and the impact on the workings of democracy would be more than offset by the reduction in the threat. * For those who might be unaware, in the UK an MP's surgery is where the MP appears at a certain location in his/her constituency for constituents to drop in (either by appointment or on a walk-in basis) with problems that they'd like the MP to try to help out with. In the UK, they usually take place on a Friday, because the House of Commons doesn't usually sit on Fridays.

15th October 2021, 08:26 AM	#5
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Conservative MP Sir David Amess has died after being stabbed at his constituency surgery in Essex. Police said a man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after the stabbing in Leigh-on-Sea. They said they recovered a knife and were not looking for anyone else in connection to the incident. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58930593 I don't follow politics in the UK. Can you provide some context as to how significant this individual was? Popular, well-known, hated, loved?

15th October 2021, 08:51 AM	#8
sir drinks-a-lot Philosopher Join Date: May 2004 Location: Cole Valley, CA Posts: 5,161	Originally Posted by LondonJohn For those who might be unaware, in the UK an MP's surgery is where the MP appears at a certain location in his/her constituency for constituents to drop in (either by appointment or on a walk-in basis) with problems that they'd like the MP to try to help out with. In the UK, they usually take place on a Friday, because the House of Commons doesn't usually sit on Fridays. Thanks for this much-needed clarification. As an American, I was beyond confused until reading this.
	__________________ I don't like that man. I must get to know him better. --Abraham Lincoln

15th October 2021, 08:52 AM	#9
LondonJohn Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19,940	Originally Posted by catsmate I remember him from the Brass Eye 'Cake' episode as a bit of an idiot. Well, he was properly duped - but then an awful lot of distinguished people were duped by the likes of Brass Eye, Ali G and Trigger Happy TV. In my own experience, he was a decent, kind and generous-of-spirit person. I disagreed with pretty much all of his religiously-informed political opinions, but at the same time I admired his integrity in standing up for what he believed in. Anyhow.....

15th October 2021, 08:55 AM	#10
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14,185	Originally Posted by LondonJohn * For those who might be unaware, in the UK an MP's surgery is where the MP appears at a certain location in his/her constituency for constituents to drop in (either by appointment or on a walk-in basis) with problems that they'd like the MP to try to help out with. Yes, thanks. Google was not being helpful with that.

15th October 2021, 09:03 AM	#11
LondonJohn Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19,940	Originally Posted by Warp12 I don't follow politics in the UK. Can you provide some context as to how significant this individual was? Popular, well-known, hated, loved? He'd been an MP for over four decades. He'd held junior government positions in the early 90s, but was primarily a passionate backbencher MP. When he entered Parliament as an MP in the 80s, he was seen - on account of his fairly flamboyant presentation, his accent, and the fact that he represented the archetypal working-class-Tory constituency of Basildon - as the epitome of "Essex Man" Thatcherism. He was also notable in the 1992 General Election for holding his seat when all the predictions were that he'd lose it: his survival in the seat, because his result was one of the early announcements on election night, was seen as a bellwether for the Conservatives to upset the odds and remain the party of Government. His giant smile on hearing his victory being announced was perhaps the most enduring image of that election. I don't think many - if any - within Parliament had a bad word to say about him as a person. Many disagreed with his politics, and indeed many thought that some of his political opinions were reprehensible and immoral. But on other matters, he was a frequent cross-party-consensus politician. He was known as an honest, passionate and considerate person, as far as I'm (anecdotally) aware.

15th October 2021, 09:11 AM	#12
LondonJohn Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19,940	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Yes, thanks. Google was not being helpful with that. This was his tweet in which he advertised today's surgery - the one in which he was stabbed to death...... https://twitter.com/amessd_southend/...76799531212800

15th October 2021, 12:03 PM	#13
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by LondonJohn He'd been an MP for over four decades. He'd held junior government positions in the early 90s, but was primarily a passionate backbencher MP. When he entered Parliament as an MP in the 80s, he was seen - on account of his fairly flamboyant presentation, his accent, and the fact that he represented the archetypal working-class-Tory constituency of Basildon - as the epitome of "Essex Man" Thatcherism. He was also notable in the 1992 General Election for holding his seat when all the predictions were that he'd lose it: his survival in the seat, because his result was one of the early announcements on election night, was seen as a bellwether for the Conservatives to upset the odds and remain the party of Government. His giant smile on hearing his victory being announced was perhaps the most enduring image of that election. I don't think many - if any - within Parliament had a bad word to say about him as a person. Many disagreed with his politics, and indeed many thought that some of his political opinions were reprehensible and immoral. But on other matters, he was a frequent cross-party-consensus politician. He was known as an honest, passionate and considerate person, as far as I'm (anecdotally) aware. Thank you for the details. Very sad situation.

