IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Coronavirus , Coronavirus conspiracies , diseases , medical conspiracies

Reply
Old 26th December 2021, 10:31 AM   #361
welshdean
Heb ei fai, heb ei eni
 
welshdean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,992
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
This is exactly my position on the dangers of Covid-19. If the links get broken, I'll edit this post to fix them:

AN ALTERNATE THEORY OF COVID-19 by Tom Palven

It is argued here that the alleged Corona-19 pandemic of Biblical proportions is not the result of a single coronavirus and its mutations, but rather the result of a much more complicated perfect storm or events and consequences.

It is submitted that Covid-19 viruses may gain most of any morbidity they possess not from their inherent lethality, but from mass psychosis and a nocebo effect.

The nocebo effect is the opposite of the placebo effect. If people feel better after being given a pill without active ingredients, that is called a placebo effect.

On the other hand, if a person feels worse after given false news that they are likely to die, that is called a nocebo effect. This apparently can happen with voodoo curses, for example, wherein people might die of heart attacks or accidents due to panic.

Propagandist Joseph Goebbels is alleged to have stated that if you repeated anything often enough, people would begin to believe it, and the narrative of a uniquely (The word "novel" was stressed) virulent covid coronavirus was repeated over and over.

Many acquaintances with compromising factors such as heart disease or diabetes have been scared to the point of being wide-eyed as they discussed the spread of Covid-19.

It would not be surprising if some people experiencing cold symptoms such as coughing and sneezing could be scared enough to begin to hyperventilate and be placed on ventilators.

Another point is that many people on their last legs, dying of colon cancer, congestive heart failure, or whatever, "die today" of diarrhea and dehydration from what doctors and nurses call C. diff (see-diff, Clostridium difficile bacteria), which doesn't often affect doctors and nurses, but mainly people whose immune systems are compromised, or whose "good" bacteria have been killed by antibiotics.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20351691

Do their death certificates say that the cause of death was dehydration, diarrhea, or C. difficile? No, usually the death certificate states the primary cause...except, apparently, in an election year, where novel Coronavirus-19 was listed as the cause of death for people on hospice care in nursing homes. Should we accept without question the coincidence that the Covid hype began right after the major media campaign to impeach and convict Trump over allegations of a Putin connection failed, and that it the covid narrative was not driven by political operatives trying to embarrass and weaken Trump?

FactCheck confirmed that hospitals got a large government bonus when they reported covid as a contributing factor in deaths, whereas they don't for C. diff, although they have removed the article stating that it is now obsolete.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/
If hospitals were paid to report C. diff as a death co-factor, fearmongers could report millions of C. diff deaths and a panic-porn-driven, "if it bleeds, it leads" press could have another field day.

Former Guardian investigative reporter, Kit Knightly (below) and several highly-credentialled statisticians have shown that there have not actually been any "excess deaths' due to Covid-19, so it is argued here that there is no global plague, but instead a global mass movement and mass psychoses related more to political and social sciences than to biological science, a sensationalist press, and a combination of medical-related interests including pharmaceutical giants.
Mass psychogenic illness - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_psychogenic_illness

List of mass hysteria cases - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...hysteria_cases

Groupthink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements (Perennial Classics) - Kindle edition by Hoffer, Eric. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

30 Facts You Need to Know, by Kit Knightly, former Guardian investigative journalist.
30 facts you NEED to know: Your Covid Cribsheet | Principia Scientific Intl. (principia-scientific.com)
You are a liar. You've been shown repeatedly that every point, hyperbolic, USA-centric and CT that you've made above is either a lie, irrelevant or too ridiculous to consider. Yet you peddle this tripe, afresh, in almost every post here.
When will you understand or admit that the lies you tell are killing people.

As I said, you are a liar and you should be downright ashamed of yourself.
__________________
"In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."
Carl Sagan 1934 - 1996 RIP
welshdean is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 10:40 AM   #362
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Embedded and embattled, reporting from Mississippi
Posts: 5,107
Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
You are a liar. You've been shown repeatedly that every point, hyperbolic, USA-centric and CT that you've made above is either a lie, irrelevant or too ridiculous to consider. Yet you peddle this tripe, afresh, in almost every post here.
When will you understand or admit that the lies you tell are killing people.

