IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Coronavirus , Coronavirus conspiracies , diseases , medical conspiracies

Reply
Old 17th December 2021, 06:40 AM   #1
AcesHigh
Muse
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 557
Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories Part IV

I still can´t believe there are people here saying the pandemic is fake and the deaths by Covid are overblown by this or that reason, and most people who died from Covid died from something else.

I already posted graphs showing Excess Deaths curves closely match official COVID death statistics, but in the US and Brazil, the two countries with most official deaths in the world.


Mod InfoThread continued from here. You can quote or respond to any post from that or earlier parts.
Posted By:zooterkin

Last edited by zooterkin; 18th December 2021 at 02:09 PM.
AcesHigh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 07:08 AM   #2
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
I still can´t believe there are people here saying the pandemic is fake and the deaths by Covid are overblown by this or that reason, and most people who died from Covid died from something else.

I already posted graphs showing Excess Deaths curves closely match official COVID death statistics, but in the US and Brazil, the two countries with most official deaths in the world.
Are you really saying you don't believe that there are stupid people on this planet? You have a lot to learn, my friend.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 07:22 AM   #3
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
 
Chris_Halkides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,382
excess death statistics

Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
I still can´t believe there are people here saying the pandemic is fake and the deaths by Covid are overblown by this or that reason, and most people who died from Covid died from something else.

I already posted graphs showing Excess Deaths curves closely match official COVID death statistics, but in the US and Brazil, the two countries with most official deaths in the world.
Agreed. When I first saw such curves in The Economist magazine last year, it was a eureka moment for me. They showed graphs for many nations. This link might be behind a paywall.
__________________
It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz)

Last edited by Chris_Halkides; 17th December 2021 at 07:27 AM.
Chris_Halkides is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 07:50 AM   #4
AcesHigh
Muse
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 557
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Are you really saying you don't believe that there are stupid people on this planet? You have a lot to learn, my friend.
on the planet, yes. But I thought on this forum, or more specifically, on this THREAD, where the graphs were shown, it would be in the past, and other arguments would be used.
AcesHigh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 08:11 AM   #5
W.D.Clinger
Illuminator
 
W.D.Clinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,160
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If I said "all dead" and someone is still alive, that would be embarrassing.
You could say you and they only appear to be alive, but are actually survivor-sims.

That would be jaw-droppingly stupid, but would not be unprecedentedly jaw-dropping stupid.

Alex Jones continues to be mentioned within this thread as source or precedent for jaw-droppingly stupid stuff.

Last edited by W.D.Clinger; 17th December 2021 at 08:28 AM. Reason: added spoiler
W.D.Clinger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 09:05 AM   #6
Cat Not Included
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If I said "all dead" and someone is still alive, that would be embarrassing.
And if you're right you don't even get to gloat about it, so it's really a lose all around.
Cat Not Included is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 09:47 AM   #7
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 23,604
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
I still can´t believe there are people here saying the pandemic is fake and the deaths by Covid are overblown by this or that reason, and most people who died from Covid died from something else.

I already posted graphs showing Excess Deaths curves closely match official COVID death statistics, but in the US and Brazil, the two countries with most official deaths in the world.
Indeed, and in Russia, so beloved of Childlike Empress, you can see that Excess Deaths are well above official Covid tallies.

Which is on-brand for Putin's Russia. Hide the data, but in such an inept way, it's obvious.


See also Peru, which didn't hide its data




https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...ountry=PER~RUS

ETA: yes that's officially about 0.2% of the population killed in Russia, with more than 0.6% excess deaths
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