15th October 2021, 03:05 PM	#14
Agatha Winking at the Moon Administrator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 15,903	Like LondonJohn, I disagreed with the majority of his political and social opinions. I deplore his murder and this attack on our democracy. I've attended my local MP's surgery on a couple of occasions, and these sessions are vital to connect MPs with their constituents. I hope this incident doesn't provoke a knee-jerk ban on MP surgeries, though it should probably lead to some consideration about security.
	__________________ Why can't you be more like Agatha? - Loss Leader

15th October 2021, 03:44 PM	#15
Graham2001 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,640	Here is the commentary from the people at Spiked, who can't resist mentioning that one previous (non-fatal) attack at an MP Surgery involved an Islamic extremist who happened to be female. Quote: David Amess, Conservative MP for Southend West, has been stabbed to death at his constituency surgery at a church in Leigh-on-Sea. We can’t help but reach for the usual clichés at a time like this, but none provides much comfort in the face of such horror and tragedy. At the time of writing we know nothing about Amess’s alleged murderer, other than police arrested a 25-year-old man at the scene. They recovered a knife and aren’t looking for anyone else in connection with the incident. https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/1...p-david-amess/
	__________________ "I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!" 'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...

15th October 2021, 03:47 PM	#16
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 43,373	Liberal Democrat MP Nigel Jones was attacked and his aide killed at a surgerys by a man with a samurai sword in 2000 Quote: An MP's assistant was stabbed to death yesterday as he tried to protect the Liberal Democrat MP Nigel Jones from an attacker who stormed his constituency office in Cheltenham armed with a sword. Andy Pennington, Mr Jones' personal aide and a member of Gloucestershire county council's education committee, died from multiple stab wounds when the man burst into the office at 4.30pm yesterday. Mr Jones, 51, who was conducting his weekly constituency surgery, received lacerations to his hands and arms after fending off blows from the swordsman. He was being treated at Cheltenham general hospital last night. Mr Jones raised the alarm after staggering bloodied and stunned from the office in St George's Street. An armed-response unit attended the scene. The attacker, believed to be a local man known to police, had walked from the office still holding the sword, and was arrested further up the street outside a branch of Littlewoods department store. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...politicalnews1
	Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 15th October 2021 at 03:48 PM.

15th October 2021, 03:47 PM	#17
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 21,517	I'll just leave this here. https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10...end_west/votes
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 21,517	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

15th October 2021, 04:46 PM	#18
p0lka Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: near trees, houses and a lake. Posts: 3,025	In spite of their position on the death penalty, I wish they were still around to argue about it. rip.

15th October 2021, 05:06 PM	#19
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 52,559	Interestingly the killing is being reported in Australia as happening in a church rather than a constituency surgery. What on earth is a constituency surgery anyway?
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

15th October 2021, 05:21 PM	#20
gypsyjackson Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,622	Originally Posted by lionking Interestingly the killing is being reported in Australia as happening in a church rather than a constituency surgery. What on earth is a constituency surgery anyway? LondonJohn explained in more depth earlier, but it’s basically where the MP allows people in his/her constituency to come in to raise concerns. Usually it’s split into an appointment based session and a drop-in session, but that depends on the MP. Sometimes they host in their offices, other times at buildings in the community. This surgery was in a church - I haven’t checked whether Amess ran them there a lot, but in my last constituency in the UK (in Croydon) my MP Sarah Jones ran a surgery in the Methodist church two doors down from me occasionally.

15th October 2021, 05:24 PM	#21
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 52,559	Originally Posted by gypsyjackson LondonJohn explained in more depth earlier, but it’s basically where the MP allows people in his/her constituency to come in to raise concerns. Usually it’s split into an appointment based session and a drop-in session, but that depends on the MP. Sometimes they host in their offices, other times at buildings in the community. This surgery was in a church - I haven’t checked whether Amess ran them there a lot, but in my last constituency in the UK (in Croydon) my MP Sarah Jones ran a surgery in the Methodist church two doors down from me occasionally. Thanks.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

15th October 2021, 05:30 PM	#22
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 43,373	Our MP has a rented shop off the main market place. It is also his constituency office.

15th October 2021, 05:31 PM	#23
gypsyjackson Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,622	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Liberal Democrat MP Nigel Jones was attacked and his aide killed at a surgerys by a man with a samurai sword in 2000 https://www.theguardian.com/politics...politicalnews1 And Stephen Timms was attacked in ~~the mid-2000s~~ 2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_of_Stephen_Timms The attack on Amess has been described as a terrorist incident by the police now: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58935372
	Last edited by gypsyjackson; 15th October 2021 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Found date and reference

15th October 2021, 05:38 PM	#24
gypsyjackson Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,622	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Our MP has a rented shop off the main market place. It is also his constituency office. In Cambridgeshire, a number of Tory MPs share a constituency office in Hardwick, presumably to save money. I guess they need to rent venues for surgeries, and changing venues means you can hold them closer to more people over time.