As I said, you are a liar and you should be downright ashamed of yourself.
For someone who pretends that it's the "Covidists" that are adhering to a religion, Tom sure does have his own Scripture that he's sticking to through thick or thin. Evidently that silly line about "pandemic of Biblical proportions" is just too good a strawman to let go of (among others)- no matter how many times he's told that nobody has ever framed it as such, he keeps returning to it like a fundie to his "Jeeeeeezus saves!"
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 10:46 AM   #363
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 30,661
Wow, I would have thought that after all this foofooraw a person desiring to be taken seriously might at least have edited out from his tired-out screed the reference to Kit the investugative reporter.

The full evaluation of this kind of presentation might breach forum etiquette, but I think it safe to say that it reveals a fatally direspectful dismissal of everyone else's opinion and an obstinate refusal to consider anything new worth learning.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 10:49 AM   #364
Dr.Sid
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 3,584
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Wow, I would have thought that after all this foofooraw a person desiring to be taken seriously might at least have edited out from his tired-out screed the reference to Kit the investugative reporter.

The full evaluation of this kind of presentation might breach forum etiquette, but I think it safe to say that it reveals a fatally direspectful dismissal of everyone else's opinion and an obstinate refusal to consider anything new worth learning.
Those are prerequisites for hoax infection. In other words, no wonder infected people act like that.
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 11:14 AM   #365
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 27,383
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 11:27 AM   #366
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Embedded and embattled, reporting from Mississippi
Posts: 5,107
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Wow, I would have thought that after all this foofooraw a person desiring to be taken seriously might at least have edited out from his tired-out screed the reference to Kit the investugative reporter.

The full evaluation of this kind of presentation might breach forum etiquette, but I think it safe to say that it reveals a fatally direspectful dismissal of everyone else's opinion and an obstinate refusal to consider anything new worth learning.
"Kit the investigative reporter" doesn't even seem really all that necessary to Tom's "theory"- until you realize that it isn't a theory at all, but only a rosary ritual in which all the beads need to be touched for it to be complete and meaningful. In a way, it's because of the foofooraw that it wasn't edited out- that would be like a Catholic editing out the Hail Mary beads from his circuit because Protestants explicitly disagree with that fundamental part of his faith. Someone whose faith is defined by a total ceremony isn't going to be able to omit any part of it.
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

Last edited by turingtest; 26th December 2021 at 11:42 AM. Reason: clarify
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 11:33 AM   #367
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,059
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
My alma mater, Cornell, has made the news by being ridiculous:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/12/...y-100-percent/

And now you have made the thread ridiculous by linking to Lew Rockwell. What next, Lyndon LaRouche?

Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Could it be that the shortages were due to mandatory testing which detected common colds?
:

Unless you have evidence that you have been asked for that COVID 19 tests are reporting positive for the common cold?

As someone wisely suggested:

Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Learn to focus on your message. Please do better.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 11:36 AM   #368
threadworm
Graduate Poster
 
threadworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,748
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'm sensing there's a camel with a whole heap of straws about its person here...
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to.

**************************

Apollo Hoax Debunked
threadworm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 12:30 PM   #369
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,701
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
greatawakening.win for the loss.
__________________
“One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late.”

Dr. Brytney Cobia
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 12:48 PM   #370
Tom Palven
Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 204
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The only person here (and quite possibly on the planet) who has alleged this is you.
"Of Biblical proportions."
https://forward.com/articles/4192/of...l-proportions/
Tom Palven is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 12:54 PM   #371
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 10,636
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
That is one man's opinion of what it may mean in certain contexts. What of it?
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 01:12 PM   #372
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,701
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Yes, and what has this to do with Pixel's post?
__________________
“One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late.”

Dr. Brytney Cobia
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 01:16 PM   #373
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 16,906
biblical proportions - so one iota?
__________________
"Metaphysics is a restaurant where they give you a thirty thousand page menu, and no food."