Last edited by jimbob; 17th December 2021 at 09:49 AM.
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 10:07 AM   #8
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
on the planet, yes. But I thought on this forum, or more specifically, on this THREAD, where the graphs were shown, it would be in the past, and other arguments would be used.
Intelligence is not a prerequisite for forum membership.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 10:11 AM   #9
Cat Not Included
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It's that this "pandemic" is obviously fake and orchestrated from the get-go, and these "vaccines" come with a clear agenda you can read openly in the culprit's writings that has nothing to do with a care for health. Your denial of that is juvenial and has to do with a refusal to go against the "common wisdom".
OK, so I'm sure this has been explained somewhere in the many preceding pages, but since I haven't been following along...since the pandemic is fake, what's actually happening to the people getting sick? Like, when my brother lost his sense of smell and taste for a month, or my neighbor spent a while on the hospital and is now having to use regular oxygen for probably the rest of this life, what actually happened to make them sick? Are there secret ninja 'fake disease' teams running around the world spraying people's food with exotic poisons to simulate the spread of the non-existent disease?
Cat Not Included is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 11:45 AM   #10
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,791
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
on the planet, yes. But I thought on this forum, or more specifically, on this THREAD, where the graphs were shown, it would be in the past, and other arguments would be used.
You right thinking dreamer, this is the conspiracy sub-forum and madness prevails!
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 11:48 AM   #11
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,791
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Even smart people are not psychic, there's no way to know how the virus will evolve.

If it produces no new virulent variants that evade the vaccines the world should return to something approaching normal, though there will probably be a new annual vaccine administered alongside the flu one.

If it does produce at least one new virulent variant that evades the vaccines next year will probably be much like the last two.

At the moment we don't even know whether omicron is sufficiently virulent/vaccine evading to qualify.
Hey well said and full of wisdom and close to my own prediction - BUT this is the eccentric and irrelevant conspiracy sub-forum, let the speculation sans evidence flow!
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 12:05 PM   #12
MarkCorrigan
¡No pasarán!
 
MarkCorrigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Middle of nowhere, UK
Posts: 10,847
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
btw, folks, ever met the husband of EU Commission president Ursula von der Leyen? Their marriage connected two ancient, noble textile producing families. Heiko von der Leyen is Medical Director of OrGenesis, which provides the "gene therapy" platform for both BioNcash/Pfizer and Moderna.
I'm so happy I get to break this out again.

__________________
Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data.
It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz

When I give food to the poor they call me a saint, when I ask why the poor have no food they call me a communist - Hélder Câmara
MarkCorrigan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 01:35 PM   #13
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
 
Chris_Halkides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,382
a picture is worth a thousand words

Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
I still can´t believe there are people here saying the pandemic is fake and the deaths by Covid are overblown by this or that reason, and most people who died from Covid died from something else.

I already posted graphs showing Excess Deaths curves closely match official COVID death statistics, but in the US and Brazil, the two countries with most official deaths in the world.
AcesHigh,

I found a comment from you where you mentioned a glitch with your image host, but I did not find your comment in which you posted them. I see that JimBob (comment #3513 posted them, however.
__________________
It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz)
Chris_Halkides is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 01:59 PM   #14
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 4,524
Originally Posted by Cat Not Included View Post
OK, so I'm sure this has been explained somewhere in the many preceding pages, but since I haven't been following along...since the pandemic is fake, what's actually happening to the people getting sick? Like, when my brother lost his sense of smell and taste for a month, or my neighbor spent a while on the hospital and is now having to use regular oxygen for probably the rest of this life, what actually happened to make them sick? Are there secret ninja 'fake disease' teams running around the world spraying people's food with exotic poisons to simulate the spread of the non-existent disease?
Conspiracists distrust "official" sources, so they simply dismiss all news, science, and reality. The exception is when they cherry pick or misrepresent these sources to support their wrong conclusions. It's like a game they play in their own heads to decide between stupidity and dishonesty.

This leaves us where we are now -- face to face with propagandists, scammers, or suckers who either don't care or don't know what's real.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

Last edited by eerok; 17th December 2021 at 02:02 PM.
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 02:55 PM   #15
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 30,662
Originally Posted by Cat Not Included View Post
OK, so I'm sure this has been explained somewhere in the many preceding pages, but since I haven't been following along...since the pandemic is fake, what's actually happening to the people getting sick? Like, when my brother lost his sense of smell and taste for a month, or my neighbor spent a while on the hospital and is now having to use regular oxygen for probably the rest of this life, what actually happened to make them sick? Are there secret ninja 'fake disease' teams running around the world spraying people's food with exotic poisons to simulate the spread of the non-existent disease?
You probably think your last suggestion is crazy, but you could likely put it on Facebook and in a week right wing politicians would be citing it as a new fact.