15th October 2021, 05:38 PM	#25
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 43,373	Originally Posted by gypsyjackson And Stephen Timms was attacked in ~~the mid-2000s~~ 2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_of_Stephen_Timms The attack on Amess has been described as a terrorist incident by the police now: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58935372 Yes, I forgot about Timms.

15th October 2021, 05:44 PM	#26
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 33,744	Quote: The killing of Conservative MP Sir David Amess has been declared a terrorist incident by police. Sir David was stabbed multiple times at a constituency surgery in Leigh-on-Sea in Essex on Friday. The Metropolitan Police said there was "a potential motivation linked to Islamist extremism". Link
	__________________ Слава Україні! **** Putin!

15th October 2021, 06:00 PM	#27
MarkCorrigan ¡No pasarán! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Слава Україні Posts: 11,389	Jesus. I almost never agreed with the man but this is appalling. I wish his family well. This must be heart-breaking for them.
	__________________ Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data. It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz When I give food to the poor, they call me a Saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist. - Hélder Câmara

15th October 2021, 06:02 PM	#28
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 33,744	Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan Jesus. I almost never agreed with the man but this is appalling. I wish his family well. This must be heart-breaking for them. I agree. I don't need to see what his views are on various issues, because regardless of what they are, this is a despicable act.
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16th October 2021, 03:09 AM	#29
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by LondonJohn Oh bloody hell. Yes, it has to be him - nobody else was reported as having been injured. I met him three times at Prostate Cancer UK events at which we were both working. And while I didn't care for some of his politics (something that's irrelevant right now in any case), he seemed like the most thoughtful, gentle, bright and generous person. The way he worked with members of the public when I was around him had the genuine air of him caring about them and their issues - it never ever seemed to me like he was just going through the motions for political (or other) reasons. And to me, this makes the manner of his death - during a well-publicised MP's surgery* - all the more poignant to me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if after this tragedy, on top of the Jo Cox murder in 2016, it becomes mandatory to have at least one police officer present at all MPs' surgeries. That would be a very good move too, IMO: the cost and the impact on the workings of democracy would be more than offset by the reduction in the threat. * For those who might be unaware, in the UK an MP's surgery is where the MP appears at a certain location in his/her constituency for constituents to drop in (either by appointment or on a walk-in basis) with problems that they'd like the MP to try to help out with. In the UK, they usually take place on a Friday, because the House of Commons doesn't usually sit on Fridays. Problem is, Jo Cox was murdered on the way to the surgery.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

16th October 2021, 03:15 AM	#30
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	I see it is being reported the 'suspect' is a 'British national of Somali heritage'. Ugh. 'Heritage' - pet hate word. What does it mean? Is he a protected Somali building or land, or maybe it is a hint to the Lawrence Foxes of the world to get all triggered. Or maybe it is a reference to him being <whisper it> a Muslim.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

16th October 2021, 03:27 AM	#31
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by Vixen I see it is being reported the 'suspect' is a 'British national of Somali heritage'. Ugh. 'Heritage' - pet hate word. What does it mean? Is he a protected Somali building or land, or maybe it is a hint to the Lawrence Foxes of the world to get all triggered. Or maybe it is a reference to him being <whisper it> a Muslim. Well, if he is a Muslim extremist, they definitely should keep that a secret.

16th October 2021, 03:34 AM	#32
RolandRat Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Essex UK Posts: 1,569	Originally Posted by Warp12 I don't follow politics in the UK. Can you provide some context as to how significant this individual was? Popular, well-known, hated, loved? I couldn't stand the guy. I met him and thought he was a slimy weasel.

16th October 2021, 04:22 AM	#33
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,908	Originally Posted by Vixen Problem is, Jo Cox was murdered on the way to the surgery. The problem is that we don’t have a crystal ball that works or a time machine!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

16th October 2021, 04:28 AM	#34
Hercules Rockefeller Woof! Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 3,974	What a mess. That comment was bad and I should feel bad.
	__________________ Quantum physics means that anything can happen at anytime and for no reason. Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war! - Deepak Chopra Last edited by Hercules Rockefeller; 16th October 2021 at 04:32 AM.

16th October 2021, 04:44 AM	#35
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 21,517	Originally Posted by LondonJohn Oh bloody hell. Yes, it has to be him - nobody else was reported as having been injured. I met him three times at Prostate Cancer UK events at which we were both working. And while I didn't care for some of his politics (something that's irrelevant right now in any case), he seemed like the most thoughtful, gentle, bright and generous person. His voting record would indicate otherwise. What's happened is horrific and nobody should end that way, but the impression I'm getting of the man was that he was very good at PR.
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 21,517	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]