- Robert M. Pirsig
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 04:25 PM   #374
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 33,072
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
biblical proportions - so one iota?
How many people died in the plagues visited upon Egypt? Thousands? There weren't millions of people there. How long did they last? Pretty soon, everyone would have scooped up the frogs and dined on their legs.
This plague, on the other hand, has killed several million people and impacted the lives of the entire world. It's way beyond biblical.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 04:30 PM   #375
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 13,779
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Still having the truck and paying for the phone to post vaccine denial while losing everything else is so very telling of the antivaxx movement.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 05:51 PM   #376
Fonebone
persona non grata
 
Fonebone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 827
Originally Posted by Architect View Post
You are correct: it wasn't.
"never trust a statistic you haven't forged yourself"
https://www.academia.edu/35145823/Th...?auto=download
Footnote1 [excerpt]
1 Werner Barke,
Ich glaube nur der Statistik... . Was Winston Churchill über Zahlen und Statistik gesagt haben soll – und was er wirklich sagte
(Stuttgart, 2011)
...This anecdote is interesting in two respects, which ultimately make the same point.
Firstly, Churchill apparently never dispensed this advice (he actually regarded statistics highly),
but the quote was devised by the Nazi regime to discredit the British enemy.1[/excerpt}
__________________
Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured;
but, like the sun, only for a time. __Bovee
Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light. __George Washington
All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw
Fonebone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 07:53 PM   #377
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 4,524
I hope this vehicle doesn't belong to anyone in this thread.

Caught this in the wild. Hollywood, CA (reddit.com)

The nuts never stay in the jar.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 08:16 PM   #378
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 4,524
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
[...]
Thanks. I was wondering if you were a crunchy yoga antivaxxer or something more boring, and I see you're the latter.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 09:28 PM   #379
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 4,974
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
It is argued here that the alleged Corona-19 pandemic of Biblical proportions
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The only person here (and quite possibly on the planet) who has alleged this is you.
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Oh, Tom Palven, you do make me laugh! Thanks for that!

If you'd read the article you've obviously hastily Googled, you would have noticed that it makes no mention at all of Covid, and so doesn't support your claim in any way.
You silly billy!
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 10:07 PM   #380
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 19,240
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Oh, Tom Palven, you do make me laugh! Thanks for that!

If you'd read the article you've obviously hastily Googled, you would have noticed that it makes no mention at all of Covid, and so doesn't support your claim in any way.
You silly billy!
For crap's sake, it says "January 21, 2005" right at the top! That article is old enough to drive!

But on the plus side, at least this source isn't antisemitic.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2021, 11:01 PM   #381
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 14,272
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
How many people died in the plagues visited upon Egypt? Thousands? There weren't millions of people there. How long did they last? Pretty soon, everyone would have scooped up the frogs and dined on their legs.
This plague, on the other hand, has killed several million people and impacted the lives of the entire world. It's way beyond biblical.
Pedantry aside everyone understands the generally accepted meaning of the phrase, and I have seen no-one except this poster use it to describe this pandemic. On the contrary, most of the expert commentators I've read have gone out of their way to emphasise how very fortunate we are that a virus so infectious should have such a relatively low fatality rate. It could have been so, so much worse.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

Last edited by Pixel42; 27th December 2021 at 12:15 AM.
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 01:36 AM   #382
Tom Palven
Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 204
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Pedantry aside everyone understands the generally accepted meaning of the phrase, and I have seen no-one except this poster use it to describe this pandemic. On the contrary, most of the expert commentators I've read have gone out of their way to emphasise how very fortunate we are that a virus so infectious should have such a relatively low fatality rate. It could have been so, so much worse.
Yes, we are fortunate that common cold and flu viruses have very low fatality rates and only push people over the edge when they are on their very last legs.

And Big Pharma is fortunate that we are being convinced to vaccinate ourselves against them.
Tom Palven is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 02:01 AM   #383
BazBear
Possible Suspect
 
BazBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Stowe VT USA
Posts: 2,971
Originally Posted by eerok View Post
I hope this vehicle doesn't belong to anyone in this thread.