I just saw a reference to a post to one of those social media site suggesting that the vaccine contains "dead people DNA" and that it might turn our DNA into theirs, whereupon our souls would be in danger.

It seems when the cold front of stupidity meets the hot front of lunacy we get the perfect storm of anti-vax ranting. Brace yourself. It's going to be a long winter.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th December 2021, 09:23 PM   #16
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 30,662
Speaking of totally unhinged....

"Jake West was a seemingly healthy 17-year-old when he collapsed during high school football practice in Indiana and died of sudden cardiac arrest. A video widely shared online falsely suggests COVID-19 vaccination is to blame, weaving headlines about him into a rapid-fire compilation of news coverage about athletes collapsing.

The vaccine played no role in West’s death — he died from an undiagnosed heart condition in 2013, seven years before the pandemic began. "

https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...ab67a814e344f4
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 02:44 AM   #17
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 4,974
Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Conspiracists distrust "official" sources, so they simply dismiss all news, science, and reality. The exception is when they cherry pick or misrepresent these sources to support their wrong conclusions. It's like a game they play in their own heads to decide between stupidity and dishonesty.

This leaves us where we are now -- face to face with propagandists, scammers, or suckers who either don't care or don't know what's real.
There have been several recorded cases of conspiracy theorists admitted to hospital with Covid, insisting literally to their dying breaths that they don't have Covid, they can't have Covid, because it doesn't exist, and demanding the doctors tell them what's really wrong with them.
Add to that the idea of 'vicsims' and 'crisis actors', which enables all specific cases to be handwaved away.
I have also been told that all tests for Covid are completely inaccurate, and so, for example, you can test positive if you have hayfever.
Lastly, let's not forget that, in their eyes, all the doctors and nurses are in on it, and so any diagnosis is instantly suspect.
It's essentially an elaborate means of denying reality, even if that reality is literally killing you.
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 03:04 AM   #18
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 4,974
Fenton and Neil Vaccine Study

Apologies if this has been discussed before- if I missed that, then do please link me to the right place.
I'm also placing this in CTs, rather than science, as I think it is more suitable here. Again, I'm happy to have it moved if that's what is determined.
There's this study by Norman Fenton about vaccines, in which he claims that, due to inaccurate and incomplete data recording in the UK, an incorrect picture of vaccine efficacy is being painted. He says, basically, that there's no essential difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated people in terms of hospitalisations and deaths. This is being taken as meaning that the vaccination programme should be halted.
There's a fair amount of maths and sciency stuff in here, which is beyond my own ability to understand and critique. I was wondering if anyone else here had seen this, and could give some input on it?
I note that it does not yet appear to have been peer reviewed, so I can't find any reports in the web about it.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...an_do_about_it
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 07:40 AM   #19
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
Originally Posted by Cat Not Included View Post
OK, so I'm sure this has been explained somewhere in the many preceding pages, but since I haven't been following along...since the pandemic is fake, what's actually happening to the people getting sick? Like, when my brother lost his sense of smell and taste for a month, or my neighbor spent a while on the hospital and is now having to use regular oxygen for probably the rest of this life, what actually happened to make them sick? Are there secret ninja 'fake disease' teams running around the world spraying people's food with exotic poisons to simulate the spread of the non-existent disease?

It's a mixture of re-labeling of the common flu and the results of constant, ruthless fear-mongering since almost two years. The latter has psychosomatic effects.
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 08:01 AM   #20
GraculusTheGreenBird
Critical Thinker
 
GraculusTheGreenBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It's a mixture of re-labeling of the common flu and the results of constant, ruthless fear-mongering since almost two years. The latter has psychosomatic effects.
You are deranged.
GraculusTheGreenBird is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 08:05 AM   #21
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It's a mixture of re-labeling of the common flu and the results of constant, ruthless fear-mongering since almost two years. The latter has psychosomatic effects.
The "government is out to get you" fear mongering that you and your ilk are so vested in has been going on for a lot longer than 2 years. A little introspective application of the psychosomatic effects of your own fears could be beneficial.

Oh yeah, and this post I quoted is complete bs. And you know it.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 08:12 AM   #22
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 7,168
Look, everybody! I'm finally growing up!