Caught this in the wild. Hollywood, CA (reddit.com)

The nuts never stay in the jar.
I've seen a few overzealous Jesus-mobiles over the years, but this fun bus takes the Qake.
__________________
I don't see how an article of clothing can be indecent. A person, yes. - Robert A. Heinlein
If Christ died for our sins, dare we make his martyrdom meaningless by not committing them? - Jules Feiffer
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
BazBear is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 02:15 AM   #384
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 14,272
We all know that there's a hell of a big gap between 'no worse than colds or flu' and 'a plague of Biblical proportions', even if some of us are pretending not to.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 02:26 AM   #385
MBDK
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Yes, we are fortunate that common cold and flu viruses have very low fatality rates and only push people over the edge when they are on their very last legs.

And Big Pharma is fortunate that we are being convinced to vaccinate ourselves against them.
What makes you think young children and pregnant women are on their very last legs?

And we are all fortunate that Big Pharma is around to research for us and supply us with the best new medicines available.

EDIT: Added "new" to the last sentence for clarification.

Last edited by MBDK; 27th December 2021 at 02:38 AM.
MBDK is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 02:26 AM   #386
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 20,196
Originally Posted by eerok View Post
I hope this vehicle doesn't belong to anyone in this thread.

Caught this in the wild. Hollywood, CA (reddit.com)

The nuts never stay in the jar.

"There's enough material there for an entire conference."

- Dr. Abbott (the fictional psychiatrist from Fawlty Towers) talking about Basil.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
Those who agree with me may not always be right, but nonetheless, I admire their astuteness.
Cullen Hightower
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 04:09 AM   #387
Tom Palven
Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 204
Originally Posted by MBDK View Post
What makes you think young children and pregnant women are on their very last legs?
If a person is in the last stages of terminal cancer or heart failure and their immune system is shot, a cold or flu virus can lead to pneumonia or C. diff which can be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Children rarely suffer debilitating effects or death from flu viruses, and almost never from coronaviruses.

You show me your linked stats and I'll show you mine from the CDC.
Tom Palven is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 04:16 AM   #388
JesseCuster
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,710
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Why did you link to that article from 2005 which has nothing to do with COVID?
JesseCuster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 04:41 AM   #389
MBDK
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
If a person is in the last stages of terminal cancer or heart failure and their immune system is shot, a cold or flu virus can lead to pneumonia or C. diff which can be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Children rarely suffer debilitating effects or death from flu viruses, and almost never from coronaviruses.

You show me your linked stats and I'll show you mine from the CDC.
You don't remember what you wrote in your immediately previous post? That doesn't reflect well on your cognitive abilities.

Allow me to remind you. You wrote, "and only push people over the edge when they are on their very last legs" (bold mine). Only leaves no room for "rarely". Or does the meaning/use of that simple adverb reside beyond your comprehension?

Since you have historically misconstrued data, I will just provide this applicable referenced quote, the context of which has been common knowledge for decades (at least). From - https://www.verywellhealth.com/deaths-from-flu-2633829

"There are millions of influenza infections in the U.S. each year. The statistics from public health agencies make clear that some of these infections lead to flu-related deaths. These deaths often are caused by pneumonia and other complications. Younger children, older adults, pregnant women, and people with compromised immune systems are at greatest risk."
MBDK is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 05:31 AM   #390
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 14,272
Unvaccinated 60 times more likely to end up in ICU with Covid

Quote:
Figures from the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre (ICNARC), which covers hospital units in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, show that between May and November the rate of admission for double-jabbed Covid sufferers in their 60s was just 0.6 cases per 100,000 people per week.

But among unjabbed people of the same age the rate was 37.3 per 100,000 per week – equating to a relative risk about 60 times higher.

Among those in their 50s and 70s there was almost a 30-fold difference in average weekly admission rates between the vaccinated and the unjabbed.

In younger age groups the difference was lower but unvaccinated people in their 30s and 40s were between 10 and 15 times more likely to end up in intensive care with Covid than those who had been jabbed.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 05:51 AM   #391
Tom Palven
Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 204
Originally Posted by MBDK View Post
You don't remember what you wrote in your immediately previous post? That doesn't reflect well on your cognitive abilities.

Allow me to remind you. You wrote, "and only push people over the edge when they are on their very last legs" (bold mine). Only leaves no room for "rarely". Or does the meaning/use of that simple adverb reside beyond your comprehension?