Originally Posted by GraculusTheGreenBird View Post
You are deranged.
Surely not that bad? Let's just say psychosomatic.
__________________
If you would learn a man's character, give him authority.

If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 08:52 AM   #23
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
The "government is out to get you" fear mongering that you and your ilk are so vested in has been going on for a lot longer than 2 years. A little introspective application of the psychosomatic effects of your own fears could be beneficial.

There is no such thing as "the government". Surface clowns like the totally deranged "leaders" in "western" countries, like Joe Biden, Boris Johnson, Olaf Scholz, Mario Draghi, the miserable little wanna-be dictators in you happy police state colony, are not calling the shots. And you know it.™.
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 08:58 AM   #24
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 4,974
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It's a mixture of re-labeling of the common flu and the results of constant, ruthless fear-mongering since almost two years. The latter has psychosomatic effects.
Actually, most of the fear-mongering is coming from you. You are the only one Kremlin trembling in fear of a global fascist tovarich takeover.
Oh, and I will put in the now oligarchy obligatory request for evidence for your claims.
You will, of course, ignore it, but your constant and consistent refuseniks refusals to support your claims stack up and are noted:
Can psychosomatic effects account for excess deaths around the world, even in countries like Brazil, where the government narrative is that vodka Covid is not dangerous? Does the Internet Research Agency have a handy fact-sheet you can make use of?
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 09:01 AM   #25
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
Vienna exploding today again. Hamburg right now, directly challenging the ultra-corrupt "mayor" Tschetschner, side-kick of the previous mayor and now-"Bundeskanzler" Olaf Scholz.
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 09:18 AM   #26
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 24,734
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
There is no such thing as "the government". Surface clowns like the totally deranged "leaders" in "western" countries, like Joe Biden, Boris Johnson, Olaf Scholz, Mario Draghi, the miserable little wanna-be dictators in you happy police state colony, are not calling the shots. And you know it.™.
I'll take Joe Biden over scum like Putin any day.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 09:18 AM   #27
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 19,240
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
There is no such thing as "the government". Surface clowns like the totally deranged "leaders" in "western" countries, like Joe Biden, Boris Johnson, Olaf Scholz, Mario Draghi, the miserable little wanna-be dictators in you happy police state colony, are not calling the shots. And you know it.™.
Right. It's the shape-shifting reptilian aliens that David Icke warned you about.

There's also no such thing as "medical science". Those millions of professionals world-wide telling us about the risks of COVID-19 and how best to mitigate the dangers are all just crisis actors following orders from the ulra-organized, virtually omniscient Jewish/reptile families that control everything.

And those millions of COVID-19 "deaths" were all just more shape-shifting alien reptiles giving really convincing performances, then returning to their own dimension. And their "families"? More crisis actors.

Truly, only the smartest person we've ever encountered could see such a fiendishly brilliant plot, cleverly disguised to appear as a ******* moronic, self-aggrandizing delusion to those of mere average intelligence.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.

Last edited by Foster Zygote; 18th December 2021 at 09:23 AM.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 10:34 AM   #28
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,701
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It's a mixture of re-labeling of the common flu and the results of constant, ruthless fear-mongering since almost two years. The latter has psychosomatic effects.
I am disappointed that the smartest person anyone is ever likely to encounter posted something so stupid.
__________________
“One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late.”

Dr. Brytney Cobia

Last edited by Resume; 18th December 2021 at 10:35 AM.
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 10:40 AM   #29
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 4,524
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
There have been several recorded cases of conspiracy theorists admitted to hospital with Covid, insisting literally to their dying breaths that they don't have Covid, they can't have Covid, because it doesn't exist, and demanding the doctors tell them what's really wrong with them.
Add to that the idea of 'vicsims' and 'crisis actors', which enables all specific cases to be handwaved away.
I have also been told that all tests for Covid are completely inaccurate, and so, for example, you can test positive if you have hayfever.
Lastly, let's not forget that, in their eyes, all the doctors and nurses are in on it, and so any diagnosis is instantly suspect.
It's essentially an elaborate means of denying reality, even if that reality is literally killing you.
This is a good example of the suckers -- those who actually believe the FUD and disinfo they're being spoonfed, but it gets a lot worse. It's no secret that Russia is actively spreading disinfo to undermine the West. Between them and the scammers who will stoop to cash in on death and suffering, I think no amount of condemnation and contempt is enough, and that's why I'll never be quiet about this.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 10:43 AM   #30
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 7,168
Vienna assplodes!

Gigantic eructations in Australian capital! Tens of thousands! Streets impossible! Kafe! Klatsch! Torte!

Yeah, well. Has the MSM covered it? Are you seeing it on your feed? Your TV? Turn on your radio (how quaint!) and try if you can hear about it! Nothing, right?

That proves it! The absence of evidence is conclusive! If they wanted you simpletons to hear anything -- oh, you would, you WOULD!

I looked at a deutsch live channel from that other town CE (PBUHim) told about. Cops everywhere! Hardly a civvie in sight! All behind barb wire by now, you can be sure!

Me & CE are sure.
__________________
If you would learn a man's character, give him authority.

If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 11:10 AM   #31
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 30,662
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It's a mixture of re-labeling of the common flu and the results of constant, ruthless fear-mongering since almost two years. The latter has psychosomatic effects.
Where I live, at least, the death rate has climbed by quite a bit, and the infection rate by more than quite a bit, while statistics for flu, long kept, have remained in effect. So even if you were right that Covid is a hoax and really just flu, it would be woefully inaccurate to call it "common flu," since it clearly is a much greater killer than the common flu has been for a very long time. I think you're entirely wrong, but even if you were not, you'd be very wrong indeed to call this "common."

As for the idea of a psychosomatic effect, aside from there being no evidence that it exists, it ought to be fairly obvious that the people most afraid of Covid are the ones who get vaccinated, mask, and isolate, and that a preponderant number of those who get it and die are those who are not afraid of it. The press abounds with people who deny to their last dying breath that it exists, so how can the psychosomatic effect be the same for people who deny it as for people who acknowledge it? It's an equal-opportunity killer.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 11:41 AM   #32
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
There is no such thing as "the government". Surface clowns like the totally deranged "leaders" in "western" countries, like Joe Biden, Boris Johnson, Olaf Scholz, Mario Draghi, the miserable little wanna-be dictators in you happy police state colony, are not calling the shots. And you know it.™.
Well it seems you already worship a fully deranged dictator running a police state and calling the shots. No wanna-be required. And indeed no government worthy of the name.

Now, about that introspective look at your own psychosomatic reaction following the many years of your own abject fear of western democracy that almost literally jumps out of this post.....
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 11:45 AM   #33
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Vienna exploding today again. Hamburg right now, directly challenging the ultra-corrupt "mayor" Tschetschner, side-kick of the previous mayor and now-"Bundeskanzler" Olaf Scholz.
Funny post, in a pathetic sort of way. But also quite sad that you actually seem to expect people to take your posts seriously.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 11:49 AM   #34
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Where I live, at least, the death rate has climbed by quite a bit, and the infection rate by more than quite a bit, while statistics for flu, long kept, have remained in effect. So even if you were right that Covid is a hoax and really just flu, it would be woefully inaccurate to call it "common flu," since it clearly is a much greater killer than the common flu has been for a very long time. I think you're entirely wrong, but even if you were not, you'd be very wrong indeed to call this "common."

Where I live, death rates are down and "infection" rates are up - due to excessive "testing" with the moronic PCR-Test by Dr. Osten. Statistics for flu have shown an over 95% decline in 2020. No excess mortatility at all for 2020. Excess mortality has started since the "vaccination" campaign and is now a real thing.

Originally Posted by bruto View Post
As for the idea of a psychosomatic effect, aside from there being no evidence that it exists, it ought to be fairly obvious that the people most afraid of Covid are the ones who get vaccinated, mask, and isolate, and that a preponderant number of those who get it and die are those who are not afraid of it. The press abounds with people who deny to their last dying breath that it exists, so how can the psychosomatic effect be the same for people who deny it as for people who acknowledge it? It's an equal-opportunity killer.

Going back to that crooked "mayor" of Hamburg, it has just srfaced that his claim that over 90% of "COVID"-patients in intensive care units are "unvaccinated" was completely false. Fact is that over 60% of patients had an "unknown" vaccination status (if you can believe that), and all of them were automatically counted as "unvaccinated". Updated numbers say that around 14% of the "COVID"-patiens in ICUs were "unvaccinated". Which is below the actual number of "unvaccinated" in Germany. Certainly one reason for the huge masses protesting today in Hamburg.