Since you have historically misconstrued data, I will just provide this applicable referenced quote, the context of which has been common knowledge for decades (at least). From - https://www.verywellhealth.com/deaths-from-flu-2633829

"There are millions of influenza infections in the U.S. each year. The statistics from public health agencies make clear that some of these infections lead to flu-related deaths. These deaths often are caused by pneumonia and other complications. Younger children, older adults, pregnant women, and people with compromised immune systems are at greatest risk."
I agree completely with your link.
Tom Palven is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 06:18 AM   #392
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 15,798
Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
"Kit the investigative reporter" doesn't even seem really all that necessary to Tom's "theory"- until you realize that it isn't a theory at all, but only a rosary ritual in which all the beads need to be touched for it to be complete and meaningful. In a way, it's because of the foofooraw that it wasn't edited out- that would be like a Catholic editing out the Hail Mary beads from his circuit because Protestants explicitly disagree with that fundamental part of his faith. Someone whose faith is defined by a total ceremony isn't going to be able to omit any part of it.
Thanks, this helps me grasp the inexplicable doubling (tripling?) down.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 06:33 AM   #393
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 14,272
Covid 19 and influenza are both respitatory illnesses so you'd expect them to have similarities, e.g. in the demographic groups which are most susceptible to them. It's the differences between them which make Covid 19 a significantly greater threat, justifying extraordinary measures to limit its spread and effects.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 07:13 AM   #394
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 26,335
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
My alma mater, Cornell, has made the news by being ridiculous:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/12/...y-100-percent/
Lee Rockwell? Seriously?
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 07:15 AM   #395
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 4,974
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
I agree completely with your link.
1. That link contradicts your previous post about the risks of flu. Just for the record, do you now accept that your post was wrong?
2. As you agree with what the CDC says in that article, will you now stop posting about how they are lying?
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 07:23 AM   #396
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 26,335
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
This is exactly my position on the dangers of Covid-19. If the links get broken, I'll edit this post to fix them:

AN ALTERNATE THEORY OF COVID-19 by Tom Palven
Drivel.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 07:25 AM   #397
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,059
Originally Posted by eerok View Post
I hope this vehicle doesn't belong to anyone in this thread.

Caught this in the wild. Hollywood, CA (reddit.com)

The nuts never stay in the jar.
Sounds like he's against the use of refrigerator drawers to store DNA - "CRISPER!"
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 07:28 AM   #398
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,059
'tis the season of lies and exaggerations

Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Kit Knightly, a former Guardian investigative reporter

.......

the bio of Knightly is not available at Wikipedia any longer.
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
Could it be that the shortages were due to mandatory testing which detected common colds?
Originally Posted by Tom Palven View Post
It is argued here that the alleged Corona-19 pandemic of Biblical proportions


...


... several highly-credentialled statisticians have shown that there have not actually been any "excess deaths' due to Covid-19
Tom Palven - do your homework, and report back please.

Last edited by carlitos; 27th December 2021 at 09:22 AM. Reason: spelling
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 08:42 AM   #399
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 30,661
Originally Posted by MBDK View Post
You don't remember what you wrote in your immediately previous post? That doesn't reflect well on your cognitive abilities.

Allow me to remind you. You wrote, "and only push people over the edge when they are on their very last legs" (bold mine). Only leaves no room for "rarely". Or does the meaning/use of that simple adverb reside beyond your comprehension?

Since you have historically misconstrued data, I will just provide this applicable referenced quote, the context of which has been common knowledge for decades (at least). From - https://www.verywellhealth.com/deaths-from-flu-2633829

"There are millions of influenza infections in the U.S. each year. The statistics from public health agencies make clear that some of these infections lead to flu-related deaths. These deaths often are caused by pneumonia and other complications. Younger children, older adults, pregnant women, and people with compromised immune systems are at greatest risk."
For some literally virtual truth passes for the real thing.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th December 2021, 08:56 AM   #400
Tom Palven
Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 204
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
1. That link contradicts your previous post about the risks of flu. Just for the record, do you now accept that your post was wrong?
2. As you agree with what the CDC says in that article, will you now stop posting about how they are lying?
Quote where I was wrong.

The CDC has said that the young and pregnant women are at greater risk from flu viruses than cold viruses, including CV-19, and I have taken them at their word on this.
Tom Palven is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:16 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.