A similar "scandal" happened in Bavaria and I'm sure in other places of the world. The whole idiocy of "the pandemic of the unvaccinated" has been debunked. That's why they now come up with the "moronic" variant. Notice that all those slogans are handed top-down and are parroted in several languages in the relevant countries.
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 18th December 2021 at 11:54 AM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 12:21 PM   #35
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 23,604
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Apologies if this has been discussed before- if I missed that, then do please link me to the right place.
I'm also placing this in CTs, rather than science, as I think it is more suitable here. Again, I'm happy to have it moved if that's what is determined.
There's this study by Norman Fenton about vaccines, in which he claims that, due to inaccurate and incomplete data recording in the UK, an incorrect picture of vaccine efficacy is being painted. He says, basically, that there's no essential difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated people in terms of hospitalisations and deaths. This is being taken as meaning that the vaccination programme should be halted.
There's a fair amount of maths and sciency stuff in here, which is beyond my own ability to understand and critique. I was wondering if anyone else here had seen this, and could give some input on it?
I note that it does not yet appear to have been peer reviewed, so I can't find any reports in the web about it.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...an_do_about_it

This is my phase plot of hospital admissions vs cases (by specimen date) and both against time from Sept 2020 to Dec 15th 2021 for London.



After a long time bumping along in the third wave, things are starting to take off again.

ETA: You can see how vaccination has made the third wave less dangerous per case than the second
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 12:48 PM   #36
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,059
Of course, Germany had lots and lots of excess deaths in 2020 and 2021. It was more than 25% over the expected number of deaths per week during this time last year, and we are seeing the same pattern again to end 2021 - over 25% excess deaths per week. The weekly expected death numbers were greater than 0 almost every week since Spring of 2020.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...deaths-tracker
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 01:25 PM   #37
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Of course, Germany had lots and lots of excess deaths in 2020 and 2021. It was more than 25% over the expected number of deaths per week during this time last year, and we are seeing the same pattern again to end 2021 - over 25% excess deaths per week. The weekly expected death numbers were greater than 0 almost every week since Spring of 2020.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...deaths-tracker


Complete bollocks you parrot from the controlled media you consume/google. No excess mortatility in 2020 in Germany if you do proper statistics (with the official data). You have to adjust for population growth and aging of society etc. Learn something carlitos:

https://bittel.tv/wp-content/uploads...29.09.2021.pdf
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 18th December 2021 at 01:26 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 01:34 PM   #38
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,667
Wasn't it Churchill who said "never trust a statistic you haven't forged yourself?".

The official data comes from the RKI, allegedly known as "Robert Koch Institute", but for extremely bright people like myself better known as the "Ruthless Kartel Institute". Although the basic work is professional. It's just that the veterinarian "in charge" of it goes on stage, with the report in his hand, and lies about the data of his own institute. Lothar Wieler is one of the main culprits in the plandemic nonsense on German soil and will end up in prison where he belongs.
__________________
Freimir Kron
waltet schon
unser Sohn
auf dem Thron

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 18th December 2021 at 01:36 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 01:47 PM   #39
Architect
Chief Punkah Wallah
 
Architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 9,754
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Wasn't it Churchill who said "never trust a statistic you haven't forged yourself?".
.



You are correct: it wasn't.
__________________
When the men elected to make laws are but a small part of a foreign parliament, that is when all healthy national feeling dies.

James Keir Hardie (1856 - 1915): Politician, Founder of Scottish Labour Party
Architect is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th December 2021, 01:48 PM   #40
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 23,604
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Complete bollocks you parrot from the controlled media you consume/google. No excess mortatility in 2020 in Germany if you do proper statistics (with the official data). You have to adjust for population growth and aging of society etc. Learn something carlitos:

https://bittel.tv/wp-content/uploads...29.09.2021.pdf
Let's just look at the raw numbers by week.




Germany did well in the first wave but by 2021 it is not the case.

ETA: Germany is also far better than the UK, for example

__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:18 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.